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shockey80

(4,379 posts)
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 11:25 AM Jun 2019

This may be the reason, the cause , of why Mueller fell short.

We all know Mueller is a straight shooter. We all know he has courage. We all know he goes by the book and will not cross any legal lines. So, what happened?

I believe Mueller feared crossing or even approaching any political line. I believe it played a major role in his decision making. Unfortunately, this moment in history demanded that political lines be crossed.

In his report Mueller basically said this; Yes a crime was committed, I could not charge ANYONE because I felt I could not prove the people committing the crime knew what they were doing was a crime. He was talking about the Trump Tower meeting. He was talking about Trump JR.

If it was you or I in that meeting would Mueller have charged us with crime? I believe Mueller feared charging Trump Jr and maybe Kushner because he feared the political repercussions.

I would bet money there were people on Mueller's team who wanted to indict Trump JR.

Also, I believe the main reason Mueller does not want to testify is because he fears political repercussions. I hope he soon realizes that there is no way around political repercussions.

This moment in history demands political lines must be crossed in order to save our Democracy.

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This may be the reason, the cause , of why Mueller fell short. (Original Post) shockey80 Jun 2019 OP
Ignorance of the law is no excuse... dchill Jun 2019 #1
I agree, but that's what Mueller said in his report. It's fucking lame. shockey80 Jun 2019 #7
It is if the law says (or court precedent says, in it's prior enforcement) that willful intent mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #8
That's a good point. We have had ... Whiskeytide Jun 2019 #10
It will take years to pass all the new laws that Trump has made necessary. shockey80 Jun 2019 #11
WORTH? Bottle of beer - $3. Loaf of bread - $2... dchill Jun 2019 #17
Not knowing the difference between right and wrong is no excuse either C_U_L8R Jun 2019 #13
They know the difference... dchill Jun 2019 #18
I don't think Mueller's a straight shooter. He pimped for Baby Bush's WMDs. jalan48 Jun 2019 #2
Yep, when push came to shove, he put the party apparachiks like Barr ahead of the constitution. lark Jun 2019 #3
This Guy is a straight shooter? He can't even look you in the eye when he lies. bahrbearian Jun 2019 #4
imho..... Little Star Jun 2019 #5
I think Mueller was chosen because they knew he wouldn't go political. marylandblue Jun 2019 #6
muellers fundamental problem Locrian Jun 2019 #9
Mueller pulled his punches and he needs to be on tv under oath answering questions.... Thomas Hurt Jun 2019 #12
Mueller was stopped by Barr because he was getting too close FakeNoose Jun 2019 #14
Mueller's Integrity Peace06 Jun 2019 #15
Four main reasons Beausoleil Jun 2019 #16

dchill

(38,481 posts)
1. Ignorance of the law is no excuse...
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 11:28 AM
Jun 2019

...and Mueller doesn't have that excuse, either. Him least of all.

 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
7. I agree, but that's what Mueller said in his report. It's fucking lame.
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 11:39 AM
Jun 2019

Some people wonder why I am so critical of Mueller. I wonder why they don't see what I see.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
8. It is if the law says (or court precedent says, in it's prior enforcement) that willful intent
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 11:41 AM
Jun 2019

to violate the law is part and parcel thereof.

Election finance law is often written in a pretty sketchy way, in no small part I'm sure because it was written BY POLITICIANS.

And Muellers explanation was not JUST that it'd be difficult to prove intent, but also that it'd be difficult to establish the WORTH of the Russian's info, given the cutoffs for amount of dollars before election $ violations become actual crimes.

This esp. makes sense given that he doesn't actually KNOW ... what the information would've consisted of. Mueller doesn't have the physical docs.

These laws are written specifically around the concept of physical, tangible value ... currency, hotel costs, restaurant costs, green fees, boxes of Cubans etc. They're not written around the idea of 'information exchanged'.

Whiskeytide

(4,461 posts)
10. That's a good point. We have had ...
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 11:55 AM
Jun 2019

... laws directed at accepting tangible rewards on the books for a long time. But we have never thought to include expressly prohibitions on accepting information from foreign actors because no one ever thought a serious - nominated - candidate would be a big enough piece of shit to do that. Here again the GOP continues to lower the bar of political decency.

C_U_L8R

(45,001 posts)
13. Not knowing the difference between right and wrong is no excuse either
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 01:57 PM
Jun 2019

Amorality. Seems to be a Trump family trait.

lark

(23,097 posts)
3. Yep, when push came to shove, he put the party apparachiks like Barr ahead of the constitution.
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 11:32 AM
Jun 2019

He is a Repug before he is an American and that totally sucks for us.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
6. I think Mueller was chosen because they knew he wouldn't go political.
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 11:38 AM
Jun 2019

He's never been political, so he wasn't going to start now.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
9. muellers fundamental problem
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 11:48 AM
Jun 2019

is that he thinks he's working in a functional system, and its NOT.

There's "no honorable gentleman from x", there's no ethics, no honnor, etc.

It's a street fight, not a carefully staged Queesnbury rules fight.
Or in trumps case he's literally using the wrestling WWE type approach.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
12. Mueller pulled his punches and he needs to be on tv under oath answering questions....
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 12:10 PM
Jun 2019

why he stopped, undue influence from Barr, the WH, why he lack of investigation of the Trump spawn and Kushner.

He did his press conference wouldn't take questions and seemed emotional worked up about something.

Seems Flynn is about to fn walk. Something stinks.

FakeNoose

(32,634 posts)
14. Mueller was stopped by Barr because he was getting too close
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 02:09 PM
Jun 2019

Isn't that obvious to everyone? If the investigation had continued Mueller probably would have found everything. As it is he found an awful lot. People are blaming Mueller for ending this, when he had no choice in the matter.

The handling of Michael Flynn is a perfect example, Flynn had way more info that Mueller would have used against Chump and Manafort, maybe Pence too. Secondly we haven't seen Part 3 about the counter espionage, and we probably never will, but things are hidden in there that answer some of the questions about Flynn and the Russians.

Peace06

(248 posts)
15. Mueller's Integrity
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 02:14 PM
Jun 2019

In the Special Counsels regulations, I believe it states that the AG is Mueller's immediate superior. I believe Barr shut down the investigation before Mueller was finished. Rosenstein, Barr, etc. knew Mueller would not talk due to his fierce apolitical stance. I believe Mueller wanted to indict and Barr/Rosenstein refused. This should have been in the report, but so far as we know, it is not. They knew Mueller would play by the rules. In my opinion, they used Muellers integrity against him. Would that surprise anyone?

Beausoleil

(2,843 posts)
16. Four main reasons
Thu Jun 13, 2019, 02:30 PM
Jun 2019

1. No charges on obstruction due to OLC opinion.

2. No charges on conspiracy mostly because of obstruction in #1.

3. No charges related to campaign finance violations because ignorance of the law is an excuse if you are a politician subject to campaign finance laws written by politicians for politicians.

4. Barr was hired specifically because of his cover-up skills in service of constitutional subversion; he could very well have stopped the investigation.

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