The most divisive thing possible

[Tom Rinaldo]

...would be letting Trump continue to divide Americans unimpeded until November 2020. And unless he is totally discredited by then, Trump will divide Americans even more after November 2020 by refusing to concede that he legitimately lost that election.

Low rating hearings featuring buckets of chicken or witnesses who were most relevant 45 years ago are not enough to impede or discredit this President. A very slow boil of continuing incriminating revelations aired in 5 minute segments on cable TV will not change much in the way of underlying dynamics.

Trump does his most damage when he is free to concentrate on offense.

[uponit7771]

1. Nearly 80% Democrats want some type of impeachment process I don't see Dem pols ignoring that

[Shell_Seas]

2. Republicans still love him....

[Beartracks]

5. They love that he "sticks it to libs" even if they think he's an asshole.

Hell, they consider his assholery a feature. As for corruption and treason, they're simply blind to it.

==========

[Shell_Seas]

7. How do we overcome this obstacle?

[Beartracks]

9. All I can think of is "Vote." Without getting a critical mass of Democrats...

... in Congress AND in state legislatures (doesn't matter if they're liberal, centrist, blue dog, yellow dog, dem-socialists, etc. as long as they have a (D) next to their names), then we can't control the levers of government to re-establish rule of law, ethical norms, the Fairness Doctrine... etc.

=============

[TwilightZone]

13. That's the bottom line.

We can't count on anything else, including impeachment, to get rid of Trump. The only realistic option is to vote him out in 2020, combined with gains in the areas you mentioned. Without support (as Obama would no doubt note), it's exceedingly difficult to get anything accomplished.

[mopinko]

14. we grow our own base, and protect the votes.

they only win when the can cheat.
you cannot cheat in the bright light of day.
aint nobody gonna stop shining the light on these cockroaches this time.

[Ohiogal]

10. Spot on, Beartracks

[TwilightZone]

3. Most people made up their minds about Trump years ago.

If nothing he's done so far has discredited him to roughly 40% of the voting public, I don't put much faith in anything that's exposed by hearings or impeachment changing that. I think people are putting way too much hope that further details about stuff we already know will change the minds of a significant number of people. I don't see it happening, regardless of the venue or the content.

His 40% will believe whatever Trump and the right-wing tells them to believe, just like they have since day one. If none of the 10,000 lies and his myriad crimes have changed their minds, nothing will.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. It's not that first 40%. It's the next 8%

Many of them tune out politics as much as they possibly can, and no that minority doesn't already know most of what we do already about Trump's treason and criminality.

[TwilightZone]

8. That 8% is already leaning heavily left.

Head-to-head polls show about a 30% lead for Biden (and others, in similar polls) with independents. Quinnipiac has it at 58/28.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/11/politics/2020-matchups-quinnipiac-poll/index.html

His approval among Is is 30 points underwater, as it has been for most of his presidency.

Again, most people have made up their minds. His approval ratings are relatively - and remarkably, for that matter - stable, for that very reason. Impeachment is unlikely to cause the seismic shift that many are all but certain will occur.

[Beartracks]

11. But... but... Trump says HE'S leading in the polls, because... MAGA!!!

[TwilightZone]

16. Unfortunately, I don't think he believes that.

I'd be OK with it if he did, because his denial of reality would help us in the long run. Sadly, I'm sure it's just lie #12,543.

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. Polls are usually most volatile when an election is reduced to candidate A vs B and is in full swing

There is plenty of history to show that. The heaviest negative campaigns usually emerge after Labor Day during an election year. I don't have a lot of confidence in a snapshot from today.

[TwilightZone]

19. The polls re: Trump haven't been volatile.

In fact, they've been historically stable. Why? Because nearly everyone made up their minds about him already, in most cases years ago, in some cases decades ago.

As I noted, it's not just head-to-head. His approval among independents has been 30 points underwater* for nearly his entire presidency.

The phantom swing contingent that you and others keep asserting exists has no basis in reality. Trump's historically-stable ratings are proof of that. If you're holding out hope that impeachment will sway a large number of people, you are likely to be disappointed. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it anyway.

*https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. I say lock those numbers in, you say it's already done

It seems that we have a respectful disagreement

[BeyondGeography]

4. Democrats have to stop thinking the courts will take care of things

Reason is no substitute for emotion, especially in the Fakebook age. We have done next to nothing to leverage the power of the facts that we already have at our disposal while we wait on the process. Pelosi prayed for Trump after his cover-up snit, he looked like the big loser, and magically the next day the Internet was saturated with a doctored video of her slurring her speech. Rope-a-dope doesn’t work in bar fights. Someone please alert our leaders.

[BeyondGeography]

18. Which is why impeachment is the absolute last thing he wants

Asshole threatened to sue today if it happens. And we’re not impeaching because that’s what he so dearly wants? Please.