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(1,020 posts)Thus, habeas corpus has already been suspended, or the military is simply on a "road trip". Where's the nearest bar, Sir? lol
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)the military can go wherever, but in order to exercise police powers, they would need to suspend posse comitatus, not necessarily habeas.
The reality is "the military" will primarily end up being NG Soldiers, and the military will be used in a support role to the Border Patrol because of posse comitatus, and this is all flash and no substance per usual.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)qazplm135
(7,447 posts)Someone else gets it.
malaise
(268,968 posts)It's fake shit
getagrip_already
(14,742 posts)not a police action.
Thus if the military arrests anyone, either habeus corpus exists or it doesn't. Chances are all they will do is stand around and look through binoculars. They aren't going to move to intercept civilians, despite orders.
ICE will continue to do the law breaking.
They are talking about suspending habeus so they don't have to bring any charges, and can hold the people indefinately and without the right of court appeal.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)it's whether or not you have to then later present them in court.
It's intended for either an insurrection, or if the court system is not working (usually because of said insurrection or in case of an invasion).
So no, you don't have to suspend habeas.
You DO have to suspend posse comitatus.
Spoiler alert, neither will happen.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Spoiler alert, neither will happen..."
Those faith-based prophecies are bemusing as always... but the rational mind refers to them instead as 'guess-work."
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)No, this isn't even the first time he's "ordered troops to the border" so I don't need "faith."
I just need a functioning memory, and the knowledge that Trump is one of the most predictable people in existence.
getagrip_already
(14,742 posts)Once they are arrested, or taken into custody, they have the right to be charged and appear before a judge within a specified timeframe. That is habeus corpus.
Suspending it means they don't have to be charged, and can be held indefinitely. It has nothing to do with the military.
But the posse comitatis act only applies to the army and air force being used for domestic law enforcement. It has nothing to do with habeous corpus. The PC act was originally passed after the civil war to prevent the continuing occupation of southern states by the army (the air force was added much later, but the navy and marines were not).
The pc act doesn't apply to the marines, navy or coast guard. They aren't a part of the law, but their own internal policies forbid them nonetheless (but those exist at the potus' pleasure).
Even ignoring that,PC only applies to domestic law enforcement. It was never meant to apply to defending the country against attack, even on domestic soil (otherwise, once an invading force crossed the border the military would be useless).
Framing it as an invasion gets around the act. That would eventually have to be determined by the courts. As would suspension of HC.
But this administration seems to believe the scotus will back him in these actions. I wonder why?
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)it's just done administratively.
Again, it's not going to happen. Not because he's not a bad guy, but because this is all a show for the election in two weeks.
getagrip_already
(14,742 posts)The coast guard routinely performs law enforcement actions, even within the 12 mile limit. They have the right under law to board any vessel in navigable water at any time without any reason. If they observe a crime, say BUI, they can make an arrest and perform searches. Believe me, they very much act in the capacity of domestic law enforcement.
But the navy and marines do have administrative restraints; but those can be changed by executive order. The cg restraints are really just distinctions in policy.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)it's literally the example of the exception. I have no idea why you keep restating the exact same thing I'm saying as if I didn't already say it.
First of all, they aren't just sending the Navy and Marines to the border in some sinister attempt to bypass those restraints.
Pretty sure a large chunk of those folks are going to be Army, and you cannot remove that with an executive order.
And no one is going to do that executive order. The Navy and Air Force wouldn't want it, and Congress would simply pass a new law with pretty bipartisan appeal applying it to all services not the CG.
Talking about this as if it's going to happen is, charitably, silly.
We have seen this before. He's already sent "troops to the border." He's got troops there right now. And guess who else the PCA doesn't apply to? National Guard troops. And THEY aren't doing anything but supporting the border patrol. If he wanted to have folks arrest people literally, he could have the NG troops there now do it. And sending 800 troops? That's basically a battalion. For the entire southern border.
This is simply riling up his base. Based on past practice, based on realities, and based on the current "proposal."
Caliman73
(11,736 posts)They wouldn't be moving there because they have been there for months. This may likely be actual active duty military. Someone needs confirm and challenge it.
.99center
(1,237 posts)@JohnJHarwood
she also refused to rule out suspension of posse comitatus restrictions on deployment of US military to enfore laws within American borders
Link to tweet
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)marble falls
(57,080 posts)Governor of Kentucky was one of the first people imprisoned in 1861 after Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus laws. He was a Whig/Know Nothing Party member. He was anti-secession and pro-slavery and wanted Kentucky to remain neutral.
One of his nephews from Ohio was executed and given the Congressional Medal of Honor for his part in the the Great Train chase/Andersonville raid.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)marble falls
(57,080 posts)and another nephew was John Turner Morehead Governor of Kentucky around 1820 or so. James Motley Morehead's grandson founded Union Carbide and left the equivelent of $120 million for the state university.
The Grandfather of James Turner Morehead and another son are memorialized in North Carolina as revolutionary war vets, the elder as a Col and the younger as a Capt.
We got here from Scotland in 1740 in Maryland.
What the heck happened to me????