If Trump is impeached and convicted he is almost certain not to ever face prison for his crimes.

[pnwmom]

President Pence will pardon him, just like President Ford pardoned Nixon.

However, if the Trump administration has to spend the next year and a half fighting hearings (hearings preliminary to an impeachment or even impeachment hearings), and he loses in 2020 to a Democrat -- that Democrat would be much less likely to pardon him for his crimes.

So that is one consideration. Should former President Trump, pardoned by President Pence, be allowed to slink back to his business empire, and start up a new TV network (or whatever)?

What's the best way to hold him accountable and keep anyone from following his example in the future?

[dawg day]

1. And when Ford pardoned Nixon--

it was the end of Ford's political fortunes.

"President Pence" (gag) would face the same fate, and from what I know of the guy, he's way too ambitious for that.

[pnwmom]

3. Pence might not face the same fate, because this isn't the same R party. n/t

[uponit7771]

31. Yeah ... Yes it is

[pnwmom]

33. Back in the Nixon era, there were liberal Republicans and conservative Dixiecrats

like George Wallace -- and centrists in both parties.

Since then the parties are much more skewed along conservative vs. liberal lines.

[unblock]

7. it's hard to pin ford's loss in '76 entirely on this.

it was certainly a factor, but inflation was also an issue, as was the doubling of oil prices.

ford's inept solution was to distribute buttons that said:

whip
inflation
now

his "win" buttons did not go over well.

plus he had zero charisma, and snl making fun of him for being a klutz didn't help either.

[RainCaster]

16. We are still paying for that mistake today

For the GOP knows that treason is a minor offense that can be pardoned. Corruption is in the eye of the beholder, but it will be ignored by Lady Justice.

[Delmette2.0]

28. Don't forget two things.

1. Manafort made disrupting elections his career.

2. Manafort maneuvered Trump into selecting Pence for VP.

Dems just need to make this their mission

[Eyeball_Kid]

2. State indictments.... n/t

[kysrsoze]

19. Bingo. They've got SO MUCH on his stupid ass.

[grantcart]

34. +1

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Pence can't pardon him for state crimes, and the Manhattan DA's office already

has their proctoscope shined up and ready to go.

[Celerity]

36. here it comes

[RockRaven]

5. Mueller's report actually mentions prosecution for obstruction once out of office

so defeating Trump in 2020 is still our best bet. If he loses, I could see Trump trying to get Pence to agree to a pardon in exchange for resigning a few days or weeks early, giving Pence the chance to achieve the nearly impossible, every boy's dream, becoming POTUS.

[uponit7771]

32. Why do you trust Red Don won't accept help from Russia and win .... Again

[ecstatic]

6. The right thing needs to be done regardless of imagined outcomes.

I consider an impeachment and conviction a victory. If pence pardons him, he automatically loses in 2020.

Yes, I'd love to see dump behind bars, but my 1st priority is removing him from the White House. Period.

[UniteFightBack]

8. And how does impeaching him reach your stated 1st priority? In what world does he get convicted? nt

[radical noodle]

15. Impeaching him won't remove him from the White House

Republicans will never convict him.

[manor321]

9. Who says Trump won't try to pardon himself?

Impeachment proceedings are the ONLY correct choice. He's dangerous.

[gopiscrap]

10. either way he will never go to prison

It won't happen to an ex president,..... can you imagine the warden of that prison, he doesn't want the headaches and cost of having to guard him. Suppose trump was killed in prison? That warden would have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life because of stupid trump humpers out for revenge

[napi21]

11. On federal charges, I agree with you. However, the charges he's most likely to be convicted of,

those referred to the So. Dist. of NY, Pence CAN'T pardon him. They are State charges and the Feds have NO PARDON POWER. The Governor could pardon him, BUT, the Governor of NY doesn't feel any kindness toward the Orangeman. I believe hes WILL see jail time, unlesse he croaks before the trials can be completed.

[moonscape]

23. SDNY is federal. n/t

[napi21]

24. No it's not. SDNY is The Southern District of New York. That's NY State. Lots of

news articles point out that ...

Presidential pardons do not reach state prosecution. A pardon can wipe away or preempt a federal criminal conviction (or set of convictions), but state authorities, not the president, have the power to pardon state offenses. For this reason, the fact that the targets in the special counsel and Cohen investigations are facing allegations that could lead to state prosecutions means that they may still face criminal liability even if they receive a presidential pardon.
https://www.citizensforethics.org/pardonpower/

[moonscape]

25. I realize that NY city and state crimes cannot

be pardoned, was only pointing out that SDNY is Federal. Pence could pardon him or Barr could interfere ..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_Southern_District_of_New_York

[kairos12]

39. SDNY is a Federal Court

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_Southern_District_of_New_York

snip:
The United States District Court for the Southern District of New York (in case citations, S.D.N.Y.), known informally as The Mother Court,[1] is a federal district court.

[at140]

29. Was Preet Bharara head of SDNY?

Preet was fired by DOJ.

[still_one]

12. Sure, but more importantly it needs to be made clear that obstruction of justice is an impeachble

offense, a President isn't above the law, and it will put people on the record where they stand on this

[GulfCoast66]

13. Since he will never be convicted we will never know.

But if we keep our eye on the Winning in 2020 ball he may well serve time.

[smirkymonkey]

14. Whatever happens to Trump, there is only one thing that consoles me.

He is mortal. He will die someday. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

[radical noodle]

17. This...

Tomorrow would be great.

[marble falls]

18. The answer is: don't impeach. Vote the bastard and Pence out: kick them to the curb and then go ...

that waste of manflesh in criminal courts an Jan 21, 2021.

[ooky]

20. He is such a coward he will not only pardon himself, but I believe

he will attempt to leave the country and escape to Russia rather than allow the state of New York to prosecute him for crimes he has committed there.

[Ferryboat]

21. Its enough to know trump will be a punch line.

Hates to be laughed at. Going down in history as a laughingstock. Or a demigod. Time will tell.

[struggle4progress]

22. "I'm staying with my good friends at the Sheremetyevo Airport!"

[Siwsan]

26. Think complete financial ruin. He fears that more than he fears impeachment

The lawsuits and defending himself against state crime charges will wipe him out, financially.

[Kurt V.]

27. no way he pardons him. imo

[GulfCoast66]

30. Since the Senate will never convict

All this pardon talk is really just for entertainment value.

[Celerity]

37. you cannot pardon a Senatorial conviction and removal, it is not a criminal court

And this OP is simply wrong a priori, because Pence cannot pardon state crimes, only federal ones

[GulfCoast66]

38. Correct, of course.

But my point is the Senate will not convict. And of course if they did it would not be a criminal conviction.

Impeachment or not, if Trump loses in 20, and fears Federal prosecution he has few options. A self pardon is dicey. He could resign between the election and the new administration and have Pence pardon him. From a strictly political standpoint this would be the Democratic grand slam. He would take the republicans down with him. Which is why I think they would hang him out to dry. State charges are off the pardon table.

But all this speculation does not really matter. In 2020 a Democratic candidate is going to run against Trump.

[Hekate]

35. I know that, so I'd very much like to see the Mad King's financial empire in ruins...

...and his worthless spawn forced to look for honest work and lawyers they will have to go into hock to afford.