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Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man (Original Post) Red Mountain Dec 2018 OP
K&R ffr Dec 2018 #1
Ask Patton about the Battle of Metz. Kaleva Dec 2018 #2
I can't find a specific date to attribute the quote to.... Red Mountain Dec 2018 #14
The Maginot Line. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #3
But easily maneuvered around. brush Dec 2018 #4
True. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #5
King James version of Matthew 7:24-27. Alert trump not to build on the seashore. It's sand. brush Dec 2018 #7
Hence... czarjak Dec 2018 #12
Trump can stop the tide. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #19
Yep. "Who knew Hitler would go through Belgium?" grantcart Dec 2018 #9
And since fixed fortifications serve no defensive purpose NotASurfer Dec 2018 #6
I think you are on to something. FuzzyRabbit Dec 2018 #17
Exactly my thinking NotASurfer Dec 2018 #18
The people you would be confronted by, probably don't even know who Patton was... pangaia Dec 2018 #8
So it's some kind of invasion? That's stupid. hunter Dec 2018 #10
Don't mean to suggest anything of the sort Red Mountain Dec 2018 #16
If tRump could read, he'd know how the wall at Jericho fared. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2018 #11
K & R SunSeeker Dec 2018 #13
BAM! ancianita Dec 2018 #15

Kaleva

(36,307 posts)
2. Ask Patton about the Battle of Metz.
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 06:13 PM
Dec 2018

"Germans were completely astonished at American approach on the battlefield. Generaloberst Johannes Blaskowitz, C.O of Armeegruppe G, is not gentle in his review of Patton's decision to launch a headlong attack straight into the fortifications of Metz:

"A direct attack on Metz was unnecessary....in contrast a swerve northward in the direction of Luxemburg and Bitburg would have met with greater success and caused our 1st Army's right flank collapsed followed by the breakdown of our 7th Army."

Famous military strategist Liddel Hart remarked laconically,

"Patton's 3rd Army began to cross the Moselle as early as 5 September, yet was little farther forward 2 weeks later - or indeed two months later.""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Metz#Aftermath

Red Mountain

(1,733 posts)
14. I can't find a specific date to attribute the quote to....
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 08:23 PM
Dec 2018

but it may have been after Metz.

No doubt the delay helped the German war effort. Ultimately, it didn't matter.

Short of it is.....strategic German victory, tactical allied victory.

Will Trump's wall fare better?



https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/pattons-saar-offensive-breaking-through-the-western-wall/

A number of factors contributed to Third Army’s protracted battle in Lorraine. One factor was that Patton had, from the outset, misjudged the enemy’s morale, which remained strong despite obvious shortcomings in manpower, training, and war-fighting equipment.

Another factor was Patton’s persistence in spreading out his forces—both in trying to cross the Moselle River in September and also in trying to punch through the West Wall in December—in hopes of finding a hole or weak spot in the enemy line. Instead, he should have concentrated his divisions in one powerful column to overwhelm the Germans in a specific location. Still another factor was the acute shortage of riflemen as Third Army’s infantry had to carry the weight of the battle on its shoulders both in reducing the Metz forts and also in attempting to clear the outerworks of the West Wall.

One factor completely beyond Patton’s control was the dismal weather. Exceptionally heavy rains over the three and a half months that Third Army fought in Lorraine produced flooded rivers, soggy terrain, and record numbers of trench foot cases among the infantry in their wet, freezing foxholes. Largely restricted to roads, the armor was unable to exploit opportunities that arose.

Lorraine was certainly not the high point of Patton’s career, for he relished the swift advance and despised costly set-piece battles. The proof is in the numbers. It took Patton’s troops more than three months to advance 60 miles at the cost of 50,000 troops.

Nevertheless, during the static slugfest, Patton’s Third Army wore down the enemy, which suffered 180,000 casualties trying to prevent one of the most aggressive Allied commanders from achieving a breakthrough on the southern end of the Western Front. Unable to maneuver around the enemy’s main force, Patton’s Third Army had no choice but to trade punches with the German First Army until the German counterattack in the Ardennes put an end to the fighting in Lorraine.



guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
5. True.
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 07:07 PM
Dec 2018

And the US is bordered by oceans.

Extend the wall down to the sea bed?

All part of motivating with fear. The GOP's preferred method.

brush

(53,782 posts)
7. King James version of Matthew 7:24-27. Alert trump not to build on the seashore. It's sand.
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 07:23 PM
Dec 2018

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

trump doesn't know the Bible from Adam and the evangelicals keep giving this guy mulligan's for his many sins.

NotASurfer

(2,150 posts)
6. And since fixed fortifications serve no defensive purpose
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 07:21 PM
Dec 2018

they can only be monumental compensation for the shortcomings of their proponents

Defense is not the goal. Gigantic memorial is the idea. Somebody fears they will be historically insignificant I think, and wants something that will survive their personal erasure

FuzzyRabbit

(1,967 posts)
17. I think you are on to something.
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 08:48 PM
Dec 2018

Donald Trump wants "Trump's Wall" to be a lasting memorial to himself, reminding people for centuries of his immense greatness.

NotASurfer

(2,150 posts)
18. Exactly my thinking
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 09:17 PM
Dec 2018

And he's getting desperate. The original boast was solid, sturdy concrete, with the potential in a dry climate to stubbornly persist for a thousand years even if abandoned

Steel slats are easily bypassed, less imposing, more prone to decay, and targets to be cut down and recycled if abandoned. He's trying to get something - anything - while he can still gaze upon it with satisfaction at having a legacy he feels is worthy

hunter

(38,315 posts)
10. So it's some kind of invasion? That's stupid.
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 08:02 PM
Dec 2018

It's people who had the misfortune of being born in places that suck who are seeking something better.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."

It's not an invasion of Nazis. We already have plenty enough of them here.



Red Mountain

(1,733 posts)
16. Don't mean to suggest anything of the sort
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 08:44 PM
Dec 2018

Just attempting to frame the wall into a format that might result in a little critical thought on the part of our Trump loving citizens.

A little doubt can go a long way when it's reinforced daily.



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