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Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:19 AM

Georgia school to bring back paddling

HEPHZIBAH, Ga. (WTHR) – A local school in Georgia is bringing back an old school policy to disciple their students this year.

Georgia School for Innovation and the Classics, a K through 9 charter school, recently sent home consent forms to inform parents of the new corporal policy.

According to NBC affiliate WAGT, the superintendent says they’ve received a little over a hundred forms back, a third of them giving consent to paddle their child.

The form says:

A student will be taken into an office behind closed doors. The student will place their hands on their knees or piece of furniture and will be struck on the buttocks with a paddle.

If parents opt out of paddling, they have to agree to up to five days of suspension.

This type of discipline is still legal in Georgia and 19 other states but it's rare for a school to have a policy for it.

Under the school's policy, parents will be contacted if their child is paddled and the school says they will use a three strike policy so the paddling doesn't happen on the first or second offense.

https://www.wthr.com/article/georgia-school-brings-back-paddling-policy


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Reply Georgia school to bring back paddling (Original post)
Ferrets are Cool Sep 2018 OP
Dorian Gray Sep 2018 #1
Phoenix61 Sep 2018 #2
Hortensis Sep 2018 #3
Ms. Toad Sep 2018 #47
Hortensis Sep 2018 #49
GoCubsGo Sep 2018 #4
Mariana Sep 2018 #22
Different Drummer Sep 2018 #24
Ms. Toad Sep 2018 #48
hunter Sep 2018 #57
pnwmom Sep 2018 #64
hunter Sep 2018 #76
pnwmom Sep 2018 #77
hunter Sep 2018 #78
pnwmom Sep 2018 #80
Ms. Toad Sep 2018 #74
Vinca Sep 2018 #5
obamanut2012 Sep 2018 #12
Blue_true Sep 2018 #41
MarvinGardens Sep 2018 #56
Rhiannon12866 Sep 2018 #6
TreasonousBastard Sep 2018 #10
Rhiannon12866 Sep 2018 #44
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Sep 2018 #54
Guilded Lilly Sep 2018 #7
TEB Sep 2018 #8
greymattermom Sep 2018 #9
obamanut2012 Sep 2018 #11
MarvinGardens Sep 2018 #58
demmiblue Sep 2018 #13
milestogo Sep 2018 #14
Bettie Sep 2018 #18
milestogo Sep 2018 #38
sl8 Sep 2018 #83
milestogo Sep 2018 #91
Trueblue Texan Sep 2018 #15
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2018 #16
Bettie Sep 2018 #17
SkyDancer Sep 2018 #19
Luciferous Sep 2018 #32
SkyDancer Sep 2018 #40
Luciferous Sep 2018 #42
pnwmom Sep 2018 #45
Callmecrazy Sep 2018 #20
pnwmom Sep 2018 #21
kcr Sep 2018 #23
Eliot Rosewater Sep 2018 #52
Ferrets are Cool Sep 2018 #25
LanternWaste Sep 2018 #28
guillaumeb Sep 2018 #30
guillaumeb Sep 2018 #29
BeckyDem Sep 2018 #33
lisby Sep 2018 #34
shanti Sep 2018 #84
Doreen Sep 2018 #35
pnwmom Sep 2018 #43
Doreen Sep 2018 #50
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2018 #60
StarryNite Sep 2018 #81
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2018 #82
pnwmom Sep 2018 #63
pnwmom Sep 2018 #65
Dorian Gray Sep 2018 #46
ProfessorGAC Sep 2018 #55
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2018 #59
LBM20 Sep 2018 #85
shenmue Sep 2018 #26
guillaumeb Sep 2018 #27
Luciferous Sep 2018 #31
dembotoz Sep 2018 #36
pnwmom Sep 2018 #66
dembotoz Sep 2018 #88
d_r Sep 2018 #89
pnwmom Sep 2018 #90
dembotoz Sep 2018 #92
Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2018 #37
DFW Sep 2018 #39
Coventina Sep 2018 #51
pnwmom Sep 2018 #67
Codeine Sep 2018 #53
pnwmom Sep 2018 #68
Codeine Sep 2018 #72
kcr Sep 2018 #75
d_r Sep 2018 #61
SomethingNew Sep 2018 #62
pnwmom Sep 2018 #69
Mariana Sep 2018 #71
Codeine Sep 2018 #73
ecstatic Sep 2018 #70
Orsino Sep 2018 #79
phleshdef Sep 2018 #86
LeftishBrit Sep 2018 #87

Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:21 AM

1. 1/3

of the parents AGREED to THIS? Are you fucking kidding me?

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:24 AM

2. Those would be the ones who voted for

Twitler. Authoritarian types.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:28 AM

3. Yes. But let's note, 2/3 of the parents say NO.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:00 AM

47. 2/3 have not returned consent forms.

There is a difference between saying no, and just not bothering to deal with a form.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #47)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:48 AM

49. You're absolutely right, of course.

I'm reminded of a very conservative friend whose view on corporal punishment was the very common "no one lays a finger on our children but us." I had already returned the form after taking a yellow highlighter to the "NOT" statement I inserted and was there when Judy was called because she hadn't returned the consent. She made sure they understood her position over the phone so coolly, crisply, and extremely definitively that I bet her they used a yellow highlighter at their end also.

Btw, this charter school gets government funds, and I bet this policy gets taken to court, if not here elsewhere. An automatic alternative of 5 days suspension sounds like an attempt to coerce people who simply can't take that time off work. It also harms the children. I don't know the demographics of the school, but I looked up the town -- nearly a third black.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:29 AM

4. And, sadly, the other 2/3 did not remove their kids from the school.

Or, demand that those instituting this policy be fired. The taxpayers seem fine with it,a s well.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:39 PM

22. That 1/3 are probably Christians

who've learned in church and from the Bible that it's Godly and righteous to beat children. Once someone believes that, does it really matter whether they administer the beating or if someone else does it?

Proverbs 13:24 - He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Proverbs 23:13-14 - Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 22:15 - Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 29:15 - The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

Proverbs 20:30 - The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:48 PM

24. "I was paddled in school. Never did me any harm. In fact, it did me some good."

I didn't find the reply title in the article, but I've known people in my life who have made similar remarks.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:04 AM

48. The alternative is a 5-day suspension.

When I taught in a high school that paddled (through the 80s), a lot of kids opted for being hit over a 1-day suspension.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #48)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:20 PM

57. WTF?



What sort of pervert paddles high school students?

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Response to hunter (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:40 PM

64. Lots of teens get paddled, all over the country (mostly the south). Every day.

https://schoolswats.wordpress.com/2018/05/13/1530/

Last March an Arkansas mother posted that her 17 year old son was spanked by his principal for walking out of class to protest gun violence. Her son, along with two other students, were given the choice of getting struck with a wooden paddle or two days of in-school-suspension, and they all chose the first option. This sparked outrage on social media, given that most people do not know that paddling still exists in USA schools.

While corporal punishment is banned at schools in 128 countries, 19 USA states and over 4,000 schools still allow school administrators to assault students with wooden paddles, and the practice is so much more widespread than one may think. Each year tens of thousands American students are given the choice of getting struck with a paddle in lieu of another type of punishment such as detention or in-school-suspension, but there are plenty of schools that do not give students an alternative option to a paddling.

Each year tens of thousands of students are given the choice of taking “licks” or “swats” with a wooden paddle in lieu of detention or another type of punishment, as was the case for this high school student.

Corporal punishment usually consists of three “swats” or “licks” with a wooden paddle but it is not uncommon for schools to give anywhere between 3-10 swats, as stated in these 2018-19 high school student handbooks. Students are usually required to bend over a desk or grab their ankles so the principal or teacher can inflict pain on their backsides with a large piece of wood. Students are frequently left sore in addition to sometimes being bruised and marked afterwards. Often times the paddle “swats” do not happen right away so students sometimes have to wait days for their corporal punishment to be carried out.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #64)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:23 PM

76. I was teaching in the 'eighties and it was emphasized repeatedly to NEVER touch a child.

Not for any reason.

And never be alone with a child.

This was California.

I once got shit for stepping between two fine young men who were beating one another bloody in the hallway. It may have been my first inclination to grab each by the collar and bang their heads together but I refrained, taking a few bruising hits from both before their anger dissipated.

The funniest fight I ever saw was when two guys decided to have at it in my classroom. A big girl in my class, big as in they really should let women play NFL football, leapt out of her seat, grabbed both of them, one in a headlock, and scolded them (translated to polite English), "Mr. (Hunter) don't need your shit in his classroom!"

I think there are disgustingly "traditional" punishment based authoritarian cultures that work by beating the natural curiosity and high spirits out of children.

In my own life I've been entirely oblivious to any sort of punishment. Nobody ever taught me how to accept punishment. Hell, the punishments I've inflicted upon my self are far greater than anyone could inflict on me. You've met people who've cut themselves. I slide down rock faces or jump out of moving cars.

As a high school student if some supposedly responsible adult had swatted my ass I'd have pissed in the gas tank of their car and laughed when it died on the street.

I hold civil society to a higher standard. I'm a responsible adult not because I fear punishment in this life or the next, but because it's the logical thing to do.

When I was a kid whenever I fucked up my parents always explained in excruciating detail why whatever I'd done was wrong. I'd rather have been smacked in the ass.

I've lived a life of hard knocks, but I've never learned anything from that punishment shit.

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Response to hunter (Reply #76)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:28 PM

77. You must have been a joy to raise!



Sliding down rock faces and jumping out of moving cars.



It sounds like you had very wise parents, talking you into (temporary) submission.

I bet you were a good teacher.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #77)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:34 PM

78. My own kids paid it forward and my dear mom laughs whenever I whine to her about it.

When my youngest was in high school I got that dreaded phone call from the police in the middle of the night...

It was a courtesy call they said, I could pick up my son and my car, before the car was impounded and my kid arrested.

Wait, what? Last I knew my kid had done his homework, was sleeping in his bed, and the car was in the driveway.

I got there and my kid was sitting on the curb with the cops, handcuffed, cracking jokes that made the cops laugh, and there were a couple of other parents wakened in the middle of the night glowering at me like it was all my fault as they picked up their own kids.

All were sober, only sin curfew violation and mouthing off to cops, so parental win! It could have been much worse.

I told my mom, seeking sympathy the next day, and she cackled.

Can't blame her. I was her most troubled child who quit high school, got kicked out of college twice, who would vanish from the face of the earth for weeks and months incognito, in the time before cell phones.

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Response to hunter (Reply #78)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:46 PM

80. Well, I'm glad you -- and your long suffering mom -- survived!

We used to laugh telling certain stories about my husband (not sure any involved an actual arrest, but he grew up in a Mayberry kind of place.) But when our son got old enough to listen, we stopped telling those stories -- didn't want to give him any ideas! And of course, he found his own dumb stuff to do.

We all lived through it though.

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Response to hunter (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:31 PM

74. Principals of high schools.

It didn't surprise me a bit that most of the violence in school occurred right outside the door of the one principal who used it on a regular (weekly, or so) basis.

When you get hit, you learn that hitting solves problems.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:32 AM

5. That's astonishing. I had no idea anyone would even think of doing that. It's assault.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:12 AM

12. There are still public school systems which allow it

A few years ago, a male principal paddled a female student whose parents had okayed it. Guess what? The girl had just turned 18. She sued and won -- BECAUSE IT WAS ILLEGAL TO DO IT TO AN ADULT STUDENT. Anything illegal to do to an adult should be illegal to do to a minor. Period.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #12)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 08:18 PM

41. That principal sounds like a pervert.

I would not paddle any child and certainly would not paddle teenage girls. Once a kid is past a certain age, just having a sit down with them works.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:19 PM

56. Really?

"Go to time out!" or "Go to your room!" -- Unlawful Imprisonment.

"Stop misbehaving this instant or we're leaving this restaurant!" -- Kidnapping.

"You lose your phone for a week!" -- Theft, of if the kid resists, Robbery.

"You're grounded and I'm taking your car keys!" -- Grand Theft Auto, Unlawful Imprisonment.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:34 AM

6. I went to a small school in the early grades where there was paddling

But it was in the rural north country and in the early '60s, I still cringe when I remember that, couldn't imagine that happening today.

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:09 AM

10. I was in a small school in NYC in the '60s where they had...

"The Board of education" hanging on the wall "to be applied to the Seat of Learning." Lutheran grade school otherwise pretty good education.

Paddling was rare, and didn't really hurt. Kinda pissed us off that girls were never paddled. And female teachers never did the paddling.

Of course it's wrong, and not done today, but no one ever noticed any horrible long-term effects from it.

(Word was from the Catholic kids in the neighborhood that nuns had a streak of sadism and their paddling did hurt. But maybe they were just bragging.)

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:13 AM

44. I didn't realize it was so prevalent even back then

I'm kinda horrified when I think of it today, it boggles the mind that in this day and age anyone could think of bringing it back.

I only remember it happening in that particular elementary school and I attended several (we moved). This happened in the public elementary school where I attended third grade in Ticonderoga. The school only went up to fourth grade, the fourth grade teacher (middle aged lady - all the teachers were) was also the principal and she did the paddling. I remember she had a ping pong paddle and did the paddling in the boys' cloak room. And you're right, it was a couple of boys who got paddled, not sure if any girls were, but we all knew about it so the threat was always there.

The two boys I knew about were in my third grade class. They really were incorrigible, used to spend their time shooting sharp pieces of lead from the ends of pencils around the room. I remember them being older and they didn't pass third grade that time around, either. I feel sorry for the teacher, I liked her a lot.

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #44)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:26 AM

54. It was used in my junior high school during the sixties.

And it wasn't always done in private. During PE the teacher gave a couple of boys who were messing around in the shower two whacks each--on their bare, wet butts.

I guess it could have been worse--it could have been a male PE teacher who administered the punishment.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:50 AM

7. Bad idea. Period.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:58 AM

8. Unbelievable

This is the DU member formerly known as TEB.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:04 AM

9. So send in the folks who check on families

to check for child abuse in all families who sign this.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:10 AM

11. If it is illegal to do it to an adult, it should be illegal to do it to a minor

This is assault.

It is also assault when parents do it to their own kids, which I know is an unpopular opinion around here. Anyone who thinks you have to spank just needs to watch some Supernanny eps.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:25 PM

58. Most common punishments would be more serious crimes if done to an adult.

Spanking -- Assault and Battery

"Go to time out!" or "Go to your room!" -- Unlawful Imprisonment.

"Stop misbehaving this instant or we're leaving this restaurant!" -- Kidnapping.

"You lose your phone for a week!" -- Theft, of if the kid resists, Robbery.

"You're grounded and I'm taking your car keys!" -- Grand Theft Auto, Unlawful Imprisonment.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:12 AM

13. It is child abuse, period. n/t

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:13 AM

14. Paddling should be a part of every school -

paddling kayaks and canoes.

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Response to milestogo (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 08:07 AM

18. What if there isn't enough water nearby

to do that?

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Response to Bettie (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 04:43 PM

38. Then you take a field trip, as far as necessary.

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Response to milestogo (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:45 PM

83. I guess you didn't see that documentary about canoeing in Georgia.

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Response to sl8 (Reply #83)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 08:54 PM

91. I didn't recognize that at first...

Burt Reynolds in the stern!

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:40 AM

15. What morons. Disgusting.

But I guess when you've not developed your skills with raising children beyond what your mammy and pappy done way back when you still had a tar paper shack, whut dew ya 'spect?

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:59 AM

16. Hitting children is wrong.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 08:06 AM

17. I would never consent to this

children don't need to be hit to enforce discipline all it teaches is that violence or causing physical harm to another is the answer to problems.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 08:57 AM

19. Paddling a 9th grader?

 

Ya I don't think that's going to fly at all and these kids will get in a fist fight with whomever even tries this.

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Response to SkyDancer (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 01:00 PM

32. When my daughter was in high school her boyfriend got paddled for swearing in class- and this was

only a couple of years ago!

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Response to Luciferous (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:31 PM

40. That is seriously messed up

 

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Response to SkyDancer (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 08:39 PM

42. Yeah I thought she was messing with me when she told me about it.

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Response to SkyDancer (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:16 AM

45. How about an 18 year old senior? And the case went to the Supreme Court in 2008

and they gave it the A-OK.

More at #35 below.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:03 PM

20. I think it's a great idea...

When I was in elementary and middle school in the 70's, corporal punishment was permitted in public schools. You know what? We kids were a lot more respectful to our teachers and each other. When a teacher pulled out that paddle and took you into the hall and you heard that crack, everybody straightened right up. The paddle didn't hurt as much as your embarrassment did; and you were likely to get another one when you got home.
We need to stop coddling our children. It's not abuse. It's public shaming. it's discipline of a form that young minds can comprehend.
Paddling in school wasn't common. If a student got paddled, everybody in school talked about it and made sure it didn't happen to them.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:19 PM

21. That's what you think. I went to two schools with different policies during the same time period,

unlike you, who is clearly looking back at your experience of vicarious child abuse with rose colored glasses.

In my first school it was legal, and happened, and as a child who never got into trouble, I was HORRIFIED by the paddle on the wall of the classroom and hated the teacher for using it, no matter how "guilty" the offender was.

In my second school in another state it was not legal. The students there were every bit as well behaved as the kids in the first school where the teachers engaged in abuse.

There is no data at all that shows students are more well-behaved in schools where corporal punishment is legal. In fact, the data shows the opposite -- as borne out in my own experience. There are much better ways to encourage students to behave than by using the threat of brute force.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:42 PM

23. Well, Crazy, it's too bad science doesn't back you up.

It's just your hazy, nostalgia-soaked opinion talking.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/


One of the first large prospective studies (1997, n = 807) controlled for initial levels of child antisocial behaviour and sex, family socioeconomic status and levels of emotional support and cognitive stimulation in the home.11 Even with these controls, physical punishment between the ages of six and nine years predicted higher levels of antisocial behaviour two years later. Subsequent prospective studies yielded similar results, whether they controlled for parental age, child age, race and family structure;12 poverty, child age, emotional support, cognitive stimulation, sex, race and the interactions among these variables;13 or other factors.14–17 These studies provide the strongest evidence available that physical punishment is a risk factor for child aggression and antisocial behaviour.


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Response to kcr (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:25 AM

52. I cant help but wonder what RACE has to do with this story.

I bet it has something to do with it.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:49 PM

25. Let me give you the OTHER side of your sweet little scenerio...

I was a very abused child. By my father. Verbally and physically. And very often. So guess what happened when I got paddled for a minor issue at school? It brought back ALL those horrible experiences at home. Those experiences that school usually sheltered me from.
So yes, I will call you crazy, since you insist.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:57 PM

28. Can you show causation between corporal punishment and respect by children?

Or is your post hoc ergo promper hoc fallacy simply another feel-good editorial about hitting children?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:58 PM

30. I select #2.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:57 PM

29. And if this is such a good idea,

why not extend it to the workplace?

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 01:08 PM

33. That's crazy and wrong on every level. Pain, fear and humiliation are the seeds of sado/masochists

along with a host of other unhealthy associations with dominance. It is abuse in every sense of the word.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 01:36 PM

34. I'm sitting here reliving the abuse I received at the hands of a teacher

right now. Thank you for that.

My own experience with physical punishment at school took me from an already respectful child to a traumatized one with issues that last to this day and this moment.

I was six years old. I had first-grade math homework. I did not understand it and did it wrong. Instead of showing me why I had not gotten it right, my teacher berated me and struck me across the face. From that day forward, I was never able to handle math again without crippling anxiety. To illustrate how bad it was, when I took the SATs I scored perfect on the verbal and 300 on the math.

No one understood what had happened to me and I was too ashamed to tell my parents or even my sister. I did not speak of it aloud until college when I had an epiphany that I had been abused, not corrected.


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Response to lisby (Reply #34)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:42 PM

84. I sympathize with you

When I was a second grader, and a very quiet and shy one at that, my teacher Miss Wickham thought I wasn't paying attention, walked by my desk and pulled my ear - hard. I remember feeling so humiliated. This was about 1962.

One never forgets these moments

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 01:41 PM

35. I agree with you.

Lets look at this from a logical point. When I was a child my father hit me in an abusive way but he also spanked me when I damn well deserved it. Even being an abused child I KNEW the difference between what I did NOT deserve and when I DID deserve it. Back then when children got paddled they more than likely tended not to be disrespectful towards adults and tended not to misbehave. Yes, spanking/paddling should be used as the absolute last resort but used in a logical manner it is useful. Odd thing about my father was when he beat me in a way he shouldn't have he did not care if he was angry or not. When he spanked me for something I really deserved it for he always sent me to my room or had me sit at the table so he would not end up using his anger to punish me. My mother gave me a paddle here and there if I was being a brat but it never really hurt but got my attention. My mother was also not the type of mother who used the "wait till your father gets home" crap.
This is the DU member formerly known as Doreen.

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Response to Doreen (Reply #35)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:07 AM

43. What do you think about an 18 year old senior being paddled to the point of bleeding

because she left the school to get breakfast?

She was a legal adult and when they said they were going to beat her she tried to withdraw from the school -- which was her right, as an adult. But they held her down and beat her to the point where she had to go to the hospital.

The Supreme Court considered the case and decided it was fine. They've decided that other egregious cases that put kids in hospitals were fine, too.

And there was no recourse for the victim or their parents; and no consequences for the abusive adults.

This is what happens when you give that kind of power to authority figures. Some WILL abuse it.

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/school_law/2008/06/the_supreme_court_and_corporal.html

Serafin says in court papers that when principal Brett Wilkinson sought to paddle her on that day in June 2004, she asked to withdraw herself from the school instead. Her request was refused, and two school employees helped restrain Serafin while the principal began paddling her. After the first strike, Serafin freed one of her hands, which was struck by the paddle. The principal allegedly told her, "That hit didn't count," and he struck her again, according to the former student's account. Serafin called her mother and left the school after the paddling, which left her buttocks bleeding and her hand swollen, according to court papers. She was treated at a hospital emergency room.


https://www.myplainview.com/news/article/18-year-old-student-sues-over-paddling-8675429.php

Serafin says the summer school principal, who is a named defendant in the lawsuit, hit her three or four times. She said she tried to block one of the blows and the paddle "smashed her hand."

"I started screaming because I thought he had broke my hand," she said.

Serafin said she went to the hospital because she could hardly walk after school and her hand was severely swollen. Her hand was put in a cast at the emergency room.

State law allows parents to spank their minor children if the parent "reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare." But the law does not allow parents to use force on children who are 18 or older, Hargove said.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:18 AM

50. That is of course wrong.

Spanking an adult is wrong when there are many other ways to deal with a behavior situation ( if it is actually a behavior situation. ) By the time a person gets to a certain age spanking does not work and for older preteens and teens there are things that hurt them more such as no phone, no tablet, no seeing friends, and not going out to events. Do not get me wrong on this issue with Serafin because hitting her was wrong. NO ONE should EVER be beaten to the point of bleeding. If she was actually doing something wrong he should have suspended her and having that on her school record would be punishment enough.
This is the DU member formerly known as Doreen.

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Response to Doreen (Reply #50)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:29 PM

60. Why is it OK for an adult to hit a kid and not another adult?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #60)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:55 PM

81. Probably because the adult might hit back!

Children are powerless easy targets of abusers.

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Response to StarryNite (Reply #81)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:00 PM

82. Exactly.

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Response to Doreen (Reply #50)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:38 PM

63. Well, as I said, the Supreme Court recognizes no distinction between what happened with her

and a "love tap." When you legalize one, you legalize all.

And there are many, many cases of abusive school paddlings, involving hematomas and other injuries, when you google for them.

Meanwhile, the large majority of states -- mostly northern states -- get along perfectly well without corporal punishment. Children in Texas, Georgia, Alabama, etc. are NOT more well behaved than children in Washington, Minnesota, and Massachusetts, and children in corporal punishment states aren't more likely to graduate high school or attend college. They're just more likely to be abused in school and to live in households with guns.

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Response to Doreen (Reply #50)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:45 PM

65. School officials often make "wrong choices" about paddling. Like paddling students who walked out

in a protest about gun violence last spring.

It is time to take this proven-worthless and proven-abusive option away from schools in all states.


https://schoolswats.wordpress.com/2018/05/13/1530/

Last March an Arkansas mother posted that her 17 year old son was spanked by his principal for walking out of class to protest gun violence. Her son, along with two other students, were given the choice of getting struck with a wooden paddle or two days of in-school-suspension, and they all chose the first option. This sparked outrage on social media, given that most people do not know that paddling still exists in USA schools.

While corporal punishment is banned at schools in 128 countries, 19 USA states and over 4,000 schools still allow school administrators to assault students with wooden paddles, and the practice is so much more widespread than one may think. Each year tens of thousands American students are given the choice of getting struck with a paddle in lieu of another type of punishment such as detention or in-school-suspension, but there are plenty of schools that do not give students an alternative option to a paddling.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:26 AM

46. Jesus christ...

I don't hit my child. I certainly don't want a teacher or school administrator hitting my child.

Fuck that!

(And I discipline just fine. I'm actually very strict. But if you have to resort to HITTING a fucking CHILD then you're other methods of discipline aren't very effective.)

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:32 AM

55. Your Screenname Is Most Apt

Yes, i will call you crazy.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:28 PM

59. Shaming and pain don't teach respect; they teach fear. And that's a shitty idea.

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Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:53 PM

85. I understand that one school recently implemented had behavior problems NOSE DIVE.

 

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:54 PM

26. "All it's going to do is make your kid into someone who beats their kids"

- Bob Lassiter.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:56 PM

27. Assault and child abuse?

Amazing.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:59 PM

31. When we lived in Mississippi we had to sign an opt out form every school year, so this doesn't

surprise me.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 01:52 PM

36. charter school what do you expect

school for innovation and the classics....wtf does that mean????????

is that like becoming a vegetarian by only eating beef?

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #36)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:46 PM

66. This happens in all types of public schools all over 19 states. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #66)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 08:00 PM

88. Charter has a special kind of stupid

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #88)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 08:30 PM

89. You know what

This is bugging me.

This is the corporal punishment policy of the public school system where I live:

CORPORAL PUNISHMENT
Corporal punishment is defined as physical discipline. Corporal punishment must be approved as policy for the school by the
principal, and students must be notified what misconduct could result in this type of discipline. It is not intended to be used as a first
method of discipline, but after several other methods have been used to modify a student’s behavior. Corporal punishment must be
witnessed by a second school official or teacher. A parent can then request a written explanation of the reasons for the punishment and
the name of the witness.


My two children attend a charter school, rather than one of the county department of ed schools. Unlike those schools, the charter school my children attend does not allow corporal punishment. Why is that? Because in my community none of the members of the public school board have the nerve to remove it. Heck, most of our public school board members don't have the good sense to want to remove it even if they weren't afraid of the voters.

Maybe you live in a community where the public schools are fairly progressive and charter schools are run for profit. I totally understand that this is a big part of the charter school picture, and I understand how they can be seen as taking resources from public schools that were already struggling. Maybe I live in a community where the public schools are regressive and there is a small non-profit charter school that emphasizes outdoor learning and small class sizes, and that attracts wonderful dedicated teachers who are burnt out by the schools in the district.

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #88)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 08:47 PM

90. I haven't seen any evidence that they're more likely to use corporal punishment. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #90)

Wed Sep 12, 2018, 08:36 AM

92. but i have seen charters as being special stupid

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 01:56 PM

37. *Awesome*

Last edited Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Not hard to get a school policy on discipline enacted but try implementing a pro-LGBTQ policy (or even policies that protect students from bullying because we all know that that means that Xtian kids can't bully LGBTQ kids) and the wingnuts lose their minds.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 04:47 PM

39. OK fine, but on one condition

The consenting parents and the school staff administering the corporal punishment are then liable for a public caning and whipping if their action is deemed by the students to be unjustified.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:21 AM

51. Notice it's a charter school - time to take your kids back to traditional school!

I say, let the morons tell the parents they want to abuse their kids.

Anything that kills charter schools is fine by me....

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Response to Coventina (Reply #51)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:47 PM

67. In 19 states it happens in regular public schools.


https://schoolswats.wordpress.com/2018/05/13/1530/

Last March an Arkansas mother posted that her 17 year old son was spanked by his principal for walking out of class to protest gun violence. Her son, along with two other students, were given the choice of getting struck with a wooden paddle or two days of in-school-suspension, and they all chose the first option. This sparked outrage on social media, given that most people do not know that paddling still exists in USA schools.

While corporal punishment is banned at schools in 128 countries, 19 USA states and over 4,000 schools still allow school administrators to assault students with wooden paddles, and the practice is so much more widespread than one may think. Each year tens of thousands American students are given the choice of getting struck with a paddle in lieu of another type of punishment such as detention or in-school-suspension, but there are plenty of schools that do not give students an alternative option to a paddling.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:25 AM

53. Want to paddle my daughter? Good luck.

 

She’s nearly six feet tall at fourteen years old and has three years of a contact sport (flat track roller derby) under her belt. Any administrator dumb enough to lay hands on her is going to get flattened.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #53)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:49 PM

68. Dream on. There are reports of teenage BOYS being held down by multiple men,

and paddled so hard they were put in the hospital.

That happened in a case that went to the Supreme Court -- and the SC upheld corporal punishment , even this abusive.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:24 PM

72. Luckily that shit won't fly in California.

 

Can you imagine someone doing that to your kid? Anyone’s kid?

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Response to Codeine (Reply #72)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:31 PM

75. It still happens every day in 19 states.

A large chunk of our country is still backwards which is why all of us have to suffer.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:41 PM

61. Hamilton County Tennessee (Chattanooga)

This is the county policy (there is no requirement that parents opt in or a procedure for them to opt out):

CORPORAL PUNISHMENT
Corporal punishment is defined as physical discipline. Corporal punishment must be approved as policy for the school by the
principal, and students must be notified what misconduct could result in this type of discipline. It is not intended to be used as a first
method of discipline, but after several other methods have been used to modify a student’s behavior. Corporal punishment must be
witnessed by a second school official or teacher. A parent can then request a written explanation of the reasons for the punishment and
the name of the witness.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:07 PM

62. It's not even effective.

Ignoring for the moment the many other serious problems with hitting children, it's not even an effective punishment for schools.

I know this is anecdotal but my grandmother was a rural teacher 60 years ago when paddling/slapping students was allowed. She talks about how the she never had any trouble with students in part because she instead made them stay after school as punishment, forcing their parents to come get the students and alerting them to the bad behavior. She also believes that most teachers chose paddling instead because then they didn't have ti stay after school with the students.

Similarly, my dad also went to a small town school where students were given the option of paddling or detention. He says every student chose paddling because then you'd just go on with your day after.

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Response to SomethingNew (Reply #62)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:52 PM

69. It isn't effective at all. I moved from a state that allowed it,

with a paddle hanging on the classroom wall, to one that didn't -- no difference in student behavior.

And in WA where I've lived as an adult it became illegal since I've been here - no increase in student discipline problems.

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Response to SomethingNew (Reply #62)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:09 PM

71. Of course it isn't effective, but that isn't why they're doing it.

There are people who enjoy hurting children. Some of them are parents, and some of them work in schools.

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Response to SomethingNew (Reply #62)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:27 PM

73. I got many, MANY paddlings for being a smartass

 

in 1970s Wyoming. At no point did my mouth become less smart. In fact, knowing I was more than able to deal with the swats probably emboldened me.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:55 PM

70. I went to a school like that in Brooklyn, NY

in the mid to late 80s. Private christian school that went from pre-k through 12th grade. I was there until the 3rd grade--I don't know how the older kids were disciplined, but with us, they'd hit the palm of our hands with a ruler. I don't think it was helpful, and punishments were doled out in an unfair manner. One thing I'll note is that I came out of there a beast, performing on par with middle schoolers+ as far as reading, writing, math, etc. However, the corporal punishment probably hurt more than helped in that outcome.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:37 PM

79. Easier and cheaper than teaching.

I've said that Republican initiatives are turning schools into cheap daycare. Seems they're determined to make them into prisons.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:55 PM

86. People who want to paddle other people's kids are likely perverts.

 

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:56 PM

87. Britain abolished corporal punishment in state schools in 1986..

though it was still permitted in private schools until the late 90s.

It sounds like a very retrograde and nasty step. All the evidence is that corporal punishment does not improve work or behaviour in the long term, and makes children more likely to be bullies, as this is after all what the grown-ups are doing.

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