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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPeter Jackson's Cartoon War Sanitized images like these are war pornography. That they are no longe
Peter Jacksons Cartoon War
Sanitized images like these are war pornography. That they are no longer jerky and grainy and have been colorized in 3D merely gives old war porn a modern sheen.
by
Chris Hedges
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"It is fortunate all the participants in the war are dead," writes Hedges of the new film, They Shall Not Grow Old. "They would find the film another example of the monstrous lie that denied their reality, ignored or minimized their suffering and never held the militarists, careerists, profiteers and imbeciles who prosecuted the war accountable." (Photo: They Shall Not Grow Old/Warner Bros.)
When director-producer Peter Jacksons World War I film, They Shall Not Grow Old, which miraculously transforms grainy, choppy black-and-white archival footage from the war into a modern 3D color extravaganza, begins, he bombards us with the clichés used to ennoble war. Veterans, over background music, say things like I wouldnt have missed it, I would go through it all over again because I enjoyed the service life and It made me a man. It must have taken some effort after the war to find the tiny minority of veterans willing to utter this rubbish. Military life is a form of servitude, prolonged exposure to combat leaves you broken, scarred for life by trauma and often so numb you have difficulty connecting with others, and the last thing war does is make you a man.
Far more common was the experience of the actor Wilfrid Lawson, who was wounded in the war and as a result had a metal plate in his skull. He drank heavily to dull the incessant pain. In his memoirs Inside Memory, Timothy Findley, who acted with him, recalled that Lawson always went to bed sodden and all night long he would be dragged from one nightmare to anotheroften yellingmore often screamingvery often struggling physically to free himself of impeding bedclothes and threatening shapes in the shadows. He would pound the walls, shouting Help! Help! Help! The noise, my dearand the people.
David Lloyd George, wartime prime minister of Britain, in his memoirs used language like this to describe the conflict:
nexhaustible vanity that will never admit a mistake
individuals who would rather the million perish than that they as leaders should owneven to themselvesthat they were blunderers
the notoriety attained by a narrow and stubborn egotism, unsurpassed among the records of disaster wrought by human complacency
a bad scheme badly handled
impossible orders issued by Generals who had no idea what the execution of their commands really meant
this insane enterprise
this muddy and muddle-headed venture.
The British Imperial War Museum, which was behind the Jackson film, had no interest in portraying the dark reality of war. War may be savage, brutal and hard, but it is also, according to the myth, ennobling, heroic and selfless. You can believe this drivel only if you have never been in combat, which is what allows Jackson to modernize a cartoon version of war.
. . . . .
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/02/11/peter-jacksons-cartoon-war
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...as a historian, this is way the hell off the mark.
niyad
(113,283 posts)Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...the whole premise is bunk.
niyad
(113,283 posts)Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...and he restored 100 year-old film.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)This article surprises me.
I wonder if the OP saw this movie.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I think it was a fantastic thing he did.
I hope they go further and use this tech on more footage.
I could see a movie about the air war or the naval part of WWI.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I think re-doing these films serves that purpose.
Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #3)
NCChomskyan This message was self-deleted by its author.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)As are so many of the movies about the many wars. And the millions of dead soldiers from this first "world war", so many that countless European towns were essentially depopulated of men of certain age brackets, are all forgotten.
They are colorized images of people killed to satisfy power politics.
Recommended.
niyad
(113,283 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And considered suitable for children.
niyad
(113,283 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Given the fact that quite a few movies are about some sort of armed human conflict.
We did not become the dominant lifeform on the planet, but being meek and mild, sitting in the shade, snacking on nuts and berries. We got it by being the meanest, toughest, roughest SOBs this planet has ever seen. You, like the rest of humanity would not be here if we had not.
To quote Star Trek: "We are a race of killers. All we can say is, we will not kill today."
niyad
(113,283 posts)and, I don't watch those films that glorify and revel in human violence.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Sorry you have trouble with that. The animal world it is the same thing, eat or be eaten
brooklynite
(94,519 posts)If the answer is "no", what's wrong with ensuring that the film is as accurate and detailed as possible. as opposed to rickety, jerky footage we're all used to?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)His article says the film should have been about the strategy of the generals, and the profits made by arms manufacturers. There is, of course, room for many books and films about that. But Hedges is a pompous ass who insists that all films should follow his analysis.
As EarlG says below, the film had plenty about the realities of the war. It's just that it was about the footage we have of what happened, rather than talking heads describing the leaders.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)is in keeping with the great man view of history.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)(those soldiers that survived might not have seen themselves as "victims", or course). Jackson's film used their words, and pictures of what they did in the war; Hedges wants the film to have been about the stupidity of the generals, the censorship, the state and civil liberties, and the arms manufacturers' profits. Hedges puts forward the "failed great man" view of history.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and the willingness of people to be persuaded that every war is a great and just war.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)this movie in no way glorifies war.
In fact it brings to life the disastrous consequences and uselessness of this war.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Because it very clearly does not glorify or romanticize war. In any way. It is a brutal and, dare I say, touching look at the virtual hell those soldiers went through.
The end of the film has the WWI British soldiers talking about how they were no different than the Germans they were killing/capturing. They make they point you seem to think needs to be made.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And no, I have not seen the movie.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)'Sanitized' is just a lie.
I doubt you can watch it here from the USA, but in case you can, here it is: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0brzkzx/they-shall-not-grow-old
There's a transcript here: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/movie_script.php?movie=they-shall-not-grow-old
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)A few months ago.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)I saw it at a special one day showing, but now I see it is playing in more theaters.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)At all. My daughter couldn't watch a lot of it. It shows the horrors of war and you hear actual WWI soldiers talking about it.
It's a great film and this review got it completely wrong.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)there is nothing "sanitized" in this film.
And in fact the restoration makes the horror of that war very real.
You have erred in your assessment.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)edhopper
(33,575 posts)it might also end up on Netflix or something like that.
I do know what you mean by war porn. I thought that Mel Gibson WWII movie recently was such.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Amazing. You just took Hedges word for it? Read on, guillaumeb. Others here have seen it. Read what they say, then see if yourself.
Have you served in the military? Do you have relatives who have?
edhopper
(33,575 posts)it is a brilliant documentary that brings a century old cluster fuck to life.
Did you even see the film?
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)me what my experience was.
I was not permitted to live in your black and white world. I dont mean that ethnically.
niyad
(113,283 posts)I certainly know what my own experiences were, dealing with the consequences of that insanity.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)I wouldnt try to explain to the world what I thought about what you experienced.
Having no first hand knowledge of it especially.
When I got home in 1968 I did not dare to tell anyone I was in the war.
I was drafted and did not choose to go to war. And you have no idea what my experiences where. You cant define it for everyone.
niyad
(113,283 posts)that is not possible.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)but the film uses archived interviews with actual WWI soldiers. Those are the only words in the film. They are telling their own story.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)isnt written by those who lived it but becomes what a later bunch of people say it is.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)You might like this movie, then. He takes interviews that WWI vets did with the BBC and uses that as the narration. There is no non-involved party doing any commentary on the movie. It's just actual footage from the war and actual soldiers giving us their story.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Having watched the film, the most unsettling experience was watching some of the most violent scenes I've ever seen on film personalized through the weary eyes of soldiers long since dead.
Though it doesn't prove any new insights into the conflict (I don't think he even touched on the broader socio-economic aspects of the conflict), I don't think it was meant to do so, but rather place a newer perspective on the British soldiers themselves; turning the telescope around, so to speak.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)it was about the every day soldier and their experience. It did not glorify the war or show it as anything but a horrible event.
msongs
(67,403 posts)that are drawing the criticism. IMO The last scene of "all is quiet on the western front" is a much better editorial summation of the futility of ww1
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)I've found the best "clip/response" to the conflict in this 3 minute video:
"Who would notice another mad man around here?"
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)Brilliant conclusion to the series.
Both my grandfathers served in WW1 too, but never talked about it. I'd dearly love to travel back in time now and do so...
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)He uses actual footage. The only words being spoken are by actual WWI British soldiers telling their stories to the BBC. Jackson did a great job of matching footage to the narrative of the soldiers.
Itchinjim
(3,085 posts)edhopper
(33,575 posts)niyad
(113,283 posts)FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)He and his handlers are lucky the American Expeditionary Force left Russia in 1919.
We wont make that mistake again.
EarlG
(21,947 posts)Yes, the first part of the movie was about the men joining up and *thinking* that they were going to be part of a jolly adventure. It did indeed contain veterans saying positive things about the experience of joining up, thinking you were doing something patriotic, and how it made them physically fit.
Then the movie goes into graphic detail about the reality of the actual war, vivid descriptions of death and disease, filthy conditions, gas attacks, shell shock, men losing their minds, and a long segment describing the experience of going over the top and walking towards the enemy machine gun fire, being shelled by your own guns -- narrated by the surviving solders who actually did it. It's horrifying.
The movie contains footage of soldiers dying, and graphic still photographs of battlefield corpses. It ends by describing how the veterans who came home were basically ignored and then forgotten after the war was over.
I'm not sure how anyone can watch this movie and come away thinking that it makes war look good.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...and I didn't walk away from the movie thinking it as any sort of glorification of war. It was great work by Mr Jackson and I hope he does more (as a Méliès fan, I hope he provides the same treatment to Le Voyage dans la Lune ).
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)when he demands that a film explicitly about the experience of the common soldier should instead have concentrated on the politics, the economics, and the strategy of the generals. He thinks that there's only one story to tell about World War One. He is not a historian or documentary maker. He doesn't get to control how the world remembers a war.
The review reads more like someone who has an ax to grind rather than someone who actually watched the film.
Your assessment of the film was exactly my own. Personally, I thought the restoration of the film and photos added a level of connection for modern audiences.
Hekate
(90,671 posts)edhopper
(33,575 posts)and this "review" belongs in those makeshift latrines from the film.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)This review is shit.
Does it romanticize these young men? To some extent. Does it romanticize the war? It absolutely does not.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I found the film to put a human face on the men that went into the meat grinder that was WWI. It in no way romanticizes that war or any other war. It was very much Not War Porn.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)He's trying too hard. It's forced and pretentious. I get the feeling this is more about (re)establishing his own "creds" by being contrary and controversial, than it is about writing a fair, honest and thoughtful review.
Response to niyad (Original post)
geralmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I'm guessing not. The image of the men at an outdoor mess depicts one aspect of military life during wartime. We don't know who those soldiers are, whether they had experienced combat, or whether they might even be rear echelon support people.
War is a horror. War is not romantic. However, there are times when groups of men in uniform are relaxed and laugh, as they are in that photograph. Later, they may die screaming, but...
I've known veterans of four wars: WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Some were combat veterans. Others were in supporting roles. Those two groups often have a very, very different way of looking back on their time in the military.
One thing I have noticed is that the combat veterans generally do not speak of that experience often, and only to other combat vets for the most part. The rear echelon folks, on the other hand, often speak proudly of their service, their friends, the camaraderie, and the usual complaints about military life.
For many who served in the military, but who were not combat troops, those years are sometimes the high point of their lives. My father-in-law was one such person. He was a supply sergeant in the Army during WWII, and spend most of his time stationed in Panama. He had countless stories about funny things that happened while he was in the service, his friends, and things like that.
My father, on the other hand, was a 20-year-old B-17 pilot near the end of WWII. He never talked about the war or about his experiences until he was almost 70 years old. Then, he began sharing some of his experiences with me. It was not a high point in his life, and he had reservations about bombing runs in Germany that he was in. He saw a number of his fellow pilots and crews go on a mission, never to be seen again. He spoke about the ground crews who made a point of not getting friendly with the air crews, because so many didn't return from missions.
War is not one thing. It is many things. I haven't seen this film, but I suspect that it shows more than one aspect of WWI. I'm not sure that Chris Hedges understood what he watched completely, but he's welcome to his opinion.
Me? I was in the USAF from 1965-69. I was not a combat anything. I was a Russian language analyst. I was in Turkey. While some of my friends served in Vietnam, some of them not coming back alive, I was doing something completely different. Near the end of my service, I was stationed near Washington, DC and became part of the anti-war movement. My story is completely different from someone in a platoon walking through an Agent Orange treated jungle. I can't understand that experience, because I did not have that experience.
I'll probably see that film. Then I'll know how I feel about it. I probably won't take Chris Hedges' word for it. He wasn't there.
Hekate
(90,671 posts)edhopper
(33,575 posts)it is an incrdible experience.
hatrack
(59,584 posts)He's trying to shoehorn whatever his ideology happens to be into the act of remastering and correcting the speed of old film, and producing in the process a remarkable documentary.
Corpses and botflies, graphically portrayed in the movie, somehow transmute into "war porn" in his view. Would omitting them evoke criticism in the opposite direction, that the film had been "sanitized"?
And the veterans whose voices were provided by the Imperial War Museum were the voices of those willing to speak of their experiences, as opposed to the maimed, the blind, the psychologically shattered, which rather tends to blunt whatever edge he imagines his critique possesses.
Strange, isn't it, that some of the men and women who went through this, people born well over 100 years ago, those who chose to speak, might view their own experiences differently from the way Hedges views them?
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Accurate, too, I'd guess.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Then wrap an article around it.
Well said.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)About a war and war experiences usually overlooked.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)If Hedges wants to partake in some gritty/horrifying/tragic/cynical media related to the First World War, there's already enough out there to fill the English Channel?
And last I checked, there's nothing stopping Hedges from getting his own film project together... What does he have against Jackson?
sarisataka
(18,633 posts)Because a person dared make a film different from the way he would have done it.
With the caveat that I have not seen this film, it is not inaccurate to say many did go to WW1 willingly and even joyfully; especially at the beginning when everyone expected a very short war.
I would dispute his anecdote about the actor's experience being "far more common". Most participants in war come back with no physical wounds at all, let alone a serious head wound.
There are high-level factors which drive a war but those are basically invisible at the individual level. The individual's knowledge of the war is limited to their 5 senses and the never ending rumor mill.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Jacksons film does NOT sanitize ANYTHING about the war to end all wars. Nor do the voices of the actual veterans, recorded long ago, toss cliches about it was a different era, and men who experienced the insanity of trench warfare desperately tried to remain polite and respectful of their fallen comrades and yes, even their enemies. And the film does not flinch from showing piles of mangled, maggot-infested corpses in various states of decay. One shocking sequence shows (in long shot) a group of horsemen getting blown into mere vapor.
I abhor colorization of classic films. Yet here again, Jackson uses the refreshed images as a technique to make them more immediate. The film begins and ends in primarily black and white, but for the middle section, the screen ratio expands, and the crisp images look as if they were filmed yesterday.
Its a monumental work, worthy of the highest praise. And the subject of WWI is of far greater interest to the Brits and ANZACS, who endured far greater losses than the latecoming United States.
To hell with Chris Hedges and his bullshit vision.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)is so far off the mark he isn't in the same theater.
The voices are from the men who served. How they remember it is up to them and the movie in no way sanitizes war.
The restoration is breathtaking and brings these men, the common soldiers, who w once only saw through choppy, grainy black and white, to life.
The movie is a remarkable achievement and deserves all the accolades it is receiving.
I recommend everybody sees this movie.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)that had was followed by Jackson explaining how the film came about.
He didn't set out with any predetermined ideas. Only to use the British War Musum's film archive in a different way.
When they found out they could restore it like this after experimenting, they movie grew organically.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)What absolute garbage this article was, and trying to erase veterans' actual words like that is particularly vile and all-too-Hedges.
Paladin
(28,254 posts)There's nothing pornographic or cartoonish about photographic restorations of soldiers at war.
Response to niyad (Original post)
Oneironaut This message was self-deleted by its author.
harumph
(1,898 posts)If anything - it shows surprisingly contemporary looking
faces caught in the midst of the first mechanized war over 100 years ago.
It shows us that war is always a possibility in whatever time - functions as a cautionary tale - and reflects
cynically on human nature - which is a good lesson (I think).
I get what he is saying, but there is more than one type of war documentary.
I want to add that Chris thinks it's porn because he fundamentally thinks the audience is stupid.
IOW - he doesn't trust that normal people are capable of separating the aesthetics from the message.
He's a modern day Cotton Mather. He's got interesting things to say. But this article
isn't his best by a long shot.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Because Jackson explores pretty clearly the trauma of WWI in this film.
bdjhawk
(420 posts)The movie actually gave an intimate look at the horrors these people went through. My father was a combat veteran of WWII and we always saw WWII movies and tv shows. As Ive grown older, I have thought a lot more
about the day to day grind- the details of everyday life. Besides seeing the horrors of battle in this movie, we also saw what it was like to have no toilet paper, wear filthy clothes, eat tins of crappy food and this was for months on end. One scene that was particularly stunning was looking into the eyes of a group of young soldiers waiting during a calm moment and being told that virtually all of them were dead 30 minutes later.
As others have mentioned , this was shown in the US on three dates only in Dec and Jan. Apparently, the response was good as it is now being shown on many more screens and on a daily run.
If you do see it, please do yourself a favor and stay for the post- movie addition of Jackson telling how the movie was made. No detail was spared in making this as authentic as possible (colors of uniforms, grass, etc) and the technology was so interesting to learn about. You can tell it was a labor of love to make this as authentic as possible. The effort should be applauded and not condemned. I highly recommend it!
gtar100
(4,192 posts)Military actions kill far more civilians - men, women and children who are innocent victims caught in the middle. There is no honor in that. It's a god damn nightmare brought to real life.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Pretty much gets covered in the movie.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)you would know this movie is nothing of the sort and the OP is completely off base.
Thanks. Sorry, guess I'm triggered by the issue.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)"War Porn"...
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)But Isnt it interesting that if you post pictures of battle injuries, or mutilations,, much less deaths, even on DU youd need a graphic content warning.
People dont want to see it.
RichardRay
(2,611 posts)The reviewer has an analysis. Hes trying to force the film into his analysis. People do this all the time on politics, racial justice, economic inequality, etc. It is a difficult way to view the world.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)You should.