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Fri May 17, 2019, 07:06 AM

All those posting your belief there will be no justice...

...I guess I'm going to stop being annoyed with you and start being more compassionate. I'm going to remind myself that you're exhausted to the point of feeling hopeless. I'm going to remind myself that your views are a result of too much blatant corruption and not enough evidence of justice.

I'm going to remind myself and others to remember all you've been through and that you need some rest and some good news. That you need a break from arguing because even if you're right, all you're doing is adding to your own fatigue and spending down the energy of others. I'm not going to spend energy trying to make you feel better because right now, that won't make you feel better. It'll only give you something else to argue about and waste more energy.

I am comforted to know there are more people who want justice than those who frantically scramble to avoid it. Justice always prevails, usually at a rate that annoys someone or groups of people. It can't happen soon enough for those of us here, but we continue to move steadily in its direction.

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Reply All those posting your belief there will be no justice... (Original post)
Trueblue Texan May 2019 OP
Ninga May 2019 #1
lunatica May 2019 #32
Ninga May 2019 #33
lunatica May 2019 #36
hlthe2b May 2019 #2
MaryMagdaline May 2019 #3
hlthe2b May 2019 #4
Ninga May 2019 #8
hlthe2b May 2019 #9
ancianita May 2019 #15
hlthe2b May 2019 #17
MaryMagdaline May 2019 #29
lagomorph777 May 2019 #25
MaryMagdaline May 2019 #30
MBS May 2019 #43
madaboutharry May 2019 #5
jayfish May 2019 #10
madaboutharry May 2019 #11
MaryMagdaline May 2019 #14
malaise May 2019 #6
RT Atlanta May 2019 #7
JDC May 2019 #16
Locrian May 2019 #45
Firestorm49 May 2019 #12
Snarkoleptic May 2019 #13
Act_of_Reparation May 2019 #24
Kurt V. May 2019 #18
hurple May 2019 #19
rainin May 2019 #20
Amyishere May 2019 #46
Act_of_Reparation May 2019 #21
DavidDvorkin May 2019 #22
Trueblue Texan May 2019 #37
Act_of_Reparation May 2019 #48
Pluvious May 2019 #23
Kablooie May 2019 #26
Trueblue Texan May 2019 #38
malaise May 2019 #42
MBS May 2019 #44
Magoo48 May 2019 #27
Honeycombe8 May 2019 #28
old guy May 2019 #51
amcgrath May 2019 #31
rainin May 2019 #52
MFGsunny May 2019 #34
lindysalsagal May 2019 #35
JGug1 May 2019 #39
Oneironaut May 2019 #40
Hotler May 2019 #49
old guy May 2019 #53
Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #41
ananda May 2019 #47
Act_of_Reparation May 2019 #54
lillypaddle May 2019 #50
VOX May 2019 #55

Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:18 AM

1. Please be kind and patient toward such posters who express frustration. Too many blatant and

obviously criminal and wrong things have happen in politics and justice never showed up.

Once a person who follows issues closely and cares, lives through a few of those times....they only have their experience of no justice to base their feelings on.

We simply do not know what we do not know and not one poster here can guarantee how this mess will turn out.

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Response to Ninga (Reply #1)

Sat May 18, 2019, 12:53 PM

32. Actually no battle was ever won when you throw your hands up in despair

Thatís pretty much an outcome you can predict.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #32)

Sat May 18, 2019, 01:20 PM

33. True dat. War not peace. The only warriors I know haven't left their keyboards. So I don't

understand the battle of which you speak? Twitter? FB?

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Response to Ninga (Reply #33)

Sat May 18, 2019, 02:50 PM

36. Cute.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:19 AM

2. I try to but it has not escaped me that there are one hell of a lot of people just barely holding on

I know it is hard, but perhaps those constantly posting "hopelessness" might consider this. I think if we reach inside ourselves we might find a way to act and speak such that those on the edge will not topple.

Most are posting in this manner to vent their frustration. We all understand that. But those doing so just simply because they wish to laud their "I TOLD YOU SO" over everyone here--(though few here were naive enough to believe anything re: Trump was a "done deal" ) need to rethink. I certainly don't want to be responsible for pushing anyone experiencing depression and helplessness beyond what they can live with. Surely they don't either.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:21 AM

3. A Facebook friend has reminded me since 2016 that optimism is part of the resistance

The enemy wants us to feel depressed.

Iím with you ... not going to add to the complaining and not going to expend energy trying to talk people out of negativity.

I generally am negative, but Iíve learned from my friend that my negativity defeats our side.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #3)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:25 AM

4. Indeed. "The enemy wants us to feel depressed". Depression leads to "paralysis" and apathy.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #4)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:54 AM

8. I'm 76. Kennedys assassination, the 2000 election, the evil Iraq war, the 2016 election

are a few reasons I am suspending belief that anything meaningful will result from the current state of affairs.

When you are an eye witness to the stealing of an election by the Bush family and the SCOTUS and saw that justice didn't show up....why would you believe it now?

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Response to Ninga (Reply #8)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:57 AM

9. You are hardly alone in front seat view to history, though I'm not your age.

Arguably the impact of Vietnam, and JFK, and MLK, and RFK, and riots and Watergate, and on and on and on has even more impact for those growing up with it, but too young to understand anything but the fear engendered.

Again, I think given the rising suicide rates, we might consider for one moment what constant negative spewing does to those on the edge. If we give a damn, that is.

Nothing is won with hopelessness and no cause is won after "giving up".

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #4)

Fri May 17, 2019, 09:26 AM

15. Blind optimism breeds complacency. Clear-eyed realism is the basis of good faith, real action.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #15)

Fri May 17, 2019, 09:41 AM

17. Who the hell on DU has blind optimism? That is ridiculous.

Damned ridiculous to throw out such platitudes.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #15)

Fri May 17, 2019, 05:50 PM

29. We had a president who believed in the audacity of hope

That phrase captured my imagination.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #3)

Fri May 17, 2019, 02:39 PM

25. Interesting take. I have often given that advice to people with challenging medical conditions.

"The disease wants you to feel hopeless. That's how it can win. Don't let it win."

In this case, the disease is Trump.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #25)

Fri May 17, 2019, 05:51 PM

30. Good analogy. It is a medical as well as mental issue

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #3)

Sun May 19, 2019, 06:01 AM

43. Excellent, thanks. n/t

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:40 AM

5. I am exhausted.

I have been binge watching on Netflix and MHz to avoid watching the news. (BTW, Dead To Me on Netflix was great.)

It hurts so much to watch republicans circle the wagons around a corrupt and ignorant fool who everyone knows belongs in prison. Then to see bad pennies like Bolton and Barr show up again with their same evil and corrupt intentions is depressing.

Maybe the democrats have a game plan. I sure hope so.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #5)

Fri May 17, 2019, 08:18 AM

10. When You're Finished With DTM...

you should try Rectify and Bloodline. Those should get you through a few more weeks and Rectify is one of the best, most satisfying and complete shows of all time. ...no hyperbole!

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Response to jayfish (Reply #10)

Fri May 17, 2019, 08:22 AM

11. Thanks.

Loved Bloodline. Iíll take a look at Rectify.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #5)

Fri May 17, 2019, 08:56 AM

14. Dead to Me definitely helps

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:45 AM

6. Nice post

Rec

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:46 AM

7. As Dr. King said...

the arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

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Response to RT Atlanta (Reply #7)

Fri May 17, 2019, 09:40 AM

16. My 1st thought

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Response to RT Atlanta (Reply #7)

Sun May 19, 2019, 12:07 PM

45. he also said...

ďThis is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism.Ē
~ Martin Luther King Jr.

Which I think a lot of people are feeling that there isn't much progress being made...

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 08:37 AM

12. One can only hope, Trueblue

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 08:41 AM

13. "The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine." -Euripides

n/t

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #13)

Fri May 17, 2019, 12:16 PM

24. Tell that to the Sabines.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 10:08 AM

18. i don't believe in hope or hopelessness.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 10:08 AM

19. Unfortunately

The only way there will really be any justice is if WE THE PEOPLE demand it. We have to rise up in force and demand action. Shut down everything until something is done.

Unfortunately, more people are concerned with how Game Of Thrones will end, or seeing the new Avengers movie, than taking time out of their TV schedule to do what needs done.

That's just the way it is.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 10:09 AM

20. You wrote "Justice always prevails, usually at a rate that annoys someone or groups of people"

It's not about annoyance for many of us. This is life or death.

Yes, I believe the "arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice", as Dr. King said.

But,
In my lifetime? Maybe
Before I'm homeless and too sick to work? Maybe
Before the planet is inhabitable? Maybe
Before my trans niece is murdered in a hate crime? Maybe
Before my army nephew is killed in a war with Iran or Africa or some other unnecessary war? Maybe

It's too late for 3000+ human beings in Puerto Rico
It's too late for the migrant children who have died
It's too late for the 4 dead servicemen in trump's first botched military raid in Yemen

We'll never have a true body count of those who have died prematurely, directly or indirectly, because of this administration. Those people have lost it all. I don't know how to offer comfort to their loved ones. Justice won't right that wrong.

I understand why it's important that we not lose hope. I also REALLY appreciate the kindness and compassion in your post. I understand we can't get complacent, we can't stop fighting, or they win.

It's just so desperate for some of us who may not survive this.

And every time people repeat the reassuring phrase that "justice will prevail" or the "arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice", I wish they would scream for urgency. For some of us, it may be too late.

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Response to rainin (Reply #20)

Mon May 20, 2019, 03:10 AM

46. I feel the same way, especially after the news that the govt has 1700 more separated children

That is just 1700 more childen that they admit they have, and those detained immigrant children do not have anyone that they can turn to because no inspections of any kind are allowed, not even by legislators who are also either denied entry, or only allowed to talk to a few children while carefully suprervised. This is an an outrage, and every day that goes by that justice is denied is another day those children remaine caged with no one looking out for them. They are who I think about when I am told to be patient. Their pain and trauma and grief will not wait for an election next year. If their voices cannot be heard to demand justice, then I will be one small damn voice speaking for them, but when I push hard to impeach Trump and arrest Barr and get this shit moving, it is them I am also thinking of and speaking for.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 10:17 AM

21. Have you stopped to consider that maybe your naive optimism is just as annoying to realists...

...as their realism is to you?

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #21)

Fri May 17, 2019, 11:40 AM

22. Right.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #21)

Sat May 18, 2019, 08:05 PM

37. I don't think blind optimism or pessimism accurately...

...reflects reality. Pessimists worry about optimism leading to complacency; optimists worry about pessimism draining the energy needed to address the issues of concern. We have to keep our eyes open and do our best to continue moving toward solutions. That is what has always brought progress. And you cannot do that without some hope of your actions being effective. Otherwise, you'd do nothing at all--the exact fear you have about being optimistic.

In any case, would mutual compassion make anything worse? We're all doing our best here.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Reply #37)

Mon May 20, 2019, 07:44 AM

48. Pessimism isn't blind.

It's empirical.

Look around you. There is no divine justice. No heaven, no hell. There is no karma. There is no moral arc to history. Everything doesn't just turn out fine in the end. The only justice in the universe is the justice that we, as societies, make for ourselves.

It is important people understand what is at stake here.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 12:03 PM

23. I was one of many that carried blind optimistic faith in the American voter in 2016

I went so far as to mock someone's prediction of the Con winning, and betting $50 bucks against that outcome.

Now I just want to move to Canada, this doesn't feel like America anymore.

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Response to Pluvious (Reply #23)

Fri May 17, 2019, 03:20 PM

26. So you lost 50$ and got Trump as an added penalty. Whew.

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Response to Pluvious (Reply #23)

Sat May 18, 2019, 08:10 PM

38. I actually believe you were correct in your optimism.

Trump did NOT win. He is an illegitimate resident in the Oval Office. Now we have to figure out how to deal with it legally, constitutionally, and effectively. And we have to figure out how to prevent future violations of our voting systems.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Reply #38)

Sun May 19, 2019, 05:57 AM

42. Trump did NOT win

Ding ding we have a winner

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Reply #38)

Sun May 19, 2019, 06:03 AM

44. + 1000 n/t

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 04:25 PM

27. Slow walkin', hummmhawww, tentative, apathetic reluctance is the enemy of Justice.

Every day we fiddle makes justice harder to attain. Some day soon heís gonna order his generals to do something really stupid, and I donít know if any of them have the nerve to tell him to go fuck himself. As it stands right now, justice could take years and years to exact. Protections which required decades of blood, sweat, and tears to establish. across the federal government spectrum, have already been cast aside by the greedy bastard while fanatical judges are lined up around the block just waitiní for their robes. Our resistance has never been equal to the crisis we face.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 04:33 PM

28. I worked as a litigation paralegal for over 3 decades. Justice does not always prevail.

Anyone who knows anything about the law knows that the law doesn't exist for the sake of justice alone. And it doesn't work in practice to bring about justice. Although one hopes that is the result a majority of the time.

Law is a rule, statute or code that sets out what is and is not allowed. Then two sides show up in court, each with its own view of how that law was followed, or violated. Each side has evidence. The legal system strives to find which side has the most convincing evidence, and which side has evidence that tips the scales of justice, if only slightly (in a civil case), or beyond a reasonable doubt (in a criminal case).

There are so many judgments along the way, that the end result may be justice. Or it may not be. It also depends on one's view of justice. And, as we've seen with the Mueller Report, is starts with someone deciding that a guilty verdict is certain enough, and the evidence is strong enough, that it is worth even trying to bring the wrongdoer to justice in court. Mueller decided the evidence wasn't strong enough, for what HE could do.

So now it's up to the House. They need to decide if the evidence is strong enough, the votes sure enough, and the things that flow from those votes good enough, to impeach or file an indictment. It's not a sure thing, at this point.

So while everyone hopes that justice will prevail, realists know that it's not certain that it will. Whether justice prevails or not, though, life goes on, and we have high hopes to win the next election. For some, that will be justice. For others (like myself), that'd be a great thing, but not justice.



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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #28)

Mon May 20, 2019, 10:34 AM

51. Agreed.

What it all comes down to is an opinion not an actual hard and fast rule.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2019, 12:48 PM

31. Nixon bombed Cambodia and Laos

He not only didn't tell congress or senate, he lied about it. Kissinger was his advisor.
Loose estimates suggest Kissinger was responsible for about 4m deaths worldwide.
George Bush Sr. met and arranged for US hostages to be held for longer than Iran had intended to, because republicans wanted Carter embarrassed before the upcoming election - also,to glorify Reagan when he came in to office. These agreements led to Iran-Contra, which were under Regans presidency.
George Bush Jr almost certainly came to power via a rigged election. He declared an illegal war on Iraq. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell and Bolton - among others, lied about WMDs they lied about Husseins funding and training of Al Quada. They killed and displaced millions, they opened Guantanamo to subvert legal requirements in the US. They used 'rendition' to deliver people to secret prisons around Eastern Europe. They reinstigated torture, they covered for Abu Grahib. They used banned weapons in Iraq including phosphorus and napalm.


So there are a dozen heads of state. With crimes that break the constitution, breach the Geneva convention, where are the penalties? How was justice served? Which of these people ever spent time in jail or paid a fine or was even fired?

Justice does not just fall out of the sky

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Response to amcgrath (Reply #31)

Mon May 20, 2019, 10:56 AM

52. Excellent comment. This is worth remembering right now.

The stakes could never be higher.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2019, 01:34 PM

34. Thank You, TT. I really needed YOUR WORDS today. Aaaamen. n/t

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2019, 01:37 PM

35. I can't put on the news this weekend. Too expensive emotionally.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:30 PM

39. Justice

No, sadly justice doesn't alway prevail. The wheels of justice do, I understand, turn slowly. Let us hope that, this time, they do reach the proper conclusion. They did NOT with Dick Cheney and others. He remains unrepentant, his odious spawn, now speaking his exact language and lusting for power.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:48 PM

40. I don't "believe" there will be justice, as belief in itself in pointless.

Ignoring the patronizing tone of this post, justice does not always prevail. That only happens in movies, as opposed to the countless examples in real life where justice did not prevail.

I take exception with the idea that "Trump's comeuppance is inevitable," as that is a purely fantastical way of thinking. Sorry to say that we are not in a clichť movie where the good guys always win, and there is absolutely no guarantee that everything is going to be okay. Anyone who believes otherwise is engaging in wishful thinking.

We are not moving towards "justice." In fact, we are moving in the opposite direction. Womens' rights are under attack, and fundamentalism is clawing its way back into politics.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #40)

Mon May 20, 2019, 09:46 AM

49. +1 nt

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #40)

Mon May 20, 2019, 10:57 AM

53. Yup.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Sun May 19, 2019, 05:32 AM

41. There will be SOME justice. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Reject binary thinking.


Has been a little justice already.

Not all of the tRump organized crime gang will be brought to justice, nor will those who are brought in receive the full justice they might get.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Mon May 20, 2019, 03:12 AM

47. The wheel of justice grinds exceeding slow, but it grinds exceeding fine.

"The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice." -- MLK Jr

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Response to ananda (Reply #47)

Mon May 20, 2019, 11:01 AM

54. Tell that to the Carthaginians.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Mon May 20, 2019, 10:02 AM

50. Thanks for posting

You're right, of course, and so many of us are simply worn down. And Mother Nature certainly isn't helping matters, and is instead contributing mightily to our feelings of hopelessness. I keep thinking that when trump is gone, things will finally look up.

One can only hope. There is nothing else left.

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Response to Trueblue Texan (Original post)

Mon May 20, 2019, 11:15 AM

55. "Justice always prevails." How I wish that was true.

For starters, I think of all the innocent POC who were/are gunned down by police, or who died in jail cells, or who were lynched by white mobs.

Then there are the assassinations of JFK, MLK, jr, and RFK. Did justice prevail there? Or in Vietnam? Or in Iraq?

But as dismal as those realities are, one cannot surrender to it and give in to inaction.

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