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MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:43 PM Apr 2019

The Standard of Living at College Is Very Different from My College Days.

That is playing a role in student debt, I'm sure, along with inflation and enormous rises in tuition rates.

I remember sharing an old run-down house with 11 other people in my second pass through college. It didn't cost each of us very much at all. It wasn't a nice place, really, and the furniture in it mostly came from curbs nearby, but it sufficed. We didn't eat well, either, at all. I biked to campus, which was about 3 miles away, and didn't even think of owning a car.

That saved a lot of money. Books? I either bought used books or used the texts at the library. I assume there are still used books.

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The Standard of Living at College Is Very Different from My College Days. (Original Post) MineralMan Apr 2019 OP
actually used books are less common dsc Apr 2019 #1
how much did u spend on cellphones, tablets, laptops, internet connections and msongs Apr 2019 #2
Not a penny. None of those things existed at the time. MineralMan Apr 2019 #11
If you posted this in the lounge essme Apr 2019 #18
If I give them away, it will be locally. MineralMan Apr 2019 #23
Then find a local Title One school essme Apr 2019 #107
Computers with older operating systems are near useless for today's students... Progressive Law Apr 2019 #50
I did my computing at the College of Engineering computer facility. Blue_true Apr 2019 #56
Same here, early nineties. onlyadream Apr 2019 #81
It does seem simpler on initial view. Blue_true Apr 2019 #87
Agreed. onlyadream Apr 2019 #93
Black coffee. PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2019 #78
students still eat poor DonCoquixote Apr 2019 #26
I actually bought a used mattress from the Salvation Army and used milk crates as the box springs StarfishSaver Apr 2019 #3
I was trying to think when I bought my first new mattress. MineralMan Apr 2019 #15
I bought my first new mattress from KMart in my twenties. Blue_true Apr 2019 #57
You gotta mattress?? Chin music Apr 2019 #82
I bet you biked uphill both ways. ret5hd Apr 2019 #4
Uphill to campus. Downhill back. MineralMan Apr 2019 #12
We had to draw on our own tattoos. dameatball Apr 2019 #5
Shit. I had to make my own latte. Autumn Apr 2019 #109
college kids still share crappy houses, eat crappy food, and bike to school EleanorR Apr 2019 #6
I don't know about houses but modern dorm rooms are not "crappy". former9thward Apr 2019 #19
That very much depends upon the school EleanorR Apr 2019 #25
The area that I lived in near the university that I graduated from Blue_true Apr 2019 #60
We have some dorms here at KU that are almost like 5-star hotels! nt tblue37 Apr 2019 #68
I teach at the community college, so I get my books for free ProudLib72 Apr 2019 #7
I always went for the used text books mindem Apr 2019 #8
Used text books these days are almost useless, because the content is online. Progressive Law Apr 2019 #49
You don't think there are students doing that? eShirl Apr 2019 #9
Of course there are. They're the smart ones. MineralMan Apr 2019 #13
Yet if student loans are all forgiven... MichMan Apr 2019 #33
You know, that's not really the issue. MineralMan Apr 2019 #35
Same with middle-aged and sole cilla4progress Apr 2019 #54
The dorms, unions, and other student amenities are getting crazy fancy. Gidney N Cloyd Apr 2019 #10
Yes, indeed. If you insist on living in them, it's very, very expensive. MineralMan Apr 2019 #14
My daughter's university has a two year xmas74 Apr 2019 #69
Most schools do that. It was the same in 1963 when I first MineralMan Apr 2019 #70
My college was four years on campus unless xmas74 Apr 2019 #74
That's a great way to save. MineralMan Apr 2019 #75
We have a D2 state uni a mile from home. xmas74 Apr 2019 #77
At both schools I went to Sgent Apr 2019 #104
i believe costs of education have increased faster than wages for unskilled jobs. Raven123 Apr 2019 #16
Yes, they certainly have. MineralMan Apr 2019 #24
True. But states have greatly reduced the per person amount allocated to education GulfCoast66 Apr 2019 #17
I remember living in an apartment my last year at Kent State Ohiogal Apr 2019 #20
Ah, yes. but we were happier then. Nitram Apr 2019 #21
You try to tell that to the young people of today... smirkymonkey Apr 2019 #106
Average tuition more than doubled in the past twenty years. meadowlander Apr 2019 #22
Tuition at arizona state has gone up by a lot more than that over the last 20 years Mosby Apr 2019 #27
They certainly are not spoiled. potone Apr 2019 #29
yeah Rambling Man Apr 2019 #46
Some people live in luxury and end up in huge debt because of it. Joe941 Apr 2019 #28
Kraft Mac and cheese... 19 cents. Turbineguy Apr 2019 #30
I went to public colleges in the mid 70's kimbutgar Apr 2019 #31
My college years were a little different, but in many ways similar to yours The Genealogist Apr 2019 #32
We sound like the generation who walked five miles uphill in a snowstorm 100+ years ago. hedda_foil Apr 2019 #34
That's not my point at all, actually. MineralMan Apr 2019 #37
Also, all the "amenities" colleges feel they have to offer cilla4progress Apr 2019 #55
Students still live in rundown apartments. But tuitions that might have run a few thousand pnwmom Apr 2019 #36
Yes, I know. And that's the problem, isn't it? MineralMan Apr 2019 #39
+1, uponit7771 Apr 2019 #51
Universities are competing for students get the red out Apr 2019 #38
Oh, there are still students living in crummy housing. Lots and lots of them. MineralMan Apr 2019 #40
The states have forsaken get the red out Apr 2019 #45
What is driving the price of tuition? Blue_true Apr 2019 #88
There are quite a few homeless college students. Lars39 Apr 2019 #41
Indeed there are. MineralMan Apr 2019 #42
And there's me snowybirdie Apr 2019 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author Oneironaut Apr 2019 #44
I'm in my 40s and still live like I'm a broke 18-22 year old madville Apr 2019 #47
Except broke 18 yr. olds don't own houses outright. nt pnwmom Apr 2019 #58
Of course not but madville Apr 2019 #61
Text book Publishers have destroyed the USED book market by requiring online codes. Progressive Law Apr 2019 #48
During my last two years I lived in a boarding house in sonething called the "student ghetto" near Blue_true Apr 2019 #52
Look at this textbook required for most college level Spanish courses. $200+ Progressive Law Apr 2019 #53
That is highway robbery. There is no reason for that. Blue_true Apr 2019 #89
At many Universities you are required to live on campus for, at least, AJT Apr 2019 #59
At this point in my life, I am intimately familiar with the situation of RHMerriman Apr 2019 #62
Lets not forget Tink41 Apr 2019 #63
You definitely sound like a privileged Boomer.... Humanist_Activist Apr 2019 #64
MM is older than I am. But I am a younger Boomer. Blue_true Apr 2019 #90
One thing I've noticed... BluesRunTheGame Apr 2019 #65
You are seeing what I see in the city where I went to college. Blue_true Apr 2019 #92
Your college days were a little different than mine, perhaps, but ... moriah Apr 2019 #66
Worst thing about textbooks is they've got you coming & going if they come with a CD... Hekate Apr 2019 #67
Yes. The whole college environment has changed. MineralMan Apr 2019 #72
I think what people don't get about the cost of college is the lack of that tax money. When you & I Hekate Apr 2019 #102
I was surprised to read that well into the 20th century, only about 9% Blue_true Apr 2019 #94
Right. See my reply to MinMan above regarding tax support for public education... Hekate Apr 2019 #103
What I learned from working at a university. llmart Apr 2019 #71
On my second pass through college, MineralMan Apr 2019 #73
A saxophone in the dumpster? llmart Apr 2019 #79
That's where my college boyfriend and I got all our furniture happybird Apr 2019 #85
It probably wouldn't fit in his Volkswagen Beetle. MineralMan Apr 2019 #108
MineralMan, I have heard many stories of what PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2019 #84
Yep. The college town in which I live IndyOp Apr 2019 #76
Two of my kids live(d) at dorms of universities, one was $60K/yr other $30K/yr. The dorms were dank. TheBlackAdder Apr 2019 #80
I'm only a couple of years younger than MineralMan, PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2019 #83
I think undergrad and professional schools should be free or close to it. Blue_true Apr 2019 #95
Perhaps. PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2019 #96
If rural areas had healthcare for all, then doctors would not have to worry Blue_true Apr 2019 #97
Excellent point. PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2019 #100
You laid out some very sage observations. Blue_true Apr 2019 #101
Actually, there's a huge class divide here caraher Apr 2019 #86
And then there was Mitt and Ann who had to sell stock... 3catwoman3 Apr 2019 #91
And then there was me. Blue_true Apr 2019 #98
I just tossed my socks tirebiter Apr 2019 #99
The biggest change isn't the standard of living of most students. It's the sheer numbers pnwmom Apr 2019 #105
YYEEEPP Cosmocat Apr 2019 #110

msongs

(67,401 posts)
2. how much did u spend on cellphones, tablets, laptops, internet connections and
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:46 PM
Apr 2019

most of all coffee caramel cream lattes?

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
11. Not a penny. None of those things existed at the time.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:59 PM
Apr 2019

I owned a typewriter, because I found one that worked in a trash can. I took my coffee black, out of the pot in the kitchen, and still do.

Today, you need access to computers, but I know of no colleges that do not have big computer labs with free access for students. It's not the best way to go, but it's available. Cell phones, I don't know. They're pretty cheap if you aren't streaming movies or something.

Really, you can pick up a working PC or even a laptop for almost nothing on any weekend at garage sales. Hell, I've got half a dozen of them sitting around that nobody wants. I'd be happy to give them to anyone who asked for them, since I'd have to pay to get rid of them, otherwise. I have three desktop machines, a Mac Mini, a couple of Windows 7 laptops, a couple of Chromebooks. All are free for the taking, but I can't find any takers, to tell you the truth.

I don't have any caramel soy lattes lying around, though.

essme

(1,207 posts)
18. If you posted this in the lounge
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:25 PM
Apr 2019

I would bet that there are plenty of DUers that would love to have them. I would take the chromebooks off your hands- I work in a very poor school, and the students would love them.

Let me know if you are serious, and if the chromes are in good shape, I'll pay for the shipping.

essme

(1,207 posts)
107. Then find a local Title One school
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 08:01 AM
Apr 2019

and take them over.

There are numerous school children that would dearly love to have those chrome books.

 

Progressive Law

(617 posts)
50. Computers with older operating systems are near useless for today's students...
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:30 PM
Apr 2019

...because the textbook publishers have restricted their supplemental apps to run only on the latest OS.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
56. I did my computing at the College of Engineering computer facility.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:39 PM
Apr 2019

Electronic calculators were the in thing, there was no such thing as a fancy coffee shop and personal computers were still a few years away. The Internet existed, but was mostly used by governments and universities.

onlyadream

(2,166 posts)
81. Same here, early nineties.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:54 PM
Apr 2019

No cell phones, and personal PCs were just starting to be regular items for those that could afford them. Life seemed so much simpler.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
87. It does seem simpler on initial view.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:34 PM
Apr 2019

But, and I am going to get ripped for this, today offers more opportunity to people due to the Web. It used to be that a person had to "sell" an idea to a big company, today the same person has a number of Web alternatives for getting an idea to the buying public.

Overall, healthcare is better, people today survive illneses that were a death sentence 17 years ago. People's overall health is better, although I think that stress levels are higher today due to how fast things happen. One downside is there seem to be more allergies and system intolerances to things like wheat, nuts, ect. I don't know whether the larger number is due to better diagnostics or whether people in some ways are less resistant to stuff that has always been in food (if one ignores GMO food, which maybe unwise due to that potentially being the reason why food seem to harbor allergens, don't know, that's not an area where I have training nor have read much about).

onlyadream

(2,166 posts)
93. Agreed.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:04 PM
Apr 2019

It also seems that kids are so much smarter and mature these days.

Definitely true about the internet and all the possibilities.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
26. students still eat poor
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 03:16 PM
Apr 2019

like 29 cent Ramen. The tone seems to show malice towards the young, if that is the case, do not wonder why they do not voter your way,namely ebcause they are too busy working and goign to school to even breathe. Save the "back in my day" bit for the GOP so that we, young and old,can laugh at them.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
3. I actually bought a used mattress from the Salvation Army and used milk crates as the box springs
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:48 PM
Apr 2019

I remember searching through the pile to find the one with the fewest stains on it.

Ewwwww!

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
57. I bought my first new mattress from KMart in my twenties.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:42 PM
Apr 2019

I slept on the floor for about seven months, until I had saved up enough of my salary to buy furniture.

former9thward

(31,987 posts)
19. I don't know about houses but modern dorm rooms are not "crappy".
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:35 PM
Apr 2019

They are better than average apartments. All paid for by student loans....

EleanorR

(2,390 posts)
25. That very much depends upon the school
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 03:12 PM
Apr 2019

And a student's ability to find cheap, off-campus housing is dependent on the area of the country the school is in. I would imagine housing around DC or San Fransisco, even if shared, is very expensive.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
60. The area that I lived in near the university that I graduated from
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:54 PM
Apr 2019

has pretty expensive houses on it now, if I went back to my college days there is no way that I could live there now.

I believe that kids should have housing and three basic meals paid for and their tuition paid. They should buy books, but the price of books should be controlled.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
7. I teach at the community college, so I get my books for free
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:54 PM
Apr 2019

I did take a computer course a couple years ago. Had to purchase a thin book. It was nearly $200. I met one student who would go into the book store with his phone and take pictures of each chapter he had to read. I've had other students who weren't as daring who would search the internet for a used copy, and they would usually come up with one for a quarter of the price. The college bookstores make a killing!

When I was in college, my tuition was $1300 per semester. At the time (early 90s), I thought that seemed like a lot. My first semester of grad school cost $10,000. I told my advisor that I needed a TAship or I wouldn't be able to continue. The rest of my degree was free, but I had to teach.

mindem

(1,580 posts)
8. I always went for the used text books
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:54 PM
Apr 2019

but I always got the ones that were already highlighted by the previous owner. It was kind of a time saver.

 

Progressive Law

(617 posts)
49. Used text books these days are almost useless, because the content is online.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:26 PM
Apr 2019

And the textbook publishers restrict the online content by requiring one-time user codes that can only be obtained with new book purchases. Or you can by the code itself, which cost the same as the new book

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
13. Of course there are. They're the smart ones.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:02 PM
Apr 2019

The rest are taking out loans to live like they want. They're not the smart ones.

My point is that all of the things I mentioned are still available. And there are plenty of students still doing it that way to try to save money and keep their debt as low as possible. Others, however, don't like the idea, and the money is available to borrow, so they do.

Thanks for pointing that out. I hoped someone would.

MichMan

(11,915 posts)
33. Yet if student loans are all forgiven...
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:11 PM
Apr 2019

...those who tried to live thrifty and economically will feel like fools.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
35. You know, that's not really the issue.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:17 PM
Apr 2019

Bottom line is that there isn't going to be a sudden forgiveness of loans. There isn't any way to fund that, so it's not going to happen. It's a great idea but isn't going to be possible.

Nobody who lived thriftily and economically will need to feel like a fool. That has its own rewards.

But, promises of student loan forgiveness are not going to be kept by anyone making those promises. Such things would have to pass in Congress and be signed by a President. That's not going to happen, because it would bankrupt the country, frankly.

So, moving forward, which is all we can do, other measures will be needed. But retroactive measures are simply not going to happen. They can't on a simple financial basis.

Pay no attention to politicians who promise such things. They're lying to you.

cilla4progress

(24,728 posts)
54. Same with middle-aged and sole
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:37 PM
Apr 2019

old people, though.

Just saying..not exclusive to the young or students.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,834 posts)
10. The dorms, unions, and other student amenities are getting crazy fancy.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:58 PM
Apr 2019

Even community colleges are dumping big money into that sort of thing.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
14. Yes, indeed. If you insist on living in them, it's very, very expensive.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:03 PM
Apr 2019

The old alternatives still exist, though. You can still bunk up in groups, if you don't give a damn about living large.

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
69. My daughter's university has a two year
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:57 PM
Apr 2019

requirement. All freshmen and sophomores are required to live in the dorms unless they are non traditional or have parents living within a 30 mile radius and they live w them.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
70. Most schools do that. It was the same in 1963 when I first
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:14 PM
Apr 2019

went. Old fashioned dorms with no amenities, and a dining hall just like a high school cafeteria. Pay phones in the hall and community showers. That has certainly changed.

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
74. My college was four years on campus unless
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:30 PM
Apr 2019

you had a waiver. My daughter lives at home or else it would be around 12 grand a year on campus for room/board.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
75. That's a great way to save.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:34 PM
Apr 2019

Most kids want to get away from home, though. Even if there's a perfectly good public university where they live. I understand that desire, but it often makes little sense.

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
77. We have a D2 state uni a mile from home.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:40 PM
Apr 2019

It is the only school that offered her major in our state so she decided to stay.

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
104. At both schools I went to
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 04:12 AM
Apr 2019

in the early 90's the freshman / sophmore dorms were crappy. The upperclass dorms were much nicer, but by then you could get an apartment if wanted.

That said, apartments weren't easy because most lenders required parents to guarantee the lease, and if the parents couldn't pass a background check...

Raven123

(4,830 posts)
16. i believe costs of education have increased faster than wages for unskilled jobs.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:09 PM
Apr 2019

Therefore, strategies that involve working while attending school still require loans proportionately far greater than in the past.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
24. Yes, they certainly have.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:58 PM
Apr 2019

It's gotten much harder, even impossible to work your way through college, unless you have some great scholarships.

It was possible back when I was going to school, but working made it difficult to study enough, really. Still, many people did survive and work while going to school.

Lots of students still work while they're in school, but the pay doesn't go nearly as far and can't even scratch tuition costs.

In my day, state colleges were tuition-free. They still should be, in my opinion. That was one of our worst mistakes, removing funding from state schools.

Some people think I'm bragging about getting through school on the cheap. I'm not. I'm complaining that it's no longer possible. The best today's students can do is cut down on the amount they have to borrow or the amount it costs their parents. I think that's wrong, and that society should be paying college tuition at state colleges.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
17. True. But states have greatly reduced the per person amount allocated to education
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:20 PM
Apr 2019

Much of that difference is made up by the students.

I went to a large flagship university. The state paid over 30% of the operating cost. Last I checked it was 12% and declining.

My parents paid for my education although I had to work for spending money. My dad would give me a couple of hundred bucks for books each semester. In my sophomore year I discovered the library had copies of every book used on campus so I began doing all my studies in the library and had beer money for much of the semester! Yeah, I was kind of a shit.

Ohiogal

(31,987 posts)
20. I remember living in an apartment my last year at Kent State
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:39 PM
Apr 2019

Where the furniture was much as you described .... found at the curb somewhere .... or someone's parents' cast offs. I shared the place with 2 other girls so the rent was pretty cheap. We were lucky to have a teeny tiny black and white portable TV with a cracked screen. And even that I didn't care about, although one of my roommates was addicted to watching "Little House on the Prairie" every Monday night. This was in the mid '70s.

Two things I remember that were almost staples in my college days ....

An old electrical spool appropriated from a construction site somewhere for a coffee table, and a book shelf made from cinder blocks and wooden planks. Those two things you could find in just about any student apartment.

meadowlander

(4,394 posts)
22. Average tuition more than doubled in the past twenty years.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 02:45 PM
Apr 2019

While some students may be living in slightly nicer dorms, I suspect that it's the increase in tuition itself that's having a much bigger impact on student debt.

I lived in a really shitty apartment with six other people in a neighborhood where there was a serial rapist on the loose and where at least one of my roommates was constantly getting drunk, stumbling in at 3am and stealing my food. I ended up massively depressed and hated leaving my room.

All of that distracted quite a bit from my education - the actual reason I was there in the first place.

In most other countries, it's standard for even freshmen to have their own rooms, usually as part of a shared flat with four or five other students. That would have been a much better living arrangement for me and, I suspect, for a lot of other kids - like the one who killed himself a few years back because his roommate was gay-bashing him constantly.

So I don't think kids today are spoiled. I think kids twenty or thirty years ago were expected to conform to a situation that was unhealthy and untenable for many of them and which was detrimental to their education.

Mosby

(16,306 posts)
27. Tuition at arizona state has gone up by a lot more than that over the last 20 years
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 03:25 PM
Apr 2019

My last semester at asu was $1200 or so, this was 1995.

Now in state tuition is 10.5k per year, and that's cheap for pac 12 school.

potone

(1,701 posts)
29. They certainly are not spoiled.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 03:33 PM
Apr 2019

Ar least not at state universities (I teach at one). Tuition has skyrocketed, state support has declined radically, and there has been a vast increase in the number of administrative positions with high salaries. Meanwhile academic programs, particularly in the Humanities, are being cut. Student fees have risen steeply, partly to pay for the amenities that Mineral Man listed above, even if the students don’t want or use them. At my school, the football program is a drain on the finances, and this is not a football school. The priorities are out of whack.

Rambling Man

(249 posts)
46. yeah
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:59 PM
Apr 2019

but those kids are "living large" off of student loans buying Versace textbooks and used welfare cadillacs.

yes, the above is sarcasm.

kimbutgar

(21,137 posts)
31. I went to public colleges in the mid 70's
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 03:46 PM
Apr 2019

My fees for a semester were about $106 and my books cost about $150 and I was able to buy half of them used. When I transferred to the University it was about the same cost. My Dorm room cost $1500 for a year. I worked and paid for my own fees, books and spending money. My parents paid for the dorm. Fast forward to 2001 I went back to school to get a teaching $400. I took only two classes per semester. A kid ahead of me paid with a credit card $1800 books for 15 units. And I ended up with $20,000 in student loans (which took me 10 years to pay off)

I graduated with a BA in social science and business administration with no debt. It took me two years of substitute teaching to make that $20,000 in earnings. I just can’t imagine what kids go though now to get degrees. We need an educated work force to move this country in the right direction. Ignoring this and making stupid comments like Ernst did recently really makes me hate repukes even more. But I love that these young kids are like their great grandparents in the 1930’s.

The Genealogist

(4,723 posts)
32. My college years were a little different, but in many ways similar to yours
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 03:47 PM
Apr 2019

I lived in about the cheapest dorm a couple of years, then shared a broken-down old house with two guys one year, and then had a cheap apartment one year. Nearly all the furniture I had were hand-me-downs or other people's discards. I was 22 before I had a car, and I inherited it from my grandfather. I walked to campus even after I got that car, as I never lived more than three blocks away from it. I bought used books each year, whenever possible, and the library was a second home. Many good times, many rotten times, but here I am.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
37. That's not my point at all, actually.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:22 PM
Apr 2019

I was describing something that was possible then, but is not possible now. Those days, and they were great days, are long gone. Our expectations are higher and our institutions are encouraging those expectations. So, costs have risen dramatically, and subsidies for public higher education are no longer in play, like they were when we were in school. It's not that people now are not doing enough. It's that we fucked up our education system and no longer support it like we once did.

How I got through school isn't possible today. And that's the problem. I'm not waxing nostalgic about the good old days. I wish today's students had the opportunity to get through school in similar ways, but they do not. And that's the problem.

cilla4progress

(24,728 posts)
55. Also, all the "amenities" colleges feel they have to offer
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:39 PM
Apr 2019

to compete for students. Vicious cycle I guess.

We are just a consumerist society!

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
36. Students still live in rundown apartments. But tuitions that might have run a few thousand
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:22 PM
Apr 2019

in your day could be 50K (per year) today.

Tuition rates are going up much, much faster than the rate of inflation.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
39. Yes, I know. And that's the problem, isn't it?
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:26 PM
Apr 2019

Public colleges and universities used to be subsidized by taxpayers. That is no longer the case. That's the problem that makes it impossible for today's students to get through school on a shoestring like some of us did long ago. It should not be impossible. In fact, it should be an available option for everyone who wants or needs it.

The real solution can only be to return to subsidizing our public colleges and universities through taxation. There is no other option that will work. Costs will continue to go up. But a young person should be able to get an education without going into a lifetime of debt. As a society we owe them that chance.

That's my point. It's not that we did something today's students wouldn't do. The reality is that doing that is impossible for today's students. It shouldn't be.

get the red out

(13,462 posts)
38. Universities are competing for students
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:26 PM
Apr 2019

Not a lot of students, or their parents, would accept the ancient, hot until October, had roaches that the Entomology department should have produced research on, freshman women's dorm that I lived in in 1982.

My alma mater has really upgraded the dorms on campus, and they cost plenty to live there, but before they did there were slum lord houses surrounding campus that were making a killing cramming students into old houses which often didn't meet building codes and were dangerous. The new dorms are set up to be safer as well. We don't live in the same world as in 1982, it is really hard to compare the world my niece will be entering in a couple of years to the one my sister and I entered adulthood in. We need to look at the system, parents, and students as they are today and look to make it easier for safe, nice student living areas to be accessed.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
40. Oh, there are still students living in crummy housing. Lots and lots of them.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:31 PM
Apr 2019

The problem is that other costs force them into huge debt. Those other costs at public universities and colleges uses to be subsidized by taxpayers. That's what we need to return to. Comfy dorms are really nice. I went through school in the late 60s and early 70s. The dorms sucked, but were safe. No AC. No nothing. Two students to a tiny room. But, our tuition was subsidized by the taxpayers. If you couldn't afford the dorms and the dining hall, you could scrape by in substandard housing, just like I did. Today, it doesn't matter. You can't afford the tuition any longer, so you have to borrow for that.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
88. What is driving the price of tuition?
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:42 PM
Apr 2019

I have no kids and most of my nieces and nephews went to college on athletic scholarships. So I have a poor feel why tuition has skyrocketed. My professors did not seem to get paid a ton and usually lived simply (biked to work, did side consulting jobs, ect).

snowybirdie

(5,225 posts)
43. And there's me
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 04:52 PM
Apr 2019

who did classes in the a.m. and nights. Came home to care for five kids and did the housework and helped hubby start his new business on weekends! It can be done with the right motivation and attitude.

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

madville

(7,408 posts)
47. I'm in my 40s and still live like I'm a broke 18-22 year old
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:14 PM
Apr 2019

It's just my nature and I find it enjoyable and very low-stress, being debt free and owning a house outright are the main factors in that equation. I've never paid for a piece of furniture and love repairing/repurposing other peoples' junk also. I just repaired the latch on my electrical breaker panel door with a piece from an old pen and some super glue lol.

My son had no interest in a traditional college education. Instead he got an associates degree in Industrial Electric Technology for around $6,000-7,000 total for 4 semesters of tuition. He also took mostly night classes and got a day job making $12 an hour as a electrician helper for a residential company.

He had several job offers when he graduated but sought out an entry-level position at a facility operated by a Fortune 100 company. According to his managers, the average electrician there is making $106k a year with overtime, most are in the 80-120k a year range, they can move up the union pay scale pretty quickly if they are motivated to do it.

Most trades are still an affordable,timely education and in higher demand than ever.

madville

(7,408 posts)
61. Of course not but
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:15 PM
Apr 2019

Back at that age I always had at least two or three roommates to live cheap, I remember being the only one for quite awhile that had a working vehicle, I never had to pay for gas lol. Being broke and living frugal can develop beneficial habits, I bought this house when I was 29 and paid it off early at age 41.

 

Progressive Law

(617 posts)
48. Text book Publishers have destroyed the USED book market by requiring online codes.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:23 PM
Apr 2019

Textbook these days are split between the hard copy, and online material. To access the required online material, you need to buy the NEW BOOK, with the one-time code. That makes the used book useless because the code can't be used a 2nd time.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
52. During my last two years I lived in a boarding house in sonething called the "student ghetto" near
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:34 PM
Apr 2019

the University of Florida. The area was interesting to say the least. I slept on a mattress on the floor and shared a bathroom, shower and kitchen with all types of characters. My rent was $50 per month.

I envied the kids that had cars, lived in the nice apartments and eat at the nice places around campus. But when I left school, I had maybe $2,000 in debt (I paid my way by working two jobs), which I quickly paid off in a few months once I had a job.

After I graduated and got a job, the corporation sent a big name moving company to pack me up. All I had was a bicycle and a half packing box of clothes. The guy that came to my room felt sorry for me, but I was a newly minted engineer who in a few days would be earning likely three times what he earned.

 

Progressive Law

(617 posts)
53. Look at this textbook required for most college level Spanish courses. $200+
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:35 PM
Apr 2019
https://vistahigherlearning.com/imagina-4th-edition.html

It's $200. The textbook itself would probably run about $25 used. But the used book is useless because half of the content is online only. And you need the one-time use code to access the online content. So you either buy the new book with the code for $200+, or you buy the used book for $25 and the code separately, which also just happens to cost $160+.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
89. That is highway robbery. There is no reason for that.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:51 PM
Apr 2019

Good textbooks are always top sellers, but if publishers did not use tricks, people would buy used books and largely cut the publishers out. Yet, either way, the publisher would have made good money since hundreds of thousands of students nationwide would use the book at some point.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
59. At many Universities you are required to live on campus for, at least,
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 05:51 PM
Apr 2019

your freshman year and are required to purchase a meal voucher for each semester of your freshman year. Having a decent computer is a necessity. Of course ordering pizzas and such is very tempting to such young kids who have never had to deal with any real responsibilities.

RHMerriman

(1,376 posts)
62. At this point in my life, I am intimately familiar with the situation of
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:29 PM
Apr 2019

At this point in my life, I am intimately familiar with the situation of three college students.

One undergraduate/graduate at a well-regarded state campus, one at a very well known R1 (well within the Top 50 in the US), and the third at a public STEM-focused campus; the last two both undergrads.

Although their living conditions were not as spartan as mine were when I was their age and in the US military, none of them are pampered. All are working hard, living frugally, and are hardly spendthrifts.

So unless you are going to get much more specific about who and what you're aiming at, I don't know that your "back in my day" point is particularly well supported.

Tink41

(537 posts)
63. Lets not forget
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:41 PM
Apr 2019

Once the private loan industry got involved, things changed. Namely tuition. Just put my child thru a few years ago. Family and myself pitched in for laptop, used books when possible. They did develop an expensive tea habit but such is life. It was a private school, where I was advised years ago may be more affordable in certain circumstances than a state school.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
64. You definitely sound like a privileged Boomer....
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:51 PM
Apr 2019

Many schools now require students to use University housing, for at least the first year of college even if they have readily available off campus housing. Which is very expensive. Many professors have their own self-published books(mostly ebooks now) that have DRM methods to prevent sharing or reselling them, they also cost a pretty penny. For large publishers, even books in print will have software tied to them for things such as pop quizes and tests that changes every year and is usually tied to a serial code, forcing students to buy new textbooks every year and has pretty much destroyed the used book market for college textbooks.

Despite this use of enclosed, inelastic markets to cheat students out of their money, whether earned or borrowed, college tuition has doubled on average from the late 1980s, while wages, across the board, from middle class to minimum wage has stagnated.

Data on tuition, Excel file.

Summary on Tuition.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
90. MM is older than I am. But I am a younger Boomer.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:57 PM
Apr 2019

In our worldview, no generation had it harder than we did. But reality is always something else. I am practicing saying "Get off of my lawn!!!!", but fortunately I have a few years left before I use it.

BluesRunTheGame

(1,614 posts)
65. One thing I've noticed...
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:00 PM
Apr 2019

...about a couple of University towns that I was familiar with back in the good old days.

The big old houses that we used to live in for cheap have been torn down and replaced with conventional apartment buildings. They are owned and managed by corporations that are interested in maximizing their profits. No more renting a place for 400 bucks and splitting the rent 10 ways.

Today the “smart” kids live in their vehicles and shower at the gym. We had it a lot better.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
92. You are seeing what I see in the city where I went to college.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:01 PM
Apr 2019

When I look at the places now, I know that I could not remotely afford them, even when I went to school.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
66. Your college days were a little different than mine, perhaps, but ...
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:35 PM
Apr 2019

... I wasn't allowed to live off-campus -- I was underage when I was accepted into early admission, so it was my Pell Grant paying for my dorm room and fees, and my National Merit Semi-Finalist status that got me the full-tuition scholarship. My books weren't covered, that was an expense the Pell Grant people decided was supposed to be handled by the student -- and so even though I was eligible for a larger one, the cost for what it could cover was less than the maximum, so I only got awarded what was needed.

The college insisted that part of the dorm room charge include a cafeteria allowance, and their food was for the most part inedible. I was allergic to milk, so claimed I was vegetarian as well -- and it freed up $300 of my $600 I would never spend in that cafeteria for books. They sometimes had used for the classes I was scheduled to take, but used wasn't always an option if they had just upgraded the text. So getting the $300 in campus bookstore credit each quarter made a difference.

I used the $80 a month I got in back child support to eat off of in the dorms -- yay ramen, powdered potato soup, etc. I usually bought coffee from the espresso bar with my $300 in cafeteria credits, as it was the only thing I cared to eat out of there.

-------

Still, by then computers were required if you were going to write a paper without having to go to the lab to use it.

And because I was away from relatives, when I fell down the stairs and tore two ligaments in my ankle, my boyfriend -- who had a car -- had to take me to the ER to avoid an ambulance bill. He also took me to WM once a week for the ramen. The campus itself was well over 5 miles from the WM, and was in such a small town that to get anything other than WM you had to drive over one or two cities.

-------

Now, any type of grocery markets are pretty much gone except WMs and other giants. Laptops are almost an essential and used in-class for many classes for note-taking, as most kids now type faster than they write.

And the maximum Pell Grant doesn't even cover full room and board at that university anymore, let alone the $3k in "fees" they are charging, when before for most students it covered R&B, fees, and at least some tuition if they didn't already have a free-tuition scholarship.

Hekate

(90,662 posts)
67. Worst thing about textbooks is they've got you coming & going if they come with a CD...
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 07:37 PM
Apr 2019

My husband taught Computer Information Systems for 22 years at the local community college, and the technical textbooks often came with CDs and a "new" edition was issued each year. Once the CDs were opened up, the book could not be resold. It is a racket.

I don't know what the racket is for other texts, except they are also very expensive. Furthermore, any cost savings for the (temporary) use of e-books is minor and will be quickly swept away once hard copies are no longer available. E-texts is a bright idea that's been around awhile, and I hope it is never fully implemented.

I know all about living very cheaply as a student -- I did it as a college student in the last half of the '60s. Half-time job, no car, cheap busses, miles of walking, roommates in off-campus housing, used books -- but, most importantly, fees and tuition were low enough that I was never compelled to take out loans. No computers. Pay phones were nearly everywhere in case of emergency.

Nowadays, a certain amount of electronic equipment is a necessity. It just is. Computer with online connectivity, and a printer. Basic cell phone.

I woke up pretty late to the economic plight of today's college students, and while I think a lot of young people could benefit from some old-fashioned belt-tightening and lowering of their standard of living, I also see that for middle and lower income kids like I was, the system has absolutely been rigged against them. Tuition, fees, and texts have inflated all out of proportion to anything else. The loan system, which was supposed to help them, has been turned into a nightmare of debt and interest on the debt.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
72. Yes. The whole college environment has changed.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:20 PM
Apr 2019

I think more changes are needed, to make that environment more accessible to financially challenged students. It won't be a simple process, and is going to require major infusions of tax dollars. There's a long road ahead, I'm afraid.

Hekate

(90,662 posts)
102. I think what people don't get about the cost of college is the lack of that tax money. When you & I
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 03:59 AM
Apr 2019

...were going to public school and public college, it was underwritten by taxpayers and legislators to an extent not seen today. The GI Bill showed the way for educating adult men, and the Cold War provided the impetus for educating the K-12 age group so we could keep up with the Soviet Union.

Today there's a huge disconnect in people's brains -- Grover Norquist and his ilk fed people a line that taxes were the root of all evil, and that there was no such thing as the "public commons." After a generation of this malarkey, I fear we have bred a really ignorant population.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
94. I was surprised to read that well into the 20th century, only about 9%
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:11 PM
Apr 2019

of students went to college. Looks like we are headed back to where we were, only the well-off or rich could afford college and most everyone else took wage jobs, except today the wage jobs are largely gone, except for some trade jobs.

Hekate

(90,662 posts)
103. Right. See my reply to MinMan above regarding tax support for public education...
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 04:02 AM
Apr 2019

...partly as a function of the GI Bill and partly as a function of competition with the Soviet Union, and how it was underwritten by taxes.

llmart

(15,536 posts)
71. What I learned from working at a university.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:16 PM
Apr 2019

Just like in almost every aspect of our lives, including my generation which I believe is yours also, you will find examples of both types of students on a university campus. I had students who worked for me and I got to know them quite well. I had lazy, entitled students who had zero initiative and thought they should be able to pick and choose which jobs I asked them to do. Then I had students who were extremely respectful of the fact that I was their supervisor, mature enough to know that at some point they were going to be asking me for a reference for a job they applied to, and came to work on time and actually worked.

With regard to their living expenses and spending habits, yes, overall I would say that today's students really do live fairly decently and most of the students get help from their parents and expect their parents to help even if their parents really can't afford it. I had one student who was just so full of gratitude to her parents for helping with her college expenses. She was from a blue collar family and was the first in her family to go to college and she felt a huge responsibility to do the best she could. Just a pleasant girl to work with.

On move-out day each end of the school year, I still remember the stuff that these kids would throw in the dumpsters outside the dorms. Everything from floor fans to furniture to lamps to whatever. They ate out three meals a day and bought the fancy $4 a pop coffee drinks on a regular basis. No cooking on a hotplate or eating toasted cheese sandwiches in the student center. The student center has all the franchised eating places like Chic Fil A (ugh), Au Bon Pain, some pizza place and many others. I ate there one time but brought my lunch every day. Most of the students had better cars than I did.

These are facts. They are not made up. I could fill a book with what I learned about college today. So, has tuition skyrocketed? Absolutely. Are there too many highly paid administrators that are useless? Absolutely. But on the flip side, the students really could benefit from learning to live without some of the unnecessary expenses. There are times we could not find a student to work part time in our department because no one had applied for the opening. That always boggled my mind.

One final note. Many, many, many of them go to warm climates on spring break and fly there, get a hotel room, drink themselves silly. Some stayed on campus and worked. Many of the students lived locally, including my daughter, and they lived at home to save money.

It truly was an education for me to work there and see how times had changed.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
73. On my second pass through college,
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:29 PM
Apr 2019

on the GI Bill, plus $100/month from my parents, I did have a car. I made another $250/ month scavenging stuff from the dorm dumpsters and selling it at the local swap meet. Much more at semester's end. What was thrown away was amazing, really. Once, I found a Selmer baritone saxophone in its case, in perfect condition, in the dumpster. I bought a used pick-up truck with the money I got for it. Some kid just tossed it!

And that was in 1970.

llmart

(15,536 posts)
79. A saxophone in the dumpster?
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:47 PM
Apr 2019

That's heresy!

Seriously, you wouldn't believe what these kids would throw away. There were times I wanted to come back after dark and take some of the stuff. The big stuff they would just place all around the dumpsters.

My son went to college in the early 90's and we never gave him a penny even though his father and I who were both college educated, white collar professionals could have well afforded it. He was an independent kid from the time he was little and he was going to do it himself. He got several scholarships, went on the co-op program so it took him five years instead of four, worked on the college radio station as a jazz hour disc jockey, worked every summer. When we went to graduation, one of his engineering professors saw our name tags and came up to us and said, "He was one of the only ones who worked." At first I thought he meant worked at his studies, but he went on to clarify that he knew he worked odd jobs all the time. I told the professor that he paid for his entire way through school and he was so impressed.

happybird

(4,606 posts)
85. That's where my college boyfriend and I got all our furniture
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:14 PM
Apr 2019

It was insane what people were just throwing away at the end of each semester!

Our best finds were a perfectly good kegerator and a 55 gal. aquarium with the hood and decent filter system. The town also had a designated Big Trash Night once a month, when you could put anything out on the curb for pick up. BTN was an Event for us.


MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
108. It probably wouldn't fit in his Volkswagen Beetle.
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 10:06 AM
Apr 2019

A lot of the stuff that went into the dorm dumpsters at the end of a semester got recycled. I wasn't the only person who scavenged those dumpsters and sold the stuff. At the end of the school year, it was especially lucrative, and we added the student off-campus housing dumpsters to our routes.

I specialized in odd stuff the other scavengers weren't as interested in. I filled boxes with discarded textbooks and sold them to a local used bookstore that students who couldn't afford the texts bought them. Boxes and boxes of them. Back then, there were no scientific calculators. Everyone used slide rules. Then, they threw them away when they graduated. The prize ones were precision slide rules from Pickett, made of metal. One year, I found four dozen of them over a couple of days. New, at the college bookstore, they cost almost $40. My scavenged ones were lots cheaper for new students to buy, so I saved them until the new freshmen were coming on campus. I sold them for $10 each.

The occasional musical instrument was icing on the cake. But, there were always a few that showed up in the dumpsters every semester. That amazed me. Mom and dad payed a lot for those instruments, but they ended up in the dumpster. I couldn't imagine doing such a thing, but it was profitable to scavenge them.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,852 posts)
84. MineralMan, I have heard many stories of what
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:11 PM
Apr 2019

college kids abandon at the end of the academic year. I tell you, there's a lot of money to be made by going to the schools, picking up all the stuff, storing it until the beginning of the fall semester and selling it to the incoming kids. Or maybe selling stuff at swap meets or on Ebay. Whatever. What is left behind is criminal.

IndyOp

(15,517 posts)
76. Yep. The college town in which I live
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:39 PM
Apr 2019

has been putting up fancy super-expensive condos all over town. Students pay more in rent than I pay for the mortgage of my very modest home.

On the flip side we also have low income students working 30 hours a week to pay rent and wind up going to food pantries to have enough to eat.

It’s batshit crazy.

TheBlackAdder

(28,188 posts)
80. Two of my kids live(d) at dorms of universities, one was $60K/yr other $30K/yr. The dorms were dank.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:51 PM
Apr 2019

.

I'm talking Trump-class shitholes.

Painted over peeling paint. Rundown elevators, shitty lighting, rank bathrooms, fucked-up beds, crappy heat and no air conditioning, etc.

The room & board plans are $10-12K a year. The problem is, one school was rural in an upscale area. There was no way one could live cheaply off campus. The other is in a urban setting the one still attends. While my sisters went to that same second school, and lived off campus, it was filled with their struggles, since you can't park a car on campus, have to connect with their bus system, and it took one to two hours to get to class. Not very efficient when you're taking 15-16 credits and working part-time. It's also in a hilly section of the state and the campus is spread out over miles, so unless you're a triathlete, you're not biking it.

.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,852 posts)
83. I'm only a couple of years younger than MineralMan,
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:08 PM
Apr 2019

so many of my experiences were quite similar.

The truth is that at state colleges and universities the tuition was low enough back then (I started college in the fall of 1965) a summer job at minimum wage, if you lived at home and saved most of your earnings, might possibly cover tuition and fees.

I was in Tucson and attended the University of Arizona, which was a very low cost college at the time. I'm sure it still is, relatively speaking. I met students who were from New York and New Jersey who were there because the out of state costs, including dorm and meal ticket, was still less than what they'd pay back home.

I had two scholarships. if I were to tell you the dollar amounts you'd have trouble believing me, but one covered tuition and fees, the other my books. Books weren't terribly expensive back then. Also, I lived at home, so I didn't have dorm costs.

Here's another interesting factoid. The fall of 1965 was when the first huge wave of baby boomers hit the colleges. Not only were we a numerically large group, but all of a sudden (thank you Vietnam War) a lot of kids were going to college who wouldn't have been going even a year or two before. As a consequence, many public universities had a sudden and enormous crunch from all those students. At the University of Arizona one change was that before 1965, even if you lived in the city of Tucson, you were required to live on campus at least for your freshman year, unless you had some really good excuse not to. But in the fall of 1965, when I started, if you lived in Tucson you were not permitted to live on campus, unless you had some really good excuse to do so. Even so, they were packing four students into dorm rooms intended for two.

Some decades later when I took my sons on college visits, I was often amazed at the many changes the years had wrought. The one that stands out the most is Trinity University in San Antonio, TX. Granted, it's a private university, but still. There was a tour for the parents, and when we got to the dorms I tell you every parent was ready to abandon their children on the spot and enroll ourselves. The dorms were like palaces, especially compared to what had existed 35 or so years earlier.

The textbooks situation, as has already been discussed, is horrifying. My Son the Astronomer has told me that at the graduate level in his field it's not too bad, because often there is no text or there are inexpensive ways to download what's needed.

Here's another thing that a lot of people don't know. If you -- or your kid -- are/is in the hard sciences, you should not have to pay a penny more for school (other than said textbooks) after the undergraduate degree. One of My Son the Astronomer's high school teachers had told me that, and I discovered it's true. When he enrolled in a master's degree program out of state, the first letter he got from the school (after acceptance and his commitment to attend) was to inform him that he would be charged in state, not out of state tuition, saving a bunch of money. A few weeks later a second letter came waiving tuition entirely. Then a third letter outlining his TA responsibilities and what he'd be paid. It was darn near enough to live on.

He's since relocated to another school on the east coast, now in a PhD program (he won't be getting a master's, but in his field that's not a drawback). A similar series of letters ensued. The only trivial difference is that he's in a part of the country that is more expensive, so his day to day expenses (apartment rent and the like) are higher, but there are savings to cover that.

I am hugely in favor of forgiving loans, of making undergraduate degrees free or close to that. Medical school should not cost a huge amount. I'm still not sure about law school. Let me think about that one.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
95. I think undergrad and professional schools should be free or close to it.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 10:34 PM
Apr 2019

In return, graduates would take "public service" jobs for X number of years. For example, new Doctors would work in ER at public hospitals or in public clinics, with good pay and no debt to pay off. New Attornies would work as public defenders or prosecutors, at decent pay and no debt to pay off.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,852 posts)
96. Perhaps.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 11:00 PM
Apr 2019

I'm not sure the public service jobs would be even needed, but others know a lot more about these things than I do.

I know that at times in the past there have been some kind of things with medical school being free or close to such if the doctor works for a few years in a rural area under served by doctors. Which is an entirely different thing than the cost of medical school. For lots of reasons, not the least of which is the money, doctors are often reluctant to go to rural areas. I have no idea what can be done to solve that problem. Perhaps a sort of domestic peace corps thing where doctors sign up to work for several years in these places.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
97. If rural areas had healthcare for all, then doctors would not have to worry
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 11:08 PM
Apr 2019

about fees for service. They can work on salary (say $150,000 per year) with no debt and no need to pay for and maintain office equipment.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,852 posts)
100. Excellent point.
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 12:02 AM
Apr 2019

The current system means people in medical school pay some unconscionable amount for their MD, and so are understandably motivated to go into a specialty or to a place where they can make maximum money.

Heck, with no debt, a salary of something less than $150k ought to be acceptable. But your point, and even your specific dollar amount example is very well taken. No matter what your college major is, if you got out with no debt, what a difference that would make.

With or without the debt issue, I do wish more students would do a bit of research about jobs available in their chosen major. I have often told young people to go ahead and major is something they love, but never lose sight of the need to earn a living once they graduate.

Oh. And even though I'm strongly in favor of free college for all, I would put a time limit/number of credit hours limit in place. 6 years full time, or 150 semester hours. After that if you don't have a degree, you pay for school.

One other thing. More young people should take courses at the local junior college that lead to actual jobs. A liberal arts education does not make sense for everyone. Specific training for a job does. You can always take classes later in in philosophy or anthropology or art history or whatever else rocks your boat but isn't a practical career choice. And you can always read books on your own.

I'm speaking as someone who wound up taking college classes much of my adult life. I kept on relocating to different parts of the country and not completing a degree, until I was nearly 60 and got an AA degree with a paralegal certificate. Hooray! At various times over the years I was working towards a degree, then other times I wasn't and was simply taking classes I wanted to take. I had the good fortune not to be needing to complete a degree and get a job, but if I'd had to do that, I would have. Trust me. I'm incredibly practical.

Oh, and I will brag that I've often had people think I'm a college professor. There were even college professors who thought I was one of them, simply taking their class because I was interested. Wow. Not a college professor, just someone very interested in all sorts of things.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
101. You laid out some very sage observations.
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 12:20 AM
Apr 2019

Especially on putting a time limit on getting a degree. Also on junior college. Some kids are not ready for the life and pace of a four year college, both of my roommates as a first quarter freshman flunked out because they chose to party more than study.

caraher

(6,278 posts)
86. Actually, there's a huge class divide here
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:20 PM
Apr 2019

Schools are building luxury dorms for the well-heeled, and at the other extreme there are homeless students living in cars. College costs aren't skyrocketing because college kids are living it up. According to an article titled "New study finds that 36% of college students don’t have enough to eat"

Researchers surveyed 43,000 college students at 66 schools and found that 36 percent of students on U.S. college campuses are considered “food insecure,” meaning they do not get enough to eat. Similar studies echo these statistics.

<snip>

Housing is also a major challenge for college students. Researchers found that 36 percent of all college students and 46 percent of community college students were considered to be housing insecure. Nine percent of four-year college students and 12 percent of community college students reported experiencing completely homeless in the past year. Among community college students, 22 percent reported being both food and housing insecure.



The graphic below looks only at tuition costs at a public university - this sets aside housing and food. I think this demonstrates that it's not lifestyle choices squeezing college students.



The Myth of Working Your Way Through College

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
98. And then there was me.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 11:11 PM
Apr 2019

Who would have sold my socks in college to make ends meet if they did not have so many holes in them.

tirebiter

(2,536 posts)
99. I just tossed my socks
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 12:00 AM
Apr 2019

Can’t remember if that was before or after my underwear went in to the trash. Who could afford laundry soap.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
105. The biggest change isn't the standard of living of most students. It's the sheer numbers
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 05:10 AM
Apr 2019

of administrators, and bureaucratic layers, that didn't exist before.

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
110. YYEEEPP
Sun Apr 28, 2019, 11:02 AM
Apr 2019

The college town I did in my undergrad, as most I assume, was litered with houses cut into four apartments, four to an apartment, two to a bedroom, fairly small, and it was about $600 per a semester. The landlords were making out, and it was cheap living.

We live in a major state school town, and over the last two decades, there have been major builds with retreat style living units, each student with their own rooms, and posh shared commons and all kinds of extra amenities, its disneyesque, and they, or more accurately, their parents, pay for it.

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