General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy all the defeatism and handwringing over 2020?
Come on people.
We are going to have a great primary, our best and brightest will emerge, and we will have another blue wave.
WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER BLUE WAVE!
Do you hear me? Cut the crap it will do us no good.
manor321
(3,344 posts)The President has had very poor polling numbers the entire time.
Amazingly large numbers of people say they will never vote for him.
IMHO, we are likely to win the White House.
SallyHemmings
(1,822 posts)We have to take the Senate and get rid of him.
We have strong candidates. Lets go through the Primary and support the nominee.
We have a real problem that speaks every damn day. Worse, if he belches the media makes it breaking news.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)I also think there are russians and the gop using social media to actively try and divide the Democrats again this time, and use issues , comments, and suggestions pitting one Democrat against another so it lessons the voter turnout if their candidate doesn't win in the primaries , all while trump and the gop help it continue. When is a reporter going to ask trump what he's done to stop russian election attacks.
Cary
(11,746 posts)They can take their discord and discontent and shove it.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... hitting very hard this time too.
Red Don has outspent all of dem candidates on SM and there was the .1%
LakeArenal
(28,829 posts)But I see the difference in this election in
the fact that last time Repukes hated all their own candidates.
This time around Dems like or love all of ours.
brer cat
(24,581 posts)We should be jumping for joy and measuring for new drapes in the WH.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)We have some really, really good liberal Democrats spreading our values and our goals around the nation. United values and goals.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)A lot of democrats drank the kookaid and thought we were a shoo in and we were not! Yes the Russians helped them, but in truth we hurt ourselves, fighting after the primaries were over, some democrats took their toys and went home because their candidate didn't win and then many of our party believed what the polls told them and stayed home. In truth our candidate was the winner, she may have won the states that put him over the top with the help of the Russians and voter suppression that we did not fight.
I won't feel confident until the last vote is counted. I will work my tail off to get people to the polls and not get overconfident to the point of killing any chance we have to taking back the white house, keeping the house and making strides in the senate.
Cary
(11,746 posts)We have work to do. It isn't time for handwringing it's time to get to.work.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)ALL of us have to do it! It will take every single one of us. I am not hand wringing, I am being realistic about a situation that will be catastrophic if he gets elected again.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)an even higher percentage than what Clinton lost from Sanders in 2016, if I'm not mistaken.
yet, Obama won, and won handily, because he was able to control the media narrative most of the time. In 2016, Trump drove the narrative.
Amishman
(5,559 posts)And generally confident about the presidency, but a lingering doubt is if we beat ourselves up in primaries or make a centerpiece of something too controversial. The reparations talk, very aggressive gun control (Swalwell), or packing the SCOTUS all seem just ask likely to hurt as help in an election. Healthcare, fixing income inequality, and fighting corruption need to be our banners.
Wounded Bear
(58,676 posts)much work to be done, but many hands to do it.
Paladin
(28,267 posts)We can win in 2020, but we're going to have to prevail over a huge mass of stupid trump voters to do it.
Cary
(11,746 posts)We don't need to overcome anything. We just need to turn out and we crush them.
The minority has the heavy lift here, getting us to be stupid enough to allow them to impose their will on us.
It is not too much to ask people.to knock off the negativity. We need to generate enthusiasm. No excuses.
PatSeg
(47,547 posts)republican cheating and voter suppression, as well as interference from other countries like Russia, China, and Saudi Arabia, maybe even Israel. There are many forces determined to destroy democracy here and around the world. We have every right to be worried.
brooklynite
(94,657 posts)mcar
(42,356 posts)Most of whom are staying civil to each other. Lots of great ideas and passion for our causes.
marble falls
(57,136 posts)recently said ...
This may feel like a dark chapter but any story has its highs and lows but it continues. Yes, we are in a low but we have been lower. We have had tougher times, we have had more to fear. We have lived through slavery, the Holocaust and segregation.
We have always come out at the other end better and stronger. We are moving in a direction of diversity and inclusion. No-one ever said it would be easy. We are just in the throes of the uneasy path of change.
We have what it takes to win: good leaders, great candidates, good effective programs, the "vision thing", a clearly defined danger to focus on; the votes are out there - the only thing to defeat us is us.
Chin up and fight.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)marble falls
(57,136 posts)what they did.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Damn if we do or damned if we don't we might as well be damned right.
Cary
(11,746 posts)I have no use for such negativity.
I think alot of people are frustrated right now, they thought that when we took the House, instant changes would occur. Nothing occurs overnight, especially when you're facing the most dishonest corrupt President in modern history. The best way to create change is get out the vote, period!
Cary
(11,746 posts)I will not allow them to affect me. You shouldn't accept their crap either. Just say no!
sarabelle
(453 posts)There seems to be no remedies for us in the courts now that Trumpians control them all. Look how they are ignoring Congressional requests and subpoenas. Will any of them be sent to jail if this continues? Barr seems to be a Rasputin unleashed to do whatever evil he desires like he is some god of the judiciary.
watoos
(7,142 posts)Buzzfeed has filed a FOIA request to release the Mueller report and the judge presiding over the case has stated that he might need to read all of the Mueller report to make his decision.
There are cracks in hiding the Mueller report, it is going to come out before the election. What is coming out tomorrow is a coverup, Nadler can release his subpoena Friday for the full report. Liars have to worry about keeping their stories straight. Better times are coming.
PeeJ52
(1,588 posts)and the courts will say it's too late to fix it because it will interfere with the election. Georgia was just a test. Look at all the states where the Republicans hold both houses of their legislature. Now count up the electoral votes. We really need to be out in front of any irregularities in voter registrations in the states such as what Tennessee is doing in trying to prevent voter registration drives.
https://www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-state-politics-governors-2019.html
Im not concerned about the votes, I believe we would winbut theres a small problem with letting fascists run an election.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)CrispyQ
(36,487 posts)Like we didn't learn squat during the 2000 debacle & we're just now getting up to speed.
Cary
(11,746 posts)CrispyQ
(36,487 posts)If we'd been a true opposition party the past 40 years, instead of constantly drifting to the right as the GOP went batshit crazy, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Nay
(12,051 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)And too the anti-government schtick. If you think it's so easy then take your armchair quarterbacking skills and run for office.
I respect my Democratic leaders. They represent me. I have also held minor office and had to deal with all kinds of ingrates. That isn't any fun, let me tell you. I vowed to never be like that.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Liberals/Democrats/Progressives/Whatever passes for "the left" in America (and guess what, we don't have a "left" at all in America by global standards) have one very bad blind spot, a giant weak point that allows Republicans to do things like this with near impunity. What's worse is that Republicans are well-aware of this, and worse still, we're aware that they're aware, and we don't fix it.
We don't admit to ourselves as a matter of national strategy and party policy that yes, yes indeed these people really are as bad as we imagine, and probably worse, and we don't guard against any and all things they might do. We don't even admit there are examples of prior bad faith to prove this! We exist in a state of "honorable opponents" and "respectful disagreement", and that's an era that ended decades ago.
We don't even try to address what allows these kinds of things to occur in the first place (like last-minute closures of polling locations or the many many many many past instances of "printing errors" for election dates in predominantly minority voter areas), let alone try to hold accountable those who do such things illegally. It all just keeps happening because "it's legal" or "there's nothing we can do" or "we'll have to wait until we're in control to change the law".
There are options that don't involve courts, but that's playing dirty and we don't play dirty.
Fuck all of that attitude. Fuck it to death. Bury its corpse head-down in an unmarked grave and sow the surrounding ground with salt so it can't resurrect. There are effective responses. Use them.
For example, a judge saying that it's too late to anything about polling place closures because it would interfere with the election is not making a nonpartisan decision and a push should be made to remove them from the bench. The petition before the court is to address that very thing... unless the judge wants to attempt to claim that closing a polling location is not "interference", nosiree.
What we should do in such a case is not simply agree and say "aw shucks, oh well, guess there's nothing we can do". We should comb through their record on the bench once we know who will hear arguments in the case and look for any and all decisions with even a faint whiff of impropriety. If the judge makes noises that "it's too late", we should inflate the whiff into a stench-ridden scandal to force them to retire or be removed... or at least punish them in the court of public opinion.
Yes. I know that's dirty. It's underhanded, it's probably ethically wrong, if not immoral. Politics is amoral and politicians generally have no sense of ethics in politics, nor should they; politics is war because Republicans have waged it as such. Fighting a rearguard action won't win that war. Taking the fight to them by any means fair or foul at every point they're vulnerable might.
Basically, we never ever play hardball as the Republicans do. I haven't ever seen that from Democrats in all my life. It's not in the "progressive/liberal makeup" to be mean about it and use dirty tricks because "that's what Republicans would do" and "we have to be better than them" and "we can't stoop to their level" Nobody asks why we have to be better than them. Nobody asks if there's anything useful to learn from their tactics or their strategy. We just do. Because. Something something "deserve to win". This has been the case for all my life.
We need to get over that forty years ago. The biggest example I can think of that illustrates why and what the consequences of failing to do so might be occurred in the 1980s, when we folded like wet blankets after Reagan (may that senile sonofabitch be an eternally restless ghost) fired the air traffic controllers after they went on strike. Our response at that time should have been to organize a strike of the stewardesses (which we now know beyond doubt is the appropriate response and would have had staying power; they are not federal employees and Reagan's hands would have been completely tied). Their one demand could have been "hire them back and get your ass to the table to negotiate or no plane will fly" and it would have had to have worked.
What would America look like today if that had happened? We can't know, but the ATC strike and the following terminations were if nothing else a demonstration of Reagan's strength as an executive, and he damned well knew that if the strike were successful it would jeopardize his administration and his legacy. On the other hand, successfully terminating them would put a stake through the heart of unions coast-to-coast (something dear to the heart of Reagan and his.... minions).
We could have had a demonstration of why unions are powerful and why we need them. We could have strengthened unions at that time by demonstrating how different unions from different "crafts" (to use a USPS postal union term) can work together when appropriate. It could have sent a message to all unions coast to coast that they need to start fighting harder and coordinating with each other. We didn't, and I suppose that's forgivable. We were so demoralized at the time that it probably didn't even occur to anybody that the apparently-indestructible crystalline structure and power of Reagan and his 1980s Republicans was actually very fragile in any number of ways, and that history had given us a hammer.
Instead, we did nothing but lament as the Overton Window of Political Discourse steadily and incrementally shifted rightward. America failed to notice because that's how that thing works. From that time to this, we have not even tried to move it our way. The entire Obama administration kept that window from moving further at best, and whether that's actually the case at all is arguable.
I digress. It was a hammer we didn't swing, and as I said that's forgivable in context, but we didn't learn a thing from it. Being nice, playing above-board, and slinging no shit-infused mud will make us electoral losers. Refusing introspection and refusing to point the finger of responsibility at the mirror when it's appropriate will keep us electoral losers. Voters don't want "nice". Voters want strength, refusal to apologize, and certainty we are correct. They don't want compromise; that's been clear since before Trump was elected. Voters don't want milquetoast and voters don't want ambiguity. Voters want their beliefs about government and America to be validated and agreed with, whatever those beliefs may be at the time and however those beliefs may shift in the wind, because we live in an era where facts are arguable as opinions and as easily dismissed.
Trump saw that and capitalized upon it and won the election. Whether we've learned anything at all is yet to be seen, but I don't know if we have or not, and that is concerning because it should be obvious.
Cary
(11,746 posts)The fascists have a narrative too. I have no interest in narratives; I care about the here and now and reality. The here and the now, and reality, involves forming coalitions with people who share most of my values and rational policy concerns.
Most of us don't care about narratives.
I study martial arts. If I were to get into a real fight my practice and discipline mean little. A real.fight last 17 seconds. There is no such thing as a fair fight and it ain't like the movies. Anyone can defeat anyone else at any given time.
Unindicted Co-Conspirator won because of several things aligning in his favor at once. He got lucky. We got unlucky but we also had some radical leftists with a narrative instead of reality and practicality. They could have chosen to put Hillary over the top but instead the radical left chose their narrative.
That was a bad choice. Narratives are a bad choice and we are paying a huge price for that excess.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)appalachiablue
(41,159 posts)Butterflylady
(3,546 posts)I don't understand it either. There are so many positives for our taking back the Oval office that even Chris Wallace of faux news has commented on the morons numbers are to low. I just know that 2020 will turn out huge number of voters for whom ever we nominate. Stay positive and focused.
Cary
(11,746 posts)It is so simple.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,018 posts)vote hacking still leaves PLENTY to wring our hands about.
watoos
(7,142 posts)1. Republicans purge voting rolls, commit election fraud, rig voting machines.
2. 2018 showed that with all of the election fraud that Republicans commit, when we turn out we overcome all of that and win in big numbers.
PeeJ52
(1,588 posts)and his shenanigans. Kemp pulled every voter suppression tactic in the book and squeaked by. We have to be alert to these states where there is a trifecta of the GOP in state government.
I think Trump is going to be too toxic to win next year. I think his primary challenger will do better than expected. The tide is turning against him harder. With the Mueller report dirt at any level plus his taxes revealed, plus whatever investigations come to light this year let along next. It will give the Repubs a reason to turn to the challenger.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)IrishEyes
(3,275 posts)We will fight to win the senate
We will fight to win a greater congressional majority
We will fight like hell to win the presidential election
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,020 posts)angrychair
(8,727 posts)More and more each day there is evidence that trump and republicans have no intention of going quietly. Especially trump.
Trump is already an autocrat in every way but name only. A divided Congress with a Republican-controlled Senate that rubber stamps every word from trump's mouth and a media empire (Fox) that spans the globe, shilling for trump 24 hrs a day, seven days a week.
The DOJ just gave him the green light to take in all the dark foreign money he wants.
His administration is completely ignoring laws at this point and Congress is doing little to nothing.
The reason I know trump intends to go no where is Republicans in Congress are activity supporting his efforts to ignore the law. They are willingly and enthusiastically increasing the power of the executive branch .
Why would they set precedence like that knowing the amount of political power they are ceding to the executive branch, markedly diminishing the power of the legislative branch, unless they knew that trump isnt going anywhere? The answer is they would not.
Brawndo
(535 posts)Their actions show that they are increasing the power of the Executive branch because they never intend to give up the Executive branch. We need to GOTV and beat them in 2020 but also have a plan B for when repugs completely ignore the will of the voters and refuse to let go of power.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,154 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:20 AM - Edit history (1)
out there and I don't know what these people are expecting from the vast majority of us here on DU to say to them. When they post such defeatism and such, they are acting like the doomsayers and such who come out of the woodwork to announce dire happenings and such, like sleazy newspapers like the national enquirer and the like post all of the time (the End of the World is coming, blah, blah, blah). Most of us, having a decent and educated mind (that's most of us) would ignore such ridiculous stories and live on in our lives, and continue on with the normal goings and comings that a healthy life entails.
For those who still chose to post such 'doom and gloom' posts or articles. Think long and hard and perhaps wait several days before you post. Perhaps your fears are overblown and will be self-evident to you if you just wait a couple of days before posting...I find that to be the case in a lot of situations, and it's like counting to 10 before you say or do anything. More than likely, someone in DU land has more information on the situation that you were going to post a doom and gloom post on, and viola!, it's not the doom and gloom you originally thought it to be.
I for one, have supreme confidence in 2020. I am excited. I am thrilled to be a part of this cycle again. History (and numbers) is on our side. I read long ago (20 years plus) that History has a habit of when things swing too far to one side (rump, fellow cronies, etc.), the electorate has stepped up and swung us back the other way (like November 2018 did, democrats retake the House of Reps).
We all of course know the numbers. We're everywhere. Sure we have gerrymandered districts and the like, but like all things, a significant portion of our population moves every year or so (jobs, family, etc.) so these gerrymandered borders is like trying to capture a precise moment in time where the numbers favor one side in particular. I expect that we'll continue to see surprises here when the 2020 elections are here finally and the votes are finally in. In 2008, it was too early to see the true impact of the real estate and financial market collapse, and it literally took all of Obama's 2 terms to deal with this.
I personally think we're going to see another wave of wipeouts occur in the Congress, for we are still not 100% over the stock market collapse or real estate market collapse yet in quite a few areas. And with the repubs passing the 2017 Tax Cut and Jobs bill in 2017, when 83% of the benefits are going to republican donors / people who did not need these tax cuts, they nailed the lid shut to win anything else in the future.
Thus, w/ no standing economic-wise nor having the numbers to support them, the republicans will harp on so called social issues and hype them constantly. Beware.
Cary
(11,746 posts)What can say with certainty is it's much easier to sell a positive message.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)We are in full panic mode. No one wants to share that small glowing flame of hope we are nursing in our hearts for fear of someone trying to brutally extinguish it.
We are summoning up the strength to create a new and bigger blue wave. A tsunami!
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)Needed that.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Spread the good word, we all need it.
BannonsLiver
(16,411 posts)Will leave it at that.
Cary
(11,746 posts)I have had my buzz killed. It is a major disappointment but then my buzz, as nice as it was, was just not reality. The killers are real.
So it goes. They don't have sufficient numbers to be much more than obnoxious.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Boomerproud
(7,961 posts)Don't listen to me, though. I'm just a negative handwringer who hasn't witnessed or been affected by history since 2000.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Hint: It had nothing whatsoever to do with the past.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)The issues we face are grave, the stakes are extremely high, and 2016 was a historic fiasco.
Nobody wants a repeat of 2016. 2020 looks better, but the Senate roadmap is not a gimme, gotta keep the House, and we're facing an incumbent President Trump.
There's plenty of reason for resolve and hard work and no reason for overconfidence.
Cary
(11,746 posts)What's past is prologue.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)I get that enthusiasm, and commitment, and determination is needed.
But there's also the fact that 35-40% of the population vehemently opposes the most basic policy options that Democrats favor - climate change action, Wall Street regulation, rejecting racism/misigyny/homophobia, or public policy solutions to health care issues. The task is not just to win, but to help lead public opinion towards a willingness to consider real change. And there's Trump and all the judicial appointments, regressive tax policy, and foreign interference he has set in motion.
We should win in 2020, but should have won in 2016 too. Hubris and faulty assumptions about public opinion was a factor in our loss. It's going to take a full court press to turn it all around, and there are no guarantees. So my enthusiasm for change is high and I am already working with neighbors on how to win in 2020. But we better give it all we got, and more.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Think about it a little. I'm sure you will get it if you wish.
If Shakespeare can't convince you then you are for sure beyond my meager skill set.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)If the assholes end up ruling the day, we will end up with an asshole country. If the good people end up ruling the day, then we will end up with a good country.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Now there's a natural recoil, a realization that all the hopes and adjustments were overblown. The emotional types are going to use that toward pessimism. I prefer big picture focus so nothing surprised me and nothing has changed. Once the White House changes hands it is likely going to be for 8 years. Republicans were ripping me on sports forums for making that point from 2008 through November 2012. Now the point obviously isn't appreciated here. Big deal. My stuff will prove correct far more often than not because I don't get distracted or fooled by day to day crap. We can defeat Trump but we'll need the ideal nominee, and imploding help from Trump and the economy. If we screw up similar to nominating Andrew Gillum here in Florida last year, then we allow Trump to escape again and further destroy the country and planet.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Literally. This kind of negative narrative makes people depressed. It would run me off if I didn't know better.
Fortunately the vast majority of us aren't affected. You don't have a choice as to the present reality, but you do have a choice as to how you frame it and the way you frame the present very much affects the future. Such negativity is a poor choice.
Peace to you.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)the "doom and gloom" crowd, along with the influx of of trolls, have been busy trying to stir things up, divide the board, and put down our Democratic leaders.
Hell, I thought the primary boards were getting hit hard by them, but now it looks like the GD board is being taken over. Seems like negative posts get more attention that positive posts, and there sure are a lot of negative posts the last few days.
I agree with you we have some great candidates and we should be supporting them, and letting our reps in the House do their job. Nancy is actually really good at what she does.
Cary
(11,746 posts)But some get mad at me for being positive. Apparently not participating in a pity party offends some.
<shrug>
George II
(67,782 posts)....we're seeing the "nattering nabobs of negativity"!
Cary
(11,746 posts)1. How many sit at home and don't vote because they hear anti-Democratic or "both sides do it" bullshit?
2. Why is this a Republican tactic, if it doesn't work that way?
3. Who are people who claim to be Democrats and who sow discord and discontent?
4..WTF?
sheshe2
(83,833 posts)We just had a huge diverse blue wave. One of the best things that has happened to Democrats since Obama was elected twice.
I am looking for another blue wave happening in 2020.
Vote Democratic.