It looks like trump's government shutdown may have some culpability for the 737 max 8 crash.

[Augiedog]

The software fix for the nose down issue was delayed for 5 weeks because of the shutdown.

This from the Rachel Maddow show tonight. Good job pres....good job.

[Chin music]

1. So now people ARE dying.....

didn't guiliani say..."Hey..nobodies died."??

[2naSalit]

3. I think he did.

Notice how he's, thankfully, disappeared from our screens?

[Doreen]

16. Problem is he always shows back up just when he is needed to

take attention of of a current crappy issue. People just died and that is not crappy enough for him to show his ratty face. He wants to be around for living people who will suffer.

[2naSalit]

23. Good point...nt

[RockRaven]

2. Not to mention the apparent corruption of doing what is best for cronies' profits instead of

public safety. Why have all these other governments grounded these planes but the US FAA hasn't? Hmm?

[2naSalit]

4. Also the Sec of Transportation...

You now, McTurtle's wife, Elaine Chao.

[still_one]

5. Perhaps, but this is in the FAA and Boeing. They have a known issue and they both knew about it

for some time.

[uponit7771]

7. +1

[lostnfound]

18. Horrifying and NOT normal. Rachel framed issue correctly..FAA has been gold standard

FAA has been the gold standard in the world
So upsetting to see this
Yet another decline in American leadership

I suspect that having an experienced FAA leader, and one of the previous CEOs at Boeing, would have made it likely that the fix would have been implemented in January no matter what.

[Demovictory9]

6. kick

[Leith]

8. What prevented Boeing from looking into it?

This is not just a government or FAA thing. People have died because of a software glitch.

Somewhere there is a team of software engineers and testers who worked on this. Maybe because I used to be part of such a team (though we worked on accounting applications, not life-or-death matters), but I can't help but wonder what they have been thinking since the news came out of sudden nosedives and crashes that killed all on board.

[tinrobot]

10. They were, but whatever fix Boeing creates must meet FAA standards and approval.

The FAA dropped the ball during the shutdown, delaying progress on the fix.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

27. If you're upgrading the software of an Ethiopian-owned aircraft, why is the FAA involved?

Boeing can supply the upgrade to aircraft used outside the US without any need for the FAA to get involved, can't it?

I'm asking because I don't know the answer, not because I'm cleverly setting a trap.

Full disclosures: I am not an aeronautical engineer. I also cannot write code.

[haele]

39. International Aviation Standards Certifications and Standards.

If a U.S. aircraft company developing fixes - or any modification to hardware or software on an airframe or airframe system, they need to be approved by the FAA before they can test the fixes on a live, flying aircraft. Same rules for aircraft companies in other countries. Fixes on anything that affects the operation of an aircraft cannot be modeled and sent out like a Windows 10 code update. The fix must be certified and the certification is published by the FAA.

If anyone accepts a modification on an aircraft system before it's certified by an acknowledged authorizing agency, they're fools.

Haele

[tinrobot]

44. The exact same planes fly in the US and all over the world.

Boeing isn't just upgrading for Ethiopia. Any fixes they create will also be applied to US planes.

[lostnfound]

19. True, but Software changes, flight tests...require major FAA participation

FAA approves the fixes, the schedule, the implementation plan, the test plan

Not a lot of hours compared to what OEM invests. But sort of like a red light/green light.

[watoos]

9. Trump was actually telling the truth,

in his mumbo jumbo Tweet about not wanting Einstein to fly his plane. Sometimes engineers go too far with their bells and whistles. The software problem is that the plane is making a correction and automatically dropping the nose after take-off. The pilots can switch to manual and bypass the computer. Looks like a case of over-engineering.

Daughter bought a car that if it rains the wipers come on automatically. Her husband took it to an automatic car wash and the wipers came on and he didn't know where to shut them off. It tore off one of the wiper blades.

[sdfernando]

12. I actually have a car like that

But you still actually have to turn the wipers on for the feature to work.

[Sherman A1]

33. We got a new Nissan Rogue this past year

and the radio starts automatically with the ignition. Drives me absolutely nuts as I don't want extra noise when I am getting settled in to drive and back up. Nissan says this is a Feature and not a Defect. We have different opinions about that and had I realized it when I bought the damn thing I would have gotten something else.

[sdfernando]

37. I have a VW GTI and what I like about it

is that it remembers the state of things when you turn it off. For instance, on really cold mornings I'll turn on the heated seat and side mirror heaters...along with the radio. I often stop off for coffee, will leave everything alone and just turn off the car. When I return and turn on the ignition, its like I never turned it off. So if I turn off the radio before I shut off the car, it doen't come on automatically when I turn the car on again.

[Sgent]

17. Its not that simple

the airplane in question is inherently unstable in flight and tends to go nose up -- the fix to that is to use a fly by wire system which is used on modern airplanes.

The problem is that the 737 is an old, old design, and uses mechanical controls everywhere else, so Boeing bolted on this system (MCAS) to automatically nose down the airplane if certain conditions are met. They never bothered to put this in the manuals or tell any of the pilots about this system. Earlier 737's had a similar system that was not as critical, and even if activated would disengage by the pilot grabbing the stick and pulling -- on the new system you have to flip two switches.

The Lion air crash happened, and they told everyone about this new system, etc... but claimed that the Lion air crash was caused by poor maintenance (probably true somewhat) and training.

Ethiopia crashed, and they are generally known as a Tier 2 airline -- not necessarily American Airlines, Delta, British Airways, or Lufthansa, but just below that upper tier. Now everyone is freaking out.

[PoliticAverse]

21. The Max is different than the older 737's as the Max has different engines and this results...

in different stability of the resulting configuration.

From https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-737-max-receive-updated-control-software-2019-3

At the heart of the controversy surrounding the 737 Max is MCAS, the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System. To fit the Max's larger, more fuel-efficient engines, Boeing had to redesign the way it mounts engines on the 737. This change disrupted the plane's center of gravity and caused the Max to have a tendency to tip its nose upward during flight, increasing the likelihood of a stall. MCAS is designed to automatically counteract that tendency and point the nose of the plane downward.

[Tipperary]

22. He didn't know how to turn them off?

Lol, that made me laugh.

[donkeypoofed]

26. The way he worded it though made it sound like he wants dumber pilots

[AZ8theist]

38. Sorry, wrong.

If Doturds lips were moving, or tiny fingers twitching, he was lying.

No matter what was said. There's a lie in there somewhere.

[benld74]

11. CEO Boeing called tRump to hold off on the

Grounding
Sarah told all
Too early to ground

From corporation mouth
To our safety concerns

tRump has all in control

[Ilsa]

14. It's time to fly

Trump's Chao's, Sanders', and the Boeing CEO's kids only on that aircraft. See how they feel about that.

[mr_lebowski]

15. Whoa ... was that a haiku? (nt)

[Doodley]

13. Bit premature when there is no report on the cause.

[lostnfound]

25. Phrase we AREN'T hearing: "out of an abundance of caution"

Boeing and US airlines may be 100% technically correct, but sometimes you do stuff to maintain confidence in the system and public perception.

Now, Europe, China, and others have taken the lead away. Boeing’s inaction created a vacuum.

Two new planes on takeoff and several complaints from pilots was enough to justify “an abundance of caution”.

[Doodley]

43. I was talking about the title of the thread.

[malaise]

20. Link

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-admin-assurances-on-plane-s-safety-ring-hollow-abroad-1456981571906

[Paladin]

24. Great reporting by Rachel.

I hope there are a couple of massive class action suits in the works---one against Boeing, and another against trump.

[Turbineguy]

28. Trump can blame it on the Mexicans

for refusing to pay for his wall.

[zaj]

29. Sorry, but Boeing didn't shut down

The planes didn't stop flying.

I saw her segment, and it doesn't explain how the fix had to be stopped for 5 weeks.

[barbtries]

35. Boeing was working with FDA on it.

They were furloughed.

[zaj]

36. So Boeing and airlines stopped repairs to all...

... of their aircraft during the shutdown? Software changes are repairs. Updates are like swapping out parts. Does the FAA he save to approve all repairs like that?

[barbtries]

40. i don't think a software update

would be applied before it was tested and retested and it is my understanding that FAA had to sign off on it. According to Boeing, work stopped while the government was shut down. my impression is that the software was not in a ready state. i don't think it's been applied yet.

other than that, i don't know.

[Honeycombe8]

30. How so? The planes are made by Boeing. Not the govt. nt

[calimary]

31. All the crooked roads lead to trump.

[MicaelS]

32. Not this time.

The FAA does not control the west of the world's aviation. Boeing is the one to blame here. They could have published an immediate fix and directive. Instead they stalled and people died. Boeing should get sued bigly.

[Sherman A1]

34. I agree

hope they are sued into the dirt.

[Mopar151]

41. Wrong!!!

If the FAA has not approved the fix, it does not yet exist!

[James48]

42. The delay

Is because there has to be consensus between Boeing and the FAA over:

1. The scope of the problem
2. The root cause of the problem
3. The approach to fix the problem
4. The design of the software to address the problem
5. The actual production of a prototype fix software.
6. The verification of the software fix
7. Coordination and consensus of how the fix should be distributed.
8. Review and approval of publications associated with the fix
9. The actual distribution of the fix.
10. Verification that the fix resolved the problem, and does not cause any new problems.

At this moment, Boeing and the FAA are at step 4. The processes was delayed by about six weeks, because the furlough interrupted consensus on Steps 1,2 and 3.