Mike Pence is in such deep shit

[ffr]

Mike Pence is in such deep shit tonight
<snip>

Here’s a key unredacted sentence in Robert Mueller’s memo: “[Flynn] assisted the [Special Counsel’s Office] investigation on a range of issues, including interactions between individuals in the Presidential Transition Team and Russia.” As a reminder, the head of the Trump transition team was a guy named Mike Pence. This brings us back to a story that we brought you nearly a year ago.

Back in December of 2017, we all learned that Robert Mueller had obtained all of the emails from every member of the Trump transition team. It was long ago established that when Michael Flynn was illegally conspiring with the Russian Ambassador to sabotage President Obama’s sanctions, he was keeping the transition team in the loop in real time. Yet Mike Pence, the official head of the transition team, went on to publicly claim in January that he had no knowledge of any Flynn contacts with Russia.

So either the entire transition team conspired to keep this information from Pence, or Pence was lying when he went on television and claimed that Michael Flynn hadn’t had any contact with the Russians. Does anyone realistically believe that the transition team unanimously decided to keep this information from Pence for some reason? Our guess is these emails incriminate Pence, and Flynn helped give Pence up. Mike Pence is in such deep shit tonight. There’s no other way to put it. - Palmer Report

From the SCO's Flynn Memo:
The defendant assisted the SCO’s investigation on a range of issues, including interactions between individuals in the Presidential Transition Team and Russia,...redacted.

...Several senior members of the transition team publicly repeated false information conveyed to them by the defendant about communications between him and the Russian ambassador regarding the sanctions...redacted.

[Stand and Fight]

1. Palmer Report? Yeah... No, thank you.

[ffr]

4. So then, you fully discount that Mueller won't connect the dots using the transition emails?

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Mike Pence certainly has a problem. Bill Palmer is just pointing it out.

[FBaggins]

15. I don't trust Palmer to accurately report what the "dots" are...

... let alone how they are connected.

He's too willing to make stuff up - and it's usually the key "dot" that makes a non-story into something he (and often he alone) "reports".

[Eyeball_Kid]

28. Months ago, Rachel reported that Flynn's

attorneys sent Pence letters admitting that Flynn was working for the Turkish government. There were two letters sent to the head of the transition team (Pence!) well before the inauguration, perhaps just after the election. Pence knew that Flynn was acting as a foreign agent and still allowed him access to highly classified documents. THAT, my friends, is a felony.

[FBaggins]

38. I can't find anything matching that description. Can you link?

I remember quite a bit of reporting in 2017 about his attorneys reaching out to a lawyer for the transition asking whether he needed to file... but nothing demonstrating that Pence was aware of something illegal

[ffr]

43. Can't say if this is one of the letters referenced above, but Elijah Cummings sent a letter

to Mike Pence on November 18, 2016, months before Mike Pence's false statements to the press, warning that Flynn's lobbying group was paid to lobby the U.S. Government on behalf of a foreign government's interests..

https://www.yahoo.com/news/michael-flynn-key-trump-aide-sat-in-on-intel-briefings-while-advising-foreign-clients-004512931.html

[Demit]

17. Bill Palmer is guessing.

[Shell_Seas]

7. My first thought too, but...

What if everything that Palmer said was going to happen actually does.

[Cirque du So-What]

14. Not the Palmer Report!

[Hortensis]

19. No kidding. The only results of my searches so far

have been from sucker sources feeding a market for "tell me what I want to hear." I want to hear it too, but I'm not buying hot air. Unfortunately, the most sinister sign is effectively dead silence on this topic.

Here's a thought: Just pretending that Pence was criminally involved and it could be proven, what would happen when the right learned that they were going to lose not only Trump but their safe card, VP Pence? All hell would break loose. How about if it were next year and they learned that, plus Nancy Pelosi would become president? All hell would break loose.

We can be sure that if Pence is a target, absolutely nothing will leak before time.

And no one would be giving huge info like that to someone who doesn't even have the right stuff for the bush leagues like Palmer and the grifters at the "Democratic Coalition" PAC (one of them's also claiming special information and also not revealing it).

[pangaia]

2. president pelosi dum dee dum...

I know i know, ain;t going to happen..YET !!!!!!!!

[ffr]

9. That's the direction this could go if Adam Schiff believes it's a something-burger.

Just need the SCO's investigation to go quiet for about 30 days. At least, on this subject.

[2naSalit]

31. Exactly! ...nt

[marylandblue]

3. Public lies are not crimes, but

If Pence quietly met with Mueller and agreed to cooperate, then it would directly benefit him.

[ffr]

6. As of this moment, we don't have any confirmation that the VP ever met with the SCO

Adam Schiff however, could call Pence in and expose him publicly.

[marylandblue]

10. True, we don't have evidence of that

But I suspect Mueller has had a lot of conversations we don't know about.

[Eyeball_Kid]

29. He never met with Mueller because...

Pence is a target.

[Grasswire2]

42. May it be so. nt

[Qutzupalotl]

20. They are if it's part of a conspiracy.

Lying about that would be an act in furtherance of the conspiracy, covering up. Mueller would have to prove he did so knowingly. That might be possible using his emails, depending on what’s in them.

[JCMach1]

5. Ironically, maybe worse trouble than Trump

[Ohiogal]

8. I'll get out my violin for Pence

He's just as criminal and evil as the rest of them.

[FM123]

27. Yes, Ohiogal - He's just as criminal and evil as the rest of them.

"During a failed 1990 congressional run, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, Donald Trump's newly announced running mate, used nearly $13,000 in campaign funds for a slew of personal purposes, including paying down his mortgage and covering golf tournament fees."

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/mike-pence-13k-campaign-funds-mortgage-golf-fees-article-1.2714118

[hlthe2b]

11. I'd like to think so, but Seth Abramson doesn't belive Pence will face the music...

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

He's spoken about Pence on other occasions, but he's too prolific for me to find those earlier posts... Suffice it to say, Abramson doesn't think Pence will be held accountable and thinks his tracks are covered.

[ffr]

13. I'd still like for Schiff to question the VP. Schiff is smart and I think Pence

has already slipped up on his stories.

[Xipe Totec]

16. Mother has been wearing a wire nt

[Hoyt]

12. If that is all they have on Pence, he's safe, unfortunately. n/t

[Dr Hobbitstein]

18. Palmer Report is a laughable source.

Bill Palmer is quick to make shit up. If you don't see it reported anywhere but the Palmer Report, then I can guarantee it's not true.

[Charlotte Little]

21. +1,000,000

Bill Palmer and Scott Dworkin are playing liberals like fiddles and making buck while they're at it. And yet folks breathlessly report what they report.

And I'd argue the same of Seth Abramson, although I'm likely to get hissed at for stating it, so...

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/04/stop-listening-to-seth-abramson-on-donald-trumps-r.html

[Dr Hobbitstein]

22. Agreed... nt

[ffr]

23. Can any of you three or four above, going back to Hoyt, have anything that refutes

this story?

If you have anything other than opinions that Palmer's report is inaccurate, please correct him where he's wrong. Otherwise, your input is dated and not helpful.

[Charlotte Little]

24. That's exactly like asking

Can any of you prove Big Foot doesn't exist?

There so far has been no credible report that Pence is in the line of fire. And what's funny is that Seth contradicts Bill. So, there. They cancel each other out.

All of these guys are guessing. Not much different than what Louise Mensch does, only minus the BSC. But they are ALL guessing (and asking for liberals to donate money to their guessing game while they are at it) and none of them have an inside line to Mueller or credible evidence. Like fortune tellers, they may actually get lucky on one or two guesses, but they really shouldn't be presented as credible sources, which is what is really not helpful.

[ffr]

32. To bring that up would be to distract with a logical Red Herring fallacy.

Big Foot does not translate.

However, since many of you are so predisposed to toss aside such reporting, maybe this reminder will lend some credibility. From one year ago:

Link to tweet

Don’t forget Flynn may well have highly incriminating evidence about VPOTUS Mike Pence, who claimed that Flynn misled him about Kislyak. Perhaps Pence wasn’t as clueless as he claims. And we know a sitting VP can be indicted and convicted. Recall Agnew.

[Charlotte Little]

33. Not a Red Herring Argument to Use Big Foot

You are asking us to prove that credible reports don't exist that have sources in the know credibly stating that Pence could be caught up in the Flynn net. You are asking us to prove what (so far) doesn't exist, except for one source posted in this thread by Bill Palmer, who is not credible. If you'd like to find credible reporting and post a link, please do.

As for Laurence - "may well have" is not "has." And Laurence doesn't play the Palmer/Dworkin/Abramson game.

I realize you want Pence to go down. I do too. But that doesn't mean any reporting exists that provides credible sources that Mueller is investigating Pence. If he does and Pence does go down, it doesn't mean Palmer knew anything. He's just guessing.

[ffr]

34. Now you're using a Straw Man fallacy

I said "Can any of you three or four above, going back to Hoyt, have anything that refutes this story? i.e. what is false with Palmer's report.

You countered saying "You are asking us to prove that credible reports don't exist that have sources in the know credibly stating that Pence could be caught up in the Flynn net."

I understand we're on the same team somewhat, but to say that Mike Pence is in deep shit, doesn't have to imply only Mueller, it simply states that he's in deep shit. The most likely avenue at the moment would be that Mueller would be the one providing the deep shit, but you are correct, we don't know that at this point. However, Adam Schiff could very well bring up questioning of Mike Pence in four weeks. And based on prior statements from Mike Pence on his Flynn problem, he certainly could be in deep shit.

[Charlotte Little]

39. Actually ffr

I was disputing the source - Palmer. He isn't credible.

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-palmer-report-bill-louise-mensch-2017-5


When you asked if I have anything to refute his story, I assumed you meant another article to link to. I don't, because they don't exist. I personally don't dispute that Pence may be in deep shit. But there isn't credible reporting that he is in deep shit. It's all just conjecture. So, Palmer is giving his opinion and guessing, but the odds are he does not have credible sourcing to back it. Same with Dworkin. And I personally throw Seth Abramson in that same club, because he often just borrows the tweets of others and puts it out as fact.

There are several liberal-fake-news peddlers, and Palmer is known to be one (he is particularly egregious about using click bait headlines). If you want to believe him (and certainly feel free to agree with him), understand that when you post a thread that states "Mike Pence is in Such Deep Shit" while linking to The Palmer Report, those of use who know the source isn't credible are going to speak up.

Now, if that's Straw Manning or Red Herringing or Big Foot Bunny Hopping - please feel free to just ignore me. Obviously, I didn't take Debate 101 and keep my notes like you did, for which I applaud you.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

36. How about Bill Palmer backing up his bullshit claims?

The onus is on the one making the claims. One does not prove a negative.

Bill Palmer is a known liar. I would not put any faith into him.

[ffr]

37. Where are you getting proving a negative? Your statement is a Straw Man rebuttal

You make a claim that someone else said something that was not said.

The onus is upon you in my rebuttal. If you have anything that can refute (proves false or misleading). The fact that you instead have to resort to an Ad Hominem attack on Bill Palmer ("is a known liar" & "his bullshit claims" ) only erodes the credibility of your rebuttal.

Stick to the facts of the said propositions and defending your position without personal attacks and logical fallacies.

[Charlotte Little]

40. Whoa

Dude, in no way did Dr Hobbitstein personally attack you in his reply. And Palmer is a known liar and his claims are BS.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/palmer-report/

Why demand that we must have a set of facts to counter his non-facts conjecture?

Now, I'm back to Big Foot.

[ffr]

44. Then I'll counter your Big Foot with Elijah Cummings November 18, 2016 letter to Mike Pence

In which he wrote:

Lt. Gen. Flyyn also was paid to travel to Moscow in December 2015 and join Vladimir Putin at the head table during a dinner honoring the Kremlin-backed media network RT. During the event, Lt. Gen. Flynn gave a speech that was highly critical of the United States, stating, “the United States can’t sit there and say, ‘Russia, you’re bad.’”

Lt. Gen. Flynn’s involvement in advising Mr. Trump on matters related to Turkey or Russia–including attending classified briefing son those matters–could violate the Trump for America, Inc. Code of Ethical Conduct...

In order to address this issue, I request tha tyou provide the following information by November 28, 2016:

1. a copy of Lt. Gen. Flynn’s signed Trump for America, Inc., Doce of Ethical Conduct;
2.
3.
4. - https://democrats-oversight.house.gov/sites/.../2016-11-18.EEC%20to%20Pence.pdf

Trump transition was told of Flynn’s lobbying, congressman’s letter to Pence shows - McClatchy March 10, 2017 08:23 PM

Here's Mike Pence two months later blatantly lying on television, knowing full well of Lt. Gen. Flynn's ties with the Kremlin:

@2:35s
"Just to button up one question. Did any advisor or anybody in the Trump campaign have any contact with the Russians...?"

Mike Pence: "Oh of course not..."

Full of BS or not, Bill Palmer may be correct. Mike Flynn is in some deep shit.

[Charlotte Little]

45. May be correct

May be correct.

May be correct.

May be correct.

Thank you for finally admitting that Palmer is guessing. He does not know anything more than you or I do. Only he's making buck off of vulnerable liberals. And every time someone promotes his guesswork, they are legitimizing him to other vulnerable liberals.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/19/15561842/trump-russia-louise-mensch

snippet:

"The Palmer Report, and its creator, little-known journalist Bill Palmer, is kind of a popularizer of the Russiasphere. It reports the same kind of extreme, thinly sourced stuff — for instance, a story titled “CIA now says there’s more than one tape of Donald Trump with Russian prostitutes” — often, though not always, sourced to Mensch and company. This seems to personally irk Mensch, who has occasionally suggested the Palmer Report is ripping her off.

Yet nonetheless, Palmer appears to have built up a real audience. According to Quantcast, a site that measures web traffic, the Palmer Report got around 400,000 visitors last month — more than GQ magazine’s website. The Russian prostitute story was shared more than 41,000 times on Facebook, according to a counter on Palmer’s site; another story alleging that Chaffetz was paid off by Trump and Russia got about 29,000."


I truly hope Pence goes down and maybe Flynn has ratted on him, making Pence a target. But only Mueller, who doesn't leak, knows for sure. Palmer doesn't know for sure that anyone other than those already indicted are in deep shit but you (and I) want Pence to be, so you (not I) want to believe Palmer. As the article explains, it happens.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

41. But he IS a known liar...

He writes bullshit. Period.

[geardaddy]

25. To quote Sean on the Stephanie Miller Show...

"He's up to his albino eyebrows in it."

[samnsara]

26. oh GREAT story!! Pence is a Russian agent....he and 'Mother' are a spy team..

.

[keithbvadu2]

30. If Trump was elected with Russian help/collusion, then so was Pence.

[Roland99]

35. Mother won't be pleased!