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Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:11 AM

Finland Gave People $640 A Month, No Strings Attached. Here's What Happened.

Huffington Post:
(snip)
Finland’s universal basic income test, which cost the government about $22.7 million, was designed and administered by the country’s social insurance agency, Kela. The experiment aimed to help the country assess how to respond to the changing nature of work and ― given its 8-percent unemployment rate at the time ― how to get people back into the labor market.

The trial ended in December. While final results won’t be available until 2020, preliminary results were revealed on Friday.
On employment, the country’s income register showed no significant effects for 2017, the first year of the trial.

The real benefits so far have come in terms of health and well being. The 2,000 participants were surveyed, along with a control group of 5,000. Compared with the control group, those taking part had “clearly fewer problems related to health, stress, mood and concentration,” said Minna Ylikännö, senior researcher at Kela. Results also showed people had more trust in their future and their ability to influence it.

“Constant stress and financial stress for the long term – it’s unbearable. And when we give money to people once a month they know what they are going to get,” said Ylikännö. “It was just €560 a month, but it gives you certainty, and certainty about the future is always a fundamental thing about well being.”
Read More:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/universal-basic-income-finland-ontario-stockton_us_5c5c3679e4b00187b558e5ab

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Reply Finland Gave People $640 A Month, No Strings Attached. Here's What Happened. (Original post)
FM123 Feb 11 OP
SammyWinstonJack Feb 11 #1
crazytown Feb 11 #6
Snotcicles Feb 11 #2
allgood33 Feb 11 #3
still_one Feb 11 #5
still_one Feb 11 #4
Danascot Feb 11 #7
rainin Feb 11 #12
FM123 Feb 11 #8
still_one Feb 11 #13
MissMillie Feb 11 #9
Anon-C Feb 11 #10
liberalmuse Feb 11 #11
aggiesal Feb 11 #14
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 11 #15
IronLionZion Feb 11 #16
Johnny2X2X Feb 11 #17
area51 Feb 11 #19
colsohlibgal Feb 11 #18

Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:15 AM

1. SOCIALISM!!!11!!!

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Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:46 AM

6. Nixon proposed it in 1970

Guaranteed Minimum Income to replace welfare. Everybody gets it. Hard to hate a benefit for the poor when it’s going in your pocket as well.

Nixon had bad experiences with welfare as a child. He felt it would reduce stigma and bureaucracy.

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:24 AM

2. It should be strictly voluntary. Never force someone out of impoverishment and uncertainty. nt

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:27 AM

3. Finland is a different culture altogether. As soon as greedy landlord find out their renters get

$630/month their rents will soar and prices will go up in neighborhood mom&pop stores. Food stamps will stop.

You know as well as I do that this would not be done here without huge thick strings attached.

I would be fine if nothing else was cut from benefits of those who could qualify for this basic income.

Don't know enough about the trial so i will read up on it thoroughly. I have a feeling that it turn out just like the tax cut legisltion...a scam on the middle and lower class.

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Response to allgood33 (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:35 AM

5. It was basically a trial of 2000 unemployed folks who were unemployed to see what if any benefits

resulted. While the results are still being evaluated it left those involved happier, but unemployed:


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47169549

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:31 AM

4. The 2000 randomly selected in this experment targeted were unemployed.

"From January 2017 until December 2018, 2,000 unemployed Finns got a monthly flat payment of €560 (£490; $634).
The aim was to see if a guaranteed safety net would help people find jobs, and support them if they had to take insecure gig economy work.
While employment levels did not improve, participants said they felt happier and less stressed."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47169549


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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 08:51 AM

7. Republicans are happy

when people are stressed and miserable.

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Response to Danascot (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:23 AM

12. and sick...and uneducated...and uninformed...and powerless.

Take everything, give nothing, and call them lazy. Then, find ONE example of a poor person carrying a cell phone, or buying lobster with his food stamps and amplify that to justify getting rid of social programs that provide phones and food to poor people.

I've added to your comment the best I could and I still believe I'm only capturing a small part of the evil of republicans.

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:04 AM

8. Stockton, CA giving residents $500 month stipend

CNN (snip)

The Stockton experiment is not the first demonstration of universal basic income. Similar programs have already been conducted by various organizations or governments in Finland, Italy, Uganda, Cambodia and India.

In Finland, a monthly stipend of 560 euros was given to 2,000 unemployed people between the ages of 25 and 58. In Cambodia, $5 a month went to pregnant women and children. A 12-year pilot program sponsored by the nonprofit GiveDirectly.org is underway in Kenya, while a similar program sponsored by the Canadian government is undergoing testing in Ontario. Another pilot, backed by startup accelerator Y Combinator, will give 1,000 people in Oakland, California, $1,000 a month for up to 5 years.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/09/technology/stockton-california-basic-income-experiment/index.html

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:15 AM

9. I've seen studies on the effects of uncertainty

most of them having to do with child support.

Three groups: one that had everything they needed and knew they were going to have everything they needed; one that never had anything they needed and knew they were not going to have what they needed; and a third that sometimes had what they needed and sometimes didn't.

The third group performed the worst, even behind those that never had what they needed.

Stress mucks up everything.

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:27 AM

10. "Constant stress and financial stress for the long term"

Sounds like a Howard Shultz campaign pitch.

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:48 AM

11. Too bad health and well being is not so valued in the US.

It doesn’t seem to be a priority here as people work long hours or multiple jobs and often forgo vacation if they have it. Where companies keep all the income at the top and throw the scraps to their lower tiered workers.

Most Americans have to worry from birth to death whether misfortune or illness is going to be financially devastating. Not so in those terrible “socialist” countries where taxes are higher but college is not going to be your mortgage, healthcare is affordable and getting a well paying job with several weeks mandatory vacation that will cover the necessities and more isn’t just a pipe dream.

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:51 AM

14. They'll spend it on drugs. ...

Do I need to put that sarcasm thingee?

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:02 AM

15. Conservatives cancelled Ontario's basic income test because it was working progressively. . . nt

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:13 AM

16. That's why Finland rakes their forests!



Certainty of the future is un-American. People need to be perpetually in fear of losing our jobs and healthcare so we can more easily accept lower wages/benefits and blame immigrants for our problems. We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:21 AM

17. This is a discussion that the US will have to have.

The automation movement eliminated millions of factory jobs. The use of AIs is going to eliminate tens and tens of millions of office jobs in this country. The only way for the masses to share in the benefits of AIs is to have a guaranteed income. Otherwise the rich will monopolize the gains and keep it all to themselves.

So interesting that the biggest benefits are health benefits so far. It's just accepted by most Americans that laying awake at night worrying about bills is just a part of adulthood. The working class worries about paying for the basics because there is virtually no social safety net. And this doesn't change with the more money you make for most. In fact it can get worse, my income is high enough now that the social safety net might as well not exist to me. If I were laid off and couldn't find work within 6 months I'd face financial ruin because unemployment would not pay my bills and I'd be eating into my savings just to make ends meet. And having a few months worth of bills in savings makes me in a much better spot than most.

There is an illusion of security among the upper middle class. I have a couple degrees that are in demand to fall back on, but things can change quickly with technology that might make my degrees not a guarantee of a job. In my state the Unemployment benefit is maxed out at $363 a week before taxes, I could pay my mortgage with that, but nothing more. Getting sick while laid off would ruin me completely. People have no clue how close to a crisis they are living. The social safety net has been dismantled almost entirely, this effects more Americans than people are willing to admit.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:51 PM

19. +1 n/t

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Response to FM123 (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:39 PM

18. I Am So For This Idea

We could easily afford it for all who need it if we quit giving tax breaks to billionaires and cut our bloated beyond belief Defense Budget.

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