Why do some Dems want to get rid of Pelosi?

[LAS14]

I see lots of talk about it, but I've never really seen a reason. (To be honest, I haven't followed this closely.) Does anyone say she's done anything wrong? Or is it just "too long in the job?" Or is it "The Republicans have won. They've made her too toxic for the public?"

[In It to Win It]

1. They believed the GOP Nancy the villain hype

[bullimiami]

10. This is exactly true.

The republican machine has been relentlessly beating on Pelosi.

This is the same thing they did to beat down Hillary.

Unfortunately its difficult to keep this in perspective when you hear is coming again and again and
some people cant see how they are being influenced by propaganda.

[LAS14]

16. Yeah, but their slander has been that she's too far left.

That doesn't seem like something that would persuade democrats. Is the anti-Nancy crowd far to the right?

[brush]

51. Frankly, there are some DINOs in our caucus (cough, #FiveWhiteGuys, cough).

[Garrett78]

56. That is their claim. That and she's too polarizing.

If they had, instead, targeted her for being too focused on so-called "identity politics" and not focused enough on the *white* working class, they could have built a stronger coalition. Because that bogus narrative is what unites the likes of Tim Ryan and some on the left.

But suggesting Pelosi is too far left isn't going to win over many leftists.

[Hortensis]

32. Yes. Why would the top woman in American politics be under

attack by young, supposedly idealistic people on the left who are thrilled and excited to be part of this "year of the woman"? Why are our male leaders safe?

Why would young idealistic activists risk turning the new 116th Democratic house into a failed caucus, endangering all their goals, by joining with the Republicans who are trying to take out a proven highly competent leader without having the slightest idea who and what would replace her?

Why would young idealistic activists have the very same goals as the "#fivewhitemen" male establishment congressmen who've never been part of leadership but see opportunity for personal gain in attacking her?

Why would any Democrats have very the same goal as the Republican Party and right-wing black money donors, and even Russia for god's sake?!

VERY good question, and I suggest they themselves look to those they're reading and listening to and ask them some questions. Who really, why really, what purpose really?

[Buckeyeblue]

2. Because we have allowed repugs to demonize strong women

Clinton
Pelosi
Warren

The repugs go after strong women in a way that they never go after men. Because that is what the fear.

And we have allowed this to happen. We don't push back enough.

[hughee99]

8. Is that why they are pushing Marcia Fudge?

Because they don’t like strong women?

[Mister Ed]

15. Fudge is someone the GOP hasn't yet smeared.

Put her in the limelight, and right-wing propagandists will be aiming their slime cannons at her in short order.

[hughee99]

22. No doubt, but the post I was responding to appeared

To be suggesting that their issue with Pelosi was that she was a “strong woman”. If that were their actual issue, though, why would they be pushing for Fudge?

[Trueblue Texan]

25. Pelosi is not only a strong woman...

...she's a woman who has a lot of experience observing and matching their game effectively. That scares the shit out of them. So of course they're going to come after her...just like they did Hilary. But if the Dems don't stand by Pelosi, the entire country will be the loser. We should be smart enough to know this is just part of their game.

[hughee99]

26. I think we are talking about two different things.

I know how the republicans are and what they’ll do, I believe the poster I was responding to was speculating as to why the DEMS (the handful not on board with Pelosi) were looking to replace her. I don’t believe it is their fear of a “strong woman” or some sort of undercurrent of misogyny given that their preferred candidate is Fudge.

[Mister Ed]

31. Yes. I think we're all talking about different "theys".

The "they" who can't abide a strong woman would be Republicans, while the "they" who admire Fudge's strength, and might like to see her as Speaker, would be Democrats.

[Buckeyeblue]

28. Agreed. I follow politics and I don't know much about her.

She better be tough as nails because the repugs will do everything they can to rattle her and make her into some venom spewing castrator.

[DeminPennswoods]

37. The rest of them are white men is why

The 5whiteguys know they can't put themselves forward to lead an increasing diverse caucus that just elected a record number of women.

[hughee99]

41. So you are saying that they want to get rid of Pelosi

And replace her with Fudge because “republicans demonize strong women”, or are you saying they don’t really want Fudge either because they don’t really want a woman at all, but they know they can’t suggest a white man?

[DeminPennswoods]

42. Your second reason

nt

[hughee99]

45. Okay, so Dems just worked to elect these people, who are sexists?

Nt

[DeminPennswoods]

46. IMHO, Ryan and Moulton are just outright ambitious

The rest of the gang either wants something ala Fudge and Higgins fm NY or has an axe to grind.

[hughee99]

48. Okay, fair enough. It sounds like you think this is just about political opportunism.

If that's the case, I think you're probably right. I don't think this is because of racism or sexism, I think this is just about some people in the house trying to flex their political mussel to either raise their profile or get a better assignment as part of a deal. There were also some dems from more conservative areas just looking to keep a campaign promise to not vote for Pelosi with no real intention of causing any significant damage to the party.

[brush]

52. #FiveWhiteGuys tried to use Fudge by pushing her out to run against Pelosi as they...

themselves apparently don't have the courage to run.

Fudge though, not being an idiot, cut a deal for herself with soon-to-be Speaker Pelosi—a subcommittee chairwomanship on elections and vote suppression.

[hughee99]

55. Those 5 white guys are Dems that the party just

Worked hard to get elected.

[brush]

58. Better than repugs getting in. Right. But, they're not helping with this divisive crap.

Come January 3 we need to be united so as to hit the ground running and begin investigating trump.

I understand Rep. Schiff wants to open an investigation into trump and his family's involvement in Saudi Arabia (the Khashoggi murder and dismemberment).

That is just one of many investigations of the debacle that is the trump admin. We don't need disruptions or delays on that. Why it was just reported that one DINO even threaten to vote for McCarthy for speaker.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

3. If they cant win elections, split the party w narrative from pundants on tv.

The media is owned by the right. We saw that on display again on election night. Don't take the bait. Pelosi and Clinton have these people dialed in, and they know it. Forward w proven leaders. Never mind the nattering.

[Vinca]

4. Unfortunately, they have taken the GOP bait. They should be doing the exact opposite.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. She's not being crowned Queen of the World. The Speaker is more of an administrative position than anything else. I've never even heard a brouhaha over Speaker until the GOP ginned up their Pelosi narrative. Democrats shouldn't be falling for this shit.

[Trueblue Texan]

23. absolutely agree with you!

Think about it! Don't be so willing to be conned. If the Republicans hate her big deal! They hate everyone who isn't one of them! And the better they are at fighting the Rethugs, the more they are hated by them!

[MariaCSR]

5. But Trump stated that he was in support of her being speaker.

Isnt that a bad sign?

I'm asking honestly.

[Little Star]

11. Hw was being sarcastic when he said that. He..............

said that he would even supply her with Republican votes to win the speakership.
Forth paragraph down: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/us/politics/pelosi-trump-house-speaker.html

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

6. I think as simple as...

Her saying impeachment was “off the table” for Bush. I believe a lot of people are still pissed about that.

[UniteFightBack]

7. Why is Seth Moulton leading this charge? I know he's been at it for some time. Does he want the

job? He was on the tube saying that the people voted for change and that means Nancy's gotta go.

[Autumn]

18. Centrists don't want progressives in charge. He's the one who fears change.

[Calista241]

9. Several reasons.

1) she’s a lightning rod on the right. They hate her, and that hatred mobilizes their base.
2) she’s been around forever, and the Dems are going after voters from a changing, younger demographic

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. Thank you...you stated that perfectly for my POV. We are entering a period now when to me

We will need to influence people more than ever before. For that reason, it’s never good to start in a position from below zero. Maybe it’s because I live in a deep red area now, but all you have to do is mention her name and it’s a dog whistle for everyone to come out from under their rocks. If she is the one who, for instance, announces that there is proof that trump conspired with Putin on the election...every single deplorable will discount it and she will be denounced and ridiculed to the nth degree. It’s like she is already primed.

Agree, a new leader will eventually be in the same position, but it will take time for low infos to even learn who they are. Gives us a brief honeymoon to sway as many people as possible to dump trump either through impeachment or in 2020.

[LAS14]

17. How could the opinion of the Repug base affect our choice for speaker? nt

[Calista241]

24. Simple survival maybe?

There are lots of good people in the Dem party. And if the Repub party has trouble motivating their supporters to show up at the polls, then I’m all for it.

[beachbum bob]

12. Pelosi is an elitist for starters, and no matter how well intentioned, remains one.

Not saying she isn't savvy or knows how to be an excellent leader.

[melm00se]

13. Because she represents

the "old guard" of the Democratic party. She has been in Congress since 1987 and since 2011 has been the House minority leader who has done very little (this recent midterm election notwithstanding) to wrest control of the House from the Republicans.

[Johnny2X2X]

19. Branding

Here's the deal, people don't want her to be the brand of the Democratic Party. They see how Republicans have come to power this last decade while making Pelosi a pariah and they get nervous. Does the party need to change? Can the party change with Pelosi still the head of it?

For me, all I care about is winning in 2020. No one in the parties feeling mean a thing to me, including Nancy Pelosi's. If Pelosi gives us the best chance to win, stick with her, if she doesn't then change leadership. That's the only thing that matters.

The GOP ads in my state most definitely mentioned her. Republicans tried to run against her and the Dems had a huge night. Was it as big as it could be? Not sure.

But also, I do know that she has the most experience to keep the Dem coalition together and focused in the House.

[Trueblue Texan]

20. Republican/Russian propaganda

They've done the same thing to Nancy Pelosi that they did to Hillary Clinton. They've made her into a crook, a con, a hate-filled bitch. and why? cuz they are SCARED shitless that she knows what the hell she's doing and knows how to handle their bullshit. If you are a Democrat or if you simply believe in Democracy, I hope you do not fall for these tactics. She only has to be a "lightening rod for the other side" because she's a woman, and a Democratic woman to boot. And that she's an effective leader is REALLY terrifying to them. Stick with Speaker Pelosi BECAUSE the Republicans are scared to death of her. Do NOT buy in to their lies and mischaracterization of a great American leader! Support her as Speaker and let's take back our Democracy!

[LAS14]

33. All of the house Dem caucus are Democrats, except for Sanders and King, right?

So why would they fall for this? I'm sure they didn't where Hillary is concerned. In other words, I don't see how Repug's demonizing her would hurt her chances as speaker.

[Victor_c3]

21. I've been trying to figure this out myself

Speakership, in my opinion, should be all about experience and not “new blood”.

She isn’t as warm and bubbly in front of the camera as others might be, but she is effective - just look at the republican hatred of her to attest to her effectiveness.

I see no reason to boot her from that job (or who I would prefer to see in that specific spot)

[muntrv]

27. The GOPee would demonize Steny Hoyer if he were to be speaker.

Whoever the speaker is will be lightning rod.

[StevieM]

29. I think Pelosi will be elected as Speaker. I also think the whole leadership team will be retiring

after 2020. Pelosi, Hoyer, and Clyburn may all retire at once.

We may then elect our first Latino Speaker, Ben Ray Lujan.

[Hotler]

30. I think it's time to stop playing nice with the repugs.

Every time we have tried to play nice they shit on us and I am tired of it. I don't think Madam Speaker has the (junk yard dog fight in her) that is needed for this battle ahead of us. She's too much of a lady and I don't want to see her get hurt so to speak.

[Trueblue Texan]

36. Yeah! Pelosi fights like a girl!

And those Rethugs are scared to death of her! She and Shumer did an amazing job holding the destruction of Democracy at bay. She is the best leader for the House we can hope for and we'd better have sense enough to recognize it. So WHAT if the other side characterizes her as a lightning rod? She gets things DONE. She knows how to pull the ropes that take this ship in the direction we need to go. She'll retire soon enough and then the right can start demonizing the next most effective leadership in the Democratic Party. Who will their next "lightning rod" be?

[Gothmog]

34. Nancy Pelosi is one of the party's most effective leaders

The GOP has spent a ton of money attacking Nancy Pelosi because she is so effective. There is a reason why the GOP has spent that much money. I do not think that we should reward the GOP's bogus attacks

[LAS14]

35. I've figured it out.

I was puzzled why so many replies here pointed to Republican demonizing of Pelosi, like they did to Hillary. Why should Dem representatives care? Then, DUH, it hit me. They care because their constituents have bought the Republican slander and they had to abandon Pelosi to get elected. I don't know why that wasn't clear to me from the start.

[DeminPennswoods]

38. The reason is simple, Ryan and Moulton are ambitious pols

No more complicated than that. They managed to gather up a few other incumbent Dems who have an axe to grind with Pelosi or have their own ambitions and a few incoming freshmen who got spooked by the GOP attack ads to use to advance their own personal policital ambition.

[Tarc]

39. Because we're a democracy? There doesn't have to be a reason, other than

"I wanna run things." That's why people run for any office.

I support Pelosi remaining as Speaker, but a healthy political party has debates lie this. As long as the losing side remains in the party, all is well.

[oberliner]

40. She is almost 80

[DFW]

43. So are Sanders and Biden

And there are people around who think they walk on water.

[oberliner]

47. People have cited their ages as well

Personally, I do not think age should be a factor. I was just mentioning that some do see that as a reason to choose someone else.

[DFW]

49. I agree with Howard in principle, but even he doesn't consider it an ironclad rule

He always says "ideally." After all, he backed Hillary last time, and she is older than he is. He also said that if NOBODY of substance had jumped in last time, he almost considered it himself. He said that as opposed to 2003-2004, now he not only knew how to run a campaign, but he also knew the ins and out of the job itself. Hillary did finally jump in, and he went with her, so he doesn't categorically refuse to back candidates who don't fit his ideal model. One can have their preferences and still do that.

[oberliner]

50. Good points

It is always interesting to see how these things play out.

[Hortensis]

57. You should be inspired by her being 78. How could you be

able to out-stamina much younger people when you are 78, assuming you're among the many who will live well past that, of course. If you can't do that now, it's probably not a reachable goal later on, but how about just being able to still do everything you do now at that age?

From Roll Call:

Nancy Pelosi Is the Best Woman for the Job:
To dismiss her and her pile of achievements is to buy into GOP propaganda

Cue the ‘Jaws’ Soundtrack, Pelosi Is Hunting for Votes: California Democrat has long displayed a knack for winning tough votes


All the Post-Election Questions You Were Too Afraid to Ask: With special guest Professor U.R. Wise, scholar of the later campaigns of Harold Stassen

https://www.rollcall.com/opinion-and-analysis

Nancy 5 days ago (Oberliner, can you work 14-hour days in those shoes?) :

?quality=90&auto=webp

[oberliner]

59. Yes, she is very impressive

[DFW]

44. Why did some Democrats want to get rid of Al Franken or even Hillary Clinton

Just because phony negative themes made up out of thin air are Republican in origin, it does not mean some Democrats are immune to them if properly packaged, and no one packages stinking piles of shit better than Republicans.

[lancelyons]

53. Because the GOP has turned her into their boogey monster and these dems have went along.

[dlk]

54. One Word - Misogyny

How many male politicians in Pelosi's age group are routinely asked to step down/retire/ride off into the sunset? I can't think of one. There is a deep vein of misogyny that runs through our country that hasn't been adequately addressed. It took nearly 100 years for women to gain the right to vote and in 2018, women still don't have equal protection under the law--many still fight against equal pay for equal work. Some biases are so deeply-seated they are taken for granted as normal. They shouldn't be.

[Polybius]

60. The same reason that some Republicans wanted to get rid of Paul Ryan

Each Party's base is always more conservative and liberal than their leaders, who on both sides tend to be more establishment. That's why you never saw Jesse Helms and Paul Wellstone as Majority Leaders, not will we ever see Steve King or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as Speaker.