Bernie Sanders needs to sail off into the sunset

[scheming daemons]

A. He is not a Democrat, he is an independent. If he isn't going to join us, he needs to stay out of Democratic politics.

B. He only serves to divide Democrats.

C. Candidates he endorsed did horribly on Tuesday.

D. His comment that being uncomfortable voting for a black person does not make someone racist is ridiculous and disqualifying in Democratic politics. It literally IS the embodiment of racism to be uncomfortable voting for a person because they're black.

He needs to sit in the senate, be a back-bencher, and NOT enter the Democratic primaries in 2020. The worst thing for the Democrats would be for him to run again.

The GOP uses him... hell, the Russian trolls use him... to divide Democrats.


Go retire, Bernie. You harm the country more than you help it.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

1. Or, dare I say

He needs to go knit.

[YessirAtsaFact]

126. Down south, the old time saying was "Tend to your knitting"

Bernie would do well to tend to HIS knitting.

Meanwhile, I'm now following my personal policy of trashing this thread. Any thread involving Bernie Sanders or Michael Moore is dead to me.

[DemocracyMouse]

140. Bernie, like other progressives, is fallible but searching for solutions.

Take his input as you would take any American’s input, with an eye to critiquing it. Use it, modify it, or don’t use it. It’s a discourse people.

But this Bernie obsession (on both sides) is extremely funny.

I give the man a lot of credit for some things, but not all. He has underscored the increasingly top-heavy nature of our economy/politics. Warren, Clinton et al have pretty much agreed, but through tactful repetition Bernie made it a normal and important part of the national conversation. He has pushed harder than most for single payer healthcare. I’d like to see more Democrats exercise their freedom of speech in the same way – to repeat a good theme so the media “brain” starts processing it. Good on him for the pop culture tactics. (Why let the Newt Gingrich’s and Carl Rove’s and Trumps have all the fun?)

If he made a poor choice of words and was misinterpreted, maybe look more carefully at what he was really trying to say. As I recall he was on the front lines along with thousands of others during the civil rights era. There’s a photo of him being arrested or somesuch to prove it. Plenty of our “approved” Democrats sat out the civil rights marches.

But again, stop obsessing. We need to focus on the issues, not the politicians.

[peace frog]

214. Thank you

Agreed.

[Paka]

220. And I thank you as well.

It's sad there are so many Bernie haters. He's a fighter for democratic values and we need all the help we can get.

[blueinredohio]

227. I also thank you and agree.

[warmfeet]

228. Damn straight.

This appears to be the thread where Democrats attempt to become Republicans.

I will have no part in that shit.

I am a DEMOCRAT, not an other hater.

Shame does not become us.

Find allies, find coalitions, find friends.

Enemies are easy to find, friends are much more difficult to find.

Knock that shit out!

[Paka]

232. Absolutely!

Spot on.

[Martin Eden]

296. Wholeheartedly Agree (except the "funny" part)

The intense focus on the person instead of the ideas is a major problem on our politics.

[The Wizard]

304. correct

We have to look at his issues we embrace and ignore the the divisive chatter.

[trueblue2007]

181. I'm tired of Sanders butting in .... he is not even a Democrat. Butt out Bernie.

Please, unless you intend to STAY a democrat, stop bashing our Dems.

[DemocracyMouse]

217. Are you interested in just having a club?

What about also debating policy? I mean what’s the point of having a club in the first place? So we can say who is in and who is out? That doesn’t leave room for discussion and synthesis. It doesn’t leave room for new scientific data as the country and conditions evolve.

[trueblue2007]

219. a CLUB ????????? what in the world are you talking about? I didn't say anything about a club.

i am echoing comments made by LOTS and LOTS of members on this website. Don't single me out.

[Demsrule86]

316. We have a party not a club and Sen. Sanders could join...but chooses not to.

[True Blue American]

346. Right!

[Demsrule86]

378. Anyone who chooses can join.

[olegramps]

127. Here is what Michael Moore predicted in 2016: Trump wins.

Here is what I thought. Please be welcome to disagree and I am open for an commentary. Essentially, that Sanders and Trump were on the same page regarding the trade agreements that were both in effect and proposed. Clinton had been in favor of the Transpacific agreement until it became unpopular. (I supported it only if changes to protection of our rights and full transparency were added. The same with the NAFTA.) Sanders has been a advocate for stiff tariffs just as was Trump. With our leaving the table this has left China totally in control and they are rapidly increasing their influence throughout not only Asia but South America as well. In regard to tariffs, the Transpacific agreement would have eliminated 18000 tariffs.

In effect this left Clinton being opposed on two important issues by her opponents, one internal and on external. I see very little basic difference between what Trump has done in regard to trade than what Sanders proposed. Every economists that I read said that reckless use of tariffs would result in damaging trade wars. Well, this has become a reality. In addition to being ineffective at best it disregards the plain fact the biggest treat to good paying jobs that didn't require even a high school education as being replaced by automation. It is not outsourcing.

[Hortensis]

173. +1. Anti-Democratic leftists hide their animosity

behind high-sounding claims of supporting Democratic goals and regret that Democrats are all such corrupt hypocrites that good government and progress can never be achieved if Democrats are in power.

Hopefully as some on the right become wiser about who right-wing extremists really are and what they're capable of, more on the left will come out of this poisonous period better understanding left-wing zealots and the destructive roles they also play.

There's no point in telling Moore, Stein, Nader, Sanders that attacking the mainstream progressives they despise and resent is NOT the way to achieve progressive goals. Those who define their righteous superiority by their dissension from the mainstream truly cannot see that. They're not wired ot.

We need more people to recognize both the irrationality of zealous personality and the enormous dishonesty required to maintain irrational beliefs so they aren't impressed and fooled by the strength of irrational conviction.

[True Blue American]

288. That post

Is how I feel. I am sick of far left zealots telling us in the middle what they think we should do. I am sick of the criticism that only does harm.

I despise Nader, Stein and Sanders. They do not help, they live in their self aggrandizing world just like Trump. They have only harmed Democrats.

[Hortensis]

300. Agree. People who feel Democrats need all the criticism

we can get should look at how Elizabeth Warren does it. She's a proven highly effective progressive who does it through the power of the Democratic Party. Our senate leaders have Warren on track to top leadership because she's an iconoclast without obstructive radicalism who works very well with her colleagues.

She also happens to have always been a moderate progressive conservative and has one of the most overall conservative records among our senators, although all of them fall left of center. She switched to fighting for her progressive goals through the Democratic Party from Republican because the GOP had become extreme and corrupt, not because she had a personality transplant.

Warren sometimes pushes for what are cast as radical goals because they're seen "beyond the box" in the current moment. But she's not one of those who are radical by personality, those whose rejection of and inability to work effectively with existing power structures mean they aren't the ones who achieve progressive goals.

In any case, Warren often feels Democrats can do more and better and sometimes chooses to say so in public. I'm not always pleased with more criticism in an era when we're smothered under blizzards of lies, but she does it as a supportive Democratic insider intending to achieve a positive purpose, unlike those others never oppositional to defeat or replace. And that's all the difference in the world.

[betsuni]

301. +1

[True Blue American]

308. You can very easily

Remind others of how they can be better without being rude ude and screaming.

Elizabeth does that just fine. She also shows great compassion. Remember her bringing donuts to the sit in in Congress? That was classy.

I am pretty sure the new wave of women in the House are going to bring changes. I am so looking forward to that.

The days of the angry old white men in Congress is fading fast.

[Hortensis]

309. +1000. You bet. House women up to @98 from 84,

85 Democrats and 13 Repubs so far.

For the senate, 14 women --10 of them Democrats -- will join the 10 female incumbents, for a total of 24, almost a quarter.

Hopefully these numbers will now have passed the tipping point for power. At least the days of congresswomen needing to form a support group were already past, but those 4 female Democrats on the senate judiciary committee were not typical. Most of the more powerful committees have 1 or no female Democrats and no female Republicans.

Looking forward to the pictures of the new Republican and Democratic caucuses.

[True Blue American]

324. Thank you for the new count.

CNN just said 100 women. That is getting up to One fourth of the House.

I can not wait to see the new Congress in action.

[Kentonio]

348. Awww bless

It must be terrible having to listen to half the party actually having a different opinion to you. They should definitely all be silenced immediately so you centrists can lose another election in peace.

[betsuni]

350. "half the party" "so you centrists can lose another election in peace."

[Gothmog]

357. Where do you get this percentage?

[NurseJackie]

375. Half?

It must be terrible having to listen to half the party actually having a different opinion to you.

[NurseJackie]

374. "Those who define their righteous superiority by their dissension from the mainstream..." YES! WOW!

[...] Those who define their righteous superiority by their dissension from the mainstream truly cannot see that. [...]

We need more people to recognize both the irrationality of zealous personality and the enormous dishonesty required to maintain irrational beliefs so they aren't impressed and fooled by the strength of irrational conviction.

Yes! Wow! This! Absolutely perfect analysis and description. Nailed it! Thank you!

[betsuni]

241. +1

[boston bean]

2. He won't release his tax returns, so he won't run.

[dalton99a]

24. +1

[Gothmog]

175. Or he could join trump is suing to invalidate these ballot access laws

I would not be surprise to see sanders and trump join forces to challenge these laws.

[scheming daemons]

5. For what? He isnt a Democrat.

[Dennis Donovan]

20. Admins say he is. Take it up with them...

[scheming daemons]

22. He is objectively not a Democrat

It is right there on his registration.

He is an independent

[SCantiGOP]

46. Thanks for the post, daemons

I’ll add my ‘amen’ to what you said.
Too bad it gave a case of the vapors to some of the folks here.

[Dennis Donovan]

50. Email Skinner and EarlG then...

[Agschmid]

203. It's actually no on his registration.

You’d think by know people would know that.

Yes he is an independent... but it’s not on any kind of voter registration.

[boston bean]

61. Tell that to the bashers of an actual D- Pelosi.

Or the continuous Hillary bashers.

[NurseJackie]

373. That is a rather excellent point you make.

[Adrahil]

64. LOL... c'mon dude.... NT

[DownriverDem]

73. No You

Last edited Sat Nov 10, 2018, 08:38 AM - Edit history (1)

need to wake up and see what Bernie is doing. Get real.

[Wintryjade]

154. Sanders and the letter after his name says he is not democrat.

[DownriverDem]

307. Wake up people

We have a two party system. My side is the Democratic Party. Bernie is a diversion that will not defeat the repubs.

[Wintryjade]

319. That is what I believe.

[Gothmog]

176. The new DNC rules would require sanders to officially join the party to run

sanders would have to join the party and agree to be a member of the party and to run as a democrat in order to comply with DNC rules. I doubt that sanders would agree to do this

[Me.]

56. Well, You're Still Here

[DownriverDem]

70. So many times

I have written that Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party. It really bugs me. He needs to stay a Vermont Senator. Go away Bernie. You and your supporters did not help HRC in 2016. You are not going to help the Dems now either.

[thesquanderer]

115. Terms of Service specifically mention Sanders

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Don't bash Democratic public figures
...
Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

I think posting about his comments about racism (your point D) is appropriate discussion. It's the other superfluous stuff that is problematic ("sail off into the sunset", "only serves to divide", "you harm the country" etc.).

[Caliman73]

142. People are upset. When posts are emotionally influenced they tend to land hard.

I agree that comments like, "sail off..." and the like are not particularly helpful to a discussion, but I understand them because Sanders' rhetoric is in fact divisive in a climate where the Democratic Party made gains, but still faces significant challenges. I supported Sanders in the primary in 2016 despite some of the flaws in his message. I do think that there are some Democratic politicians who have been influenced by the lobbying of large corporations. I also understand that in many of those cases, those corporations are actually constituents of the area where those politicians are serving. Joe Biden has been accused of being too close to the insurance industry. Well, Delaware is a major hub for the insurance industry so there is a great deal of pressure. Sanders was accused of being cozy with the firearms industry as well, because there were firearms manufacturers and other firearms constituency groups that are powerful in Vermont.

I think that there are valid critiques of the Democratic Party, but I think that Sanders spends too much time focusing on those critiques. In this climate, there needs to be a focus on taking the common foe out of power. I don't see a problem with discussing the need for the party to adapt and improve, but Sanders' comments at this point are divisive and they will do damage. He needs to look at the bigger picture right now.

[LiberalLovinLug]

205. "but I think that Sanders spends too much time focusing on those critiques."

He very rarely spends time on critiquing the Democratic Party as a whole. And usually its because of a baited question from a reporter wanting the drama. Also, most of those critiques were at the time of the primaries, where it is perfectly justified, in fact normal, for a candidate to say how he would improve things. But today, he is working hard with them to help push there policies and to fight Trump.

Its just that whenever he does say something critical, constructively I'm sure in his mind, it gets front page here, and is pounced upon by a select but loud group. Some here are willing to throw away all the independent voters, the young voters, the more left of the party voters, just to spurn the man. And I'm not going to suggest there is a double standard in here, but I will keep my opinion of the reason for this to myself.

[Caliman73]

213. Different perspectives.

I can totally accept your perspective. I don't think Sanders is being malicious either, but if he is in-artful in the way he is expressing his critique, then that is something he really has to work on if he wants to win over the majority of Democrats. There is also validity in the concern that he enters and leaves the Democratic Party purposefully and for his advantage.

Ultimately, I think discussions and even disagreements that we may be having in this exchange, can be done without resorting to becoming so upset and dismissive.

[LiberalLovinLug]

265. Thanks for your measured response

I think there is an element of Democrats that have been waiting for a candidate that does want to try new ideas, bold directions. They're not afraid to hear criticism. They felt that in the present climate, around a world that is embracing those least tied to the old political establishment, there was a window of opportunity to have a nominee that would move to enact policy that seem to be deemed too extreme by those pushing for the more cautious traditional way in the party. For reasons I dare not get into here.

Some of those were leftovers from those that nominated Obama expecting a much bolder progressive push from him. Whether that expectation was warranted or not

So those Democrats welcome Sanders thoughts on the party direction. Part of the 48% of delegate support he had at one point. Especially with all the seats lost in the last decade. He is a very popular politician, and is allied with the Democrats. Why wouldn't it be worth it to park the negativity because he's not wearing the right letter, for all the votes he works hard to bring them? Treat him with at least the same respect that national D leaders like Kamala Harris and others that co-sponsor bills with him do.

Sanders is technically supposed to be given as much respect as an official Democrat. And it's disheartening to always see posts involving Sanders filled with insults and conspiracy theories, without consequences.

[Caliman73]

267. Emotions can get in the way.

I think that people are reeling from the political losses in the last few cycles and are on edge to the point where any critique is seen as a fundamental attack. Hopefully this cycle's significant wins can start to ease some of the tensions and further wins in 2020 can heal some of the divide.

[LiberalLovinLug]

323. Yup. Let's hope so

Lets do this as one big tent.

For all of Sanders critiques on the party he never abandons them. He still supports and works together to win.

I'd just like to see a reciprocal attitude with some in here towards him. What are the benefits of that kind of divisive negativism?

Anyways, cheers!

[7962]

145. You can get a post removed for ANYTHING these days.

Factual or not.
And never get a response

[onit2day]

201. Most of what Bernie Sanders raised during his 2016 primary is now the dem agenda

The man has done so much for the democratic party, has always caucused with them, votes with them, so why some here keep trying to run him down rather than show appreciation is puzzling. So unnecessary when we have so much to discuss and plan for since winning back the house. The issues are important but we keep hearing about personalities. Medicare for all or single payer-Sanders; Free higher education- Sanders; increased MW to a livable wage-Sanders: income inequality- Sanders...expanding SS benefits- Sanders; all democratic principles and part of our platform now but Sanders gave them all oxygen, got our leaders and the press focusing on them, while energizing the base. Are these Bernie put down threads helpful in the least or just plain divisive. I am a life long democrat who stands with Bernie on these issues and proud of him.

[Go Vols]

210. +1

[Power 2 the People]

230. Bernie needs to sail off into the White House.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

260. Agreed!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[mr_liberal]

234. Those are all losers in a general election. The Pres candidates never run on the party platforms. nt

[srobertss]

236. I agree

And we need to nominate anyone who can beat Trump. Trump has such a cult following. I was sure that Trump’s base would fall away two years ago and can’t believe how they have held on. When I saw some Fox anchors praising Oprah Winfrey’s speech for Abrams’ I even thought, “Let’s go with Oprah.” personally, I do like Bernie because he seems to genuinely believe in economic justice and I think that’s a message that cuts through the tribal issues quite effectively. But the bottom line for me is who can beat Trump. I wish Ocasio Cortez could run.

I was listening to someone arguing today that if we want to activate the voters who went for Gillum and Abrams, we need someone radical with an intense ground game. So whoever fits that bill, and then give lots of resources to local infrastructure, people who are a part of the local communities who came out for Obama.

[Ninsianna]

249. Most of what he laid claim to was already in the Dem agenda.

He really has not.

Medicare in any form is not Single Payer by definition.

I stand with Democrats on these Democratic issues and against those who attack Dems while celebrating and embracing racists, Nazis and misogynists.

I am proud of the millions and millions of Democrats who are intelligent enough to vote against these disruptive forces and any candidate they infect.

[Jack Bone]

283. Love Love LOVE this!!

People need to recognize.....thank you for your reply!!

[Wintryjade]

320. Most all were already Dem agenda. Geez, I love the rewriting of history.

[Cha]

6. Why?

[Fullduplexxx]

9. Because in the tos there is a special cant bash bernie rule even though he's not a dem

[Cha]

12. Everything in the OP is

the hard truth.

[Fullduplexxx]

19. I agree but That wont stop some from alerting

[NurseJackie]

256. Yes. Thank you!

[Cha]

258. Heya, Jackie!

[lillypaddle]

54. I almost got banned

for negative Bernie posts a while back. Glad to see the admins have awakened to what a drain he is on the Dems.

[sarah FAILIN]

69. There is also another rule

No talking about alerts or forum moderation.

[Fullduplexxx]

87. Ok more be careful about what you say rules... gtk thanks

[True Blue American]

289. Not from me!;(

I have said many times what I think.

But for now we have the House, we go to work to win back the Senate, WH.

So all of the downers can go along,or move along.

[Wintryjade]

321. Do you think that changes if Dems don't let Sanders run Dem, or he just chooses a 3rd party run?

[handmade34]

8. as a Vermonter

and a constituent of Bernie's, I whole-heartily agree with the post... Bernie is good at being a Senator... he needs to do his job

[True Blue American]

291. I have to ask

What has Bernie done for Vermont in 30 years?

Hearing from those who live there, Vermont is down to 1 Health Insurance company. Has few Doctors, no Industry. The young are moving away for jobs.

After 30 years you should have a thriving State. Or,is Bernie too busy trying to run Democrats?

[Small-Axe]

338. He renamed a couple of post offices.

Does that count?

[True Blue American]

342. I guess you could

Consider that an accomplisment of 30 years.

What really amazes me is to look at his small state, realize the problems not solved how would any one think Bernie is a miracle worker?

[R B Garr]

360. Yes, this is the true story. His primary focus should have been

electing a Democrat for Vermont governor so he can push his agenda through as he insists all Democrats should be doing. Trying to knock off a popular Democratic Senator like Feinstein in my state of California shouldn’t have been a priority. Attack Republicans instead.

[True Blue American]

362. You mean Bernie

Went against Feinstein? I like him less every time he shouts.

[R B Garr]

364. Yes, he said he wouldn't endorse her, as if a woman who

has served California since the 70’s needs his approval or endorsement. It’s truly absurd.

[True Blue American]

370. Well, Bernie

Just had another failure. He did not do well last Tuesday at all.

Time to concntrate on fixing Vermont problems, Bernie. Few doctors, One health insurance company, little manufacturing, young leaving. Fix that, then get back to us.

I swear, Bernie is all bluster, no accomplishments .

[LexVegas]

16. ...

[beastie boy]

42. Ummm... let me alert your alert now

Abuse of process, you know...

[handmade34]

4. Bernie...

needs to do his job... in the Senate, as Vermont's Senator! I will fight against any attempt by him to run for President... that is a very bad idea

[Fullduplexxx]

7. Too bad we cant have an open and honest discussion about this

Du would rather it just fester as an open wound

[Cha]

15. BS is the one who keeps

it open by coming out with his latest.

Link to tweet

[Fullduplexxx]

21. Im in agreement with .********* CENSORED ************

[maddiemom]

195. Off topic, I know; but regarding race: why is Barack Obama black;

while Meghan Markle is bi-racial? Makes me wonder if it matters WHICH parent is black. Otherwise it's always puzzled me, since the days are long gone since one drop of blood counted.

[JI7]

336. she is black also. if she was to run for public office it would be clear she is black

just like Obama.

[brush]

10. I agree that his comment about some whites being uncomfortable voting for a black person...

is disqualifying for Democratic Party candidate. When I read that I thought, WTF does he think racism is if not that?

Yes, it's time for a certain senator to take a seat.

[KPN]

67. Huh? Did he say it wasn't about racism?

Ooops. I checked ... and he did actually say that. Major screw up on his part. Maybe he is actually tone deaf.

I like what he stands for on the economic front, but I'm not sure I'll hive him the level of support I did in 2016.

[brush]

79. I think you better go back and read his comment.

Something along the line of white voters not being comfortable voting for black candidates for the first time were not necessarily racist.

Get real. If that's not racist, what is?

And how am I putting words in his or your mouth by repeating his words?

[KPN]

83. Already did (actually right after I posted). ... and edited my post.

You are right and I was wrong. Bernie screwed up with that one no question.

[Demwolv]

11. Agreed.

As a young person, I hate that Bernie is now the standard that other young voters want the Dems to be. Bernie has great ideas that appeal to young voters, but they need to be educated as to why some of those policies are too idealistic in this country at this time. A move towards Democratic socialism can happen in this country, but we just need to get seats back at this point.

I wish Dems would learn from the tea party movement. A push further away from the center can leave your party unrecognizable...

[EffieBlack]

31. Well said

[Bfd]

34. "A push further away from the center can leave your party unrecognizable..."

Exactly correct.

But THAT is the goal, the mission of the fringe, 3rd Partys & those who loosely claim the Dem label.

The Tea Party also ran as republicans.
How we all doing since that goal was successful?

Thanks for bringing the past into the present as comparison.

[recentevents]

302. Loosely claim the Dem label?

There are a whole lot of people who align with those policies and Bernies efforts. We donate time & money to Democratic candidates. Show up to every election and vote Democratic. How is that "loosely" claiming the Democratic label?

[Bfd]

315. Some refuse to call themselves a Democrat.

Relabelling is a good tell.
Its not difficult to spot.

[George II]

124. I've pointed out a number of times that of 100% of Americans, maybe 15-20% are far right....

....15-20% are far left, the remaining 60-70% are in the "center".

Pushing to either extreme is going to alienate that huge group in the middle.

[aikoaiko]

13. Nah. Bernie and his involvement is necessary.

[Blue_true]

25. So you are ok with the subtle French kiss to racists?

To not vote for a qualified Black person simply because that person is Black, irregardless of policy, is a textbook definition of racist conduct. That Bernie does not see that is appalling.

[LexVegas]

27. Yes, they are ok with it. nt

[aikoaiko]

88. This is what he said.

“I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,” Sanders told The Daily Beast, referencing the close contests involving Andrew Gillum in Florida and Stacey Abrams in Georgia and ads run against the two. “I think next time around, by the way, it will be a lot easier for them to do that.”

Yes, voters' uncomfortableness a black candidate is racism in the larger, higher-level racism like implicit bias, but I think Bernie was using racist as in overtly racist.

I understand why you and anyone would be unhappy with his choice of words. It is a common problem with Bernie.

[MrGrieves]

149. So degrees of racism?

Did you hear there were "good slave owners" too?

[aikoaiko]

178. I realize you're being sarcastic, but it not unreasonable to think in terms of degrees of racism.

And sometimes social sciences break up the continuum between overt and subtle racism.

The implicit bias research showed how people are uncomfortable with blackness and there weren't necessarily aware, but still reacted cognitively and behaviorally.

[TeeYiYi]

211. I think he was walking on eggshells...

...while trying to call out a whole swath of racist liberals and other undecided voters, without alienating them for future elections.

His ad lib attempt at political correctness, while the ballots were still being counted, caused him to wrongfully pad (with 'racists aren't necessarily racist') and screw up the wording of his message. He should've just said what he meant, without worrying about which group of racists he might offend...

I believe he was trying to say that all racists need to check their racism at the door, while voting; and that, in light of what just happened in Georgia and Florida, he's hoping they'll be more likely to do just that, in future elections.

TYY

[mcar]

89. Not so subtle, IMO

[EffieBlack]

32. This black person appreciates your honesty

[Maven]

183. Counterpoint: No, they aren't

[NurseJackie]

259. Affirmation: You're correct.

[Tipperary]

14. K and r.

[OnDoutside]

17. People need to stop thinking in a 2016 mindset.

2016 was Bernie's highpoint, against a Democratic Party candidate who had been demonized for 20 years by the Republicans and far left. He was the a.n. other candidate that a percentage coalesced around, but was still significantly beaten because it is inherently hard to attack the Democratic Party and want to be their nominee.

Bernie will not have that advantage in the coming primaries against a new generation of energetic, little or no baggage, Democrats.

[wryter2000]

48. Well said

[Cha]

57. Thanks for the

cheery thoughts.

[LakeArenal]

118. As a 2016 Bernie supporter,

I wish everyone would just quit Bernie debate.
1. Dem leadership still wants him around for some reason. I don’t get it but they do

2. Michael Moore, Sarandon and Bernie were relevant in 2016 Not anymore. They are all old news.

3. Bernie isn’t relevant anymore because as much of his 2016 message has been absorbed as much as it ever will be. He’s more like an empty jelly jar. We ate the contents. We can use the empty jar for something else but probably not jelly.

4. I don’t know if Joe runs but if Bernie primaried Biden, Bernie would lose bigly. No contest. Joe has a much better standing and message. Maybe every future Dem candidate has a better message. My opinion is yes, any candidate is better than Bernie.

5. Don’t let this stuff divide us.

[OnDoutside]

165. Well,

1. Because he caucuses with the Dems, but no one is happy that he won't join the Party, and are irritated that he attacks the Dems.

2. As I said, attacks on the Democratic Party are never well received, especially by them, after 2016.

3. 100% agree.

4. I hope neither run. I want to see a new generation of Dems step forward, and I think the Dem Primaries are going to show the cream of the new young Democratic Party.

5. Agreed.

[LakeArenal]

179. Re:

1. You and others are irritated. I don’t know why Dem Party leaders want to irritate folks by supporting Bernie. But they do.

2. Pretty much the same response as above. Maybe we should be asking Perez why he keeps supporting Bernie and we keep ignoring Bernie ourselves.

3. Thanks.

4. I’m not saying I support Joe particularly. Younger candidates have a lot of the same goals as Bernie so, by me personally, are way preferable. So all that being said, I have no reason to rail at Bernie Sanders. He has nothing to offer me.

5. Thanks.

[OnDoutside]

202. Re

1. I'm not irritated, I understand why Dem leaders tolerate Bernie, it's mutually beneficial for the most part. If we had a true Democratic majority, he would be largely irrelevant. And indeed, his moment has passed.

[dawg day]

331. Great analogy-

3. Bernie isn’t relevant anymore because as much of his 2016 message has been absorbed as much as it ever will be. He’s more like an empty jelly jar. We ate the contents. We can use the empty jar for something else but probably not jelly.

[True Blue American]

343. I like Joe very much

But this time around we need the new, brilliant young person who focuses on the problems we now face.

The old, who still divide us need to retire.

No more Hillary, Bernie or Joe. They served us well.

I expect Nancy to help get the Democratic machine in the House well functioning, then she can bow out. She has actually said her tenure would be short.

[barbtries]

18. agreed

totally over him. anyone who refuses to acknowledge racism is part of this neverending problem.

[shanny]

23. nope, he doesn't

[Bfd]

26. FFS Bernie, "poor people are not worried about Trump investigations??"

And he knows this how?
Sounds more like he dusted off the old campaign spiel for an odd sort of diversion.

HEY SEN SANDERS, POOR PEOPLE CAN CARE ABOUT LOW WAGES & HEALTHCARE AND THEY DAMN WELL SHOWED UP TO VOTE LAST TUESDAY,
AND LAST NIGHT IN PROTEST THE STOPPING OF MUELLER'S I.N.V.E S.T.I.G.A.T.I.O.N.

People that are poor, & see their healthcare disappearing damned well do see that investigating Trump is the 1st step to having the better life.

Does he think poor people are too dumb to not know they can want, & need BOTH?

Why is multi millionaire Bernie Sanders suddenly the prophet of the poor. Especially since he is dead Wrong.
Man, this spin of his is really concerning.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

40. OH JHC.. BS DOES NOT GET IT.

SOS

[Bfd]

63. No, he apparantly does not . This is so insulting

I have no idea where he's going with this statement.
Wth.

[Cha]

66. I have my guesses..

Black folks who I've read on Twitter are not feelin' it.

Link to tweet

[Bfd]

74. Who does he consider his base with statements like these recent ones?

It is really hard to know who he's talking to.
Baffling, actually.

[Cha]

81. I think we know

who is base is.. we encounter them almost daily defending everything he says.

[George II]

128. WTF? Without "investigations" or "subpoenas" there is NO oversight, and without oversight....

....the republicans are free to do what they want, which will result in MORE people without healthcare and they'll be waiting a lot longer to earn more than $11 an hour.

I can't believe he can't see this himself.

[NastyRiffraff]

190. It's quite possible he DOES see it

He's indicated, overtly and subtly, that he either doesn't care about or doesn't want investigations. Plus, the one and only issue he cares about is economic disparity; an important issue surely, but there are other things to be concerned with, the investigation being an important one. The human mind really is capable of focusing on several things at once! Bernie almost always pushes everything other than economic inequality aside, so this isn't at all surprising.

[Hekate]

137. What the hell is wrong with him?! The Independent from Vermont ...

...is enchanted with the wonderfulness of his own voice and his one-size-fits-all plan. His vision, such as it is, is tunnel vision. If the people of Vermont are still with him, fine, he is their Senator. It is a small state in every way -- and didn't I just read that an African American woman, a public official in Vermont, just resigned because of a campign of pressure from racists?

PS: I am not bashing a Democrat. We are not having a General Election just now.

[namahage]

157. Sounds like "impeachment is off the table" for Bernie too.

But it's only the female Speaker that gets criticized for it...

[Bfd]

180. + a million And that is his OTHER problem ♀️

Yuk.

[True Blue American]

292. Bernie, Bernie

Democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time! That is what makes us Democrats. We do not need a cult leader to tell us what to think.

Your tirades lost the Sell by date when you lost in 2016.

[NurseJackie]

306. You're correct. It is...

Sounds more like he dusted off the old campaign spiel for an odd sort of diversion.

You're correct. It is. Without a doubt.

[ecstatic]

28. His latest round of tone deaf comments were deeply offensive

and hurtful.

[Cha]

85. Yep.. just the

latest.

[EffieBlack]

29. +10,000,000

[PaulX2]

30. Bernie Should Stop Telling The Truth

Be like other politicians!

Why do you think he is the most popular politician in the country?

Too bad America can't handle the truth.

We need Air America brought back.

[EffieBlack]

33. You think saying that being uncomfortable voting for a black person isn't racism is "truth"?

Thanks for your honesty. It's good to know what we're dealing with here.

[Amimnoch]

95. This. nt.

[rzemanfl]

209. +1. n/t

[obamanut2012]

38. Wow

[Cha]

60. But it's not true.

Link to tweet

[Eliot Rosewater]

143. What is that saying about if it walks like a duck.

[Demsrule86]

62. Joe Biden, by credible polls unlike the one that you reference which had serious errors,

is more popular.

[GulfCoast66]

123. So in you opinion he is correct?

Voting against someone for being black is not racism? If so, you and I have a very different definition of racism.

[BannonsLiver]

163. That rationale has trumpian notes

“Ah well sure he says some bad things but he tells it like it is.”

[dawg day]

330. What is it he said that is "the truth"?

It's weird that after a two-term black president, and in the very week many black candidates were running for office (many winning, two important elections still underway), he decides to make this particular comment. What was his reason for doing that? And is it indeed "the truth" that not voting fora black candidate because the voter feels "uncomfortable voting for a black person" is not racist? That's at least arguable, certainly.
I wouldn't agree, at any rate, that it is "the truth".

Besides, again, a majority of voters voted for a black president. Twice.

[njhoneybadger]

35. I concur

[obamanut2012]

36. Cosign!

[chwaliszewski]

37. I almost forgot...

that Bernie bashing is still in vogue. Sigh.....

[Bfd]

43. As in vogue as Democrat Pelosi bashing.

[Me.]

59. It Wouldn't Be If He'd Stop Pontificating

about racism, the Dems, minorities and so on and so forth

[BannonsLiver]

170. And I see reflexive, irrational defense of everything he says is still in vogue among his followers.

[aeromanKC]

39. Bernie needs to hand the progressive baton off to Beto

It's time for the younger generation to run the show.

[EffieBlack]

44. Or to Stacey or Andrew or Sharice or Alexandria or ...

Please don't start singling out and idolizing Beto as the Great White Male Hope - the party has many, many people who have already taken up progressive batons (and, btw, Bernie isn't the only person with the progressive baton, so it's not solely his to "hand off" to anyone ...)

[mcar]

156. This!

[StuckInTexas]

192. I was wondering why

you were so quick the other night to jump all over Beto Tuesday night. Is that your take? Beto should be disregarded because he is both white an male? So it is immaterial that he almost turned the most backwards state that has a large population blue? Btw, if you want more fuel for your hatred of Bernie to Beto, the majority of his staffers were Bernie 2016 vets. There, go forth and demonize.

[EffieBlack]

208. What in the hell are you talking about?

Certainly you don't believe that expanding and diversifying a pool to include others beyond one white man does not equate to disregarding that white man.

FYI - expanding opportunity for others does not constitute oppression of those who have always had that opportunity.

[delisen]

310. Stacy's battle for our right to vote and the actual work

she and others are doing on this is incredibly energizing. Given the amount of voter suppression, the number of. votes she has gotten is inspiring. That she is fighting for every vote to be counted is beyond awesome.

One side wants to count our votes, the other does not. Counting votes is democracy, not counting votes is authoritarianism.

[Bfd]

47. That's Democrat BETO. Someone who proudly claims his Party name.

[True Blue American]

347. We have not seen the last of Beto!

[True Blue American]

345. Agree 100%

At least cable news has slowed down on his exposure. At this point Bernie is trying desperately to stay relevant. He would be wise to sit down, shut up.

He can never use the Democratic party again.

BTW, Terry McAuliffe announced he was running on Sharpton yesyerday. One of the most brilliant,articulate men I know. He ran the DNC like clockwork. Popular Virginia Governor.

[dameatball]

41. I think this may be my second "Bernie" post, as I generally stay out of them.

His statement about some people being uncomfortable with voting for some one because of race was flat out dumb. Personally, I would prefer he just come out and say that he makes dozens of statements daily and he just screwed the pooch on this one. An apology would then be in order.
The people of Vermont seem to be happy with him, so I'm not going to bash him for his political views. I agree with some of them and I have always liked his firebrand attitude. I do think he is also all about Bernie. He has every right to maintain his independent status but I will only vote for a Democrat. If he wants to be President he needs to realize he cannot do it without Democratic voters. We have other Democrats that can win. In short, he needs us a lot more than we need him. Especially after that dumb racist remark.

[Bfd]

52. Thank You

"We have other Democrats that can win.
In short, he needs us a lot more than we need him.
Especially after that dumb racist remark."

Excellent post

[calimary]

167. Yes indeed.

[comradebillyboy]

91. Well said!

[mac56]

45. JFC. Give it up already.

[fleabiscuit]

290. That should be "whip it." And if you can be wrong about that... nt

[Thekaspervote]

49. Go bernie...that is go home!!

[beastie boy]

51. The sooner the better. He is now up to his old tricks

of paving the road to hell with his good intentions. According to him, the 2018 elections show that a "progressive" candidate can win the Presidency, at the expense of a Democratic candidate.

Didn't we try that just two short years ago?

[louis c]

53. I like Bernie, but he needs to be a Democrat all the time, not just election time.

That's the Presidential election and his Senate seat. He ran as a Democrat in the primary, had enough signatures to run as an independent for Senator and then formally declined the Democratic nomination.

A person can be a socialist Democrat. In fact, I'm very close to that, myself. But, first, I'm a Democrat. I haven't seen a Republican that's better than a Democrat on any of my General Election ballots in over 40 years (I voted for Ed Brooke. He was the last Republican I voted for in 1978). Change the way the party thinks. That's OK. Do it in primaries and work toward it in between. But this in and out bull shit does nobody any good.

[redstatebluegirl]

55. I'll loan him a horse.

[dlk]

58. Bernie May Mean Well, or Not, However, His Constant Critiques of Democrats Help No One

Except, perhaps Republicans.

[LiberalFighter]

109. There you go.

I would consider those critiques of Democrats to be attacks on Democrats. Not really someone we need in the Democratic Party. If a Democrat should be attacking anyone it should be Republicans.

[cstanleytech]

65. All that aside I generally do like his stances on most issues and had he actually joined the party

5 to 10 years ago he might have won the nomination rather than Hillary however since he did not that hurt him thus he lost.

[elmac]

68. another circular firing squad

tRump and putin will love this thread, ready, aim, FIRE!!!

[louis c]

172. Be a Democrat all the time, not just election time

And, by the way, Trump and Putin loved Bernie in 2016. Go back and look at how they blasted the Democrats for not being "fair" to Bernie. Bernie sure served their purposes. I know Bernie tried to do the right thing in the last few weeks of the election. But, as it turned out, it was too little, too late. Now, we are all suffering.

[notinkansas]

275. Bernie is the reason we are where we are today

Bernie inspired millions of people to strive for more. The old, tired democratic position of moving to the 'center' was absolutely the wrong thing to do. It made the democratic party republican-lite. Aint nobody needs that!!!

This isn't about being in the right club or clique. This is about recognizing and supporting anyone who can move our politics forward and improve the lives of average Americans. And Bernie has done exactly that.

So it's really hard for me to believe that so many negative comments are really du'ers. Are you guys Russian bots or republican trolls? I don't get it.

[R B Garr]

71. Agreed! He would need a sound apology tour and full

explanation that shows his understanding of how divisive rhetoric was used to undermine our candidate, but that would destroy the chaos so it’s unlikely to happen.

[elmac]

72. every time I see a thread on DU attacking fellow progressives

I wonder how many paid putinites are operating here, just sayin.

[scheming daemons]

103. This site is DU - Democratic Underground... not PU - Progressive Underground

Bernie isn't a Democrat.

Bernie harms the Democratic Party.

[elmac]

160. oooooooh mmmmmmy

[elmac]

161. so your saying that Democrats are not progressives?

and like I said, I bet there are a few or more putinites on DU that love to stir things up between PROGRESSIVES!

[scheming daemons]

168. Some progressives are Democrats..... but some "progressives" are disrupters.

[Magoo48]

191. Extremely astute; your clarity is a bit nebulous, but your empirical pronouncements cover that up.

[Gothmog]

363. You do know that russia helped sanders a great deal

Russia was helping sanders for a reason https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

WASHINGTON – It turns out Donald Trump wasn’t the only candidate the Russians allegedly tried to help during the 2016 presidential campaign.

A 37-page indictment resulting from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation shows that Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton.

The Russians “engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” according to the indictment, which was issued Friday.

sanders success to some degree was due to Russia

[agingdem]

75. He needs to do his job

and shut up about everything else... "uncomfortable voting for a black person does not make someone a racist"... seriously? Bernie, you self serving self righteous putz, you're a Jew or have you forgotten?... how about this...someone who is uncomfortable voting for a muslim/jew/hispanic,LGBT doesn't make that someone a bigot...it makes that someone a what?

[elmac]

76. but there is a silver lining

it helps me populate my ignore list

[BannonsLiver]

164. That cuts both ways

[SunSeeker]

77. K & R

[Croney]

78. I think this is my first-ever post in a Bernie thread.

When I heard the quote about so-called nonracist people being uncomfortable voting for a black person, I thought it must be from a racist in Florida who doesn't want a highly qualified African American to be governor. Was it really Bernie Sanders? It wasn't a doctored thing like the Acosta video? Then he is a fool. And I don't see how anyone could spin his statement as nonracist.

[NurseJackie]

114. But many defenders are certainly giving it a good try...

And I don't see how anyone could spin his statement as nonracist.

But many defenders are certainly giving it a good try, aren't they?

The fact of the matter is that what was said was disgusting and unforgivable. Statements like that offer comfort and cover to racists. It's unforgivable. Something like that would be career-ending for any other actual Democrat.

In the end, one thing is clear... something like this permanently disqualifies someone from seeking higher office.

[BeyondGeography]

80. He's not the only one

Lots of suitable passengers on that boat.

[KG]

82. I lulz'd

[hell674]

84. Manchin instead?

Here in Minnesota, especially in the 8th, Sander's policies had fertile ground but the DFL did not aggressively get after it. Joe Radinovich was under funded and essentially ignored. The result, a congressional seat flipped from blue to red. Policies that would begin the process of transforming the range from a economy that depends on people scratching at the ground to get the last bits of low grade ore to something that will provide a future for people are needed. The DFL were silent on this and offered nothing. The result, Pete Stauber, who stood proudly with Trump at a Duluth rally, is now my congressman. The Democratic Party needs progressives like Sanders to drive it toward solutions that work for people. Triangulation and the Third Way failed. You don't like Sanders? Fine, either does the GOP. Consider the company you're keeping.

[BannonsLiver]

169. Show me where Manchin said something like Bernie did about voting and racism?

That’s all Bernie. And it was a dumb thing to say that won’t be forgotten. He should probably factor that into his 2020 decision.

[hell674]

223. Manchin

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/joe_manchin_501655

He is anti-women.

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/joe_manchin_175555

He is anti worker.


https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/joe_manchin_501651

He is pro NRA

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/joe_manchin_501664

He is anti health care.

Now Joe Manchin is likely the only Democrat that could get elected in West Virginia but he does nothing for the party. Sanders on the other hand is responsible for thousands of voters rejoining the party on the promise of Universal Health Care, affordable higher education, and a living wage. There's an old saying, "You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing." The Democratic Party had better figure it out and from the results here in Minnesota, the DFL has, but just a little bit. Progressives are in charge now. Get on board or step aside.

[mr_liberal]

239. Republicans love people like you because you help them win. nt

[betsuni]

242. WhataboutManchin is the new WhataboutHillary

[hell674]

248. not my point

Manchin is the only Democrat that could be elected in West Virginia. If the Democratic Party can include him under their tent, why not Sanders. He has caucused faithfully with the Party for his entire time in office. Are you not in favor of Universal Health care, affordable college, living wage? Would we be talking about any of that if not for Sanders?

[betsuni]

250. Manchin doesn't call the Democratic Party a failure consisting of establishment elites

beholden to corporations and wealthy donors.

By the way, Democrats need healthy majorities in the legislature to pass progressive laws, like FDR had. You're saying the Clintons didn't try to reform health care in the 90s, Ted Kennedy and others haven't been trying to get universal health for decades? That Democrats haven't been trying to raise the minimum wage and make college more affordable? All you have to do is Google that stuff and you can see the history, but again, need majorities in the legislature.

[hell674]

254. Manchin doesn't say much to piss off NRA, anti-choice, or insurance corporations.

Sanders was re-elected by 70%. There's your majority. The Clintons did fight for health care in the 90's and failed. Since the 90's how many state and local offices have been lost? How has Union membership been doing since the 90's? These are the problems we have today as DFL and Democratic Party members. As a party how about we stand for something other then the Democratic Party. How about we welcome progressive viewpoints? Jill Stein and the greens are welcome to. It's called a coalition. The GOP did it with the Fascists. Sanders has been a loyal partner of the Democratic party and the people that agree with the policies he's advocating for are getting tired of Third Way nonsense.

[betsuni]

261. What Third Way nonsense?

When people say that I don't know what they mean, so could you give an example? Thanks.

[hell674]

263. Health care and the Third Way

This is an example.

https://www.thirdway.org/memo/winning-on-health-care

Read carefully the second to last paragraph.

Single payer advocates have recommended that candidates do not use the term single payer and instead take advantage of the popularity of Medicare with the term Medicare-for-all. Medicare is indeed popular as a program for older and disabled Americans who have no other source of comprehensive coverage. But most Americans have coverage with their employer. Once they find out that under Medicare-for-all they would have to pay higher taxes instead keeping their own coverage, public opinion swings from 55% support to 60% oppose. Support drops by even more when they hear the argument that Medicare-for-all would give the government too much control over health care.

What this means, is insurance corporations remain intact and costs remain high. No real solution here, it's a methodology for a sales pitch. And that is the Third Way. Smoke and mirrors policy and the recommendation that candidates adopt an essentially undefinable position. This last Tuesday, DFL'ers in Minnesota did the opposite and won. If the national Democratic Party had shown some interest in Radinovich and the people living and working in the mines on the Range, the GOP would not have had a chance. Now, because of Stauber, we are looking at the distinct possibility of sulfide mining immediately adjacent to the Boundary Waters. We are looking at Enbridge building a tar sands pipeline through the Lakes region. No worries though, the DFL has had to show the Democratic Party how to do things in the past. We can again.

[betsuni]

270. I guess Third Way means politics.

The article says that single payer failed in Vermont, Colorado and Massachusetts (before Romneycare). "If states are the laboratories of democracy, the experiments show that even the most progressive governments can't deliver single payer."

Bernie's plan is called Medicare for All. It's explained why it should be called that instead of single payer.

The easiest way to improve health care is to expand on the ACA, adding a public option. In 2017 (or maybe late 2016), Bernie Sanders thought so too. From "What Happened": "We recently shared a smile and a sigh when we heard Bernie called for improving the Affordable Care Act immediately by embracing the approach that I proposed as a candidate: a public option in fifty states and lowering the Medicare age to fifty-five."

[hell674]

273. Possibly

And so back to my previous questions. How has that worked for Democrats occupying state and local offices since the '90's? How has that worked out for Union membership since the '90's? The Third Way is why a public option wasn't included in the ACA originally.

[lapucelle]

356. BS was missing in action in his home state Vermont during the general election.

An incumbent Republican governor who vetoed an increase in the minimum wage, the creation of a paid family leave program, and who contracted with a for-profit prison to house some of Vermont's incarcerated in a Mississippi hell hole also won on Tuesday. (While POC only make up 1% of VT's state population, they make up 11% of the prison population.)

Among the Democrats who lost their races last Tuesday was the Democratic candidate in the Vermont gubernatorial race, Christine Hallquist, the nation's first transgender candidate for governor. She ran on a platform that included a $15 an hour minimum wage, the creation of a paid family medical leave program, working with like-minded states to implement universal healthcare cooperatives, and protecting collective bargaining and workers rights.

It's bewildering that BS was unavailable to campaign at length to remedy the very real problems in his home state by helping to elect Vermont Democrat Christine Hallquist. Why were the governor's races in Georgia, Florida, and Michigan prioritized over the well-being of his own constituents?

Why indeed.

[Cha]

366. Wow.. so there's another repub Gov in Vermont

now?!

[lapucelle]

368. Governor Scott recently contracted to send VT's incaracerated to a for-profit prison in Mississippi.

That race should have been a priority.

[ehrnst]

376. Most developed nations achieve universal health coverage with hybrid/multi-payer systems

Why do you think that's not acceptable in the US?

[hell674]

247. sorry but no

I understand how you want to characterize me as some cartoon villain. My evil plot is to undermine the Democratic Party from within. I suppose that is understandable since here in Minnesota, the Democratic Party is called something different. We are the Democratic Farm-Labor party. There is actually quite a fascinating history for the DFL. You should look at it. The DFL is the party of Humphrey and McCarther. It is the party of Mondale and Wellstone. The DFL is the party that sent Keith Ellison to Congress, the nations first Muslim Congressman. The DFL will be sending Ilhan Omar to Congress, a young immigrant from Somalia. I watched the Democratic party throw my duly elected DFL Senator, Al Franken, under the bus for political expediency and just this week I cast my vote for Tina Smith, a moderate DFL'er. Sorry but my DFL creds are in place. I am mystified every time I see a anti-Bernie thread here. Why aren't progressives, independents, greens, blues, plaids and paisley's not welcome in the Democratic Party?

[BannonsLiver]

279. So no examples where he said something as goofy about race like Bernie did?

I thought so. Sounds like Bernie could use yet another lesson on that subject.

The good news is it will dog him throughtout 2020 if he chooses to put us all through another WH bid.

[Kosey]

86. Stop the trashing

Stop trashing Bernie.
Bernie has caucused with the democrats for decades and has always been there on important votes and voted with the democrats. His vote is never in question unlike centrist democrats -- Manchin??
Maybe you don't like who he supports, but at least he is out there working for DEMOCRATIC candidates. He did not single handedly call for the resignation of one of our best senators, Al Franken, and get everyone to fall in line to force his resignation.
He excited the young voters, a group of voters the democratic party desperately needs in their camp.
He's more of an FDR democrat than centrist democrats have been over the years. Be grateful and quit the trashing.

[Mariana]

102. The OP doesn't blame Republican voters for electing Republicans.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210789965

How weird is that?

[namahage]

108. He may not have started the attack on Franken,

But he had no problems joining in on it once he had cover to do so.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenSanders/status/938496242732150786

[NurseJackie]

90. I love this post so much. It's honest and heartfelt...

I love this post so much. It's honest and heartfelt. It's factual and well-organized. It's reflective and well-considered. It's truthful. It's clear and well-written.

You are correct, the recent comments about racists and racism reveal much, and I must say it's not very flattering to anyone who agrees with them or who defends such comments.

Words like that are extremely callous and hurtful... many feel that it's "career-ending" and that it "disqualifies" him from ever having realistic aspirations for higher office.

All I'm trying to say here is that things like that cannot be easily forgiven and are certainly not quickly forgotten.

[George II]

98. It's not only not flattering to those who agree with him, but it's on the edge of being insulting...

....to lifelong Democrats who don't subscribe to such thoughts or ideals.

[NurseJackie]

105. Excellent point. Very insulting and risks alienating

Excellent point. Very insulting to lifelong Democrats. It also risks alienating and driving away support from AA/POC voters. What good purpose does that serve the Democratic Party or the nation?

Things like this WEAKEN and DIVIDE our party. It creates distrust and resentment. All I'm saying is that a weakened and divided Democratic party only benefits the GOP... and the Russians. My question is: why would anyone do or say things that benefited the GOP and Russians?

[Iowa420]

92. Bernie speaks like many Dems should

Odd that most of his ideals are what this party needs at this time. So we should quit bashing anyone who wants to help our party win in 2020.

[emulatorloo]

93. Bernie on Trump: Trump's not really a racist or sexist

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/taibbi-bernie-sanders-interview-753484/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Sanders: As you know, Trump is a 100-percent political opportunist, who has no political views other than how he can win elections.

Taibbi: Well, that’s true.

Sander: Today, if he is a racist and a sexist, tomorrow he may be a great civil rights champion — if he thinks it gets him five more votes.

——————

Trump has a history of discrimination against minorities at his properties. There is also a tape of him bragging about sexually assaulting women. All of that is from long before he became a politician.

Dunno what’s up with Bernie and all these hot takes.

From yesterday: ““I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,”“

[BannonsLiver]

158. The problem isn't the message, it's the package it comes in

A lot of people find Bernie grating.

[rzemanfl]

207. Join and stir. Enjoy your stay. n/t

[George II]

313. Which "Dems" don't?

As the saying goes, "actions speak louder than words."

[scheming daemons]

106. He makes excuses for racists..... and he attacks Democrats...and he is NOT a Democrat

[NurseJackie]

367. True. Thank you.

[Kurt V.]

97. ok

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Drhv7rpU4AEc9Kd?format=jpg

[BumRushDaShow]

134. Here is another link to the graphic

Data from here - https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/11/07/trump-endorsed-75-candidates-in-the-midterms-how-did-they-fare-on-election-day/

[Kurt V.]

146. thnx. i don't know how to do that yet

[BumRushDaShow]

153. I found another source for the graphic that had an image extension on the end (.jpg or .gif or .png)

[disillusioned73]

99. And there it is... as expected

Bernie does not need your bad advice.. nor does he need you permission..

[Amimnoch]

101. But he needs the vote he ain't gonna get.

Just another round of spoiling if he does.

[disillusioned73]

112. What vote he ain't gonna get????

Spoiling what exactly???? It's called primaries, if a candidate can't handle it.. don't jump into the fray...

[Amimnoch]

100. Totally agree with this. nt.

[karynnj]

104. He is a sitting senator who got nearly 70% of the vote in his state on Tuesday - so VT did not ask

him to retire. They asked him to serve the next 6 years.

In addition, he went to many college campuses and made a strong plea for kids to register and vote. Where he could, he even marched with students to places where they could register or vote.

I live in Burlington - so I went to hear his rally at UVM - where all the top Democrats running in the state also spoke. He did a great job speaking to the kids who were there because of him. Here is a link to the rally/concert that Donkees posted.

Obviously, he was not alone making that outreach. Both Obamas and others all made the same appeal. That is for the good, as EACH one may be able to convince different people.

As to the offending comment - it is at variance with many things he has said. I suspect that it was an inartful statement -- something ALL politicians speaking 16 hours a day at election time - make. I hope the local VT papers will ask him to either explain what he meant and/or take back the comment.

As to 2020, I know there are hints he will run. I also know, that many people who the media have speculated will run are loath to stop rumours. They have a bigger megaphone for their comments when they are seen as in the running. (Not to mention - consider that neither Hillary Clinton, who both did nothing to suggest they were running and who made statements that should have been seen as not running, have faced stories that they are running. )

However, if Bernie decided to run for President-- his numbers would almost certainly be far lower than in 2016. In 2016, there was a binary choice. There are likely to be many more choices in 2020. Imagine that Warren, Harris, or someone else seen as progessive runs. They would probably capture a large share of his 2016 base - especially if they were seen as able to get support from all corners of the party.

[Tarc]

107. It's time for a lot of the Old Hoss' to pass the torch

I want younger blood in 2020, 70+ is a complete no-go IMO.

[Magoo48]

198. Agreed.

It’s time for the old guard Democrats as we as the old guard progressives to pass the torches. And, the Hillary, Bernie, Pelosi, Biden, etc. whine fest is wearing real thin.

[True Blue American]

297. Agree, 100%.

[RobertDevereaux]

110. Whoever wins the Democratic presidential primary...

GETS MY VOTE and my enthusiastic support!

[lunatica]

111. He did get Progressive people to run so he does have value

There are too many DUers who insist on having some purity test.

[ehrnst]

113. I'll say about him what many here say about Pelosi:

He needs to be mentoring someone younger to take his place, and bow out gracefully.

[NurseJackie]

116. Goose, gander... and all that! :-D

[Tavarious Jackson]

117. Bye Bernie.

His 15 is over

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

119. Oh shit...be careful there...That 'segment" here will run you a rash of shit for that that simple

opinion. PS...I agree.

[zentrum]

120. More young, progressive candidates

....won on Tuesday than had happened in years. Thanks in part to Bernie whom these new candidates really like.

[Tavarious Jackson]

271. More democrats won period.

Most of the people he endorsed lost. That is a fact no matter how people want to spin it.

[zentrum]

325. Oh, you must mean

.....those "losers" like Abrams, Gillum and Beto. Abrams--a first black female candidate for Governor of Georgia is an earthquake in that state. Gillum would be the first Democrat is 30 years to come within a hair's breath of the Governors office in Fl. They both may still win.

And Beto--same story in Texas. Democratic infrastructure earthquake in red country.

But I guess huge progress is "losing".

Then there's the great, new Ocasio-Cortez, whom he campaigned with---and all the new Democrats in the House who identify themselves with all of Bernie's agenda---raise in the minimum wage, free public higher education, Medicare for all. They will change the House and the party.

[Tavarious Jackson]

332. Those isses have always been democratic issues.

Hillary care was not good enough for Bernie.. He railed against it. I sure wish we had at least that right now. Gilliam worked on Hillary's campaign, and Hillary did robo calls for Abrams.

[True Blue American]

371. Thank you

Bernie did not invent Health Care for all! That is a Democratic plan. Has been for as longs as I can remember. Do not forget Democrats gave us Medicare. Now,we need that for all!

[betsuni]

372. This cannot be repeated enough.

Those issues have always been Democratic issues. The propaganda claiming otherwise is ridiculous.

[dogandturtlemom]

121. Independent

Dare I say that, though I am registered Democrat, those who identify as Independent or, in California, Decline to state, are a strong reason the House, and many Governors, have flipped to blue. Bernie is the reason that the Democrats have again dared to move back to progressive policies.

[Power 2 the People]

125. +1

[NurseJackie]

131. No he's not.

Bernie is the reason that the Democrats have again dared to move back to progressive policies.

No he's not.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

[Iowa420]

199. Then who is??

If Bernie isn't the reason who is??

[betsuni]

235. The people, voters.

Republicans had people freaking out about the ACA for years but now who's claiming to be the ones protecting preexisting conditions? They are. When the Clintons tried to reform health care in the nineties they failed, the ACA passed Congress with a public option which had to be removed before it passed the Senate because of Joe Lieberman. But now the ACA is popular and the idea of universal health care isn't scary or socialist anymore. As more states have legalized marijuana, same sex marriage, high minimum wages, etc., the more popular progressive ideas become. We can now point to Washington State, which raised its minimum wages to $15 dollars, and say, See! The economy didn't collapse, there are still restaurants there, it can be done nationally. That's how more progressive policies become possible.

[George II]

312. Let's start with the entire Democratic Party, from the top (Tom Perez) to local members...

...across the country.

[Go Vols]

212. +1

[Tavarious Jackson]

268. I disagree.

There are many many democrats far more progressive than him. I would say on immigration, on gun control ,(Brady bill) on transparency, (Tax returns) on the right to protest and many more.

[Tribalceltic]

122. Bernie is not as much as a problem

As Bernie being constantly pushed down our throats here by "Bernie Bros"
This only adds to more division and needs to STOP

[NurseJackie]

133. Amen to that.

...constantly pushed down our throats...

Amen to that. The behavior you're describing creates distrust and division.

[calimary]

171. Indeed.

[Botany]

129. He needs to go away

The Russians and the GOP have and are still using him.

[SHRED]

130. At this point I tend to agree

And I supported him in the primaries.

[LovingA2andMI]

136. That makes us Both...

His comments about African-Americans voting for Stacey Abrams and Andrew Gillum in Southern States are unacceptable and he has lost the support of this writer on the national stage. He knows NOTHING about how and why African-Americans in Southern States vote.

Bernie needs to be the Senator of Vermont and focus his full attention on that. Period.

[SHRED]

139. He lost me when...

...he quit the party.

[Paladin]

132. Amen. Disappear, Bernie. (nt)

[iluvtennis]

135. + 1

[sagesnow]

138. Agreed.

Go away Bernie.

[Sherman A1]

141. You are entitled to your opinion

However, I disagree with you and believe just the opposite is needed.

[Kosey]

144. Bernie

As usual, people on this sight never look at the history of the party...

How many elections -- national and statewide -- has the democratic party lost since the '90's when the party moved to the center? They decided the party did not need to campaign in all 50 states. They just calculated where they needed to win. We lost massively over the years, not to mention voters who did not like the direction the party was heading.

The party is not perfect and never has been. There is room for Bernie and people who support his progressive ideas. We should welcome and encourage the movement he ignited.

Take responsibility and quit trashing what he has done. You encourage division and frankly it's ugly

[LexVegas]

147. Is that why he is trying to appeal to racists? Are they left of center?

[Chakaconcarne]

148. So, what.... The democratic party has no use for Bernie? Bullshit.

He exercises what the GOP has been doing for decades..... Your party should represent the many flavors of that party under the umbrella of one so you broaden the voter base. Look at how 2016 had every flavor of GOP candidate imaginable.

If you reject Bernie, you increase the chances he and his supporters will branch off from the democratic party and take votes away... You are setting up for that by this reject Bernie bullshit.

Work him and his supporters into the party... What's wrong with that?

...and he still fights for progressive causes...

So I call bullshit on anything anti-Bernie. It sounds more like something the GOP or Russia would propose than anyone wanting to further progressive values.

[LexVegas]

150. ...

[disillusioned73]

177. Yup...

[RandiFan1290]

151. Bernie represents me and stands up for my family.

I don't really give a fuck what any of the haters think.

Thank you Senator Bernie Sanders!

[marlakay]

162. I have a new friend Hillary supporter for many years

While we both voted for Hillary as soon as I said I was for Bernie in the primary she went off on him.

I have a problem on this site of all the Hillary supporters bashing Bernie and feeling because he lost the primary its ok and they have that right.

It is well beyond time for us to move past both Bernie and Hillary.

Yes he made a stupid comment but he fights for the things most people on this site believe in.

Only because he came close to Hillary and isn’t a full democrat many here hate him.

[Catch2.2]

187. Threads like these hurt the party!

Russia actually posted threads, Facebook posts, like this during the election. Stop with the Bernie hate!!! What good has this thread done? Enough already!!!

[Wintryjade]

152. I agree.

[calimary]

155. YES. YES. YES. YES. YES. YES. YES.

You’ve done enough damage, Bernie. Please exit the stage while you can still do it somewhat gracefully. You’d leave while still having lots of fans out there. I’m not among them but there are plenty of ‘em nonetheless. Please STOP sowing division, discord, and discontent among us loyal and devoted Democrats. You’re not EVER gonna be president, but you can still make sure you leave us divided and set upon each other so another REAL Democrat who would make an outstanding POTUS can’t win.

Sometimes I could never help but suspect that was your main objective all along.

[NurseJackie]

369. Many people agree with you and...

... and share the same suspicions. You're not alone.

[KayF]

159. this is inconsiderate to Bernie supporters

I suppose it's the consensus at DU that the Bernie supporters are so wrong that that doesn't matter, but I disagree with this consensus.

[BannonsLiver]

166. I agree with the consensus

These threads are positively divine.

[pnwmom]

182. When people criticize Nancy Pelosi and say she should resign from leadership, do you also say

that is inconsiderate to her supporters?

[KayF]

189. I might

the party leadership thing is a little inside baseball for me, but I think people should be considerate when making any of these criticisms.

One thing though, the people that want Nancy at the top of the dem leadership have had their way for 16 straight years. It might be fair that they would have a greater burden in these matters.

[pnwmom]

194. You haven't though. And you are clearly one of the people who think she should step down.

So I think you're doing the same thing you're criticizing others for -- not being "considerate" to her supporters, who believe that her knowledge and experience makes her far more capable of leading the House through the turbulent times ahead than some newbie.

This isn't about fairness or branding the party. It's about KNOWLEDGE and SKILL.

[NurseJackie]

314. ...

[Gothmog]

174. I doubt that sanders will either release his tax returns or agree to be a member of the party

In order to run in 2020, sanders will need to release full copies of five to ten years of tax returns to be comply with ballot access laws in some key blue states and to comply with new DNC rules, sanders will have to formerly join the party and agree to run as a democrat. I doubt that sanders will do either.

I would love to seen full and complete copies of sanders tax returns.

[hell674]

237. as requested

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-tax-return-222041

[Gothmog]

246. To comply with ballot access laws sanders will need five or ten years complete returns

Last edited Sat Nov 10, 2018, 12:38 PM - Edit history (2)

Do you think that sanders will let us know who was paid the commissions on the TV ads he ran in 2

[hell674]

251. you have some reason to think

I suspect that information is in the hands of the FEC. If not, then file a lawsuit to obtain it. Sanders has been in office a very long time and there is no indication he has ill gotten gain squirreled away.

[Gothmog]

272. there are real questions about commissions paid for tv ads used in the California primary

Commissions for the tv ads used in the California primary have not been fully accounted for. A significant amount of commissions was paid to a LLC that may be alliliated with Jane Sanders. Sanders full 2016 tax returns will be very interesting.

Sanders was never vetted by the press because no one in the media considered sanders to be a serious candidate. I doubt that sanders would survive a real vetting by the press

Sanders will not be the nominee of the party. There are a large number of democrats who have long memories and who blame sanders for helping to elect trump.

[Bear Creek]

184. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

She worked on Bernie's campaign. She won by alot. He does caucus with and vote with democrats. About the same as Joe Manchin.

[Catch2.2]

185. I disagree

Threads like these divide us. Bernie has very good progressive policies which should be embraced. He is not trying to divide the party. Look at the content and character of a person, not just if they have a "D" next to their name.

[SKKY]

186. I agree. He had his moment. He had his chance. Yes, I know Debbie...

...Wasserman Shultz screwed it up for him, but like Kurtis Blow said, "These are the breaks." No more 70+ year-old white guys for a while.

[Catch2.2]

188. Stop with the Bernie hate!

What good has this thread done to advancing liberal/progressive causes? Threads like these divide us more. This is exactly what Russia did during the 2016 election. Don't fall for it again. Enough of the Bernie bashing!!! Lets stay focused! Traitor Trump & the GOP are our enemy, not Bernie! Let's stay focused!

[Small-Axe]

339. No, I think The Russians were pushing the false narrative that the Democratic primary results...

Last edited Sun Nov 11, 2018, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)

were rigged.

The buy-in in some quarters on that lie caused a lot of damage.

[PatrickforO]

193. Seems like we have bigger fish to fry than criticizing Bernie and Michael Moore.

I suggest that instead we continue to vociferously criticize Trump, McConnell, Lindsey 'we all gonna diah!' Graham and other floaters in the great GOP bowl. Let's try and flush these people.

As to Bernie, he won his election handily, and since he is a member of the US Senate in good standing, he is free to say what he will, even if it makes some of us uncomfortable. He caucuses with the Dems, and he votes with us. Yes, I hope he doesn't run in 2020, though I did support him strongly in 2016 - I believe if he does run, he'll get pushed out early in the season. The field is too crowded and we have some really good younger candidates.

As to Michael Moore, he tends to say controversial things that make us uncomfortable also.

So let me pose a respectful question to all of you:

Do you think our party is so perfect that it should be above criticism?

I don't. Criticism leads to debate, and debate forces proponents and opponents of various strategies to think through and articulate their positions - to me the essence of democracy. The fact that I may criticize someone in the Democratic party based on their stance on issues, or may argue an issue (like this one) with people here does not mean I'm not a good Democrat. It merely means I'm trying to think things through and decide the best way to go on one or more issues.

[pnwmom]

196. Yeah, he's free to say whatever he wants, even if it sounds like he's excusing racists.

And so are the rest of us, even if it sounds like we're criticizing a progressive.

[Catch2.2]

318. Not really...

I had a post removed on DU because it sounded like I was criticizing the Democratic party.

[SidDithers]

197. Abso-fucking-lutely...

Sid

[ProfessorPlum]

200. What? He's not a Democrat? Why hasn't anyone made this point before?

you'd think they would at least mention it.






















/sarcasm, obviously

[Act_of_Reparation]

204. Wait, he's NOT a Democrat?

I guess we should probably remind everyone another few hundred thousand times.

[chillfactor]

206. Amen!

Every point you made is 100% correct. I want a vibrant younger Democrat to be nominated. I would never ever support Bernie.

[RainCaster]

215. Could he knit pink pussy hats?

I like some of his ideas, but I would never vote for him. He would make a great caucus chair

[Cha]

216. Damn Straight!

[Izzy Blue]

218. I live in Vermont and just voted again for Bernie..

That said I haven't heard anything new about Jane Sanders and the 2017 FBI investigation into possible fraud for her 10 million loan from People's Bank for Burlington College.
There's also accusations that Bernie played a part with People's Bank.
In January 2018 the Vt.Digger wrote that a Grand Jury was formed and a witness questioned which Bernie's spokesperson denied it at the time and I've read no updates.

By all appearances it appears unresolved and moving at a snails pace.

[George II]

225. They may have been following the unofficial rule about not talking about investigations 60 days....

....before an election.

[Gothmog]

221. I was a delegate to the national convention

The Clinton campaign had a whipping infrastructure in place and my whip was great on keeping me informed. The Clinton campaign warned her delegates that the Sanders delegates were going to protest and boo Congressman John Lewis 20 to 30 minutes before he was due to come onto the stage. This was planned event by the sanders delegates and according to my whip sanders was asked to stop it and declined.

A candidates delegates to the national convention are supposed to reflect the values of the candidate. Each candidate has the right to vet and reject delegates. The sanders delegates at the national convention did not make a good impression. My daughter was my guest and she was yelled at by sanders delegates and called the c-word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. sanders was asked repeatedly to talk to his delegates during the convention and sanders refused to do so.

These and other incidents will come up if sanders runs in 2020. The John Lewis incident would be an effective ad for states in the south. The Texas delegation shared a bus with the Georgia delegation and there are some senior Georgia delegates who were not happy with sanders.

I really doubt that sanders will be the nominee.

[Sunlei]

222. sorry to disappoint but I've been BEGGING Hillary & Bernie to both run again as Ds.

And team up early in the PRIMARY engaging THEIR voters base to choose who will be Pres & VP by primary vote numbers.

Why do you care if Sanders runs in the D PRIMARY? If he runs as an INDEP. then he would drain General Election votes from the D running.

Last election if Bernie ran as an Independent- Hillary wouldn't have WON by 3 million votes!!

This is why Sanders runs as a D!! he's said that before- he doesn't want to be a SPOILER.

That's all and as far as their AGES go- I simply don't care how old a person is when they run for office- If they're clear headed, healthy mind at 120 yrs- Let them run for any office they want.

Age= wisdom & experience in my book.

Thank you, Sunlei 11/2018

[linuxuser3]

224. This doesn't like too bad a result to me

https://ourrevolution.com/results/ & it looks like they're doing it just like the Republicans have been doing it for the last 5 decades: From the ground up.

They're in it for the long haul, playing the long game. In the long run in our political system, that's the way to win/take power.

[PoliticAverse]

226. "If he isn't going to join us" - He's a member of the Democratic Senate caucus...

His picture is even on the front page of their website:
https://www.democrats.senate.gov/

https:/


and he's the "Chairman of Outreach" for Senate Democrats.

[Erda]

229. This Bernie bashing gets us nowhere.

Bernie Sanders has done a lot to bring the Democratic Party back to its democratic roots. To me, his comment about the reluctance of some not to vote for an African American is an observation - that is, this type of voter is not knowingly or consciously racist but has been conditioned by American society to believe African Americans to be what this conditioning has taught them to expect. When the stereotype is shown to be false, the conditioned belief is weakened and then broken. This is demonstrated by the ascendancy of Andrew Gillum and Stacy Abrams, whose candidacy, in my view, was made possible by President Obama's excellent job performance as President. The American public would overwhelmingly vote for President Obama again, if they could, without hesitation. He destroyed the stereotype and broke through the conditioned expectation of the American voter. Stereotypes are being challenged all over the country in this election cycle, as more and more of us see each other as human beings.

[dawg day]

329. So the question is... those STILL uncomfortable, after Obama...

why is he feeling sympathy for them?
Why not say, "Join the 21st Century, slowpokes"?

[Cha]

231. BS isn't helping when he's covering for

this..

Link to tweet

[billpolonsky]

233. "Go retire, Bernie. You harm the country more than you help it."

Really? The whole country?

[elmac]

238. hmmm

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=jszy84" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

[Cha]

240. KICK!

[Quixote1818]

243. Maybe it's time for him to hand off the torch but the entire Democratic Party is now a lot closer to

him than it was before he ran for President. He has had a wonderful impact on the Democratic Party in moving it back to its roots.

[Cha]

252. Just No.. All BS has had are insults to

my Democratic Party. He's a divider.

BumRushDaShow

[fleabiscuit]

278. Hi doll!

It's amazing to see such quackery by some just after the midterm. So many didn't learn a thing from the righteous realignment of the House... ALL ELECTIONS ARE LOCAL. We won back seats because our candidates were allowed to speak to their local constituents about what they deemed important. And so many were women, and young. The dinosaurs should start their walk to the tar pits.

[Cha]

285. Hi flea!

Yes! Well said.. I like the way you put that..

It's amazing to see such quackery by some just after the midterm. So many didn't learn a thing from the righteous realignment of the House... ALL ELECTIONS ARE LOCAL. We won back seats because our candidates were allowed to speak to their local constituents about what they deemed important. And so many were women, and young. The dinosaurs should start their walk to the tar pits

Yeah, what the candidates across the country know about the people in their District.. not have to follow somebody's "brand" that has to fit a certain formula to be the "most progressive". I'm saving it for posterity! Congratulations Oregon!

[fleabiscuit]

295. Yes, we put a torpedo into the bow of the republthug boat.

I will admit that I was nervous. The media was reporting all million$ going into defeating Kate Brown and dems. We donated a modest amount to the govener a couple of times and one to the Oregon Democratic Party that they spread around. But wow, Oregon voters took names and kicked ass. We got super majorities in both houses and defeated all the rotten republithug ballot measures.

[Cha]

328. I saw on here all that unfolding.. and

I'm so happy for you Oregonians!

My daughter and her family live in Portland, Ore..

Oregon repub party rip

Cheers, flea!

[betsuni]

244. K&R

[colsohlibgal]

245. Such Rancor

I pretty much agree with most every position he has. I support democrats but the less tied to big corporations the better IMHO.

[pnwmom]

253. Do you agree with his recent comments about racists? n/t

[Bfd]

255. The day he unites DU is the day I will believe he's gonna win the Dem ticket

Until then, he remains far to divisive. Just look at how he is not able to unify this one group. Unfortunately, this is where he stands with the population.

I don't have a clue how he brings us all to the same page.

Maybe someone else knows.
It is not about who's right or who's wrong. It is just the simple truth.

[Tavarious Jackson]

269. Unless..

It's dumping nuke waste in a minority neighborhood or needing the NRA to win your first election.

[Vinnie From Indy]

257. Seems pretty simple to me

Bernie should declare as a Democrat or go fuck off.

[Bfd]

262. LOL. It really is that simple. Declare as a Dem, & turn over his taxes

[seta1950]

264. Exactly

I agree thank you

[woofless]

266. No.

The Democratic Party needs to get behind the principles that Bernie espouses. You know the same ones that made FDR the most popular President ever. Social Democracy or Corporate plutocracy. You choose. I'll take Bernie.

[Small-Axe]

340. No. FDR was an internationalist, a free-trader, a pro-capitalist...

who wanted the US to enter the war.

FDR despised populism. He called Huey "Share the Wealth" Long (who was the Bernie Sanders of FDR's time) the second most dangerous man in American politics.

Unlike populists who feed off anger and fear, FDR said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

FDR (a great liberal Democrat) was the polar opposite of BS.

FDR was a hero. Bernie, not so much.

[betsuni]

344. I saw "The Way We Were" the other day, and Streisand's character didn't like FDR

when she was in college because she was anti-war, but then later during WW2 when she met Redford's character again, she loved FDR. I guess people forget he wanted the US to enter the war because new myths about him promoted for political purposes.

[Small-Axe]

361. Correct. The far-left attacked FDR as a warmonger, and a corporatist plutocrat...

and now they want to wrap themselves in his mantle.

I'm quite sure FDR would be appalled by the attempted appropriation of his legacy.

FDR: a proud liberal Democrat.

[nvme]

274. He is ok when we need his vote

Bernie ran for the Democratic Party nomination in 2016 right? In fact, I voted for him in Florida's primary. I welcome some of his criticism of the D who are trying to be R-lite. He energized many people and he pushed the party to be a lil more leftist. He did not create the fears of the middle class white male 45-54 voters. It was Drumpf who played into their fears and Fux news that helped damage the image of Hillary. That and Comey's reopening of the investigation 11 days before the electorate. Bernie has been challenging the status quo and has forced our party to look at Liberalism as something that is honorable. If he has made mistakes and said offensive shit that happens, but to say he should disappear is pretty lousy. The refuse to ask him to vote with our party if you want to be so purist.

[Glamrock]

276. Perhaps if he had a D after his name

And rallied the expulsion of an extremely beloved and effective Dem senator he'd be more acceptable, yeah? Possibly even presidential material. Or maybe if he voted with the GOP as often as some red state democrats might do it for you. Fucking ridiculous. He doesn't need to "sail off into the sunset".

He's pushing the Democratic party back to it's FDR roots. I'm sorry if that's inconvenient, but it is the truth. Our standard bearer said we would never, ever have universal health care. Now, every Democratic contender for '20 has co-sponsored his bill for universal health care.

He was out campaigning for Democrats the whole season, including those who beat his primary preferences. It's time to let go of your '16 primary grudges.

[Marty Marzipan]

277. If you're fine with corporate control of healthcare, and if you think college should be bankrupting

… then by all means, support a nice moderate Democrat.

America is shifted so far to the right compared to other industrialized nations. A Democratic moderate would look centre-right to a European. Explain to them what 'pre-existing conditions' means. This country needs a real change, and this change is not going to be done by corporate-sponsored Democrats.

[JHan]

280. Give some fucking names, any fucking name.

of a "nice moderate dem" intent on running for president who wants to fuck college kids over.

I'll wait.

[betsuni]

281. There are never any fucking names, no examples of these imaginary Democrats.

It's like waiting to catch sight of Nessie. I will sit with you waiting for a little while.

[JHan]

282. or one who wishes for "corporate control of healthcare", just more bullshit boilerplate memes.

it never ends.

[betsuni]

284. The propaganda is so silly, I'm embarrassed for anyone shilling it.

It does never end.

[JHan]

299. all to defend a shit statement. This is where we've reached.

[Wintryjade]

322. Democrats have been on it and made progress on both those issues well before and without, Sanders.

[Jack Bone]

286. Yeah...That racist Bernie Sanders...

Most of you probably weren’t even born yet...


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bernie-sanders-1963-chicago-arrest-20160219-story.html

[Eric J in MN]

287. Bernie Sanders was just re-elected.

He has the most favorability with his constituents of any US Senator.

With regard to his endorsements, they aren’t magical. He endorsed candidates who won (Keith Ellison, Tammy Baldwin, Chuy Garcia, etc.) and candidates who lost (Ben Jealous, Jess King, Christine Hallquist, etc.) A couple of races are too close to call (Andrew Gillum, Stacey Abrams.)

[jon k]

294. And that's Great!

I hope he will continue caucusing with Democrats as he serves his full term as a Senator from Vermont.

[JCanete]

293. The GOP uses him less than it uses Clinton and Pelosi. That's a pretty bad reason to suggest

that people need to sail off into the sunset. Sorry.

Candidates he endorsed did horribly? Is he in the business of simply picking winners and losers? Another poor argument.

I disagree with your assessment on D and there's a thread on that.

He does not serve to divide democrats. You have no evidence to support your claim that he's done any harm to the party.

He is not a democrat is a pointless issue of labels that has no earthly value in and of itself. I'm glad you care so much about nonsense. It certainly didn't hold up democratic senators who refused to say who they'd support if that beacon of D Joe Lieberman lost his primary to Lamont....but I assume, given this window dressing of a criterion, that in a theoretical matchup, you would have literally voted for somebody like Lieberman over a Sanders even though the voting records are resoundingly in favor of Sanders when it comes to progressivism.

Thanks for playing.

[Power 2 the People]

333. +1000

[IndianaKev]

298. Beware

The troll. Let’s quit falling for this one.

[janterry]

303. Would you like Vermont to sail off, too?

Because we love him here.

[delisen]

311. Have you considered diversifying?

I think an active Vermont Diversification program would be incredibly inspiring.

[Vinca]

355. I live right across the river from you so I'm really aware of Vermont politics.

Bernie is probably the most beloved politician in Vermont since George Aiken (re Vietnam - "Declare victory and get out.&quot . If every state had a left-leaning Senator they loved as much, we'd be much better off as a nation. On election night on MSNBC the race was called for Bernie with 0% of the votes counted. I'm glad you don't listen to the advice of "flatlanders." LOL.

Note: somehow my punctuation is creating an emoji where I don't want one. Sigh . . . ignore.

[lostnfound]

305. Canvassed for him, should not run again, horrified by racist comment but get it

I do NOT want him to run again
I canvassed for him and named my dog after him..,
I do NOT want him to run again

His comment was racist, the definition of racism
I went to all-white schools for eleven years
Never knew any black people
Believed in equality, hated racisms and felt inspired by civil rights movement I saw on tv as a small child
Thought people who judged others based on race were primitive and stupid
I saw MLK as the best hero and I didn’t blame people like Malcolm X for being angry
When I started college I was assigned an African American woman as my roommate, freshman year
I wasn’t “comfortable”, but I was excited that I’d get to know her and within the first few nights I told her that I was happy to having her as a roommate because I’d never known any black people before
That was all racist too
I was very sad and hurt that she chose to request a different roommate within a few days
I was well-meaning, but racist
Like Bernie
He lives in a lily white state which probably contains a lot of well-meaning people with a theoretical belief in justice but not a lot of real life familiarity
He is putting into words the ignorance I had when I was 17. He sees it in people he knows.

He has spent his life fighting for good things
He has been on a long journey
I still respect him
He should NOT run again
He is an ally in the senate and deserves to stay as long as Vermonters want him there
But I hope he doesn’t run again

[Demsrule86]

317. +1000 great post. This is the best post on this thread.

[lostnfound]

358. Well thank you

Thought I might get flamed for it 🤣

[Demsrule86]

377. You are very welcome...been gone helping kids lay floor.

[dameatball]

326. Bernie threads are like buses. If you miss one another will be along in ten minutes.

[empedocles]

327. Another barge load of this kind of stuff

With no apparent enlightenment

[Gothmog]

334. It seems that some of sanders progressives were the margin of victory for DeSantis

It looks like members of sanders progressive base who had issues voting for an African American candidate were the margin of victory for DeSantis

Link to tweet

[Croney]

354. Yes, and the Rethugs love it, and will try to make it happen every time.

[Gothmog]

359. Rove used Nader just as Putin/Trump used Stein and sanders

I will never forgive nader Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....

On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined “GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independent’s Bid a Financial Lift,” and reported that the Nader campaign “has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party,” according to “an analysis of federal records.” Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egan’s other friends. Mr. Egan’s wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was “Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year.” Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under “Swift Boat Veterans for Nader,” that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that “the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Nader’s signatures in their state” (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing state’s 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bush’s big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, “A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.”

It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bush’s real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. That’s why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.

[williamgreen]

335. Or maybe...

Bernie Sanders is just a factor in Democratic politics because many people have been actually interested in some of what he's been saying. Trump may be supported by people who are racist, but independents who just wanted someone different voted for Trump too.

We know healthcare is a huge issue and I think Bernie Sanders was talking about it more than anyone in 2016.

And I don't think you can just slam the door on Bernie and expect everything to be wonderful and for Democrats to win all elections from 2020 onward.

This destructive grudge holding over the Hillary vs Bernie contest is what's going to hurt us more. This party needs to plan a strategy that includes intelligent ideas and NEW leaders who embody the future of the party. Clearly the broader electorate wasn't as inspired as we needed them to be in 2016. Blame Bernie or blame Hillary or blame the Russians. Maybe we should ban all three of them from participating in the 2020 elections so we can move on.

[marble falls]

337. Welcome to DU. Hold onto your hat!

[fleabiscuit]

341. OK

[betsuni]

351. ...

[NurseJackie]

365. ...

[pdsimdars]

352. So jarring to see authoritrianism like Trump's on the right.

Strange. They oust anyone who speaks against their dear leader. You see that everywhere there is authoritarianism. Hmmmm