Please prepare yourself: justice will not be done.

[Atticus]

Justice would mean that the entire Trump "presidency" would be nullified---declared illegitimate in its entirety. Trump would be retroactively removed from office and publicly frog-marched to a federal lockup to await the filing of criminal charges.

Pence is "VP" only because Trump selected him. Therefore, Pence would not be anyone's Vice-President.

All judicial appointments would be vacated and declared "open".

The new Speaker would serve as POTUS long enough to name Hillary Clinton Vice-President and then resign to resume the Speakership. President Clinton would select a new VP and review all appointments made since January, 2017, beginning with the Cabinet. No salaries paid would be effected, but some funds allocated by Trump could be "clawed back" where appropriate.

That would be a start, but---it ain't happenin'. Prepare to grit your teeth, clench your fists and cuss a blue streak ---and, then, carry on. As our last true President reminds us: "Better is good". Let's do what Democrats do: make things better---for ourselves, our children and our grandchildren.

[maxsolomon]

1. I doubt anyone expects THAT much justice.

I don't even expect him to be convicted in the Senate after being impeached. I just want him rendered impotent in November, and gone in January 2021.

[CincyDem]

27. I would love that much justice but only if it comes with a pony too.

Seriously - I hope for the same thing you do. Neuter him in November and boot him in 2020 with a reputation so tattered that he could put his brand name on doggie poop bags.

That's probably as good as it gets.

[bettyellen]

28. This exactly. I'd like losing the Kavanaugh appointment to be the first brick in the wall. And for

The GOP to abandon him after the midterms because they finally see the damage is all on him.

[PJMcK]

2. Which Article in the Constitution provides for nullification?

Let’s be real.

[jberryhill]

5. It's written on the back

[PJMcK]

6. Don't you need special specs to read it? (n/t)

[Atticus]

10. Hence, the clear concession: "---it ain't happenin'". I never claimed it was specificslly

provided for in the Constitution. I said it would be "justice". I stand by that.

[PJMcK]

13. Trump will face Justice

You can count on it.

[former9thward]

25. What is your definition of "Justice"?

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. I hope you are right. justice for treason will never happen

Rump is not the only one guilty of treason though...many are.

Personally I think Manafort just made a deal giving up almost nothing since he is gonna get a pardon, and that Mueller will not indict rump and of course neither will gop.

Even if house impeaches, senate traitors aka GOP will not convict.

He will not only get away with it but will steal billions in the process

UNLESS the State of NY can do something...I dont say this out loud often because I want people to vote.

So ignore me

[PJMcK]

31. Nope

No way I'm going to ignore you, Eliot. Not after all your posts that I've read.

Trump is going down. Count on it.

Peace, amigo.

[lunamagica]

3. That's so true. One way or another, they get away with it. So much gamage has been done

already...

[FakeNoose]

4. We'd have to rewrite the Constitution for that to happen

Even if we did rewrite the Constitution, it wouldn't be retro-active to Trump's pResidency*.

So you're right in that regard, justice will not be done because Hillary Clinton's loss will never be avenged.

But when this is over, the Democrats are going to be stronger and smarter. We'll be more on the ball whenever the GOP starts cheating because that will happen immediately. The GOP can't win unless they cheat, and they know it.
We know it.

[john657]

7. If you would,

please cite the article in the Constitution that provides for that.

I took Civics in High School and I don't remember anywhere in the Constitution that allows for that.
Maybe I missed it.
Thanks in advance.

[Atticus]

12. See post #10 and then read the OP. Thanks in advance. nt

[mythology]

8. So to save the Constitution we have to destroy it

That wouldn't be justice.

[stopbush]

9. Why not throw in flying cars while you're at it?

Seriously, your post is self aggrandizing.

[Atticus]

15. What part of my description of of "justice" do you disagree with? The OP clearly

states "it ain't happenin'". It was not offered as a proposal.

[stopbush]

22. You take it upon yourself to decide penalties that - if not levied - will mean justice

wasn’t served.

[Atticus]

24. I took a position. I thought that was sort of what one did on a discussion board.

You are "taking it upon yourself" to criticize my post in a way that I still don't really understand. But, that's OK. Maybe we'll connect next time.

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. I will GLADLY join in and say if rump and mcconnell and nunes and ryan and most of the GOP

dont go to prison, justice will NOT have been served.

That is the easiest thing I have had to do today.

Will NOT Have been served, NOT NOT NOT

[lapfog_1]

14. one technical problem

If the Speaker assumes the Presidency, they must resign from the House (Constitution issue).

Once they resign their House membership, it might be difficult for them to become a member of the House again (after they resign the Presidency). That would depend on each state and the rules to fill a vacant House seat.

there is no mechanism other than impeachment to remove the judicial appointments without a constitutional amendment.

[unblock]

17. as long as we're being technical, the speaker doesn't have to be a member of the house.

but you're correct that in that they would then be a speaker without a vote in the house, at least until appointed by the governor of their home state, or until they win a special election, or otherwise regain their seat however it is done in their home state.

[Honeycombe8]

16. Yes, I know. It'll be hard. But I think I have low enough expectations.

So maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised that something actually happens to save the country, besides the Democrats taking back the House & picking up a couple of seats in the Senate, so that we at least have some way to stop some of the horror that's raining down on us.

[Atticus]

18. I will reply to my own post in order to respond to the several who either did not

read the OP or misread it and feel compelled to lecture that "you can't do that" or "the Constitution does not authorize that".

Please read this carefully: the only thing the OP proposes we do is "prepare" for the fact that none of of what I described as "justice" will occur.

While I believe it would constitute "justice" if what I described were to occur, I ACKNOWLEDGED IN THE OP that it would not happen and I did not even suggest that we should pursue those outcomes.

OK?

[struggle4progress]

19. Don't pretend to know the future: just really work towards it

[pecosbob]

20. At some point the length of Mueller's investigation transforms it into cover for Trump

If Mueller goes on for two years and all we get is a couple of Scooter Libby or Oliver North falling on their sword bullshit convictions then Mueller's investigation becomes unintentional obstruction of justice. All charges need to be filed now...all investigations that can be performed without the aid of Congress should be initiated now. Every day this administration continues to hold power normalizes Republican lawlessness and transforms it into the status quo.

[Awsi Dooger]

21. Where does any of that come from?

Don't be a Happy Adjuster. Never be a Happy Adjuster. Whenever there's the slightest inclination...just stop.

From the header I thought this thread would be a logical depiction of Mueller's difficult in actually pinning anything on Trump, anything that would impact the presidency. Instead it's a wild nullification fantasy, a day after the Rachel Maddow sentence to the Smithsonian fantasy.

This president has a 40% approval rating. He's not going anywhere. His favorable rating in the 2016 national exit poll was 38%

[Atticus]

30. After admonishing me not to be a "happy adjuster", you conclude with "he's not going anywhere".

Are you an "unhappy adjuster"?

Also, I clearly stated that the "wild nullification fantasy" "ain't happenin'", so you cannot reasonably have assumed that my post was proposing that we pursue it.

So, what part of what I described as justice do you have an issue with? Don't explain why it can't happen. The OP is based on that very premise. What is your problem?

[NewJeffCT]

23. What my dream would be

1) Democrats pick up a huge amount of seats in the House (similar to 2010, or better, where GOP picked up 60+) and miraculously win a 51 or 52 seat majority in the Senate.

2) Democrats immediately start passing legislation to keep Trump on the defensive - force him to veto legislation that repeals the Trump tax cuts, protect people with pre-existing conditions, protect Robert Mueller, reinstate banking and environmental regulations, etc

3) Give the entire White House and cabinet thorough enemas with massive investigations into Trump/Russia, corruption with every cabinet official, Trump Foundation, Election Fraud, etc. Numerous officials indicted.

4) Public testimony from The Trump Boys, Jared Kushner, Michael Cohen, Don McGahn, etc where they stab each other in the back and also make major gaffes turns the public even more against Team Trump.

5) Trump poll ratings go down even lower - even GOP numbers start tanking. GOP House & Senate members now more critical of Trump. Trump tries to pardon himself of any and all crimes. Supreme Court rejects the Trump ability to self-pardon. Trump then tries to blame it all on Pence.

6) Impeachment hearings start in the Fall of 2019. Trump indicted with over 300 YES votes, and convicted with over 75 votes in the Senate. He is dragged kicking & screaming from office, blaming everybody but himself, of course. As soon as he is removed from office, he is indicted on scores of charges at the Federal level, including treason, and also by NY State. Assets are frozen. Trump boys and Jared are also indicted.

7) Pence assumes the presidency under the cloud of the investigation continuing. the MAGA crowd is despondent without their fuhrer in place and many abandon the party and politics in general and return to their mom's basements, leaving Pence with an approval rating below Nixon at his nadir. Pence negotiates a deal with House/Senate Dem leaders that he will not pardon anybody and will agree to not run for re-election.

8) Pence names a moderate Republican as VP who agrees not to pardon Trump or anybody else and also agrees not to run in 2020.

9) Democrats win big in 2020 - increasing margins in the House by several and in the Senate by a bunch. Whoever Dems run in 2020 for president also wins bigly. "Popular" GOP governors Kasich, Baker, etc decline to run for president, leaving Ted Cruz to lose in an epic landslide.

10) Trump and his two sons and Jared Kushner all end up in prison for life. Trump assets are sold off to reimburse children and families traumatized by being kept in internment camps and to people he's ripped off in prior business dealings. Don Sr lasts only a few months in prison before dying of a heart attack.

11) Democrats hold onto the presidency and Congress for 20+ years, strengthen Social Security, Implement Medicare For All and amend the Constitution to make the Voting Rights Act an amendment and to allow gay marriage.