What those idiotic parents did, trying to get their kids into a name college, is beyond me.

[pnwmom]

The wealthy parents who had hundreds of thousands to throw away on bribes could have kept their money, sent them to public colleges or universities, and helped pay for grad school and/or a house instead.

But no, they were so desperate for their offspring to go to certain "name colleges" that they took these crazy risks to put them there.

I.Do.Not.Get.It.

Here is the court filing laying out the charges against them.

https://www.scribd.com/document/401711584/Nationwide-College-Cheating-Scam-Complaint?campaign=VigLink&ad_group=xxc1xx&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/these-are-the-craziest-allegations-against-parents-implicated-in-historic-college-cheating-scam/

The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Massachusetts and the FBI announced at a press conference Tuesday that 33 individuals are charged by complaint with conspiracy to commit mail fraud and honest services mail fraud for allegedly participating in the “largest college admissions scam ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.” Two names that immediately grabbed headlines were Desperate Housewives Felicity Huffman and Full House actress Lori Loughlin.

Those charged by complaint were named as follows: Gregory Abbott, Marcia Abbott, Gamal Abedelaziz, Diane Blake, Todd Blake, Jane Buckingham, Gordon Caplan, Michael Center, I-Hsin “Joey” Chen, Amy Colburn, Gregory Colburn, Robert Flaxman, Mossimo Giannulli, Elizabeth Henriquez, Manuel Henriquez, Douglas Hodge, Felicity Huffman, Agustin Hunees, Bruce Isackson, Davina Isackson, Michelle Janavs, Elisabeth Kimmel, Marjorie Klapper, Lori Loughlin, Toby McFarlane, William McGlashan, Marci Palatella, Peter Jan Sartorio, Stephen Semprevivo, Devin Sloane, John Wilson, Homayoun Zadeh, Robert Zangrillo.

Because we can, we’re going to walk through the craziest allegations against most of these individuals. But first, here’s what FBI agent Laura Smith said about who they are and what they allegedly did.

“Beginning in or about 2011, and continuing through the present, the defendants — principally individuals whose high-school aged children were applying to college — conspired with others to use bribery and other forms of fraud to facilitate their children’s admission to colleges and universities in the District of Massachusetts and elsewhere, including Yale University, Stanford University, the University of Texas, the University of Southern California, and the University of California-Los Angeles, among others,” Smith said.

SNIP

[2naSalit]

1. Big money and big names.

so shallow that they have to bribe people to make them appear to be "better" than...

[uponit7771]

2. K&R, Know a person who finds it hard to find good experienced professionals no matter ...

... what school they came from !!

There's' literally not enough people in some jobs to care about if they came from Yale Harvard etc.

I worked with a guy from MIT who hated talking about being from MIT ... said it doesn't really make a difference in the work place, you don't perform it just makes you look worse.

strange...

I think University of South Dakota was on the list

[pnwmom]

4. I think my father was correct when he always used to say

the only time your degree would matter was for your first job. After that, nobody wants to know where you went to college. They want to know what you've accomplished.

And I figured out something else later on: grad schools like to take students from a VARIETY of colleges. So you might have a better chance getting accepted to MIT's grad school if you're a top student from South Dakota, instead of one of many applying from Harvard.

[uponit7771]

8. THIS !!!! Your pops is so right ... after that first job it's what you've done and your degree could

... be from anywhere.

There's not enough experienced people who are professional to throw out folks that are not from "top colleges" which now days is regional meaning no one in Texas cares if a person graduated from North Western and No on in Washington DC cares if someone graduated from Purdue.

But graduate from TCU in DFW area and you're ivy league !!!

[pnwmom]

10. Right. Here the elite school is University of Washington.

Ivy league? Meh.

[Raine]

3. It's not like these spoiled brats needed a good education to get a better life

they were already living the high life with a prosperous future ahead of them due to their parents connections.

[pnwmom]

6. Exactly. Their parents have enough money to set them up for life. Or they would have

if they didn't just throw it away.

[uponit7771]

14. +1, I just thought this too ... why do those parents even care ?! I don't live in that kind of money

... that would pay someone a million to get my kids into anything so I don't know.

I understand they don't want their kids to be extra stupid but that's why pushing them in high school is good.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. Status. They want to be able to say their kid is going to Yale, not the local community college.

[LisaM]

5. I have a friend who runs a college prep business for well-to-do clients.

She could probably tell some stories about what parents will do to get their kids into college, and the false expectations they have for their kids. And, they're relentless, to the point where she has to sometimes fire them (the parents, not the kids).

Frankly, I'm not surprised. And, also frankly, I don't know that it's all that different from someone giving a University a huge endowment so their kid gets into a college, either. Just putting a different name on the same gig.

[pnwmom]

7. Except the money is going to the University for an endowment or a building or something

to benefit the University . . . . instead of just going into the pockets of Rick Singer and his conspirators.

Here's an article about that:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/opinion/editorials/college-bribery-scandal-admissions.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage&fbclid=IwAR1GZdWT1kQosEtD3iAAnmGpaAep5pNL-2DCfYz9sO8AVaDjQW9EM6iAkXc


Turns Out There’s a Proper Way to Buy Your Kid a College Slot

Charges against parents accused of gaming the admissions process are a defense of the institutions’ property, not of meritocracy.

[LisaM]

9. Yes, I suppose there's truth to that.

It's still a bit unfair, and the universities sit on those endowments to a large extent, but it's still buying their way into school. Point taken, though.

[pnwmom]

11. Did you get a chance to see the article I added? The editors were making your point. n/t

[LisaM]

22. Is it in this thread?

Thanks for that.

[pnwmom]

23. Here it is again:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/opinion/editorials/college-bribery-scandal-admissions.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage&fbclid=IwAR1GZdWT1kQosEtD3iAAnmGpaAep5pNL-2DCfYz9sO8AVaDjQW9EM6iAkXc


Turns Out There’s a Proper Way to Buy Your Kid a College Slot

Charges against parents accused of gaming the admissions process are a defense of the institutions’ property, not of meritocracy.


Federal prosecutors presented themselves as champions of meritocracy on Tuesday as they announced the indictments of 33 affluent parents who they say sought to buy spots for their children at selective institutions, and of college employees accused of helping them.

“There can be no separate college admissions system for the wealthy,” said Andrew Lelling, the United States attorney for the District of Massachusetts. He described the parents charged in the case as samples from “a catalog of wealth and privilege,” and he added, “For every student admitted through fraud, an honest, genuinely talented student was rejected.”

If the allegations are true, people should be held to account. But this case is not a defense of meritocracy in college admissions. What the government actually is defending is private property — the right of the colleges to make their own decisions about admissions, and collect the payments.

Indeed, Mr. Lelling himself made clear at a news conference on Tuesday that the government is well aware wealthy people regularly donate money to colleges to secure the matriculation of their children — and the government is not attacking the conduct of that business as usual.

SNIP

[LisaM]

27. Thanks again.

Clearly this is all very complicated.

[madaboutharry]

12. It is just insane.

What makes me angry is how some of these parents thought it was a big joke.

[BlueTsunami2018]

13. What is there not to get?

This has been standard practice for the Biff and Muffy class forever. Buying your way into a prestigious college is a status symbol. The difference is that most of the truly grotesque wealthy call them “legacy” admissions. If these people were old money there wouldn’t be a problem. They were only doing what the privileged people have always done, they mistakenly believed having some cash put them in the same category.

If things were truly based on merit, people like W would have never been let into Yale and Тяцмр would never have gotten into Penn. There are probably thousands of trust fund kids in Ivy League schools who have no business being there. They just have “legacy” and a boatload of cash.

What I don’t get is that anyone is surprised or outraged about it because some actors are involved. This isn’t anything new.

[pnwmom]

16. I don't get wealthy parents who are so desperate that they are willing to risk prison

in order for their kid to go to a particular name college.

The alums who make large donations to their college aren't risking anything besides their money.

[Dorian Gray]

49. This is NOT a defense of what the parents did...

Not at all

But, I suspect that the school advisors told them how they get kids into schools, and the parents just thought "Okay, cool."

They knew they'd have to spend money, but didn't think about the legality of the actions. Bending rules, not breaking them type of thing.


But, when you look at the cultural aspect of it, and who was doing it, it shows how this lifts up the wealthy while holding down those with less means. It's shocking.

And while I don't want to defend endowments as many of them sit in financial vehicles earning more money rather than working directly for educating and building a university, that money COULD eventually be used for capital campaign projects, hiring, offering scholarships to kids who could benefit, etc. THIS wasted money was....

Yeah, it's all so lurid and gross.

[pnwmom]

50. I read somewhere that the parents were connected by referral -- in other words, other parents

told them through the grapevine.

[Dorian Gray]

51. I'm sure

Here in NYC there is a whole industry of school advisors. They help you navigate the public schools, private schools and college admissions.

I'm sure SOME of these have some shady dealings.

One of my friends used one of them to navigate the pre-school and Kindergarten process. (But as an advisor for what was available to her in the public school sphere.) I believe it was a 450$ for a couple of conversations and information on public schools in district, gifted and talented admissions process, charter and magnet schools available and city-wide programs that her kids may qualify for.

NYC is famously complicated if you don't want to go to your assigned school.

But there is a whole lot of wealth here and people willing to pay LOTS to get their kids into one of the top private schools. I'm sure there's tons of greasing the wheels.

[BigmanPigman]

15. This starts at pre-school, believe me.

Parents are like this and have been like this for as long as I can remember. Nothing new here. Try being a teacher of one of these "elite children". I would rather clean fish than deal with that attitude and I have dealt with it since the 90s. Been there, done that.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

17. The perceived value of a degree from a Name University

is vastly greater than the perceived value of a degree from most public universities.

Heck, the premise of the show "Suits" is that the law firm hires ONLY graduates of Harvard law school. Not sure that would be legal in the real world, but still.

When researching potential colleges for my oldest son some twenty years ago, one thing that struck me was that Harvard supposedly had something like a 97-98% graduation rate. There is something about that statistic that feels very off. It just doesn't strike me as plausible that, even though everyone they accept, well almost everyone, is smart and already well educated and highly motivated and all that, but still, 98%? Only two percent don't finish, or at least not there? Maybe I just haven't a clue what kind of kids get accepted there.

I will say that neither of my very bright sons were Harvard material, certainly not on paper, and probably not in reality.

But back to my initial point. Perceived value. I've attended altogether six different public universities and community colleges. What I liked best about the community colleges was that the quality of education and instructor involvement was well above that of certain major public universities. But none of those schools was really a "name" school, and I'm sure that if I'd ever been applying for a job alongside of someone from a "name" school, we can all guess which person would get the interview or the job.

[Demovictory9]

20. regarding Harvards high completion rate, once admitted elite schools will get you through

failure would upset alumni parents

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

21. That is my thinking, exactly.

While the vast majority of them are more than capable, the collective GPA and high graduation rates just doesn't feel plausible. I dunno, maybe it's because all of my many college experiences have mostly been with students who, while many of them were quite good students, simply weren't among the academic or wealth elite. The words "real world" come to mind here.

I know someone whose oldest son, a Harvard student (Dad went there, mom went to Radcliffe), seriously smart. He was a TA for a freshman class of some sort when he was a junior. When I learned that my first thought was, I sure as hell wouldn't want some upper classman as the instructor for MY kid. It's bad enough a lot of classes at major universities are taught by grad students, and my terrible experience with such instructors is a large part of why I'm not crazy about a lot of public universities.

[lapfog_1]

18. apparently not wealthy enough

or willing to simply donate a new building... and let admissions do the silent quid pro quo.

That happens all the fucking time.

Trump at Wharton??? please. Tell me that Fred didn't pull strings to get that moron into a university.

[pnwmom]

24. It's the difference between a private university openly deciding to give special consideration

to an alum who donated a building versus someone who managed to slip in through the back door, by handing a half a million dollar tip to the doorman.

[Demovictory9]

19. 500k put in trust fund would have set those kids up for life

[pnwmom]

26. That's what's so crazy. And they could still have gotten a college degree somewhere,

and no one ever would have cared about the college's name after the first job.

[Demovictory9]

38. yep.They have all the advantages of being kids of rich parents-health, looks, connections, resources

finding a job would be no problem. no matter the school

[pnwmom]

39. Right? But some people seem to think it goes like this:

Guess who applied for the intern position? Lori Loughlin's daughter!

The actress? Wow. So where's she going? What college?

Whittier.

Oh well then, forget her. No one goes to Whittier!

[Demovictory9]

41. lol

[meadowlander]

48. It's not about setting the kid up for life.

It's about the parent being able to brag to their friends that their kid got into Harvard.

[Demovictory9]

59. good point

[moondust]

25. Way, way, way too much...

is just not enough.

[Flaleftist]

29. Is this what Trump's dad did? He is free to release his transcripts and SATS

to prove otherwise.

[Blue_true]

30. The parents' wealth already meant the kids had a leg up.

The kids could have gone to a decent U, did well on their own, then applied for Grad School at another university. Now their parents are criminals and the kids will face doubters all their lives.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. Because that pedigree will get the kids partnerships at firms pulling down millions.

Without that pedigree they are sunk. Relegated to a life of non-profits and, gasp, sub-secondary education careers. That’s what the trust-fund kids I know do. They teach kindergarten but still live in multimillion dollar homes.

[pnwmom]

33. But it's really not true.

When someone has an MBA or a law school degree, the employer doesn't care where the undergraduate degree came from.

And the admissions departments of the top MBA and law schools want to accept a diverse group of students -- and that means taking applicants from a wide variety of undergraduate colleges.

And the kindergarten teacher you mentioned didn't need a degree from Yale. Her wealthy parents could have paid for her to go to UC, and then bought her her multimillion dollar house. No need to subject themselves to the possibility of criminal prosecution!

And some people discover they benefit from being in an atmosphere that isn't a hothouse.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-how-to-survive-the-college-admissions-madness.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

Peter didn’t try for the Ivy League. That wasn’t the kind of student he’d been at New Trier High School, in an affluent Chicago suburb. Most of its graduating seniors go on to higher education, and most know, from where they stand among their peers, what sort of college they can hope to attend. A friend of Peter’s was ranked near the summit of their class; she set her sights on Yale — and ended up there. Peter was ranked in the top third, and aimed for the University of Michigan or maybe the special undergraduate business school at the University of Illinois.

Both rejected him.

He went to Indiana University instead. Right away he noticed a difference. At New Trier, a public school posh enough to pass for private, he’d always had a sense of himself as someone somewhat ordinary, at least in terms of his studies. At Indiana, though, the students in his freshman classes weren’t as showily gifted as the New Trier kids had been, and his self-image went through a transformation.

“I really felt like I was a competent person,” he told me last year, shortly after he’d turned 28. And he thrived. He got into an honors program for undergraduate business majors. He became vice president of a business fraternity on campus. He cobbled together the capital to start a tiny real estate enterprise that fixed up and rented small houses to fellow students.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

44. You are thinking like someone who works for a living.

I’m talking about people who don’t apply for jobs. I don’t know if the people in this scandal are even at that level.

Yes, the kindergarten teachers I’m talking about didn’t go to Yale and yes their parents bought their condos (well the company did - corporate housing nudge nudge wink wink). That’s my point.

Being gay has allowed me to rub elbows with some super wealthy trust fund kids. It’s kind of the great equalizer when you all end up at the same handful of bars and parties. When I see the amount of help from their parents these people get it makes me so angry when that subset of people squawk about having to pay taxes on their inheritance - because they’ve already taken advantage while their parents were alive. I’m talking Gulfstream jet picking you up to bring you home for holidays wealthy.

[pnwmom]

47. Yes-- I share your anger about their sense of entitlement.

I'm just saying the fancy name brand college wasn't necessary for them -- not for the super wealthy trust fund kids.

And for the families in this scandal, it obviously came at a huge cost. I can't understand how a rational person could think this was a good thing to do with a half a million or a million or more dollars. It was all probably driven by parental narcissism -- a sense that the child was reflecting on them, so had to be the BEST. And at the same time the parent was conveying to the child the sense that s/he wasn't good enough to succeed on their own.

[Locrian]

56. this

>> You are thinking like someone who works for a living.

Exactly correct. These are not the normal "working person" species who go to college to actually learn a "work" skill.
It's all about the networking, the pedigree - belonging to the "club".
And belonging to the club is a million dollar ticket.

You've seen it ("Gulfstream jet picking you up&quot - I don't think a lot of people **really* understand the vast wealth of the rich and how they act, what they own, the power, the attitude. It's stunning - morally, ethically, etc disgusting - but we as a country have some weird adoration of them still.

[stopbush]

32. I've lived in a lot of places, but I've never seen a state like CA

where the pedigree of the college/university from which you graduated is such an elitist competition.

Let’s be clear - earning a college degree in CA only means something if it is awarded by one of the big name elite schools: USC, Berkeley, CalTech, UCLA or Stanford. Outside of that, your degree is chopped liver.

Which explains why these celebrites and wealthy types were so obsessed about their kids getting into one of the elitist schools.

[pnwmom]

35. They could also go to community college and then to one of the name schools. n/t

[stopbush]

36. One would think so. But out here one needs to go straight into a 4-year program

at one of the elitist schools to be considered to be truly elite. Time spent at a cc is the equivalent of listing McDs on your resume as a career position.

[pnwmom]

37. I came from an east coast area like that. I think the snobs who think like that are idiots,

whether they're on the east coast, the west coast, or in between. I just don't understand how wealthy and successful parents would risk everything because of a particular college they wanted their child to go to.

[Texasgal]

34. With that type of money

the students could have all gone to a community college at full price!

[pnwmom]

40. They could have gone to community college, then finished at a four year college,

and then lived in a house their parents bought for them.

[crimycarny]

42. I feel bad for the kids

No, really. Nothing worse than having all roadblocks moved out of your way. What fun is there in having everything handed to you? If you've got everything, what is there to work for? Oh, I know, getting into an elite school that has a 4% acceptance rate. Ok..now you're in due to your parents paying for it...what next? It NEVER ENDS... The kids end up trying to fill an empty hole with alcohol, drugs, whatever.

This whole thing reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode where a gangster, "Rocky", dies and thinks he's gone to heaven. He is greeted by a man who says he was instructed to give Rocky everything he desires. Rocky goes into a casino and wins every single game, beautiful girls surround him and approve of anything he does or says, anything he desires he is given just by asking, any challenge he is presented with is rigged for him to win. After a month of this, he is going insane. He tells the person who greeted him after he died that he is tired of heaven and wants to go to "the other place". The greeter says "Heaven? Whatever gave you the idea you were in Heaven? This is the other place."

I don't get why these parents think the best way to prepare their kids for the obstacle course of life is to go out in front of them and remove all the obstacles!

[pnwmom]

43. I do, too. I feel sorry for all children of fear-driven narcissists.

This story belongs in a Lifetime movie.

All these kids have parents who feel deeply insecure about the children's abilities to cope with the challenges of the world. The kids have some external advantages, but they don't have the advantage of parents who really believe in them.

[Doreen]

45. Maybe some of those kids are just like their parents but I feel for

the ones who are not. How is this going to affect their future to get into any other college or if found out who they are to get a job? just because the parents are snobs does not mean they are.

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. #63 in a world ranking, which isn't bad. "Wake Forest" was the one that surprised me

I'd never heard of it (I'm British), and it's #387 in the QS ranking: https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/wake-forest-university/undergrad

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2019

(UT is well above the University of Southern California, too, at #115).

[janterry]

52. I get it. I grew up in this kind of world

Makes total sense to me. The pressure on the students and the parents is intense.

Everyone wants to know where you got accepted (other parents, folks at church, my father's business associates, it's the topic all summer at the country club).

I knew of parents who made very large contributions to elite colleges in order to ensure their child's acceptance.

[pnwmom]

58. I grew up in a college town, so i am familiar with that competitive atmosphere.

I still think it's idiotic and I'm glad we left before we had kids.

[FM123]

53. So many of these parents are "titans of industry" - their kids were going to be well off anyway...

They did not need the false security of an elite college degree. They could have gone to a perfectly fine state school and with all their inheritance, connections, opportunities etc still be set for life.

[vlyons]

54. It is the lack of ethical morality that gets to me

I'm a Buddhist, and ethical morality is the very foundation of Buddhist teaching. No lying, no stealing, no cheating, no envy, no greed, etc. To tarnish one's honor and integrity for what? For a mere appearance of high academic achievement? Logic alone should have told them that all of that deceit could only ever have resulted in problems and great suffering. And now those parents have ruined their lives with what will be felony convictions. A felony conviction is the gift that keeps on giving, following them around for the rest of their lives.

More tragically, their honor and rectitude has been tarnished in the eyes of their children. How sad is that?

I can only hope that this tragedy will serve as a teaching moment to parents, who have contemplated such shenanigans. It's so not worth it.

[dlk]

57. Most Americans Have No Idea About the Extreme Levels of Competition for Children

in the upper echelons. It’s the parents actively seeking ever higher levels of status. There is no end.