Democratic Rep. Criticizes Tlaib: We Can't 'Get Into the Gutter With the President'

[DonViejo]

by Josh Feldman | Jan 5th, 2019, 4:11 pm

Congressman Emanuel Cleaver criticized colleague Rashida Tlaib for her profane comment about impeaching President Donald Trump––one of several Democrats who has pushed back on it so far.

Yesterday Cleaver tweeted that Tlaib’s “impeach the motherfucking” comment was “flat-out wrong”:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

On MSNBC this afternoon, Cleaver told Alex Witt, “Donald Trump has been making these comments or much worse since the campaign. But we cannot afford to get into the gutter with the president. The president is practicing junior high school use of the English language… I think Ms. Tlaib is a good and decent person, and therefore she should not allow herself to get into the same kind of situation that the president intentionally has gotten in over the years.”

He argued that Trump “wants to win on anger,” but they “want to win on principle and on policy.”

video
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/democratic-rep-criticizes-tlaib-we-cant-get-into-the-gutter-with-the-president/

[EffieBlack]

1. He's right

We don't win by turning in to them.

[TheBlackAdder]

23. To a degree, but you've got to admit it sure highlights the hypocrisy of the Republicans.

.

If handled properly, their echo chamber will be the only ones who pound this message. But, if it's not this, it will be something else--because they always have to be angry at something. So, we should ignore what Republicans think. They are debased and are mostly unsalvageable. If some switch sides, they will need to make that decision when they are good and ready, and the use of mofo won't be the deciding factor.

We should concentrate on everyone else, who still has free thought.

Most of use use that word, from time to time. I believe it was said in a bar, so it wasn't like when Trump says it on a stage.


That being said, while it shouldn't be used more than once or twice, its use can be a positive to further show contrast between the hypocrites and those who are not Republican. The Scottish song says it best, "Oh, ye’ll take the high road and I’ll take the low road, And I’ll be in Scotland afore ye..." Some Dems need to take the lower roads to head off the traitorous Trumpsters.

That being said, if Speaker Pelosi doesn't chastize her, then Rep. Cleaver should probably not tell her she's wrong! He should have used less concrete words. Wrong offers no latitude, no nuance. And I believe it was wrong for him to state that!

.

[pecosbob]

2. He is correct

but staying out of the gutter isn't the same as staying out of the brawl and letting the racist, reactionary statements of the right go unchallenged. It will be good to hear Dems ratchet up the rhetoric a bit, otherwise all we hear is FOX and all the 'liberal media' repeat the same BS ad infinitum.

[Squinch]

3. Are we going to have a separate thread for every Democrat that voices a negative opinion about

this non-issue?

Because that's productive.

How about each one of them includes the video of Trump calling the Chinese "motherfuckers" in the public Vegas speech, and no republicans OR Democrats saying anything about it?

[DonViejo]

4. Didn't read the article?

[Squinch]

6. Yes, I did. Sadly.

[Paladin]

5. Democrats do themselves no favors by adhering to out-of-date good conduct rules.

The republicans walked away from such rules decades ago---and trump wipes his ass with them, daily. If you're not up for what's bound to be a dirty fight, then get out of the way.

[EffieBlack]

8. And we do ourselves no good by assuming the only way to fight Trump is to behave like him

One of the reasons we can't stand him and his crowd is because of the way they speak and behave. If we start to speak and behave like they do and try to justify it with "that's what they do so we have to do it, too so we can win," we've lost our way ...

[Squinch]

15. I don't think one comment by one plain-spoken congressperson, spoken

Last edited Sun Jan 6, 2019, 12:43 PM - Edit history (1)

at a bar, constitutes us losing our way.

I don't think a thousand such comments would constitute us losing our way.

I say it all the time in my private conversations. I'm not lost at all.

Edited: I thought she had said it in a private conversation. Edited to correct that error.

[dsc]

20. she was on a stage being videoed

that isn't private.

[Squinch]

24. Again: so what?

[dsc]

28. If you want to argue it doesn't matter if she said it public that is one thing

but it is dishonest to say she said it in a private conversation. It was nothing of the sort.

[Squinch]

34. OK, my mistake. I thought I had read that it was in a private conversation. It was at a

celebration party in a bar.

But still, so what?

[still_one]

27. Really, you say MF all the time in your private conversations?

[Squinch]

31. Is that a problem? I curse when I think it's called for. I find it cathartic.

If you are squeamish about words like "fuck" remind me never to drive you anywhere. I curse a blue streak when I'm behind the wheel.

And I went to a finishing school.

[still_one]

36. I don't have a problem with it, I just find it humerous the way some express themselves

[Paladin]

50. In private conversations about trump, I certainly do. Frequently.

I'll probably regret asking this, but: What's your point?

[still_one]

63. Why would you regret it, I will tell you. An image flashed in my mind where everyone was

yelling MF in every other sentence, and that image just struck me as humorous.

It reminded somewhat of the movie Network, where Howard Beale tells everyone to go out or open their window and yell:

"I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore"

[Me.]

30. Civility Is Not Out Of Date

[Paladin]

54. You want to make nice with a monster like trump? Be my guest.

Get back to me after we flush the most uncivil president in this country's history out of office. You and I can have a nice discussion about how big a factor good behavior was in expunging him. I'll do my best to be civil.

[Me.]

58. Don't Be Silly

Behaving as he does or even having his behavior in the equation at all is just nonsensical. He is the worst of the worst and using him as our example of how one should behave is a non-starter.

[KG]

7. your concern is noted, rep. cleaver

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. +1000000!

[pangaia]

9. " less-than-sanitary language .."... "smutty language" ?

Does anybody still talk like that?

[manor321]

10. Nonsense response. Tlaib was not and is not in the gutter

[onetexan]

13. If the comment was made by a man

Would he have said the same thing? I dont think so.

[ananda]

11. Yet I-1 can get into the gutter with anybody he wants.

Sure

[DonViejo]

19. Isn't he a permanent resident of the gutter, ananda? I think he is...

and he immeasurably debases this country with his gutter lifestyle.

[Autumn]

14. I'll say what needs to be said: I don't know what else to say about a person who calls

women, Democrats and immigrants, to name just a few of his targets filthy vile names and is working overtime to destroy everything he can except for "Let's impeach the motherfucker."

You Sir, are flat out wrong.

[still_one]

29. What needs to be said is to call him out for what he is, a racist, sexist, and bigot

[Autumn]

51. He's all that and a sorry motherfucker.

[Power 2 the People]

60. +1000

[LuckyCharms]

16. Swearing is bad.

[kacekwl]

17. Like many others have said here,

I call the traitorous, lying, criminal in the white house the same thing several time a day. I also say the same if not worse about the rest of his Russian co-workers. Gasp and clutch your pearls if you must but it's no big deal in my opinion.

[ck4829]

18. Is she in the gutter though? She used a naughty word... Trump uses racist dogwhistles

and appealed to some of the most disgusting Americans; birthers, the alt-right, etc.

I see a difference between the two.

[WePurrsevere]

21. Yeah, because playing nice & speaking with 'propriety'...

Has gotten Democrats so far.

I'm not someone who uses foul language very often. Being brought up in 1960s white collar middle class suburbia I was taught that a well educated person shouldn't use such words and certainly not a woman. ( ::gasp:: The horrors )

That said, the sanctimonious judgemental scolding of a fellow representative who's a woman by male Rep Cleaver over her (one time) use of profanity as an exclamation point contributes nothing to the issues we Democrats work to achieve, helps promote the Republican BS meme and quite frankly ticks me off.

Using a 'dirty word' occasionally isn't what puts someone in 'the gutter'. Not by a long shot.

[Voltaire2]

22. Idiots abound.

Impeach the motherfucker.

[dalton99a]

25. Ok. Now impeach the motherfucker.

[theaocp]

26. Thanks, Rep. Pious.

It's easy to tut-tut about something, but why don't you follow your own advice and go do policy? You'll have less opportunity to promote in-fighting.

[EffieBlack]

37. Do you know anything about Rep. Cleaver or what he does.

Obviously not, or you wouldn't be so dismissive of him.

[theaocp]

44. I responded to what he said and did, thanks.

That allowed me to be dismissive of him for what he said and did. His comments are not helpful and create unnecessary division in our party when it's not warranted, nor needed. He's free to follow his own advice and go make policy. Anything else?

[EffieBlack]

46. I doubt you know anything about what Rep. Cleaver does

or you wouldn't have so condescendingly instructed him to "go do policy."

Rep. Cleaver had more than earned the right to speak his mind about what a younger colleague has said.

[theaocp]

48. I'll repeat it, since you missed it the first time.

He gave his opinion. That means I'm responding to WHAT HE SAID AND DID. Get it through your head: this isn't about his accomplishments; it's about the OP. He opened his mouth and said what he said. Now, I'm responding. I didn't post the OP and didn't put words in his mouth. I support impeaching the motherfucker. Any other part of that axe you have to grind? My breakfast is getting cold.

[UniteFightBack]

32. What is most funny is the fake uproar over muthafucka but not that she said impeach him. Nobody

finds that offensive that rump should be impeached....the word muthafucka is more offensive. I mean this is just RICH and I'm finding it pretty hysterical. Yes LET'S NORMALIZE the idea of a rump IMPEACHMENT. Seems to be catching on. !!!

[still_one]

33. I wonder how many who applaud the MF comment, were upset when a person referred to some Trump

supporters as deplorable?

If my memory serves me right, there was a good number

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/01/bernie-sanders-trump-voters-not-deplorable-clinton-warren

[EffieBlack]

41. It's also interesting

That some of the same people who applaud anything certain up-and-coming politicians say to and about other Dems - regardless how insulting or off-base it is - as "speaking their truth" are awfully quick to insult, name-call, and tell tried-and-true Democratic warriors to STFU and go away when they speak THEIR truth to their younger colleagues.

Apparently, only some people are allowed to say what they think ...

[still_one]

42. Purely coincidently I am sure

[The Truth Is Here]

35. Impeach the motherfucker.

We had enough. It is time to be aggressive. Cleaver can choose not to be a part of it, then he has to step out of the way and let the freshmen take care of business. They were voted in for a reason. Not to take advice from a tired old politican.

[EffieBlack]

38. 'Tired old politician?"

Really?

[WeekiWater]

39. It's time for women leaders and segment of women rights supporters...

To be a little more Malcolm X than MLK.

The comments being discussed are mild. Fight back against this “sanitization” as Rep Cleaver likes to refer to it. And people are agreeing? WTF.

[KPN]

40. Not to be disrespectful sir, but your better than

thou BS is exactly what the asshole occupying the WH and the GOP as a whole count on, hope and high-five one another for when they see it. You just did their job for them and, at the same time showed them and, more importantly for them, their deplorables how weak, meek and mild us “righteous elitist” in their minds Democrats really are. I’m sure The Bully Party is emboldened and celebrating your words right now. Nice job motherfucker!

[EffieBlack]

45. No, that's NOT what they count on

What they count on is being able to claim "see, they ALL do it" when they see Democrats cheering other Democrats when they jump into the mud with Trump.

[KPN]

49. They do that anyway. They don't even wait for or

need examples. In my mind, Cleaver’s statement hurts more than it helps. Let these young new leaders alone. Let them be the people they are, the personalities that got them elected.

Don’t get me wrong. The high road certainly has its place and is the more productive and beneficial path in normal circumstances. But these aren’t and we aren’t in the middle of normal circumstances.

[EffieBlack]

52. And, as you said, they'd do that anyway whether Cleaver said anything or not

I look forward to your insisting that we "let those experienced leaders alone. Let them be the people they are, the personalities that got them elected" the next time one of the young leaders publicly criticizes one of them ...

That door swings both ways.

[KPN]

56. Well, I will defend our experienced leaders and have when

I believe they deserve it. I can very honestly say that President Obama was without question the best President in my 68-year lifetime, but also disagree with some of his actions, positions and approach. I will have the back of our more experienced leaders whenever they need and deserve it. This wasn’t one of those times to my thinking.

[theaocp]

53. We're STILL worried the RW and M$M will call us uncivil?

When the fuck will this shit end? I'm tired of these motherfucking snakes in our motherfucking government and taking the high road has helped us lose. It's like a purity test.

[David__77]

43. I disagree with Cleaver's characterization of Tlaib as a "wrong-sayer."

I don’t think Tlaib owes anyone an apology. I don’t think Tlaib did something wrong in making her statement.

I can agree with calling Trump a motherfucker. I don’t agree with calling Tlaib a wrong-sayer.

[EffieBlack]

47. You may not agree with his characterization

But he certainly has as much right to speak his mind as she does. Applauding her comment while telling him to STFU is rather rich ...

[David__77]

55. He does have that right, I agree.

I don’t think disagreeing with his comments is the same as telling him to shut the fuck up.

[EffieBlack]

57. I don't think you're doing that - sorry if I left that impression

But plenty of others on this and other threads are saying precisely that.

[David__77]

61. It's OK.

I would not call Cleaver “tired, old” or say he needs to get out of the way. While I don’t fully share his personal understanding of civility and fairness, I’m glad that he’s made a great contribution over years of time.

[Downtown Hound]

59. Going high when they go low HAS NOT WORKED

And it's not going to. We have a fight on our hands, and we're not going to win it by sitting in our ivory towers being sideline critics. We're going to win it by getting in the trenches and getting dirty.

[David__77]

62. Is it really dirty to say "motherfucker?"

I think Trump’s “dirtiness” is expressed through his dishonesty. Tlaib didn’t express dirtiness, in my opinion.

[Downtown Hound]

65. No, but some people are overly sensitive. n/t

[JCanete]

64. Its a modern world. Cuss words have a place and pretending they are lesser language or always

inappropriate in every circumstance is silly. There is power in them and just relegating them to vulgarity is an antiquated way of looking at them. Should they be used sparingly? Sure. Probably more sparingly than I use them. Otherwise they are just filler. But come the fuck on.