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Sat Jun 15, 2019, 08:54 PM

Abortion survivors ... women and girls

Maybe we need to redefine women who have had an abortion as "women abortion survivors" ... from war, rape, neglect. incest ...

Abortion survivors. Women and girls never would want an abortion except for the following reasons:
1. They have been raped, not only in our so called civil societies but, during times of war in countries where rape is a tool of war.
2. Girls are incest victims by family members including fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins.
3. Women that have no financial support from their government nor from the fathers and can't afford a pregnancy.
4. Girls are too young to bear a pregnancy that might kill them.
5. Women are drug/alcohol addicted.
6. The fetus is severely deformed and carrying this pregnancy to anything like a full term might kill the mother.
7. The woman has mental health issues.

40 replies, 1308 views

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Abortion survivors ... women and girls (Original post)
Miigwech Jun 2019 OP
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #1
Miigwech Jun 2019 #2
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #3
solara Jun 2019 #4
Miigwech Jun 2019 #7
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #8
Miigwech Jun 2019 #17
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #20
procon Jun 2019 #14
solara Jun 2019 #16
Freelancer Jun 2019 #5
Squinch Jun 2019 #6
Miigwech Jun 2019 #9
Squinch Jun 2019 #10
Miigwech Jun 2019 #25
Squinch Jun 2019 #32
marybourg Jun 2019 #11
procon Jun 2019 #12
Miigwech Jun 2019 #13
procon Jun 2019 #15
Miigwech Jun 2019 #18
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #21
Mariana Jun 2019 #19
Miigwech Jun 2019 #22
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #23
Miigwech Jun 2019 #36
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #37
Miigwech Jun 2019 #38
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2019 #39
Solly Mack Jun 2019 #24
aikoaiko Jun 2019 #26
Miigwech Jun 2019 #27
50 Shades Of Blue Jun 2019 #28
mopinko Jun 2019 #29
PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2019 #30
Caliman73 Jun 2019 #31
lindysalsagal Jun 2019 #33
Captain Stern Jun 2019 #34
loyalsister Jun 2019 #35
cwydro Jun 2019 #40

Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 08:57 PM

1. Oh good lord no. Worrying about the reasons people get abortions and saying they would "never"

want one "except" for certain reasons is a slippery slope. "Abortion survivors" makes it sound like abortions are something dangerous or to be endured. It's a routine medical procedure that's safer than carrying a pregnancy to term. Free, on demand, without apology is all we need for abortion care.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:04 PM

2. Sorry, but I disagree

The choice is very difficult. Women are not being viewed for their choice to have an abortion as doing so for realistic reasons.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:07 PM

3. The reasons you list are valid, but doesn't include the most common one:

That people choose abortion because having a baby would dramatically interfere with education, work or ability to care for other dependents. People don't want to be pregnant because of the life they would otherwise lead. That is enough.

It's also generally not a difficult choice. It is a serious one, and one that sometimes takes time, but people are generally very good at knowing their own needs.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:08 PM

4. How dare you

It is nobody and I mean NOBODY's business why a woman has an abortion. To make a list like this of "valid" or "acceptable" reasons a woman has an abortion is insulting and demeaning.

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Response to solara (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:25 PM

7. I agree with you but don't you think that women who choose abortion need our support?

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:28 PM

8. What exactly do you have in mind when you say "support"?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:05 PM

17. Well most women are made ashamed by having had an abortion

it is about time we recognize that women are blamed for a choice that is indeed the right thing to do under many circumstances often because of the sexual intrusion inflicted upon them.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:12 PM

20. Abortions of pregnancies that are the result of rape or incest comprise about 1% of abortions for

people who indicate a reason. You are deeply uninformed about why people get abortions and your rhetoric plays into the right-wing idea that people who get abortions are victims to be pitied. It's not helpful at all.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:52 PM

14. Again you're assuming women are victims

and left traumatised by the decision. Look, women make difficult medical decisions all the time, for ourselves and the people we love and care for, it's a part of life. We're tough because We have to be. We cope. We move on.

Now, why would anyone welcome interference from a total stranger? Regardless of how well intentioned, it's still none of your business to butt into someone else's personal decisions. If a woman needs support, there are many options from family, professional help, qualified support groups, etc., but not strangers.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:02 PM

16. Absolutely

But giving them our support does not mean we need to somehow justify their decision to have an abortion. Not all women experience a traumatic event or situation that "forces" them into making a decision like that. I will always support a woman who chooses abortion, but they never have to tell me why they did so.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)


Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:14 PM

6. Jesus fucking christ. Every time I think, "Maybe I'll give DU another try," I tune in and there is

some woman hating shit like this on the front page.

No, those are not the only reasons a woman might want an abortion. You know why most women who have abortions get them?

BECAUSE THEY DON'T FUCKING WANT TO HAVE A BABY.

They're not "abortion survivors" any more than you are a "vaccine survivor." It is a medical procedure. The reasons women choose it are not limited to your list outside of which you proclaim "women and girls never would want an abortion." And the reasons are none of your damn business anyhow.

Where do people come up with this crap? Don't try to control my body, and don't try to tell me the limited circumstances within which YOU think I should want to control MY body.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:31 PM

9. "Women hating shit"

????????? I think not. I hope you can see the nuance.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:37 PM

10. I hope you can see your outrageous and entitled presumption, but I am not holding my breath.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:33 PM

25. Please, I have fought for my whole life for woman's choice.

I think that if the RW will throw all their BS against women ... maybe we can throw another angle at them ... that women are in fact victims of unbridled male assault against the young, the underprivileged, the mentally deficient, the mentally ill ... we see this every day, right!

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #25)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:44 AM

32. You've insulted women throughout this thread and have been told you are doing so. In response

you have doubled down over and over and over with your ignorant, privileged, judgmental insult.

Spare me your "support." Buzz off.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:39 PM

11. Sorry, I disagree with your approach,

with your attempt to make women who’ve had abortions “survivors” of the procedure, and -especially- of your list. You’re very much on the wrong track here.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:39 PM

12. Uh... NO!

Who are you to think any woman owes you, so anyone else, an explanation for what she decides to do with her own body? Your need to "redefine women" has already been done by religious fanatics, self serving politicians, most men around the world who still king to the notion of a dominate male patriarchy, and of course, Republicans... Good company you've chosen.

You're trying to conflate a normal and legal medical procedure with some rightwing fantasy tale that equates abortion with trauma, as If women were physically attacked, or forced to do something against their will, and against all odds they survived. How Medieval can you get!

Just stop. A woman doesnt have to be pidgeonholed into the type of violent assaults as you suggest in order to decide on an abortion. Whatever her choice, it's know one's business but hers.

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Response to procon (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 09:45 PM

13. Not what said but OK

Not my idea to support a RW fantasy to equate abortion with trauma ... the trauma would come in because of laws that judge them and prevent women from getting abortions

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:02 PM

15. Just stop.

You aren't helping yourself. Every time you reply and try to whitewash what you wrote, you just sound even worse.

Just apologise for repeating Republican talking points that view woman as 2nd class citizens undeserving of full equality and incapable of making her own decisions.

Then apologize to all the women you've insulted and belittled as victims and survivors rather than a competent person capable of making sound judgements for her own life.

Then lock this ridiculous thread.

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Response to procon (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:08 PM

18. Women are victims of unwanted pregancies

for many reasons.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:13 PM

21. An unwanted pregnancy victimizes people only if abortion is difficult to access.

That's it.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:11 PM

19. "Women and girls never would want an abortion except for the following reasons:"

Wrong. Speak for yourself only, please.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:22 PM

22. Women are oftimes sexual victims and need abortions

for various reasons .. I may have only listed some of those ... think about it

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #22)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:24 PM

23. So people need to parade their trauma to earn the right to an abortion?

Only victims get abortions? People deserve abortions only out of pity? This is what you sound like.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:52 PM

36. No, not what I ment, women should never have to justify

their right to choice with their own bodies. I guess that I am not great at explaining myself. Women are victimized by choosing an abortion by the very people that want to prevent them from having that right. It seems the prolife idiots win on both ends. The various reasons for abortion are no one else's business ... but that is how we fall into the trap that the prolife people want to box us into.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #36)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 07:02 PM

37. "It seems the prolife idiots win on both ends."

Only if we let them. By focusing on people who are trying to get abortions, and removing the barriers they face, we take away the idea of a "good" or "bad" or "worthy" or "needed" or "justified" abortion.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #37)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 07:29 PM

38. Thanks for giving me a second chance at a first blunder

I feel women should never be asked to justify an abortion but I believe that if we have to fight the RW, we need to explain, over and over again, that there are so many reasons for a woman to seek an abortion. Explain it to their faces.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #38)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:09 PM

39. I hear what you're saying. It may be a good strategy for winning people over, face to face, one by

one. I do not believe it is a winning electoral strategy.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:24 PM

24. No.

Yes. I get what you're trying to say.

But it's wrong on all levels. Labeling women as a survivor of abortion plays right into the hands of those who like to claim abortion is somehow a bad thing. Something to be ashamed of and something horrible that happens to women.

Women want and need abortions for all kinds of reasons - to include because they can. Because they can and because they want it is ALL the reason a woman needs.

But the why of a woman's abortion is none of anyone's business. None. Not even a little. No need to come up with a series of horrible events in an attempt to justify why a woman has an abortion.

We know the various reasons without relying on a crime or other unfortunate issue in hopes of softening the anti-woman stance toward abortion. That plays into their hands and their framing, and gives them the power.

The anti-woman crowd don't give a fuck if a woman is the victim of anything - all they care about is punishing the woman and controlling the woman.

So, no.

No.No.No.



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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:36 PM

26. Time to step away from the thread, Miiwech.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:40 PM

27. Free speech , DU, that's why I love DU

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 10:44 PM

28. What do you call women whose consensual sex led to an unwanted pregnancy?

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sat Jun 15, 2019, 11:14 PM

29. you think declaring women you know nothing about victims is support?

support them by keeping your judgements to yourself, unless someone asks you, personally, for your pity.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:28 AM

30. Your list is incomplete.

The number one reason women want an abortion is because they do not want to be pregnant or have a child at that particular timer, but they're pregnant anyway. And calling women who've had an abortion "women abortion survivors" is insulting.

This bullshit also overlooks that fact that women have been having abortions for a very long time.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:44 AM

31. Disagree. We do not need to help conservatives stigmatize the choice.

The woman in consultation with her doctor, and whoever else she wants in her life, are making a choice as to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. They are not victims in that choice.

Women should be able to choose to carry a pregnancy to term or not for WHATEVER reason they choose and 1. It is nobody's business why; 2. We support the agency and capacity of women to make that choice.

Women are survivors of Rape, Incest, violence, etc... Sometimes the abortion is actually something that allows a survivor of those things to have a modicum of control over her body/life. Being a survivor implies that the choice/act of terminating the pregnancy was forced onto the woman. We want to acknowledge that choosing the carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate the pregnancy are both ways in which women have full control over their bodies and their lives.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:33 AM

33. Wisdom tooth extraction survivors. Appendectomy survivors. Varicose vein surgery survivors.

Ear tube insertion survivors. Colonoscopy survivors. If you substitute any other body part the term "survivor" makes no sense, just like it makes no sense when referring to a safe, legal pregnancy termination.

Another being does not have the right to take up residence in me without my consent. Parents aren't legally required to donate organs to a sick child, because one being, however large or small, developed or not, has no right to another's being.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 07:37 AM

34. 'Abortion Survivor'....that term is just silly.

And it's been explained to you why it is.

I guess I'm a 'Colonoscopy Survivor'. LOL

You said:

"Women and girls NEVER would want an abortion except for the following reasons" They you list seven reasons.

No.

There is only one reason a woman, or girl would get an abortion......they don't want to be pregnant, and have a baby. That's reason enough for her to be able to get one. The motivation behind that decision is none of mine, or yours, business.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:05 AM

35. Abortion is not a bad thing

It is usually a natural decision that has been in practice for as long as any of us have been alive.
I am unapologetically pro-abortion in the same way that I am pro appendectomy.
If a woman who has an abortion has "survived" anything, it is not the solution, but most likely the problem- pregnancy. Pregnancy is more physically risky than abortion, and preventing the physical trauma of delivery is practical if a woman doesn't want to invest a lifetime caring for offspring.
Before there was such a thing as routine surgery, appendicitis, severe dental problems, etc were often very dangerous.
But, now that they can be easily relieved, they are dealt with well before aggravating conditions become life threatening. We don't think of them as survivors, because the problem is not so dramatic.
It's no coincidence that those advancements benefit both sexes.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:11 PM

40. I can't believe I'm reading this here.

Smh.

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