What is everyone's position on keeping troops in Syria?

[oberliner]

Do you think it is important for the US to keep troops there? If so, until when?

[drray23]

1. Ultimately we should get out.

However we need an exit strategy. If we just pull out the Kurds who have been our allies will be killed by the Turks. Erdowan has indicated that they would move in and retake this area because they see the Kurds as a threat to their regime.

[oberliner]

2. What would be a good potential exit strategy?

[drray23]

4. No idea. I'm not a military strategist or diplomat.

Which is why people who are expert at this should plan for it. It may involve putting pressure on turkey, negotiating a safe location for the Kurds, etc... I don’t know. The only thing that’s obvious is that pulling out precipitously without a plan is doomed to failure.

[pangaia]

6. I would posit that the people who are 'experts' on this have no idea what they are doing.

[drray23]

8. You would posit wrong.

Trump announced it. Not the Pentagon or the state department. He took everyone by surprise with his tweet. People who actually know what's going on weren't consulted.

[shanny]

26. People who actually know what's going on

still don't know shit.

There are no good guys to back, no good outcome, no good reason to stay. Unless selling more weapons is it.

[pangaia]

35. I know trump announced it.

Please see Shanny's post just below.
Not that the USA is totally responsible for all the world's ills, of course, but we certainly a big player in those ills.
And, vis a vis the Middle East and northern Africa, the West in general and the USA, UK and France in particular are a huge part of the cause of the horror.

[JHan]

56. +++ There's a difference between having an exit strategy,leaving a building through a door..

and uhm.. jumping off the roof of the building.

-_-

[Turbineguy]

3. It's a Hobson's choice.

There was a time wen the U.S. could claim a moral value but those days are long gone.

Of course there will always be American Soldiers who give candy to children.

[guillaumeb]

5. No.

The only reason to do so is so the US can project power in that region.

And protect our own rich people's investments.

[Hekate]

7. What is yours?

Just asking.

[oberliner]

10. I don't think it is important to keep US troops in Syria

But I am open to hearing other views and learning more and possibly having my mind changed if there is a persuasive argument in favor.

[ProudLib72]

11. To keep tabs on the Ruskies?

Prevent humanitarian crises in the north?

Of course, you can argue that someone else can do these jobs as well or better than our military.

[oberliner]

15. 2018 worst year in Syria's humanitarian crisis: U.N. official

BEIRUT (Reuters) - The humanitarian crisis in Syria is worse this year than ever before in the country’s seven-year-old civil war, a United Nations official said on Friday.

“We see in 2018 the humanitarian situation inside Syria being the worst we have seen since the war started: a very dramatic deterioration, massive displacement, disrespect of protection of civilians and people’s lives still being turned upside down,” Panos Moumtzis, U.N. Humanitarian Coordinator for the Syria crisis, said in Beirut.

Syria is the worst place in modern history in terms of attacks on healthcare workers and facilities, accounting for 70 percent of all such attacks worldwide, he said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-humanitarian/2018-worst-year-in-syrias-humanitarian-crisis-u-n-official-idUSKCN1IJ256

[ProudLib72]

19. So do we stay there to back up the UN with military support?

Maybe take out some supply depots where they are hiding chemical agents?

If I could actually trust this was what we were there for, then I would support us staying. I do not trust we are there to prevent gas attacks; therefore, we need to leave.

[oberliner]

42. Personally, I do not see the value in US troops being there

It is unclear to me what their role is.

[Volaris]

55. To keep that lunatic Assad from genociding his own people.

Now, (god I can't believe I'm gonna say this) if there's a Putin plan to effect PEACE through Assad plus increasing Russia's influence along the med coast, I'm game to let that play out for the sake of Not More Genocide.

[rockfordfile]

9. Should never have been in there

[WeekiWater]

12. It does not take a lot of troops in Syria to limit some of the more heinous acts.

Not just our boots but friends as well. It’s limmited impact with big results. The results aren’t noticed as you would then have to prove a negative. I have no issue keeping the presence. Congress must act.

[BigmanPigman]

13. I am a pacifist.

But I am alone which makes the point moot.

[violetpastille]

28. I am pacifist too.

Then there's a pair of us, don't tell! They'll banish us you know!

[BigmanPigman]

29. Our secret..... Shhhhhh.....

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

51. C.O. since before Vietnam.

Conscientious Observer.

[BigmanPigman]

52. I just learned something.

I always thought it was "conscientious objector". I never understood how Nixon could be pro- Vietnam War but also have been a Quaker (they are against war).

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

53. Hmm. I know i was listed w the church myself, but,

I'm not a Quaker. The whole process used to (generally) start in your church. My declaration is still on file. P.S. Your spelling may be correct. I've never known how to truly spell it.
Seasons BEST Greetings BMPM. MErrrrrry Christmas!!

PS...Back in the day that still did'nt waive your draft eligibility, just meant you could "fight" other ways like the beloved Medical Corp., or through the Church as a Priest.

[ucrdem]

14. It probably won't change much.

Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2018, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Trump will agree to various codicils and delays insisted on by various friends and players, and then take back some of those under pressure from others friends and players, and at the end of the day probably change very little. Getting Syria out of the mess it's in ultimately lands where it's been since this started, on Assad's doorstep, and it's up to him to figure out how to end it. And if he goes things will get even worse and that includes the refugee crisis that gave us Brexit and Trump with more to come.

Just my $.02!

[RainCaster]

16. Like everything else DFT has done, you can't shoot from the hip

He pulled this out of his ass, and tweeted it before his staff could ask him WTF.

[oberliner]

17. Irrespective of that

Do you think there is a compelling reason for the US to have troops in Syria?

[pecosbob]

18. Ostensibly we are in Syria and Iraq to fight Sunni terrorists (ISIS or Daesh) on behalf of Iraq

To continue to do so while we support their paymasters (Salman al Saud, et al.) is self-defeating. Assad of Syria wants ISIS defeated as Syria is a Shiaa majority state and supports their neighbor, Iran, another Shiia-majority state. Iran supports the new Iraqi state which is also Shiia majority and also finances groups that are fighting in various Sunni states. The Saudis, Turkey and Israel (at least Likud) and Exxon all want a war with Iran and all foment the civil war in Syria. So were sitting in the middle of a proxy war with Russia supporting Syria and Iran while all the Sunni states (with the exception of Quatar) covertly support ISIS and would like to see control of Iraq return to the Sunnis and probably wouldn't mind seeing Assad removed from power.

So my long-winded point is that we're supporting Assad in a roundabout way by fighting ISIS at the same time we're helping to finance ISIS by supporting the Saudis. Sounds pretty dumb to me...

[Mosby]

20. I think we should stay.

And continue to help the opposition and erode the capabilities of ISIS etal as best we can.

[shanny]

27. who are "the opposition"? Assad?

Mythical moderates? Al Qaeda and affiliates/

There isn't anyone worthy of our support, and no good outcome. We should just get the eff out.

[Mosby]

31. our presence in the north is important

By working with the Turks, we are able to protect the Kurdish areas by keeping them in check.

[oberliner]

40. Aren't the Turks the ones who are attacking the Kurds?

[Mosby]

50. thats what I meant, just poorly written

We help protect the Kurdish areas by keeping the Turks close so they don't try and move into those areas.

[moondust]

21. Maybe bad for the Kurds.

U.S. troop presence there may be preventing Erdogan from launching more attacks on the Kurds who apparently depend on U.S. air cover.

In any case, you don't do something this consequential without first consulting Defense, State, and members of Congress.

[oberliner]

39. The Turkish forces seem to be attacking the Kurds anyway

I am sure that our troops would attack Turkish troops in defense of the Kurds. Aren't they a member of NATO?

[moondust]

43. "blatant betrayal"

~
The planned US pullout was announced as Turkey was preparing to send its military into Syria to confront Kurdish militias that it says threaten its sovereignty. The US-backed Kurds are drawn from the same Kurdish groups – a point that has caused friction between Ankara and Washington throughout the four-year campaign against Isis.

The SDF and the YPG, a partner Kurdish militia, described the move as a “blatant betrayal”. One Kurdish leader contacted by the Guardian said the fight against Isis in Syria’s far east would be abandoned immediately, and all SDF units on that front would redeploy closer to the Turkish border.
~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100211571077

[oberliner]

44. Obama was accused of betraying the Kurds in 2014

[moondust]

46. Well,

Obama obviously didn't leave them high and dry by pulling out all their U.S. support. No doubt the Kurds wanted more U.S. support than they got but they weren't totally abandoned.

[oberliner]

47. I understand the POV of the Kurds

It's definitely a bad situation all around no matter what.

[Xolodno]

22. Syria, Turkey and Russia wants us out.

And given we've failed....well, never had a chance really, to influence a new government that excludes Assad...and some of the groups we were supporting weren't exactly "better". Well, lets take a step back but keep an eye out for any resurgence of ISIS.

However, Trump did so the wrong way. We should have negotiated with Turkey and Russia in regards to the Kurds. Allow them to withdraw to negotiated lines and demand to allow us to provide humanitarian aid. Kurds may not like it, but we didn't have much interest other than eliminating most of ISIS and containing the rest.

I think the "diminish our influence in the region" line is also puzzling. Since when did we ever have significant influence in Syria?

[GulfCoast66]

23. I am no pacifist and a moderate by DU standards.

But I want us out. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I have no doubt trump is doing this for Putin. But I can’t see anything there is worth Americans lives. The situation is totally FUBAR. Nothing we can do to make it right. Once bush invaded Iraq the whole area has experience gotterdammerung. We broke it. But we can’t fix it.

Same with Afghanistan. 17 years is enough. We can’t solve all problems and we are doing nothing but killing folks who know we will soon be gone.

It has taken me a long time to get to this point. As an American I want to believe we can fix anything. But now realize some problems in the world are not ours to solve.

[Alea]

24. Get them out

Keep air assets in the region to drop bombs on anyone that needs bombs dropped on. Keep a small quick reaction force in the Kurdish area to rescue any downed pilots. Tell Erdowan that if you screw with the Kurds we'll drop 2000lb bombs on anything that moves and shoot down anything that flies. Basically tell the Russians, Assad, Iran, and Iraq the same thing. Send the Kurds all the anti tank, anti aircraft weapons, and small arms they need to defend themselves.

Edit: Also make the Kurds agree not to provoke the Turks or the deal is off and you're on your own. Tell Iraq that if they screw with the Kurds we will force the establishment of an autonomous Kurdish state in Northern Iraq and bring them in to NATO.

[tavernier]

25. I notice you post a great deal and yet you don't have a star membership

DU really needs and appreciates the support of all of our strong fellow Democrats! Lots of perks and not expensive!

(Not speaking for admin... just my own personal sales pitch )

[oberliner]

38. I try to click on the ads a lot

Hopefully that helps the site financially as well.

[PaulX2]

30. We have to protect our allies the Kurds

If the Russians want us out we should stay also.

[oberliner]

32. Turkish assault on Kurdish militia in Syria has 'killed 24 civilians'

Up to 24 civilians have been killed and an estimated 5,000 displaced in the first three days of Turkey’s offensive against a Kurdish enclave in northern Syria, the United Nations and monitors said on Tuesday.

Turkey launched the assault on Saturday, aiming to force the Syrian Kurdish Democratic Union party (PYD) and its military wing, the People’s Protection Units (YPG), out of Afrin. Ankara says the militia is the Syrian arm of a terror group that has fought a decades-long insurgency inside Turkey.

A UN report citing local sources said three days of intensive shelling and airstrikes had displaced 5,000 people but some of most vulnerable people could not flee.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a war monitor with wide contacts inside Syria, said 24 civilians had died, as well as 25 Syrian rebels fighting alongside Turkey and 26 Kurdish fighters.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/23/turkey-admits-first-soldier-to-die-kurdish-offensive-syria

[Chuuku Davis]

33. We leave and the Turks

Wipe out the Kurds
They may anyway

[oberliner]

37. Isn't Turkey a NATO ally?

[Mosby]

57. they should be kicked out of nato imo. nt

[Lithos]

34. I am pro-Kurds

Turkey and Syria will conduct a genocide once we are gone

[oberliner]

36. Could we prevent that from happening without having troops there?

[Lithos]

54. Do not think so

The Kurds need supplies. The troops protect that. They also serve as witness to any attempt st genocide.

[Lithos]

58. Your thoughts?

As I stated, I think this is a mistake as it throws an ally under the bus and will do irreparable harm to both US interest and general human interest.

I do not state this lightly I think we are involved in far too many things - ex: Yemen, where we should not be.

[oberliner]

59. I just don't really understand what the US military strategy is in Syria

Nor what conditions would facilitate an exit. It seems like there wasn't any public debate or discussion about sending troops there in the first place. And it is definitely not clear what the end game is. Is it regime change? Are we helping to overthrow Assad? Are we helping to establish an autonomous Kurdish entity within the country?

[Lithos]

60. The US entered to fight ISIS

Most of our effort is indirect - we only have 2,000 troops deployed. Their mission is to provide training, logistics and communication/leadership to our allies there. We also provide air support, reconnaissance and intelligence.

The exposure of US lives is fairly minimal. What we're getting back from the investment in money is influence in one of the most strategic areas of the world.

To be very clear, Trump did this because it causes his brain to hurt. He can not cope with the intellectual rigor which is required to balance any and all response here. This is more about making his life easy than doing the right thing.

Leaving now does several things:

1) It does not resolve the idea of Kurdish independence or semi-autonomy.
2) It yields the stage to Iran and to Russia. Even Israel is now moving more towards Russia as a result.
3) Countries such as Iraq and Saudi Arabia will discount US needs. Given the lack of a sensible Energy program - our dependence on the Middle East for oil is still very critical. We will be the people being wagged, now the ones controlling our future.
4) And it will show that the US is turning into a hollow-man - whose word means nothing. We're becoming the sick man of the world. (Borrowed from the old Ottoman reference - Sick man of Europe)

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. We were down to 2,200 troops. Just over a third of what Trump sent to the Mexican border

i favored drawing down our troop levels in Syria. We did. in a world in which nations have military forces, there were better reasons for the U.S deploying a small number of troops in Syria than there are for almost any active use of forces. ISIS still has large numbers of combatants in Syria. Civil order was being restored in areas where U.S. troops were stationed in support of Kurdish elements allied to us who did most of the fighting against ISIS which greatly helped us fight terrorists who wanted to strike America. This was the smart way to face a lethal threat, not a U.S. invasion involving over 100,000 soldiers like Bush did with Iraq.

2,200 troops is a small footprint, and the trend line was for continued withdrawals over time. That made sense. Yanking them all out suddenly does not.

[Downtown Hound]

45. I don't know, but if we leave

It should be on our terms, not Putin's.

[bluestarone]

48. My thought is

If putin wants us out I say STAY!!! End of story.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Trump handed Syria to Russia and Iran

WINNING