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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy the Hell are we not giving Northam credit/kudos for changing?
Does everyone here saying he needs to resign not realize some simple facts. First, he was still in school. Second, it was 30+ years ago in the South. Where I grew up in the South Minstrels still took place at that time. The mayor of the town appeared in black face.
The fact that the picture made it into the year book should tell you a lot about the environment in which he grew up.
Why isn't everyone here giving him credit for leaving those racist, bigoted ways behind? In the past.
This is not comparable at all to Kavanaugh. Who still picked a certain type of blonde for his law clerks right up until his appointment to the court.
Seriously, when does a person ever get forgiven by you people here who must have spotless lives?
ON EDIT:
People are clearly not understanding as kids in the South we were surrounded by this sort of thing. It was normal. There was NO reason for him to question whether or not this was offensive. I'll say it again. The fact it made it into the yearbook of a university should tell you that I'm not just excusing him by saying it was part of the environment - it WAS the environment. Hell, I had no clue that it was offensive until I was older than he was. We had 3 TV channels and NO internet. There wasn't anyone shouting down the rafters about these things back then.
manor321
(3,344 posts)bitterross
(4,066 posts)Well, you know what. They don't exist.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)Republicans will stand behind anyone. The Dem model doesn't often work well in the real world.
Beartracks
(12,814 posts)LexVegas
(6,062 posts)bitterross
(4,066 posts)LexVegas
(6,062 posts)people
(624 posts)This was not a high school yearbook - this is a medical school yearbook. He was already done with college and this was his last year of medical school.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)The fact that got into a university's year book should speak even louder volumes about the environment at the time.
It just makes my point even more valid.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)morality?
bitterross
(4,066 posts)In the 1980s South I grew up in there were not people pushing us all to go against the flow on these things. In the 1980s South I grew up in the African Americans were just moving across the tracks to the neighborhoods where no one but whites had ever lived. Even they were not public about these things being offensive as they tried to assimilate. That was a matter of survival for them then.
Things have changed a lot since then. Why can't people accept that Northam has changed?
Atticus
(15,124 posts)and confront. I grew up on the " white end" of the wrong side of the tracks. Somehow, we managed to figure out that people are people no matter what color they are.
Hassler
(3,377 posts)I don't think so. As much as we don't want to admit it, it's politics more than principle.
912gdm
(959 posts)in 20-30 years?
SweetieD
(1,660 posts)doing. He knew it was racist. His nickname while in college was coonman. He was or is a hardcore racist.
You have no idea if he has changed. He was in a picture dressed in a kkk robe or dressed in black face while saying his interest was "pediatrics" and he became a pediatrician....when he was 25!
There is no way in hell I would let him take care of my kids medical needs because who knows how he would treat them. There are white supremacists who go into certain fields to intentionally harm black people. Yes really. There was just a story of an emt who was exposed on a white supremacist site who said he intentionally ignored black patients needs.
I guess I'm just pissed. And I am black. And it is sickening seeing everyone on du defending him as not "racist". Most racists aren't advertising it in public. Maybe I need to find a new site.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)And if I may...
There is no way in hell I would let him take care of my kids medical needs because who knows how he would treat them.
Oh but we do know how the medical community treats black people: Terribly. They are undertreated, their pain is underestimated, and black women are much more likely to die in childbirth than white women, *because of racism.* There's a definitely connection between the photo and the kind of health care black people get in this country.
angrychair
(8,699 posts)1) That was college, not high school.
2) he knew it was in that yearbook this whole time but ignored it. Pretended it didnt exist instead of being a strong leader and dealing with it from the beginning.
Lastly, Virginia has a solid Democrat as their Lt Governor who would be a strong Governor.
JI7
(89,249 posts)bitterross
(4,066 posts)No one should ever be excused for going along with the crowd as a kid if they've overcome that flaw later?
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)Megyn Kelly's explanation. It was along the lines of "when we were in school, people dressed up in blackface and nobody had a problem with it." She's right around 50 years old, so if you're looking at that same 35-year time frame, she would have been in her early teens when she developed this mindset.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)I'm sorry you don't see that what people believed and how they acted back then were exactly as described. They were. The local city council put on the Minstrels and wore black face where I grew up - at the time period we're discussing.
The people have changed since then and that isn't how people feel now. It's not an excuse. It's just reality. Expecting him to have acted in a completely different way than the norms is not reasonable. No one at the time was making a big deal of it.
I suspect Northam has changed since then too. Why is it so damn difficult for people to accept that?
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Anyone who was an adult in 1985 knows there was no excuse.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)Not where I grew up.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)BlueStater
(7,596 posts)Racism is a pretty massive character flaw, but if he changed and became a better human being (and, from what I've seen in his political career, he has) then he should be forgiven.
This has nothing to with whether I think he should resign or not. I just don't believe that people should necessarily be eternally judged for who they used to be if they change and improve.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)like Beto did with his DUI and his misdemeanor offense in college.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)backabby-blue
(144 posts)Are you fucking serious? That is some privilege right there. Kudos for doing the bare minimum of being a human. Good god.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Some men can fuck up all they want, and then if they get caught, not only expect to be able to just shrug and say, "my bad" but some people actually APPLAUD them for no longer being a fuck up.
But let a black man screw up, regardless when, how or under what circumstances ...
backabby-blue
(144 posts)at people here defending him. Yes, everyone makes mistakes but how many of us expressed severe hatred for others and expect to be a leader for those people?
bitterross
(4,066 posts)Never made any mistakes? Good for you.
backabby-blue
(144 posts)I never expressed severe hatred for people who did not look like me either.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)I had no idea that blackface was offensive until I was older.
What everyone fails to realize is that when you are in the midst of it you don't realize what is offensive. It's all around you and almost everyone is doing it. So you have no reason to question it. It's "normal."
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)Black people. You know who didn't think it was normal? Black people. You know who was kept out of med schools, leadership and other positions of power for decades, and still are? Black people.
backabby-blue
(144 posts)It's not just a black face there though to me that is bad enough. There is a Klan man in the pic too. Are you wanting to forget that? Just give it up. It's horrific. It's sheer hatred.
Response to bitterross (Reply #24)
backtoblue This message was self-deleted by its author.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)Mickey Mouse?
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)delisen
(6,043 posts)calls for him to run for higher office. He can still be a private citizen however.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)delisen
(6,043 posts)cannot forgive him for subjecting me to his dental procedure photo. )However I secretly thought it was gutsy of him and possibly indicated a great sense of humor).
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)I mean...
no_hypocrisy
(46,104 posts)West Virginia Robert Byrd.
Can we make a decision after this evening's hysteria has passed?
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)And I lived in Virginia several years BEFORE then. No, this wasn't acceptable then. Of course, the Virginians I knew weren't racist.
no_hypocrisy
(46,104 posts)And you felt it in Norfolk and Hampton Roads as well.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)was unacceptable. No one I knew in Virginia would have thought it was okay. But I didn't hang out with racists, as he apparently did.
MrGrieves
(315 posts)I remember driving by konnarock VA and there was a sign that said All N*****s stay off the mountain in 1994!
Being from Minneapolis MN I was completely shocked and wanted to get the hell out of there as fast as possible.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)in a racist costume is racist and shameful. Good job! Go be governor!
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Seriously, WTF??
#ByeRalph....
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)He is a leading advocate of prison/judicial reform. How many minorities will be freed from this tyranny
under the new rules. Consider that.
ZZenith
(4,122 posts)I dont think his racism is as fleeting nor as innocent as some would have us believe.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)ZZenith
(4,122 posts)Question: How completely stupid would a person need to be to vote for George W. Bush not once, but twice?
Answer: Real fucking stupid.
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)I related in another thread how my high school friends and I refused to don blackface for a long running yearly event at my southern high school. The year was 1975, and I was in 10th grade.
No one in my school was ever asked to black their face again.
I think the governor should resign, and seek a career in race relations. It would be a good thing for his state...a beautiful place with a troubled past, and in a region marked for activity by Trump and his both sides friends.
He could rehab himself right back into the governors mansion.
Speaking as someone from Missouri whose governor was forced to resign recently(and I wanted him gone)...dont put Virginians through it, sir. There are better ways to fix this.
LexVegas
(6,062 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I knew it as a child and I still know it as an adult.
I didn't need the internet to learn either. And you're wrong, people were shouting it from the rafters and the pulpits and in the streets - perhaps you weren't paying attention.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)The language you use in your edit indicates that you're white, and your perspective that Northam should get credit for "changing" is also a white perspective. The problem is, that perspective makes it easy to gloss over the pain that the photo and the nickname inflict on black people.
The photo is problematic because it includes someone dressed in a klansman costume, a symbol of literal terror for black families across the south after the war and into the years when Northam was a young boy. It was not ancient history. as you say, "it was normal" and there was "no reason to question whether it was offensive." It was normal *for white people who wanted the status quo to remain as it was.* There was no reason *for white people to question* whether it was offensive, because in a white supremacy, it's not. But for black people, a costume like that at a party meant either laughing and going along with it (in med school, a white institution) to not rock the boat, or speaking up and being labeled a bore at best and uppity, troublesome, "above yourself" and a bad fit for the institution at worst.
Many people knew these symbols were hurtful and offensive, and they were black. When you say "no one knew," you erase their experience, knowledge, stories, history and ancestors. To play down the photo is to play down the lived reality of fear and danger black people across the south faced. Only a few white people had to actually be members of the klan, and only a few crosses had to be burned; that is the nature of terrorism. Just a few incidents keep everyone in line.
Please, reconsider whether this is the battle you want to fight, and whether the way you're fighting it is the best way to do so.
aeromanKC
(3,322 posts)That was just a few months ago.
Demonaut
(8,916 posts)it was a very different world in 1984
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)and I'm not talking about a DC suburb.
And this wouldn't have been acceptable among the good Virginians I knew.
Demonaut
(8,916 posts)yes..he has, he's not a racist
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Some of you are arguing like this happened at the height of Jim Crow or some shit. Pro-tip even then EVERYONE knew that blackface was some fucked-up bullshit nonsense!
Jesus people; some things arent acceptable, and you cant condemn racism on the Right while trying to paper over the same thing from people on our side.
Sneederbunk
(14,290 posts)JCMach1
(27,558 posts)have done such a thing...
delisen
(6,043 posts)infecting Republicans and Russians.
procon
(15,805 posts)are ROTFLTAO while stirring the pot to turn Dems against each other and get everyone fighting with each other instead of tearing into Trump.
Just be aware folks, you all know they're out there and how they operate so let's not be manipulated or provoked into rash actions that will have unintended consequences.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)PSPS
(13,598 posts)Baltimike
(4,143 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)where they can see that they would be stuck forever.