it's not a criminal trial, it's a JOB INTERVIEW

[0rganism]

a lot of discussions about this Kavanaugh senate process get all wrapped up in "ooh, it's a he said/she said situation"

well i've never been on trial, although i have sat on a jury and i understand the "presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt" standard.

but one thing i've done plenty of is job interviews.

if i, as a programmer/ee, went into a job interview for something as minor as a 3-month contract gig, and there was some kind of a "he said/she said" situation in my background, i would not get the job. simple as that. for a job that probably wouldn't affect anyone outside of the employer's full-time staff.

Mr. Kavanaugh is applying for an important job that impacts everyone and comes with a lifetime tenure, establishing him permanently in the upper echelons of American jurisprudence. the senate's approval process is his job interview. he is NOT entitled to a "beyond reasonable doubt" standard of proof of his malfeasance for purposes of his job interview.

'nuff said, i hope.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Exactly. This should not be treated like a criminal proceeding.

While of course Kavanaugh should be treated fairly, he's not entitled to be presumed innocent unless proved otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt. If he were being tried for the alleged crime, of course those principles would apply. But while he's entitled to a fair trial on any criminal charge, he's not entitled to a position on the Supreme Court. In fact, he and anyone else nominated to be a Supreme Court justice should be held to an especially high standard. It's not unfair to ask him to provide evidence that he didn't do what Dr. Ford claimed, or for the Senate to reject his appointment if he can't or won't do that.

The last time I applied for a job - a mid-level professional position with a very large corporation - the process took four months and included a pretty thorough background check. If someone had told that prospective employer that years ago I'd assaulted or harmed someone, I would have had to present evidence that I didn't do it or they wouldn't have hired me. Why should someone who wanted to be a Supreme Court justice be subject to less scrutiny than someone applying for an ordinary job with a private company?

[B2G]

3. How would you go about presenting evidence

That you didn't do it?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. For starters: Witnesses who could say he wasn't at any parties that summer.

The guy who was with him (who currently refuses to testify). Other people at the party, if it's identified, who can say he wasn't there. Information from the owner of the house where the party was held. People who can say somebody else did it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. So we have a situation where one person describes the incident in considerable detail,

discussed it years ago with her husband and her therapist, and the other who claims he doesn't remember anything. Since Kavanaugh isn't entitled to a job on the Supreme Court, why is his claim that he doesn't remember anything entitled to more weight than Dr. Ford's detailed descriptions? That balance wouldn't hold up in a criminal trial, but this isn't that - not even close.

[B2G]

10. How would you defend yourself in such circumstances

In the job scenario you described above? Could you? And if you couldn't, would you be OK with just losing the offer? Knowing that any subsequent offers would end in the same result? You are now essentially unemployable with nothing on your record yet unable to offer proof of your innocence.

Is that what you're advocating for? Because that seems like what you are endorsing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. Like I said, Kavanaugh isn't entitled to a Supreme Court position.

He already has a good job on a Circuit Court of Appeals, which he is in no danger of losing. In my example, my employer could have decided not to hire me if I couldn't present any evidence that I'd never done some bad thing that turned up in a background check, and they would have every legal right to do that. If they liked me well enough they would have the discretion to take a chance and hire me anyhow, depending on what the claim was. This happens all the time. Nobody is entitled to a particular job, and if it's a job that should require the highest standards of honesty and integrity, too bad.

[B2G]

12. If it showed up on your background check

You would have been charged with something.

Never mind.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. Not necessarily.

[Nevilledog]

15. For example: arrests

Arrests are on record FOREVER even if it's proven a person was innocent and even if the person is never charged.

[Adrahil]

16. I think in this case, it's about assessing the credibility of those involved.

Dr. Ford DID discuss this incident well before Kavanaugh was nominated, for example.

Meanwhile, there seems to be some evidence he may have lied during his previous hearing.

[Kingofalldems]

14. So are you saying we should just drop the whole thing and let Kavanaugh on the SC?

[gratuitous]

2. Kavanaugh isn't at risk of going to jail

He's just not going to get the ultimate promotion for his line of work. Who moves up the chain of command in the military? The squeakiest cleanest ones. The ones with reprimands or other black marks on their record don't move up.

Now, if Kavanaugh was on trial for, say, perjury or lying under oath (let's just say), then he'd be entitled to due process and all the other niceties of a criminal prosecution. Same goes for if he was impeached and was tried by the Senate.

[BigmanPigman]

4. Can you imagine if you were a male teacher applying for a job.

You know damn well that he would be checked out thoroughly by the school district. Politicians and priests get treated like they are royalty and even insinuating any wrong doing is unheard of. They protect each other.

[JHB]

7. Multiply that by evidence of perjury

Lying under oath to congress didn't happen when he was a 17-year-old preppie.

[Eliot Rosewater]

9. Vast majority of the nation WANTED Garland, vast vast vast majority of the nation does NOT want

this nazi.

Guess what will happen though.

GOP hates democracy and America and proves it daily.

Our SC will not be valid, people who live in blue states will have some reprieve but the country will break apart which is what Putin wants who is of course behind all this.

Putin wins, we all lose. Enjoy your home while there is still an institution with paperwork that says it is your home.

[Crash2Parties]

17. If you had two equal applicants but one had even hints of such allegations...

But hey, this is the party that backed Roy Moore, too.

Which reminds me: apart from them wanting to stuff the court, every time they get away with something despicable, they raise the bar for what they can get away with in the future. Boiling frog, and all that. And so far it has worked brilliantly for them.

[Cartaphelius]

18. Very important distinction

O, you definitely cleared away all the political B.S. smoke and stink coming from the right.

The pre-judgement made long before by the Republicans shows their fear of exposure. They are tasked to;

1) Protect the right of men to abuse women, for that been the right of men since the dawn of mankind;
2) Protection will thus be unequivocal regardless of insinuation or accusation;
3) Protection of men that attempt and/or succeed to "plow through" a woman's "NO's!
4) Protect themselves from their own indiscretions;
4) Have Mitch McConnell announce ..."We will plow through," Dr. Ford's silly and "mixed up"
defense of Woman's' Right to decide the "who, what, when, where and how" she is touched;

NOTES: Isn't that what Mr. Kavanaugh is accused of? Trying to "plow" Dr. Ford?
Isn't that what McConnell said he was going to do to America? "Plow " Kavanaugh up the ass of America?


So the take away here is; Would you hire Kavanaugh, to scoop ice cream in a senior citizen home where your wife works?
Or your mother lives? Pick your daughter up in an UBER?

Ohhhh... and then there is the "good Christian" thing.

Which only goes to show that we all have skeletons. It is undeniable. Those of us without means, however, do suffer the consequences
of our actions. So suck it up buttercup, you aren't worthy.