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kpete

(71,867 posts)
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 10:16 AM Aug 2012

Paul Ryan traded on insider information to avoid 2008 crash!

It should probably come as no surprise to anyone that someone like Paul Ryan would trade on inside information gained through his position as a congressman to line his pockets, but this particular instance is especially egregious. Ryan attended a closed meeting with congressional leaders, Bush's Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on September 18, 2008. The purpose of the meeting was to disclose the coming economic meltdown and beg Congress to pass legislation to help collapsing banks.

Instead of doing anything to help, Ryan left the meeting and on that very same day Paul Ryan sold shares of stock he owned in several troubled banks and reinvested the proceeds in Goldman Sachs, a bank that the meeting had disclosed was not in trouble. This is the guy Republicans want one heartbeat away from the presidency? He seems more than a little shady to me.

Have a look at Ryan's financial disclosure form for 2008--you can click on each page to enlarge them. The "Transactions" section begins on page 12--scroll through and look at all the trades Paul Ryan made on "9-18-08":

HERE ARE THE TRANSACTIONS!:
http://www.the-richmonder.com/2012/08/paul-ryan-traded-on-insider-information.html

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Paul Ryan traded on insider information to avoid 2008 crash! (Original Post) kpete Aug 2012 OP
IF Martha Stewart went to jail certainly Ryan is owed Jail time. Justice wanted Aug 2012 #1
Not really atreides1 Aug 2012 #2
Seems like a double standard where rules applied to Martha but not Ryan. So can I at least Justice wanted Aug 2012 #15
A wholly dishonest, devious, and despicable person imv with more than a dash of indepat Aug 2012 #44
Are you absolutely 100% certain that insider trading statutes do not apply here? If so, coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #19
Because Congress members were immune from insider trading law. JackRiddler Aug 2012 #50
Comment from a securities attorney to an coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #51
So what was the hullabaloo about earlier this year... JackRiddler Aug 2012 #52
That's actually a damned good question. I'm not an attorney coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #53
"political intelligence" is not considered insider trading by the feds Major Nikon Aug 2012 #28
That matters in terms of jail, not so much in the campaign JHB Aug 2012 #33
Make it law to forbid insider trading by elected representatives and name it for Ryan. SleeplessinSoCal Aug 2012 #56
Did she not get convicted of lying/covering up dixiegrrrrl Aug 2012 #12
Only if he lied about it under oath salib Aug 2012 #21
Martha Stewart did not go to jail for insider trading nichomachus Aug 2012 #35
Fuck yeah. Her jail term was bullshit IMO. They should run Ryan in, too. Zalatix Aug 2012 #49
Big K&R tk2kewl Aug 2012 #3
K & R AzDar Aug 2012 #4
KnR KansDem Aug 2012 #5
Lawyers? ellie_belly Aug 2012 #6
Not a lawyer, but former broker Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #40
it looks like they were periodic transactions Enrique Aug 2012 #7
What do you think. In your opinion, do they rise to 'doing something wrong' forgetting legal distinc stevenleser Aug 2012 #8
they don't appear to be related to the meeting Enrique Aug 2012 #9
Also based on the transactions, he was regularly trading many of those stocks throughout the year. cbdo2007 Aug 2012 #14
Note, too, that September 18 was awfully late to be selling bank stocks. mahatmakanejeeves Aug 2012 #23
SEC gave him a pat on the back, US SEC is horrible uponit7771 Aug 2012 #10
My god, how much stock does that clown own? 1-Old-Man Aug 2012 #11
If it makes anyone feel any better, it looks like he lost money every time he traded GS stock cbdo2007 Aug 2012 #13
Wow, he did even worse on C stock in 2008, literally losing on every trade. cbdo2007 Aug 2012 #16
Congress can do no wrong. And they legislate it that way. nt valerief Aug 2012 #17
NO WONDER ROMNEY LOVES HIM DearAbby Aug 2012 #18
maybe that explains his 'two years of returns' Bluerthanblue Aug 2012 #20
This won't get any airplay SansACause Aug 2012 #22
K&R! Need to keep this one kicked, imho. This could be Romney's coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #24
George W Bush did the same thing and he never got into trouble. Hubert Flottz Aug 2012 #25
Yep. raouldukelives Aug 2012 #29
I am just SO shocked. HopeHoops Aug 2012 #26
POINT OF INFORMATION 90-percent Aug 2012 #27
News on Sept 19, 2008 - Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings Kablooie Aug 2012 #30
A perfectly balanced ticket BlueStreak Aug 2012 #31
Nothing new. grok Aug 2012 #32
this type of thing goes on regularly - they are all thiefs 2Design Aug 2012 #34
This is dynamite. Romney's Gordon Gekko problem just got more Gordon Gekkoey Ian_rd Aug 2012 #36
k & r DonRedwood Aug 2012 #37
How much time passed between that meeting and the public getting knowledge of these Banks' health? Ian_rd Aug 2012 #38
In a normal country, this kind of thing would lead to jail time Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 #39
Business Insider article on this, already getting a lot of tweets and Facebook recs: highplainsdem Aug 2012 #41
kick Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 #47
This really should be a major issue. WI_DEM Aug 2012 #42
kick usregimechange Aug 2012 #43
Notice he made the trades even before the meeting with Paulsen BlueStreak Aug 2012 #45
all crooks ! april Aug 2012 #46
another crooked fucking GOP bastard! Bozita Aug 2012 #48
He made the trades before the 7 pm meeting, but that doesn't let him off the hook. pnwmom Aug 2012 #54
I hope someone can put a dollar amount to it tomm2thumbs Aug 2012 #55
I did this above. Look for my posts. He lost money on most of his stock trades related to this. cbdo2007 Aug 2012 #61
Was this debunked? n/t Lebam in LA Aug 2012 #57
No Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2012 #58
if this story is verifiable in a rock solid way - this can be very, very big Douglas Carpenter Aug 2012 #59
That's a sweet one, kpete! johan helge Aug 2012 #60
This needs to run as an ad in all swing states! nt SunSeeker Aug 2012 #62

atreides1

(16,039 posts)
2. Not really
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 10:20 AM
Aug 2012

At the time there was no law preventing him from doing what he did...and the rules that applied to Martha Stewart don't apply to Ryan!

Justice wanted

(2,657 posts)
15. Seems like a double standard where rules applied to Martha but not Ryan. So can I at least
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:03 AM
Aug 2012

feel like he is an underhanded snake on what he did or it was all above board?

indepat

(20,899 posts)
44. A wholly dishonest, devious, and despicable person imv with more than a dash of
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 01:09 PM
Aug 2012

disingenuousness. How the fine people of his district could continue to send him to Washington boggles the mind.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
19. Are you absolutely 100% certain that insider trading statutes do not apply here? If so,
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:15 AM
Aug 2012

upon what do you base your certainty?

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
50. Because Congress members were immune from insider trading law.
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 02:52 PM
Aug 2012

Until recently:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/politics/insider-trading-ban-for-lawmakers-clears-congress.html

The idea I suppose was that they can't do Congress business without hearing a lot of inside information, so they shouldn't be punished for that if it appears to bleed through into their financial dealings.

Anyway, it's banned now but would have been legal in 2008.

Of course it was still unethical and worthy of condemnation.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
51. Comment from a securities attorney to an
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 02:56 PM
Aug 2012

article on Slate by Matthew Yglesias:

"From a lawyer with 25 years of practice...about 17 of those in financial services regulation and the private sector:

Slate is incorrect--no-one is exempt from insider trading laws, not Congress, not Martha Stewart. At issue is whether or not Mr. Ryan ACTED UPON material, non-public information. IF this article is true, he engaged in two potentially illegal transactions....selling stock in at-risk banks and investing in Goldman Sachs. One does not even have to profit from the material, non-public information (although its much easier to prosecute if the insider did profit). Again IF TRUE, he had direct insider knowledge, not then available to the public, through an in camera briefing as a result of his position in Congress. Highly doubtful the SEC and/or Justice Department would investigate this allegation, since they would most likely be accused of political motivation...Sad..."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/08/13/paul_ryan_used_inside_info_to_profit_from_the_financial_crisis.html?wp_login_redirect=0

As I read this, Ryan's congressional position did not give him immunity from insider trading laws.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
52. So what was the hullabaloo about earlier this year...
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 03:00 PM
Aug 2012

when they passed a ban on insider trading by Congress members?

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
53. That's actually a damned good question. I'm not an attorney
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 03:03 PM
Aug 2012

nor a specialist in securities trading policies, so I'm going to have to punt until I can ask the person on Slate who made the comment.

JHB

(37,122 posts)
33. That matters in terms of jail, not so much in the campaign
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:20 PM
Aug 2012

Hold them to their own standard. Remember the stink they made about Hillary Clinton and and her "suspiciously" good pork futures trades? That's used pig slop compared to this, and if it was legal it's just a bigger outrage and flags (hell, a whole fireworks show) Republican hypocrisy and venality.

salib

(2,116 posts)
21. Only if he lied about it under oath
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:21 AM
Aug 2012

And, thus, only if someone asked him under oath. Not gonna happen.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
35. Martha Stewart did not go to jail for insider trading
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:36 PM
Aug 2012

If they put people who engaged in insider trading in jail, we wouldn't have enough jails. That's how the market works.

Martha Stewart, like Leona Helmsley, got put in jail for letting the cat out of the bag. We're not supposed to know that the rich don't pay taxes and that the stock market is rigged. Martha left a voicemail, for crying out loud. That's not how it's done. It's done with a wink and a nod, a whispered conversation, etc.

There are only two things that will get a rich person put in jail

1. Stealing from other rich people (Bernie Madoff). You can steal from poor people, but not rich people
2. Letting the cat out of the bag.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
40. Not a lawyer, but former broker
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:52 PM
Aug 2012

I think it's horribly sleazy. Typically the definition of "insider trading" is limited to material information about a specific stock. Coming out of a meeting in which the Fed Chair says, "We're completely fucked" and selling all or most of your stocks probably wouldn't meet the standard for insider trading. It's neither material nor specific.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
8. What do you think. In your opinion, do they rise to 'doing something wrong' forgetting legal distinc
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 10:47 AM
Aug 2012

distinctions?

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
9. they don't appear to be related to the meeting
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 10:55 AM
Aug 2012

the person doing this analysis says 9/18/08 is the key date. But for every transaction on that date, there is a corresponding transaction on a previous date, such as 8/18/08, that makes it look like some kind of scheduled transaction.

Regarding doing something wrong, from what I know of Paul Ryan and people in his class, I wouldn't be surprised if every one of these transactions was wrong in some way. But to me, from these forms, it does not look like those transactions are tied to that meeting.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
14. Also based on the transactions, he was regularly trading many of those stocks throughout the year.
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:03 AM
Aug 2012

See my analysis of GS stock in my other post on here. Working on Citigroup now.

mahatmakanejeeves

(56,713 posts)
23. Note, too, that September 18 was awfully late to be selling bank stocks.
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:24 AM
Aug 2012

I'm currently reading The Lost Bank, which is about the collapse of Washington Mutual. The stock was already down to about $2 per share by that time. Early in the decade, it had traded at about $46 per share or so. The low for stocks in that era was hit on or about March 9, 2009, so there was still some carnage to come, but the money was mostly gone from bank stocks by mid-September.

P.S. I'm linking to Amazon solely because there will be reviews of the book there. I have no financial stake in Amazon, and if it's a violation of DU rules, to make such a link, please let me know. I can revise the link. Thanks.

Disclaimer: I held shares of Washington Mutual, so it's personal.

1-Old-Man

(2,667 posts)
11. My god, how much stock does that clown own?
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 10:59 AM
Aug 2012

Page after page after page of listing of stocks he owns, partnerships he is associated with, dividends after dividends after dividends. That clown's performing inside of every ring.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
13. If it makes anyone feel any better, it looks like he lost money every time he traded GS stock
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:01 AM
Aug 2012

Price Shares Net
GS P 1/22/2008 $190.69 52 $9,915.88
GS S 2/22/2008 $177.71 52 $9,240.92
GS P 3/24/2008 $178.88 56 $10,000.00
GS P 6/16/2008 $182.09 55 $10,000.00
GS S 8/18/2008 $160.04 111 $17,764.44
GS P 9/18/2008 $108.00 93 $10,000.00
GS S 10/20/2008 $121.50 31 $3,766.50
GS S 11/5/2008 $87.43 31 $2,710.33
GS S 12/8/2008 $77.15 31 $2,391.65

P = purcahse, S = Sale. Dates and Closing prices are real. I assumed he purchased $10,000 worth each time and then sold a dispersion of those shares at each sale.

I agree that he shouldn't be allowed for insider trading, but it makes me personally feel better that he didn't make a killing on it at least.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
16. Wow, he did even worse on C stock in 2008, literally losing on every trade.
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:09 AM
Aug 2012

Price Shares Net
Citigroup P 2/22/2008 $251.20 39 $9,796.80
Citigroup S 3/24/2008 $232.70 39 $9,075.30
Citigroup P 4/24/2008 $257.60 38 $9,788.80
Citigroup S 6/16/2008 $208.30 38 $7,915.40
Citigroup P 7/17/2008 $179.70 55 $9,883.50
Citigroup S 8/18/2008 $176.20 28 $4,933.60
Citigroup S 9/18/2008 $166.50 27 $4,495.50
Citigroup P 10/20/2008 $150.90 66 $9,959.40
Citigroup S 12/8/2008 $84.70 66 $5,590.20


Haha, even after he sold on 9/18 he bought again on 10/20 and then lost $4,000 when he sold that one in December. He is a terrible stock trader. I'm guessing he had someone in congress telling him he should do it cause he could make tons of money, so he was trying and ended up being really bad at it.

Bluerthanblue

(13,669 posts)
20. maybe that explains his 'two years of returns'
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:17 AM
Aug 2012

decision. I thought his decision to only release the same returns that Romney 'will' be releasing was just so that he wouldn't best Mitt- but maybe it isn't as simple as that.

When he was asked how many returns he would release, he seemed uneasy... and looked to Mitt while answering. That seemed wierd to me.

Hubert Flottz

(37,726 posts)
25. George W Bush did the same thing and he never got into trouble.
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:30 AM
Aug 2012

Laws are for poor people and democrats. "Justice" is for folks with lots of cash!

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
29. Yep.
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:46 AM
Aug 2012

Police in the United States spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every day running undercover operations in every little city. All of them are directed at the lowest rungs in our society. Officers working for months undercover to bust people for $50 bags of grass.

The day I see them spending that money to plant undercover officers in board rooms and golf courses. Giving people helpful inside information and then busting them. That is the day I will cheer them for defending us from the true criminals.

90-percent

(6,817 posts)
27. POINT OF INFORMATION
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 11:41 AM
Aug 2012

It is my understanding that it is PERFECTLY LEGAL for members of Congress to engage in INSIDER TRADING!

Simply put, they aren't subject to the same set of laws as THE LITTLE PEOPLE.

-90% Jimmy

Kablooie

(18,547 posts)
30. News on Sept 19, 2008 - Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:10 PM
Aug 2012

WASHINGTON — It was a room full of people who rarely hold their tongues. But as the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, laid out the potentially devastating ramifications of the financial crisis before congressional leaders on Thursday night, there was a stunned silence at first.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/washington/19cnd-cong.html

----

Notice the announcement happened in the evening and Ryan's trades happened earlier in the day so there couldn't have been any connection.

 

grok

(550 posts)
32. Nothing new.
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:16 PM
Aug 2012




http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/members-of-congress-trade-in-companies-while-making-laws-that-affect-those-same-firms/2012/06/23/gJQAlXwVyV_story.html?hpid=z1



Congress Riddled With Insider Trading
Study find 1-in-8 Congress trades pose potential conflict of interest


The Washington Post has pored over the 45,000 stock transactions made by members of Congress between 2007 and 2010, in a mammoth investigation into just how bad the government's insider trading problem is. The result—130 members of Congress or their families bought and sold up to $218 million in 323 companies registered to lobby on legislation that comes before their committees. That amounts to 5,531 trades, or nearly one in eight (although the Post notes that not all these trades are insider trading, only that the trades represent potential conflicts of interest).

It is also a problem split fairly evenly between the parties, with 68 Democrats and 62 Republicans. Sen. John Kerry had the highest value of stocks that overlap with companies that appeared before him, between $42 million and $86 million, while Texas Rep. Michael McCaul had the highest number of overlapping trades. Only six senators use ethics-committee approved blind trusts, and the House does not even keep track. "Members need to bend over backwards to show people they are there for the good of the country," said former Rep. Brian Baird, who co-authored a failed bill to stop insider trading in Congress in 2006, adding "if there is an appearance of an impropriety, there just might be an impropriety.

Ian_rd

(2,124 posts)
36. This is dynamite. Romney's Gordon Gekko problem just got more Gordon Gekkoey
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:45 PM
Aug 2012

This perfectly meshes with the Democratic portrayal of Romney as a get-what-you-can-by-screwing-others type rich a-hole. This news is explosive and if the Obama Campaign shows as much skill with this as they have with Romney's taxes, this just ain't goin' away.

Ian_rd

(2,124 posts)
38. How much time passed between that meeting and the public getting knowledge of these Banks' health?
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:49 PM
Aug 2012

highplainsdem

(48,650 posts)
41. Business Insider article on this, already getting a lot of tweets and Facebook recs:
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:53 PM
Aug 2012
http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-ryan-insider-trading-2012-8

Republican Vice Presidential Pick Paul Ryan sold shares in a number of financial companies including Citigroup, General Electric, Wachovia, and JP Morgan Chase on the same day as then-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke held a closed meeting with congressional leaders during the financial crisis.

At issue are the sale of troubled banks like Wachovia and Citi, as well as General Electric's struggling capital unit, dated on September 18, 2008 — the same day as the meeting with Bernanke and Paulson according to the Associated Press.

Ryan's 2008 financial disclosures, which are publicly available on OpenSecrets.org, were analyzed by Business Insider (Via The Richmonder).

The sales total as much as $60,000 — although they could be considerably less. The House disclosure forms do not require specific values from members.

-snip-
 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
45. Notice he made the trades even before the meeting with Paulsen
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 01:12 PM
Aug 2012

So he was trading on extra-deep insider information, and wanted to make damn sure he got his trades done before the pack moved.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
55. I hope someone can put a dollar amount to it
Mon Aug 13, 2012, 08:53 PM
Aug 2012

Would love to know what he horded from the market, and how much it totaled up to in net savings from before-to-after-the-fall.

I'm guessing someone is working on it who knows stocks, but I'm guessing it is a big o'l number and I wonder if Romney has the same sell-date on a bunch of his stocks too.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
61. I did this above. Look for my posts. He lost money on most of his stock trades related to this.
Tue Aug 14, 2012, 10:29 AM
Aug 2012

It's really a non-issue.

johan helge

(1,157 posts)
60. That's a sweet one, kpete!
Tue Aug 14, 2012, 10:03 AM
Aug 2012

Everyone on DU know that Ryan etc. are xxxholes. But info like this is needed, to make most people aware of it.
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