Kavanaugh broke the law by drinking at 18. The MD drinking age had been raised to 21.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Tue Sep 25, 2018, 01:35 PM - Edit history (4)

And NOW he's LYING about it. Why, when most people drink underage?

Of course, he was 17 at the party Christine Ford described, but he has said the age was 18 then. The media has mostly gotten this wrong, just repeating his claim. (ON UPDATE: Just saw Ari on MSNBC explaining this. Good for him.)

But the legal age in MD was raised to 21 in July 1982. He didn't turn 18 till 1983.

The law "grandfathered-in" teens and 20's who had already turned 18 by July 1982, but that did not include Kavanaugh, whose 18th birthday was in February 1983.

So he was lying when he said he was drinking legally in high school. He wasn't legal in high school, at any point. (And his mother, who was a judge, surely conveyed that fact to him.)

He was ALSO drinking illegally at Yale. The age in Connecticut was raised to 20 in 1983. The age was raised to 21 in August 1985 -- when he was 20. He graduated in 1987, so he was only legal for drinking after his February birthday in his junior year.

I realize most college students have consumed alcohol illegally at college -- but he is an adult who is LYING about this. What else is he lying about?


https://www.thisisinsider.com/kavanaugh-doesnt-remember-christine-ford-supreme-court-2018-9

"Yes, there were parties and the drinking age was 18," Kavanaugh said. "And yes, the seniors were legal and had beer there.

From July 1982:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1982/07/03/grandfathered-teen-agers/5cc2a9ac-0e20-4842-856a-be1a29f9f12e/?utm_term=.87dad126bd53

And yesterday, Maryland created yet another other special category of duly authorized drinkers: teen-agers who had turned 18 by Wednesday, and therefore are allowed to drink in the state under a grandfather clause in the new law raising the minimum age for anybody else to 21 as of July 1.

21
The change brings the Connecticut law full circle since 1972, when the state lowered the drinking age to 18 from 21. The drinking age was raised to 19 in 1982 and to 20 in 1983. Under the new law, those who turn 20 by Sunday will be allowed to continue drinking legally.Aug 31, 1985
CONNECTICUT DRINKING AGE GOING UP - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/1985/08/31/.../connecticut-drinking-age-going-up.html

[Alhena]

1. I guess it depends whether he bought and drank the beer in Maryland or DC

[pnwmom]

2. We know he partied in Maryland. n/t

[spooky3]

5. True, but given how far away GP is from DC, my

Guess is that they drank at parties in Maryland.

[ProfessorGAC]

3. So A SCOTUS Nominee Doesn't Even Know That Law?

What impeccable qualifications!

[unblock]

4. "ok yes i may have been illegally drinking. but in my defense i was drunk at the time."

[JCMach1]

6. Fake ID's and most places didn't care anyway

My memories from college and missing being grandfathered in by 3 months.

It was the 80's alcohol was the drug of choice

[pnwmom]

15. The issue here isn't his drinking; it's that he has a pattern of LYING. n/t

[JCMach1]

17. Well, he even lied about the heavy drinking

Refering to his college roommate's statement.

He has multiple lies and questions outside of the assault issue that should exclude him.

A credible assault allegation(s) is just that much more...

[Nevilledog]

7. Yet, he's willing to lie about it anyway.

It's like no one has ever taught these douchebags the difference between the truth and a lie.

[fescuerescue]

8. underage drinking is pretty common

even more common then. That law is ignored almost as much as speed limits.

Honestly though, I don't think they are going to withhold confirmation based on underage drinking.

[BumRushDaShow]

10. But the issue is

that he is representing himself as some kind of innocent "boy scout" and the media is going right along with it. If he had smoked pot (which I wouldn't be surprised either) and was not who he was, they would have been all over it. Look what they did to Obama re: pot (and let's not forget the drubbing the "but I didn't inhale" Clinton got for that ).

There is a perverse and pervasive culture out there that once again, rewards "bad behavior" by some and throws others in jail for the same thing.

[pnwmom]

13. Exactly. It's the lying, along with the choir boy act. n/t

[BumRushDaShow]

16. "Choir boy" act is the perfect term.

[fescuerescue]

18. Do you think that Obama should have been disqualified?

or CLinton? I don't. Frankly I think the drinking age should be 18. (and marijuana legalized)

Id sure hate to see a liberal justice disqualified for taking a drink at 17.

If we take a pure stance on this issue, expect it to come back around.

[pnwmom]

21. No one's talking about not approving him because he drank beer at 17.

He was accused of, with another 17 year old varsity football player, grabbing a 15 year old girl in the hall, pushing her into the bedroom, throwing her onto the bed, locking the door, turning up the music, putting a hand over her mouth, pulling at her clothing, and jumping on her -- first one, then both. She was afraid the two drunkards were going to crush her and she was afraid for her life.

That's the issue. Not having a drink at 17. Why are you minimizing what he did?

[Dorian Gray]

25. I don't see anybody

minimizing his attempted assault on Ford.

What they are saying is that calling THIS particular issue out as a lie (that he said he drank legally in MD months after the law changed and when he could go into DC) is going to rankle people. It's a distraction from the VERY HORRIBLE THING he is consistently obfuscating and lying about.

[BumRushDaShow]

26. "I don't see anybody minimizing his attempted assault on Ford."

The entire GOP apparatus, along with the nominee, has denied that ANY ASSAULT (attempted or otherwise) happened and then you have the thing in the WH underscoring that by pointing out that since the victims were drunk, basically what they are claiming is b.s.

The lying about "legal drinking" is just the icing on the whole lie cake.

[Dorian Gray]

33. Well, yes,

of course the GOP has been minimizing it. I meant on this board when I sad I hadn't seen people doing it. I should have been more clear.

[pnwmom]

30. The person I was responding to was comparing his behavior to Obama and Clinton. n/t

[fescuerescue]

35. I guess I read the OP wrong

It seemed to be focused on underage drinking, had links to the when the law changed and his age at the time. In fact the OP didn't even mention the grabbing of the 15 year old. SHe totally minimized and forgot about while while writing 6 paragraphs about 35 year old liquor laws.

Maybe I read it wrong.

And I'm not minimizing drinking at age 17. It's just something that I don't care about, whether thats Kavanaugh, Obama, Clinton, or even myself.

Let's talk about the assault on this girl shall we? It something the the OP forgot about in her opening liquor remarks.

[pnwmom]

39. You apparently think it doesn't matter that Kavanaugh today, as an adult, has been

flagrantly, repeatedly lying.

His claim about the drinking age is just one example.

I think it does matter that we can't trust a word he says -- even the things that are easy to fact check, he lies about.

(And having grown up in the same era in the same general region of the country, young people were acutely aware of the changes in the legal drinking age, down and then up again. No way he didn't notice.)

[fescuerescue]

40. I'm sure he has.

So let's catch him on that.

That's a HELLA lot easier to prove and gain interest than the 1983 drinking age compliance.

[BumRushDaShow]

23. The problem has been

in this case, that THIS particular nominee didn't just "take a drink" at 17. He was completely inebriated during party after party after party and attacked girls in high school and young women in college, with the rest of his hoodlums. And don't forget a Democratic President WAS impeached for his consensual relationship with his intern and lying about it, yet this nominee has lied repeatedly to Congress.

People laugh at the movie "Animal House" but that is the type of behavior that they exhibited. And having gone to a big state university myself during the late '70s - early '80s, I have seen it (and I won't even talk about what happened every Halloween).

[pnwmom]

14. The issue is the LYING, and his behavior, not moderate underage drinking. n/t

[fescuerescue]

19. So were you onboard with the Clinton impeachment then?

Cause I remember Republicans saying exactly what you just said. Except they did impeach him over it.

[pnwmom]

20. The situations aren't comparable. Clinton was convicted of lying about consensual sex,

not lying about a sexual assault.

More importantly, Clinton had been elected to a 4 year term, and was re-elected. Kavanaugh is about to be put in a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court, by a President who lost the popular by 2.9 million. He doesn't deserve the post.

[fescuerescue]

37. That's what the Republicans will say

"you can't compare CLinton and Kavanugh"..."Because reasons that make this side look better"

Anyway.

This has been a nice diversion and I''m sure that Kavanugh appreciated your efforts.

Lets focus on the actual crime.

[pnwmom]

41. You seem to think that it's fine for a Supreme Court judge to be a flagrant liar,

on top of being a sexual assaulter in his past. I don't.

[fescuerescue]

42. Have you checked red light cameras around his office?

Why not? DO you feel it's ok for a SC judge to maybe blow through a yellow light sometimes? Does he water his lawn on even days when he supposed to do it on odd days? I bet he does.

Every minute the public is debating whether or not Kav took a drink 35 years ago, or ran a red light last week, is a minute they are not talking sexual assault.

The leadership is focusing on what they can stop him with. They can't stop him on a 35 year old drinking violation.

[pnwmom]

46. You are missing the point. He is lying about his drinking to SUPPORT his innocence

of the rape attempt. He's saying he was legally drinking and only moderately drinking -- both of which are false.

He's a liar and nothing he says about the sexual assault can be believed.

[fescuerescue]

47. I get it.

But I'm saying that nobody cares. Honest to god I can tell you, I don't care about a 35 year old can of beer, and I bet you really don't either. Now I -could- pretend to care, and so can you....but that effort won't make his supporters care, let alone pretend to care.

They do care about sexual assault. If it wasn't for that. He would ALREADY be confirmed.

It's well established that if you throw to much at the public or a jury, they begin to stop listening. I know that is NOT what you want.

But if the leadership start pradeling on about drinking 35 years ago, public will lose interest and they vote will be held and he'll be confirmed.

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. Yes. He was a teen when he chose to drink illegally

He is a Supreme Court nominee now when he chooses to lie about that.

[clementine613]

36. So he should get away with it?

[fescuerescue]

38. No. But "should" is a meaningless word

America cares about sexual assault crimes. They really do.

They don't care about 35 year alcohol laws, and trying to focus on 35 year old liquor laws instead of sexual assault is kinda dumb.

[clementine613]

43. Why does it have to be one or the other?

n/t

[fescuerescue]

44. Because you can't boil the ocean.

Be my guest.

DO an investigation and find where all the Supreme Court justices have broken a drinking, speeding or red light law sometime in the past, and then petitition to get them impeached.

Heck, go after all the Senators and Congressmen to. lets clean up washington!

[clementine613]

45. I'm perfectly fine impeaching Roberts, Thomas, Alito and Gorsuch.

I don't care if it's for jaywalking.

[fescuerescue]

48. And I'll give you a thumbs up

After you finish that project.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. I went to UMASS during that period

(class of '83) and when I started, they had just raised the drinking age in MA from 18 to 20 in '79. In '84 there was a national law passed (and signed by Raygun) with all sorts of caveats (loss of a percentage of highway funds for non-compliance) but that essentially raised the age to 21.

So I have started harping on the media not calling what he did "illegal" drinking.

[Iggo]

11. I drank illegally at 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20.

Didn't make me try to rape anyone.

Because it's not about alcohol.

It's a about being a rapist.

I'm not one. He is one.

[pnwmom]

12. I agree, it doesn't make him a rapist. But saying he drank legally under 21 makes him a LIAR.

It wasn't legal for him either in high school or in college till he turned 21, midway through junior year.

[onenote]

28. If he had admitted he drank illegally while in high school

would that mean he isn't lying about the assault on Dr. Ford? Of course not. So what does dwelling on this "lie" do, particularly since it was a carefully parsed statement in which he did not say he personally was legal, just that "seniors" were legal (suggesting that beer had been purchased legally) and adding an acknowledgement that he did some cringeworthy things.

Not exactly a forthcoming statement, and too clever by half, but probably not an actionable lie either.

Also, the title of your OP seems to suggest that he should be pilloried for having drunk illegally. Clearly you don't believe that and neither does anyone else. It probably would have been better if you had focused on the dissembling aspect of his statements in your title.

[Maeve]

22. IF he were honest--big IF--he would admit to under-age drinking

Lots of us did it, particularly those of us who started college at 17 or who lived in states/times where the law said you had to be 21 ( on both counts). And oooohhhh....some of us even smoke the odd joint or tasted the strange mushroom as young idjits. Fess up and get on with it.

But don't tell us you were a pure widdle innocent when the facts are out there. That's perjury, your 'honor' and you know that is going to bite you in the ass one day.

[Dorian Gray]

24. It was still

legal to drink in DC. They lived on the border of DC.

This is nitpicking about nothing.

I think catching him out in lies about his harassment/assault and proclivities is a better use of our time. And he comes off looking like an asshole without gotcha-ing about this.

[BumRushDaShow]

27. "They lived on the border of DC."

OFFS.

Sorry it doesn't work that way. Montgomery County, MD does NOT equal Washington D.C. It's not "nothing". It is lying. Normal people will chuckle and say - yeah I was underage drinking like many others so it was what it was. But he didn't do that.

He is claiming that he is some kind of "George Washington" who "never told a lie" and was an innocent "virgin" who was chaste and never broke any law so boo hoo why is everybody always picking on me?. It's all a bullshit narrative.

[Dorian Gray]

32. Gosh

OFFS.....

This story has no traction. But the continuing accusations do. Why? Because that's where the real scandal lies. And where his lies will or won't catch up with him. And where he will (HOPEFULLY) be disqualified.

[BumRushDaShow]

34. The rules have changed.

And if this story stays out there, the school can be liable, let alone the parents. It's always been a "hush hush" thing that has gone on for many many decades but it is being exposed and includes PTBs from wealthy familes, who will do everything they can to shut it down - including throwing Kavanaugh under the bus.

[duforsure]

29. He was also possibly a part of a lot more

Giving or getting booze to ply younger girls with to get them drunk with for possible gang rapes of underage women who they got drunk, or drugged. When the FBI does investigate , which they will eventually , they'll find he broke the law , and promoted horrific crimes against women possibly. Does trump and the kgop want a serial gang rapist , a sexual predator on the bench, yes , for self protection from Mueller. They could care less what he's done to women, or others. His past will be exposed and then they'll be hurt even worse then they already are . He won't get in , or they'll never see the end of this , ever. Way too many American people are very strongly against him getting onto the bench, and should be removed from serving on any bench anywhere. He's a liar and corrupt. trump and the kgop are too.