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TomSlick

(10,978 posts)
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:37 PM Dec 2018

That chaps my retired Army ass.

Just saw Individual 1 at the capital rotunda for Bush.

When Cadet Bonespurs was ready to leave, he attempted to render a military salute. I have reconciled myself to Presidents returning the salute from aircrews when they board Air Force or Marine One. Other than that, civilians should simply place their hand over the heart. I would prefer that Cadet Bonespurs not even do that.

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That chaps my retired Army ass. (Original Post) TomSlick Dec 2018 OP
Thank you for the clarification HipChick Dec 2018 #1
Here's a good rule. TomSlick Dec 2018 #4
Trump salutes to try to look serious. July Dec 2018 #33
I agree with that, I think. Goodheart Dec 2018 #2
Clearly not. TomSlick Dec 2018 #5
He was probably relying on his Little Lord Commander Marmalade title. aikoaiko Dec 2018 #3
I take his salute as an affront to any who have served. TomSlick Dec 2018 #6
He Showed Up? Me. Dec 2018 #7
Malaria was with him. TomSlick Dec 2018 #10
Ah...Thank You Me. Dec 2018 #12
Reagan started the tradition of presidents giving a military salute Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2018 #8
Another thing to hold against Raygun. TomSlick Dec 2018 #11
Well, Reagan thought he was still on the back lot of MGM Haggis for Breakfast Dec 2018 #23
I shouldn't let it get under my skin so but it really does. TomSlick Dec 2018 #26
My Dad, who served in the USMC in Korea (in Chosin) Haggis for Breakfast Dec 2018 #29
You Forgot To Mention That He Was Cheating On His Wife ProfessorGAC Dec 2018 #34
When he was president Eisenhower didn't even salute the troops dflprincess Dec 2018 #19
Well, Reagan was a veteran. GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #20
Raygun, it is reported above, started the current practice of the President TomSlick Dec 2018 #22
No, not even Eisehower. Nt dflprincess Dec 2018 #27
Carter was a Navy man. nt tblue37 Dec 2018 #32
When I was a raw recruit, I did a really bad salute to an officer... cynatnite Dec 2018 #9
I think Cadet Bonespurs gave it his best shot. TomSlick Dec 2018 #13
I disagree. He should had tried. LiberalFighter Dec 2018 #16
When I was a new Sailor Haggis for Breakfast Dec 2018 #25
I saw that, too. Maybe that's how they taught him to salute at the Atticus Dec 2018 #14
thanks, I didn't know Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2018 #15
I've given up on the President returning a salute from a service member. TomSlick Dec 2018 #17
K&R UTUSN Dec 2018 #18
Everything that trump does is a con and his fantasy of being worthwhile thbobby Dec 2018 #21
I've never served, and I'd never fake a salute. Iggo Dec 2018 #24
I was taught to only salute when covered (Navy) pecosbob Dec 2018 #28
I have done some reading on this lately. TomSlick Dec 2018 #30
I believe the Marine Corps also made some minor changes to their regs about ten years ago or so pecosbob Dec 2018 #31
The Navy is all about tradition. TomSlick Dec 2018 #36
Just curious, would it chap your retired Army ass if Obama saluted? JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2018 #35
Yes. TomSlick Dec 2018 #38
I completely agree. cwydro Dec 2018 #37

July

(4,749 posts)
33. Trump salutes to try to look serious.
Tue Dec 4, 2018, 06:41 AM
Dec 2018

Alas, he cannot accomplish that. Ever.

Let's not forget that he has also saluted a North Korean general and the Lincoln sculpture at the Lincoln Memorial.

He's playing grown-up, badly.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(106,311 posts)
8. Reagan started the tradition of presidents giving a military salute
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:47 PM
Dec 2018

On the History Channel they showed a film of Woodrow Wilson and General Pershing reviewing the troops. Pershing is giving a military salute while Wilson has his top hat removed and over his heart.

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
23. Well, Reagan thought he was still on the back lot of MGM
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:34 PM
Dec 2018

making war pictures with Nancy (Remember "Hellcats of the Navy" ? I will groan for you.)

This Sailor agrees with you. Civilians should place hand over heart. If you didn't wear the uniform, exactly why would you try to effect something you never did before ?

TomSlick

(10,978 posts)
26. I shouldn't let it get under my skin so but it really does.
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:42 PM
Dec 2018

When someone who didn't serve salutes, it seems like mocking.

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
29. My Dad, who served in the USMC in Korea (in Chosin)
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:57 PM
Dec 2018

said exactly that. It felt like a mockery. Didn't go down with him either.

ProfessorGAC

(63,864 posts)
34. You Forgot To Mention That He Was Cheating On His Wife
Tue Dec 4, 2018, 07:13 AM
Dec 2018

While making those war pictures with Nancy No-Talent. (Not that he was any skilled actor.)

dflprincess

(27,998 posts)
19. When he was president Eisenhower didn't even salute the troops
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 09:30 PM
Dec 2018

because, by then, he was a civilian. Though it would have been forgivable if Ike had kept saluting.

Reagan was just playing a part.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
20. Well, Reagan was a veteran.
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 09:34 PM
Dec 2018

Serious question? Before Reagan, did Presidents who were Veterans salute? I was a little young to pay attention with Carter.

I will have to look it up.

I would our president not salute even if a veteran. It would reinforce the Civilian principal.

TomSlick

(10,978 posts)
22. Raygun, it is reported above, started the current practice of the President
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:43 PM
Dec 2018

returning the salute of service members.

I agree, even if a veteran, the President ought not salute to reinforce the idea of civilian control of the military.

cynatnite

(31,011 posts)
9. When I was a raw recruit, I did a really bad salute to an officer...
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:47 PM
Dec 2018

He pulled me aside and gave me some pointers. Saluted three or four times until he was sure I got it right.

I hate sloppy salutes and I'm with you on leaving AF1. That's different. I didn't see this, but it sounded like it was half-assed anyway with no real attempt for it to be respectful.

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
25. When I was a new Sailor
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:40 PM
Dec 2018

I was always getting gigged on my salute. I have Wartenburg's, which affects the radial nerve branch (that's in the wrist) of the thumb, specifically, the ulnar surface, so my thumb just does NOT lay straight against the palm of my hand. I did strengthening exercises to improve it, but never did get it completely squared away. I heard about it constantly.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
14. I saw that, too. Maybe that's how they taught him to salute at the
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:58 PM
Dec 2018

New York Military Academy where he was a captain in his senior year. "Lots of people say" that's as good as any other "military experience".

Three year old "John-John" Kennedy executed a better salute as his father's casket passed.

Hermit-The-Prog

(32,576 posts)
15. thanks, I didn't know
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:59 PM
Dec 2018

The President is in a weird situation -- Commander In Chief, yet civilian. That made me think it was at least not improper to return a military salute.

Of course, with the illegitimate pres we have nothing is proper.

TomSlick

(10,978 posts)
17. I've given up on the President returning a salute from a service member.
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 09:04 PM
Dec 2018

It's an awkward situation, so I'll cut some slack.

Veterans in civies may render a military salute for the National Anthem - think at sporting events. I always render a salute when the colors pass in parades in my small town.

Civilians salute the flag by placing their right hand (and any hat) over the heart.

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
21. Everything that trump does is a con and his fantasy of being worthwhile
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:30 PM
Dec 2018

Bad Salute. Not knowing words to National Anthem. Lecturing NFL on respecting the flag.

He is a draft dodger and a thief. Nothing from him surprises me.

I agree with TomSlick. Do not salute if you have not served. Respect, pure and simple.

pecosbob

(7,439 posts)
28. I was taught to only salute when covered (Navy)
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:51 PM
Dec 2018

and never in civvies...it's in the regs. And for the record, I too find if mildly offensive when civilians salute, but I chalk it up to most people being dumbasses. From a draft dodger I find it insulting.

TomSlick

(10,978 posts)
30. I have done some reading on this lately.
Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:59 PM
Dec 2018

Some years back, the law was amended to authorize veterans to render a military salute in civvies when the National Anthem is played at outdoor events, when the colors pass in parades, etc. The Navy objected that it was contrary to Navy tradition to salute uncovered. This has created some controversy among Navy veterans.

Being a retired JAG, it is my considered legal opinion that US law trumps Navy tradition and regulations.

I think it's strictly a Navy thing. In Army protocol, a soldiers salutes indoors and uncovered when reporting to a commander.

pecosbob

(7,439 posts)
31. I believe the Marine Corps also made some minor changes to their regs about ten years ago or so
Tue Dec 4, 2018, 12:03 AM
Dec 2018

but you're right, Navy was the odd man out and likely only a Navy man would know to comment on that difference.

TomSlick

(10,978 posts)
36. The Navy is all about tradition.
Tue Dec 4, 2018, 07:46 PM
Dec 2018

As Winston Churchill apparently never said but wished that he had:

“Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the lash.”

(Sorry, as an old Army guy, I couldn't resist.)

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,238 posts)
35. Just curious, would it chap your retired Army ass if Obama saluted?
Tue Dec 4, 2018, 07:44 AM
Dec 2018

Is it the salute that chaps your ass, or is it just Trump?

For this Army draftee, it's Trump that chaps my ass, saluting or not.

TomSlick

(10,978 posts)
38. Yes.
Tue Dec 4, 2018, 07:57 PM
Dec 2018

In keeping with the tradition started by Raygun, Obama returned salutes from service members, e.g. when boarding Air Force or Marine One. I always winched. However, I never saw Obama render a military salute in any other circumstance. If I had seen such a thing, I would have felt obliged to call the White House and ask (as politely as I could) that he not do that again. I may be an old fart but I'm consistent.

It chaps my ass anytime I see someone who never served render a military salute. I would encourage you to salute when you're at a sporting event, etc. and the National Anthem is played or when the colors pass in a parade. You served and earned the privilege.

I came along just after the end of the draft but most of my training was from draftees who continued to serve. My father was a Korean War draftee. My father-in-law was a Vietnam-era draftee but never served OCONUS. I have the greatest respect for people who were drafted and served. Not so much rich kids with bone spurs.

Thank you for serving.

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