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Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:30 PM

There is one person I believe would, absolutely, positively, beat Trump - Joe Biden.

If Joe runs, Joe will win. We must win.

128 replies, 4143 views

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Reply There is one person I believe would, absolutely, positively, beat Trump - Joe Biden. (Original post)
Stuart G Jan 2019 OP
in2herbs Jan 2019 #1
dchill Jan 2019 #2
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #5
trof Jan 2019 #96
calguy Jan 2019 #104
treestar Jan 2019 #116
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #3
hlthe2b Jan 2019 #4
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #7
Stuart G Jan 2019 #13
in2herbs Jan 2019 #37
Bradshaw3 Jan 2019 #59
treestar Jan 2019 #117
oberliner Jan 2019 #6
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #8
oberliner Jan 2019 #19
Kingofalldems Jan 2019 #36
oberliner Jan 2019 #43
standingtall Jan 2019 #65
Dem_4_Life Jan 2019 #22
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #25
Dem_4_Life Jan 2019 #26
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #40
Amishman Jan 2019 #15
oberliner Jan 2019 #18
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #41
oberliner Jan 2019 #45
Dream Girl Jan 2019 #52
oberliner Jan 2019 #54
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #109
Amishman Jan 2019 #72
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #27
Doreen Jan 2019 #9
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #29
33taw Jan 2019 #39
Hoyt Jan 2019 #87
pnwmom Jan 2019 #31
Bradshaw3 Jan 2019 #58
pnwmom Jan 2019 #61
Bradshaw3 Jan 2019 #113
pnwmom Jan 2019 #114
Desert grandma Jan 2019 #10
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #17
delisen Jan 2019 #11
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #21
delisen Jan 2019 #42
Maven Jan 2019 #63
Doremus Jan 2019 #64
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #12
Gothmog Jan 2019 #14
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #23
Gothmog Jan 2019 #24
enough Jan 2019 #16
bdamomma Jan 2019 #20
pnwmom Jan 2019 #28
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #32
Sugarcoated Jan 2019 #47
pnwmom Jan 2019 #62
Sugarcoated Jan 2019 #73
pnwmom Jan 2019 #74
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #76
pnwmom Jan 2019 #79
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #88
pnwmom Jan 2019 #91
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #99
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #100
pnwmom Jan 2019 #111
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #124
Sugarcoated Feb 2019 #128
treestar Jan 2019 #120
pnwmom Jan 2019 #121
Maven Jan 2019 #60
RT Atlanta Jan 2019 #30
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #33
RT Atlanta Jan 2019 #46
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #102
RT Atlanta Jan 2019 #106
Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #34
Doremus Jan 2019 #68
treestar Jan 2019 #119
Stuart G Jan 2019 #35
Celerity Jan 2019 #118
Sugarcoated Jan 2019 #38
honest.abe Jan 2019 #44
Sugarcoated Jan 2019 #49
mainstreetonce Jan 2019 #50
emulatorloo Jan 2019 #94
honest.abe Jan 2019 #98
emulatorloo Jan 2019 #101
womanofthehills Jan 2019 #125
colsohlibgal Jan 2019 #48
obnoxiousdrunk Jan 2019 #51
OhZone Jan 2019 #53
Thekaspervote Jan 2019 #55
OhZone Jan 2019 #56
peggysue2 Jan 2019 #67
Maven Jan 2019 #57
OhZone Jan 2019 #69
underpants Jan 2019 #66
SCantiGOP Jan 2019 #70
Joe941 Jan 2019 #71
Stuart G Jan 2019 #75
marybourg Jan 2019 #77
tavernier Jan 2019 #78
Kurt V. Jan 2019 #80
Stuart G Jan 2019 #81
Kurt V. Jan 2019 #84
womanofthehills Jan 2019 #126
shanny Jan 2019 #82
Stuart G Jan 2019 #85
Kurt V. Jan 2019 #93
obamanut2012 Jan 2019 #83
WeekiWater Jan 2019 #86
Stuart G Jan 2019 #90
WeekiWater Jan 2019 #112
Autumn Jan 2019 #89
emulatorloo Jan 2019 #95
Autumn Jan 2019 #97
Stuart G Jan 2019 #92
Crunchy Frog Jan 2019 #103
MadDAsHell Jan 2019 #105
democratisphere Jan 2019 #107
Joe941 Jan 2019 #108
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #110
pnwmom Jan 2019 #115
LakeArenal Jan 2019 #122
McCamy Taylor Jan 2019 #123
WheelWalker Feb 2019 #127

Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:39 PM

1. There are many good democrats who may run, but IMO Biden is too old. I wouldn't be against him

(and other senior democrats) holding some cabinet or administrative position that closely advises the new president. Thus, I think the candidate that makes it to the finals must openly lay claim to the use of long-term dems for advice.

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:42 PM

2. The older I get, the less age is a factor.

Intelligence, compassion, wisdom - rarer in youth than in age.

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Response to dchill (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:46 PM

5. + And what also becomes more important to me is someone who thinks big

picture - above personal preferences. I think if we go with someone with the core values deep in their soul, we can't go wrong. Along with someone who has enough experience to know what will go over with masses - or at least can think incrementally, as not to scare everyone away.

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Response to dchill (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:20 PM

96. The older I get, the MORE age is a factor.

I'm 77.
My short term memory is zip.
I have limited vision.
ARMD
Biden is a year younger than I am.
In 2020 he'll be 78.
He's a nice, smart guy.
I like him, but he would be the oldest president ever elected.
We need younger candidates.

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Response to trof (Reply #96)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:07 PM

104. The older I get

The better I used to be.

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Response to trof (Reply #96)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:31 PM

116. Have you retired?

That is what does it.

Biden, Pelosi and others did not.

That keeps their short term memories good.

See also RBG.

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:44 PM

3. That is precisely why he is good. Blend age/wisdom with youthful, energetic VP

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:45 PM

4. That is what quite a few ageist DUers said about Nancy Pelosi. Age should not be determinative

Personally, I think a Biden/Harris team would be nearly unstoppable.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:48 PM

7. Nor should "genderists" and "minorityists" - Best person first - what they look like,

how old they are should be second.

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:53 PM

13. You may think Biden is too .."old"..Running against Trump, I believe that age would

be a secondary consideration to a great majority of voters in the U.S.A. right now. Joe Biden has proven is competence, and Donald Trump has proven his "incompetence" And Joe will win if he runs.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:31 PM

37. The next president is going to have her work cut out for her. She will need help. Look how Obama

turned so gray in just 8 years. Being a good president is a tough job. I want someone who will be physically and mentally able to do the job for one or two terms, and if older, not be chosen because of the choice of a VP to qualify for the top job.

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #37)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:30 PM

59. So no males need apply, huh?

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Response to in2herbs (Reply #37)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:34 PM

117. Obama went gray

Due to progression from age 47 to age 55. That happens no matter what stress you have. Obama was not stressed by the presidency. He is the ultimate of aplomb. Genetics too. I had a lot of grey before 40 and was never president. It was going to happen whether I felt stress or not.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:47 PM

6. Or Kamala Harris

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:50 PM

8. Great person, of course. Doubtful she could turn anything from purple

to blue - just because of the inherent sexism/racism that still abounds (with this generation at least).

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:06 PM

19. I would say Georgia, North Carolina, and Florida would be very much in play

 

With her at the top of the ticket.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:29 PM

36. That is false IMO.

Any polling to back that up?

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:35 PM

43. I think the near win by Abrams in GA bodes well for a progressive AA candidate

 

Like Kamala Harris.

In NC, Trump barely squeaked by in 2016 - I think Harris could help get out the African-American vote even more strongly - enough to put the state in the D column.

Florida was similarly extremely close in 2016, and I feel like she could put us over the top there as well.

No polling yet - but I am not sure that polling this far out would be particularly instructive to be honest.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:40 PM

65. Except both Abrams and Gillum both lost in states they are from to candidates that cheated

and the cheaters are now in control of the of the states election machinery to cheat even more. I do not see why someone from California would do any better there. For Democrats to win in right leaning swing States they have to be at least 5 to 10 points better to overcome voter suppression and the cheating tactics of republicans.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:10 PM

22. I agree. Love her but I don't see her turning TX Blue.

Too much Racism and Sexism still exists but there is also a lot of Trump hatred that if we pick the right candidate then we could possibly turn TX Blue.

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Response to Dem_4_Life (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:13 PM

25. Yes. Think it's different when you come from a red state perspective. And you just

know in your gut, based on knowing the people around you, who could win and would would definitely not win. It's my selfish motive - turn TX blue !!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:17 PM

26. Yes me too! Once TX turns blue then we will keep it blue.

Plus not hearing people saying Texas will never turn blue or maybe in 4-8 years HAHA

It is finally time if we have a solid middle of the country type of candidate.

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Response to Dem_4_Life (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:32 PM

40. Yes, it still hurts that we came so close with Beto - but saw it coming - just looking

at Facebook and the tortured, negative, phony ads that went viral.

If we pick up TX then not as much pressure on FL and OH

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Response to oberliner (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:01 PM

15. IMO Harris is high risk as I don't see her doing well in PA and MI

I see overlap with where and how we under performed in 2016

Biden would do very well in PA.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:06 PM

18. She could be strong in GA and FL

 

Also North Carolina.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:33 PM

41. Why do say FL? Don't see that as a bastion of liberalism

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:38 PM

45. Florida was very close in 2016 and Andrew Gillum almost won the state in 2018

 

I feel like she can have the same success that Gillum did plus a bit more, enough to put her over the top there. She has a lot of the same policy proposals as Gillum with more experience on the national stage and a higher profile.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:57 PM

52. Sexism would do her in. I love her but see her as risky.Look at what they're doing to her already

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:11 PM

54. Hillary only lost by 1 percentage point

 

And that was with all the Russian crap going on and before these years of Trump's awfulness as POTUS.

I really feel like Kamala Harris would be able to win the state.

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:25 PM

109. I agree - but it's my red state perspective. I don't want to be left out. I want

TX blue. Feel like we are being left behind here.

But, I'll take a breath and not get too depressed yet Who knows.

Just left pedicure where two women who sat next to me said "Democrats" like we are the devil incarnate, and when Pelosi came on TV, they said "I HATE her, she reminds me of Hillary (again spewing it like she was total evil). Right wing media and Mom-book did a number on her, for sure. We're talking very low info people here in red part of TX.

Lesson learned for me - don't HATE all republicans. Consider nuance and save HATE for those who truly deserve it.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 05:20 PM

72. Her strong talk against the NRA and calling for gun restrictions will hurt her there

It's part of what would hurt her in PA as well, some states really love their guns.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:18 PM

27. Exactly. I like that "high risk" (great person but high risk). Of course we don't

really know who we are running against. What if it's a liberal republican. LOL

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:50 PM

9. Biden would be the person to bring us as close to having Obama back.

He is just as a wonderful man as Obama. We are always talking about Obama and put Biden in the background. Yes, he was the "vice" president but he was one hell of a good "vice" president. He is my first choice and I hope he runs for president. Oh yeah, just a dream of mine but I would love a Biden/Beto ticket. Yes, you do not have to tell me it won't happen but it is a nice dream.

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Response to Doreen (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:21 PM

29. Why won't it happen? Biden/Beto? it's perfect - especially if they run together and

not wait until the convention. Ya, he's old, but there's youth with him to counterbalance. Also like the slogan BB2020

You hit the nail on the head - after Trump, I think people are craving decency, wisdom, caution, and tradition. The anti-thesis of DJT

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:32 PM

39. I really liked Beto until the dental appointment. We have tremendous issues and watching

Beto get his teeth cleaned, didn’t do a lot to instill confidence in his judgment.

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Response to 33taw (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:56 PM

87. I thought the same. Heck, people got upset about Howard Dean yelling in Iowa, but O'Rourke's dental

thing -- and his herky jerky dance he does when giving a speech -- just doesn't do it for me (hope he doesn't have some kind of physical challenge I don't know about). He will fade fast.

Plus, I am totally against two white men on the ticket. Just think that is wrong for Democrats in 2020, even if it were a guaranteed winner.

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Response to Doreen (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:21 PM

31. So I guess you were fine with Biden taking $200K to give a speech to help Fred Upton,

the Republican running for re-election in Congress in 2018, and refuse to even talk to the Democrat about an endorsement?

His supposed reason was because they guy voted for Biden's cancer research bill -- but Upton also tried to repeal the ACA. He's not an ally.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:29 PM

58. You are misrepresenting what he did

You make it sound like he took money to "help Fred Upton, a repub running for re-election" as though he was helping his campaign. He took it as part of a speaking engagement related to Upton's support for cancer research. I think it was the wrong thing to do but to make it sound like he was supporting a repub's re-election is dishonest.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:33 PM

61. No, I'm not. It was during his campaign, and Biden knew it would help him. Upton even made

campaign ads about Biden's appearance at Upton's event.

And what was his excuse about not even speaking to the Democrat? That he only endorsed candidates in races that would matter. Well, it could have mattered A LOT in this race, but Biden wouldn't even return a phone call.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:05 PM

113. Yes you did and are still doing it

You say Biden knew that it would help the repub. Just how do you know that? Have a quote from him from a reliable news source? I doubt he knew that commericals would be made from it; you can blame him for naievte but you are doing it again: implying that he knowlingly was trying to help the repub candidate with no proof of that whatsoever. It was a dumb thing he did, and he shouldn't have done it but there is nothing to indicate he did it to help the repub.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #113)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:18 PM

114. You're the one who's naive if you think someone as experienced as Biden didn't know

that Upton would milk this for all it was worth. No, Biden is NOT that naive. He also knew he took his $200K speaking fee from Republican sponsors including the Frederick S. Upton Foundation, connected to Representative Upton's family.

You still haven't explained why Biden refused to even talk to the Democrat's campaign about endorsing the Democrat.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/us/politics/biden-speech-fred-upton.html

Eric Lester, a retired physician who chaired the Democratic Party in Berrien County, Mich., during the midterms, said he viewed Mr. Biden’s supportive remarks about Mr. Upton as a betrayal. Mr. Lester, who attended the speech, said he had confronted an aide to Mr. Biden in the hallway, telling him the former vice president had badly damaged the Democratic cause.

“It just gives Fred Upton cover and makes it possible for him to continue to pretend to be a useful, bipartisan fellow,” Mr. Lester recalled saying, adding, “I entered the hall with positive feelings about Mr. Biden and felt very frustrated.”

SNIP

The speaking contract for Mr. Biden’s October appearance in Michigan suggests that the popular Democrat would have known he was addressing a Republican-leaning crowd. The speaking series was underwritten in part by organizations connected to Mr. Upton’s family: Among the biggest sponsors listed on the Economic Club’s website are the Whirlpool Corporation, which was co-founded by Mr. Upton’s grandfather, and the Frederick S. Upton Foundation, a family charity named for the same man.

The contract for Mr. Biden’s visit shows he was paid $200,000 for his appearance, including a $150,000 speaking fee and a $50,000 travel allowance. It also specifies that the audience would be “primarily older, conservative Republicans and local community members.” The document was disclosed in response to a Freedom of Information request made by America Rising, a Republican group that conducts research on Democratic candidates.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:51 PM

10. I agree.

Joe brings experience and the ability to appeal to a large number of working class people in the Midwest and elsewhere. He is likeable and I could see a ticket with Joe and any one of our great progressive candidates. Others could be appointed to a Biden cabinet, maybe? Attorney General Kamala Harris, perhaps?

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Response to Desert grandma (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:05 PM

17. That's what I think too. Let the fine progressive people run committees and

departments. Just think bigger and stand down just so we are SURE we can get rid of the monster. Besides, we are already scaring people with the republicans and media saying we will raise taxes to 70%. (They don't hear the fine print). Or that thousands upon thousands of private health care providers will lose their jobs when those companies belly up.

Spend some time coming up with a way to figure out a transitional, incremental approach to medicare for all. Cut off a chunk and pass it. I don't know if there are examples of countries that weren't socialist in nature already that went big bang - from for-profit, capitalist health care to single payer. Maybe there are some - just haven't researched.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:52 PM

11. We lost over 1000 Democratic seats when

Biden was vp. He got re-elected in 2012 but the party did not recover.

He Wrote and voted for the Crime bill that the far left used to vilify H Clinton (when she did not even hold elective office).

He is a reliable supporter of big banks and the credit card industry-and let interest rates rise to serious rates on credit card -plunging many into bankruptcy for trying to pay off medical bills.

Biden will be decimated by Russian interference-which has not yet been successfully combated.

He issued no warnings to us voters in 2016 about Russian interference.

I don't recall his doing much about the Rust Belt during his decades in office.

(The rust belt rusted a long time ago. Michael Moore detailed the downfall of Flint, Michigan in the 1980s. The runaway shop and globalization actually started two decades earlier when the New England industries fled the higher-wage and higher taxed north to the American south to take advantage of the low wage, low tax, anti-worker territory and thence onward to Mexico).

Lots of union members got early retirements when the various companies absconded. In fact that entire early generation is now mostly dead. Another contingent comprised "Democrats of Reagan."

Biden is a non-starter-and I have't even got into his performance regarding Anita Hill

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Response to delisen (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:10 PM

21. Sounds like chump change baggage compared to Trump. Crime rates were very

high back then, weren't they? And, I would say most of the population has changed their attitudes since a million years ago in Anita Hill days. To blame us losing 1000 seats on Biden is a real stretch.

my two cents

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:34 PM

42. Biden will be subject to the same bs attacks that Clinton was

subject to bs attacks just as Clinton was. He will be subject to Russian interference just as Clinton was.

Of course it is possible that Putin may prefer a Biden to a damaged Trump or to whatever other candidate Republicans may turn to.I have no way of knowing. It is quite likely that Trump will not be running.

In any caseI don't think Biden will be effective as either a candidate or a president-the issues we are facing are immense.Climate change is accelerating and comes with likely mass migrations, disruptions and many unknowns, many unknowns, we are no longer regarded as leaderof the free world, we are soon to be no longer the world's biggest economy. We may be facing a jobless future for many.

The freedom movement of women worldwide is growing rapidly, as are the anti-democracy.fascism forces. We are in a new-style Cold War. Russia breached our defenses with a non-military attack. I think Biden was clueless
I don't think he has vision or the background to handle this; nor do I think he can rally the right people.


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Response to delisen (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:35 PM

63. +1 to all this. Let's also not forget his role in making student loans impossible to discharge

through bankruptcy.

He will make young progressives flee the party. Not to mention dampening enthusiasm among women, people of color, and other vital constituencies in a year when we have the most diverse roster of candidates ever.

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Response to delisen (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:37 PM

64. Correct. Age is benign compared to his other baggage.

We nominate him at our own peril. 2016 redux anyone?

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:52 PM

12. Would stick my neck out and say Texas is prime to turn blue - with Joe running. Add

Beto and we'd have a very high probability of taking TX. Maybe that's the future model? forget FL and OH - and shoot more toward turning GA, TX and AZ blue.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:00 PM

14. I like Joe Biden and would support him if he runs

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:11 PM

23. Don't you think he would do well here in TX ?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:12 PM

24. Yes, I think that Joe will do well here

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:05 PM

16. I believe he would absolutely, positively not beat Trump.

If he is our candidate, I will vote for him, of course.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:10 PM

20. Experience, knowledge and intelligence is what we need.

this would be an interesting pair Biden/Harris or Biden/Warren. hmm............. what do you DU'ers think?

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:18 PM

28. When I hear people say this, I think they must be a guy. I'm sure some women must be

that enthusiastic about him, but I don't happen to know any.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:22 PM

32. ME, my sister, and my best friend - That's three !

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:42 PM

47. So many in PA didn't like Hillary, unfortunately

Many of them women. I really underestimated the dislike here to her. They either voted just for the down-ticket, or for Clinton very unenthusiastically. "If only Joe had run...." I've heard this more than once from some of these people. Men, women, we all love Joe Biden here and he would win Pennsylvania back easily.

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Response to Sugarcoated (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:35 PM

62. Well, by the time 24 other states have voted, including Texas and CA,

preferences in places like PA might not matter that much.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #62)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 06:59 PM

73. In the general Joe will win it back for us

and probably the other rust belt states.

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Response to Sugarcoated (Reply #73)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:03 PM

74. Not if he can't win the primaries. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #74)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:25 PM

76. Good point. May end up being very split with the

Bright blue nominating progressive and rest center left. Hope I used those terms correctly. Do you think it might it breakdown similar to Bernie & Hillary?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #76)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:30 PM

79. It's way too early to know -- the race feels very different to me this time,

but it's just a feeling, nothing more.

And now there's the Schultz wild card. Ugh.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #79)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:56 PM

88. It's different to me because we have got to get rid of trump

Seriously. Of course I wanted to get rid of bush too. But it wasn't a matter of life and death. (Except for the Iraqis for sure).

I feel like DU is split already. Half think it's a prime time to finally get a true progressive in. The other half are more cautious and and getting Trump out and winning the White House back is the most important thing.

But like you say..too early..bet he won't even run.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #88)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:03 PM

91. I'm with you. It's life or death and we need the best candidate to beat Trump.

I don't know who that will be yet, but I don't think it will be Biden, Sanders, or Clinton.

But it could possibly be someone considered more centrist, but still a solid Democrat, like Klobuchar or Brown. (Brown is actually progressive.)

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #91)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:40 PM

99. I have always liked Brown and wonder too

Why Sheldon Whitehouse doesn't consider. Think he's cool.

Just hit me that a Castro/Castro ticket would be cool.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #91)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:43 PM

100. We gotta stop thinking it will be trump. If Mueller

Report as bad as we think..it will be a totally different repuke. Best case they nominate Dipshit pence.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #100)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:46 PM

111. You're absolutely right about that. And if Pence survives, I'm afraid

they're going to see the light and nominate Nikki Haley.

Imagine the first woman President being Nikki Haley. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, no matter what DU thinks about her. She has managed to keep her head above water, and I've never heard anyone (except maybe here) say she was unlikable. If the Rethugs were smart, they would turn the page on Trump forever by nominating her.



So we have to calculate who would be best against people as different as Donald Trump, Mike Pence, and Nikki Haley. Good luck on that!

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #111)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 11:13 PM

124. Well if trump doesn't survive..hard to believe his

servant would.

Fashion major Haley. Great creds!

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #74)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 02:26 AM

128. If he does win the primary

then he will

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #62)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:40 PM

120. Electoral college

Who can win the swing states? That is what matters

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Response to treestar (Reply #120)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:56 PM

121. There are swing states among the 24. But the electoral college doesn't apply

to the primaries.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:32 PM

60. +1

Please see my post below. This is the conventional white guy wisdom talking, and it completely misapprehends who is driving the re-invigoration of our party -- women, people of color, young people. Joe isn't going to win back MAGA cultists, either.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:21 PM

30. Joe's 76 right now and would be pushing 78 by November 2020

I personally believe age should be considered for all candidates as a factor in their current competency to both campaign and also to serve out the term for which they are running.

There are other persons - whether declared or not - that can beat donnie t and his russian supporters.

In any event, I will vote for Joe, a yella dog, or whomever is the D nominee.

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Response to RT Atlanta (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:23 PM

33. Do you agree with other poster that Harris could win GA?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:39 PM

46. In a fair fight (and that's a big IF) yes

Kamala's message resonates well and having her on the ballot along with, I am proud to say, my rep Lucy McBath, would bring a lot of good folks to the polls.

The challenge here in GA is the whole 'fair fight' - purged voter rolls and the god-damned mechanism for taking the votes. Diebold is what we have had for years with no verifiable way to audit. The issues with purged voters from last year's gov. race were well publicized.

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Response to RT Atlanta (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:50 PM

102. Do you think Abrams will bring that sad state of affairs up on Tuesday?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #102)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:23 PM

106. I sure hope so - she's filed a suit against the state

but if she references voter purgers, etc., it will probably be in a broader context (e.g. Kansas efforts) and not just GA specific.

I hope she'll also reference McTurtle's disgusting comments yesterday rebuffing the D's efforts to make the national election day a national holiday to ensure the electorate has an easier time getting to the polls to vote.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:24 PM

34. I'm tired of old white men ruining this country

It's time for anyone else. And I say that as an old white man myself.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:56 PM

68. Good point. I'm an oldster and agree it's time to pass the reins to the next generations.

Biden's dragging around heavy baggage. Younger candidates are much more promising imo.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:38 PM

119. Old white men who are democrats

Are fine with me.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:27 PM

35. Is there anyone else who would...absolutely, positively beat Trump?..I can think of one:

Michelle Obama. And yes, I would send money and vote for Michelle..

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:35 PM

118. Michelle is the only one who I can safely say would be a lock to beat that POS.

Shame she will not run.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:31 PM

38. He would win us back

Pennsylvania and the other blue collar-blue states that we lost for sure, maybe even Ohio.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:36 PM

44. Biden is about 4 years older than Trump.

I can just hear Trump making jokes about Biden's age... calling him a old has been, confused old man.. reminding us of the gaffes Biden has made in the past. Not sure Biden will be quick enough to counter Trump's biting insults. Trump is an idiot but he is certainly good at the insult game. That's how he got the Republican nomination in 2016. Biden is a good ole boy and not sure he wants to play the insult game. He is likely to just smile and let it ride. I love Joe but it's time for a new, fresh, younger face to counter Trump. Someone who is quick on their feet and not hesitant to attack Trump right back.. someone like Kamala Harris.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:44 PM

49. Joe can hand it back

It'll be the blue collar champion vs Richie Rich.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:53 PM

50. Until every candidates is forced to show a birth certificate

Joe is 61 years old

I believe it.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:16 PM

94. And Biden looks 15 years younger than Trump and is in better shape than most 50 year olds

You must have not seen Biden debate Ryan if you think he would “hesitate to attack” or won’t “play the insult game”

I dunno who I support yet but not ruling Biden out if he runs.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #94)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:32 PM

98. Good points. Yeah, Biden would probably do well and win..

but I just think Kamala is better bet at this point in time.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #98)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:46 PM

101. She is definitely on the top of my list!

I am very impressed

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #101)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 11:34 PM

125. Kamala is on the top of my list.

She speaks so well - and is inspirational. Love her smile. Most all of my women friends love her.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:44 PM

48. Don't Buy It

First off he is just too old. I like Joe but....remember Reagan his last year or 2?

I think we have more than a few younger potential candidates who could beat this abomination, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown and others.

It would be a 100% lock if we did not still have the ridiculous Electoral College. If we were not still stuck with that scam no Trump no Dubya.

BTW Columbus, where I live has about twice as many people as Wyoming, Wyoming gets two senators just like oh, California does, California having a population larger than a lot of countries.

The built in advantage for the right is just not fair in this day and age.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:56 PM

51. He can beat

Trump only if he can win the primary.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:05 PM

53. Biden/Harris has a nice ring to it!

OhYeah!

And I had friends say I was a Hillary Only fanatic on my FB and one of my wacky forums.

But, no, I'm almost any Dem over a Con!

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:14 PM

55. Agree! We must must win!

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:24 PM

56. This is one reason I love him, breaking the Gish Gallop!

http://www.nationalmemo.com/how-joe-biden-broke-the-gish-gallop/

"How did Biden succeed in neutralizing Paul Ryan when Ryan was making nearly the same case in nearly the same way Mitt Romney did last week? He broke the Gish Gallop.

Named after the creationist Duane Gish, the Gallop is a tactic wherein a debater spews so many lies and half-truths that rebutting each one is impossible. The technique leaves their opponent shaken and unable to make clear arguments.

Biden clearly made the decision that he was going to impede Ryan’s ability to lie confidently. Ryan went at the vice president with distortions on every issue from Iran to abortion. And Biden refused to let any go. He used his facial reactions and interjections to contest the lies, demanded his equal time and tied it all together with his somewhat mocking, Senatorial use of “my friend.” What was key to his strategy is that he actually spent little of his time rebutting facts. Instead he quickly bridged to his own arguments."

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Response to OhZone (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:52 PM

67. As I recall Biden actually . . .

laughed right in Ryan's face during the debates as Ryan trotted out the standard GOP line of a 20% tax cut and making America safe in the world again. Item by item, Joe Biden pulled down Ryan's pants on his ideological nonsense, threw his hands up with Ryan's outlandish claims and made a stark contrast between someone who knew what he was talking about vs Ryan's thin, soul-weary script.

I have no doubt that Joe Biden would make hash browns out of the Trumpster's no-nothing posture and bloviating claims.

No competition, not even close.

Joe Biden has yet to commit. But if he does, the pre-primary race will take a sudden U-turn.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:29 PM

57. Sorry, but this is the conventional white guy wisdom, and I don't buy it.

Biden has as many liabilities as any other candidate. 2018 was defined by women and people of color in the Democratic base propelling us to victory and changing the face (literally) of the House of Representatives. Now we're going to pick an old white dude as the party leader? In 2020?

Bottom line, choosing Biden will dampen the enthusiasm of important constituencies within our party and I'm not convinced that he's got the magic touch to bring back Midwestern MAGAs as so many have claimed. Those people are in a cult. They aren't coming back.

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Response to Maven (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:58 PM

69. Only some of them are in a cult. Most of the voters there are not MAGAts.

It was very close in the swing states. With Trump losing bits of his base, it's going to be hard for him to win the Midwest again against any Democrat, but Biden has roots and is loved in PA and other places by many.

Being so close, his slight Midwest positive might be all we need there.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:49 PM

66. I agree

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 05:07 PM

70. I agree

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 05:18 PM

71. Biden is my 2nd choice If Bernie doesn't run.

Go Biden!

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:22 PM

75. I believe Biden will beat Trump. But to me, we must win. Whoever is our candidate must

win by a large enough margin to beat Trump so there is no recount. No closeness. No question of the outcome.
Please note that Mr. Trump has done nothing on a nation wide basis to ensure that questions about the closeness of the outcome are not repeated..(that is questions of cheating and changing votes)

...He has done nothing. No national laws that I know about to make elections totally safe and reliable. therefore, we must win big. I think Trump is so bad that the Democrats will win big. I sure hope so.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:27 PM

77. I have to agree, although personally, I would prefer

one of the other, younger, more progressive candidates.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:30 PM

78. Joe would wipe the shit eating grin off his face

and show him the way out of the servants entrance of OUR WHITE HOUSE.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:33 PM

80. only a woman can beat tRump.

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #80)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:37 PM

81. I just hope that whoever the person is, wins. Yes, I think Biden will win, but I do not care as

long as we WIN..

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #81)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:49 PM

84. i love biden for his basic human decency. However, the way tRump plowed thru his primary against

mostly male opponents worries me.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #81)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 11:45 PM

126. I think younger voters will not be inspired by Biden

The straw polls are all over the place. Here is Daily Kos first primary straw poll with 35,000 voters. i voted in this poll for Kamala.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:39 PM

82. I think almost any Democrat will beat rump (and at least one putative independent).

 

But as much as I like Joe Biden, as a person, I don't think he's the right guy, at this time. Joe represents a return to the status quo ante and while that is a far better place than this, the nation has moved on. We have a ton of issues that are hanging fire and getting back to where we were is not gonna fix them. I don't see Biden leading the charge to transform this country and the world.

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Response to shanny (Reply #82)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:51 PM

85. There is a lady who in my opinion could "transform this country and the world" but

she isn't running. And I know Hillary represents the some of the past. But Hillary could wipe his ass. Sorry I had to say it. Yes, people will argue with me on that. So I will name another lady who would do the exact same thing: Michelle Obama. end of rant. (besides it ain't going to happen, that is ok, this is a discussion about an election more than 20 months away)......and again, ..We must WIN (and which ever Democrat runs,...We MUST WIN !!!!)

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #85)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:06 PM

93. +1

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:45 PM

83. Just ignore the midterm results and go for the old white guy

Predictable as fuck.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:56 PM

86. Geithner is the one!

 

Last edited Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:57 PM - Edit history (1)

I really am not big on these arguments. They are almost alway void of any argument that would work for others, or simply void of any argument at all.

I like Biden but he doesn’t excite me as a possible primary entrant. I do like it when he speaks for us, sometimes.

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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #86)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:00 PM

90. Are you referring to ...Timothy Geithner? Obamas Sec of Treasury?

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #90)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:58 PM

112. Yes. Made the correction. NT

 

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:57 PM

89. I agree. Biden/Warren.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #89)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:19 PM

95. That is an interesting combination.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #95)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:25 PM

97. I would rather have Inslee/Warren * but IMO for foreign policy repair Biden is necessary.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:05 PM

92. Anything can happen...it is so early in this upcoming election cycle....Another example:

On Feb 11, 2007 a senator from my state, Illinois, announced he was running for President. When he did that, I didn't think he had a chance, and boy was I wrong...WRONG, WRONG AND WRONG..!!!!!!

So it is so early, that anything can happen, and often does...(Who is in the WHITE HOUSE NOW?)



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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:51 PM

103. I'm not so convinced myself.

I think it's very dangerous to view any potential candidate as a certain win. We saw how that went in 2016.

Complacency is the last thing that we can afford right now.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:15 PM

105. He's the worst President in history; how could ANY of our candidates lose to him?

Though I said the same when we were running the most qualified candidate in history.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:23 PM

107. Joe Biden would be a lock for a BIG WIN.

Something to consider.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:24 PM

108. He would take tRump behind the shed.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 09:35 PM

110. Joe Biden for me.. Beto or Klobuchar

“Go With Joe. Bet On Beto.
I’m ready for 2020”

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #110)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:29 PM

115. So an all-white ticket? Great!



How would that make any sense for the Democratic ticket?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #115)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:59 PM

122. Your response makes no sense.

Also I don’t have to validate to anyone my opinion. I’m not alone in that opinion.
Maybe take up your sarcasm with them.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 11:01 PM

123. No way, dude! We must nominate a gay, disabled, minority trans wiccan!

At least that is what some folks keeping telling me. And "some folks" would not lie. Would they?

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 12:05 AM

127. We wouldn't ordinarily need Joe Biden. Nor would he perhaps ordinarily be elected.

The times are not ordinary. Now is the time for Joe Biden.

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