man killed at costco by off duty cop was nonverbal, had intellectual disability

[Demovictory9]

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-costco-shooting-off-duty-officer-intellectual-disability-20190616-story.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/costco-shooting-corona-victim-kenneth-french-family-speaks-out-lapd-investigation-latest-2019-06-16/

Family of Costco shooting victim speaks out as LAPD investigates officer's actions

The Los Angeles Police Department is gathering evidence and video footage in an administrative investigation into an off-duty officer who shot and killed a man authorities say attacked him inside a Southern California Costco Wholesale warehouse store. Authorities remained tight-lipped Sunday, not responding to requests for comment about what provoked the Friday night confrontation and whether anyone but the officer was armed. Two others were critically injured in the shooting in Corona, which is about 40 miles east of Los Angeles.


The officer opened fire after Kenneth French, 32, of Riverside, "assaulted" him "without provocation" as the officer held his young child, Corona police said Saturday.

Bullets struck French and two of his family members, according to police. The officer was the only person who fired shots in the store, police said.

Shureih also told CBS L.A. the other two victims were French's parents, Russell and Paola French, and said they remained in an intensive care unit Sunday. Authorities have not officially released their names.

Shureih said the incident had to be a horrible misunderstanding, according to CBS L.A. He said his cousin was "never violent." He said Kenneth had "mental issues," but nothing that ever made him violent. He described Kenneth as a big guy and because of his issues he had a blank look on his face.

On Facebook, Shureih wrote: "I'm not keeping quiet about this. People need to know this is my family."

The LAPD will continue its internal probe as Corona police and the Riverside County district attorney's office conduct a separate investigation into the shooting. The LAPD said Sunday it had no further information. Corona police and the district attorney's office did not respond to requests for comment Sunday.

[rufus dog]

1. Seems like camera footage and witness accounts need to be released ASAP

Pure speculation at this point, but the story shouldn't be spun by Corona PD, while the victims are forced to defend themselves after one side of the story is told.

Video should clear this up quickly. If it was simply a large man bumping into a cop and his child in an aisle that led to a confrontation that quickly escalated into a shooting then the cop is clearly guilty.

It seems that if video/eyewitness reports collaborated the officers innocence then we would have seen/heard that.

[customerserviceguy]

2. Good to know that

there is security camera footage. Then we will all be able to see what happened. That's what I'm waiting for before making any judgments about the propriety of the officer's actions.

[rufus dog]

3. I'm with you

It is assumed that the family member is telling the truth about his cousins disability. Seems strange that someone would lie about that, but easily proven/dis proven.

We should know a lot more in the next few days.

[customerserviceguy]

4. In my mind

the disability is not relevant. If the man who was killed was clearly physically menacing the cop or his child, that would have been a reason to pull the gun out. If the sight of the weapon made no difference to the attacker, who continued to threaten them both, then the shooting is self-defense.

[rufus dog]

5. Definitely NOT with you!

And I will use my own experience. Nineteen year old on a double date, driving down the road and a beer bottle comes flying at the car. I jump out quickly followed by the driver. Kids jump out of the offending car and I am running at the passenger, the one who threw the bottle I can tell instantly something is off about him. Rather than punch him I am able to make a splits second decision to bear hug the dude. That results in the kid being able to get a couple shots into my nuts. So I slam him on to the hood of the car. Luckily a cop pulls up to the intersection and sees me with a kid in a headlock and my buddy pushing the two other guys away.

Evidence is pretty clear, beer bottles in their car, shattered beer bottle in the road and beer on my buddies car. The other kids are screaming about the dent I put in the hood of their car. Cop quickly assesses situation, sends us on our way and calls for back up to handle the other kids.

So, how can a nineteen year old, with no training, be able to make a split second decision and had I shot the kid do you really think me pulling a gun and killing a mentally disabled kid would be justified? Do you really think I wouldn't have been charged?

I really can't comprehend the cowardice of gun humpers who immediately fall back to the crutch of their gun. Truly some of the god damned wimpiest mother fuckers in the world and just pathetic. Is a large guy bumping you in a store "physically menacing?"

BTW, just heard the family is ASKING for witnesses, which leads me to believe they are seeking out the truth.

Edit to add:

Also, something always ignored by the gun humpers, what about everyone else's rights? So does everyone else in the Costco have the right to pull a gun and take out the shooter? Talk about physically menacing, some dude with a gun shooting three people in a crowded score seems to fit the definition well. Especially when two of the people shot are over 55. In this case my split second decision would be to pull a gun, but then again, I am not a fucking wimp and wouldn't pull the trigger unless the shooter turned the gun on me or someone else. And seeing the original "physically menacing" person never had a gun and I am not a fucking wimp, then the worse thing I would have done is tackle the guy. Seems like trained cop would be able to have at least the same standards as I do.

BTW, your post made me rethink my position on CCW's. I really didn't have a strong opinion, if someone feels better with a CCW, whatever, but you have me rethinking that position. If these people truly are so fucking scared that a minor altercation causes them to pull a weapon and discharge it, AND they feel that is justified, well then you lost my support.

[Honeycombe8]

7. There will be an investigation. The disability is irrelevant.....

unless the shooter knew the guy had a disability AND was harmless. Your incident is not every situation. The guy also had a child in his arms, unlike your situation.

There are always witnesses who come out of the woodwork after these incidents. What matters is evidence (tapes, physical evidence, sworn testimony).

Eye witness testimony is one of the least reliable forms of evidence, BTW. You can do the test yourself sometimes. With several people in a room, not knowing why they're there, create a crime that suddenly happens among other people who come thru the room and leave. Then ask each witness what each saw and have them describe it in detail and describe the people.

There's a 100% chance you'll get varying accounts of what happened and what the people looked like.

[rufus dog]

13. I've seen the picture of the guy - The "physically menacing dude"

I have seen a picture of the parents, again, not physically intimidating or menacing. But I don't find 60 year old's or 200 pound 32 year old's physically menacing, not nearly enough to pull a gun. Then again, I'm not a fucking wimp. Hell, call me crazy, but a 145 pound black kid carrying a Arizona Iced Tea doesn't scare me either.

I understand the cop may have been carrying his kid. So, would I have been pissed if the guy bumped me in Costco? Yup, could it be possible that I would have got in his face immediately, yes.

Would I have put down my kid, pulled a gun, shot him and shot two other people? FUCK NO!

BTW, I see you are proactively trying to disparage testimony from the potential witnesses, almost like you are afraid they won't support the cops definition of events. The person who shot three unarmed people in a crowded Costco. So taking the wimpy way out, going with the flow, and letting a person get away with a shoot because of "varying accounts" doesn't cut it for me.

I am all for giving the Cop a chance to explain the shooting. But they need to provide the evidence and be transparent.

[Honeycombe8]

6. Yes. I wonder what happened. There will be an investigation. nt

[KT2000]

8. If he is nonverbal

the description of two people arguing before they were shot, that does not make sense. A disability is relevant though. In Seattle a cop shot and killed a deaf man for not following his commands. The man never heard him.
Shooting three people in self defense sounds far fetched but we need more information about this.

When I shop at Costco, I prefer customers evade or run away from perceived threats instead of shooting at them. It makes a nicer shopping experience for us all. There are workers all over that store and they have radio contact with employees who can call the police.

[Cha]

9. I know, KT.. so far the

account of what happened doesn't make any sense.

[rufus dog]

14. pure speculation on my part

But it could have started with some type of confrontation between the Cop and 32 year old.

If the guy truly has communication issues, then maybe the father stepped in and got into an argument with the Cop.

Getting from a verbal argument to shooting three people seems like a HUGE stretch.

I'm unarmed in a Costco, I can...., pick up a Calloway driver? Gallon of liquor, blender, really trying to think what could take it to justify pulling a gun.

Again, waiting for all info to come out, but what i have seen so far is that the those shot (family) are trying to get witnesses, while the cops are silent.

[Cha]

16. It's just so weird.. shooting 3 people and one died

over an altercation in a Costco.

I know they're nothing alike but this still makes me think of Amber Guyger, who killed Botham Jean in his Apt. Because at first we didn't know the details.. just that Botham was killed by Amber because she said she thought someone was in her Apt.

And, I still don't think they know all the facts from what I've read here..

Timeline: How the case has unfolded since Dallas officer Amber Guyger killed Botham Jean

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/09/18/timeline-case-unfolded-since-dallas-officer-amber-guyger-killed-botham-jean

[uponit7771]

12. +1

[pazzyanne]

10. As a person who worked with people with disabilities, disabilities are relevant.

This guy was an off-duty cop who should have had some training in how to handle situations involving people with disabilities. I worked with some clients who were physically violent, and in almost 30 years, using techniques for interventions (not involving a gun), I was never physically harmed. Hard to say for sure what the situation was without video, but shooting 3 people seems to be an overreaction. Pulling out a gun in a store is not a good idea in my mind. Too many "cowboys" out there these days.

[OrwellwasRight]

15. How about training in de-escalation, regardless of disability or no disability?

How about not going to lethal recourse just because someone is "menacing"? If a cop can't think of a way to deal with a violent situation that doesn't involve shooting three people in the middle of a crowded Costco, he is a bad cop.

[pazzyanne]

17. Great points!

I could not agree more!

[OrwellwasRight]

18. Thanks

[customerserviceguy]

23. What if he didn't have time

to do a full psych evaluation to avoid bodily harm to his child?

Again, the video will be the deciding factor here if it is clear enough.

[Hoyt]

26. No excuse for shooting 3 people in a crowded store, none.

[customerserviceguy]

27. Perhaps the video

will confirm that view. We should wait for it before jumping to conclusions.

If it shows that the disabled man merely bumped into the cop holding his kid, then he started shooting, your position will win the day. But if it shows the disabled man menacing the cop and the kid, and even pulling a gun on him didn't stop that, and the disabled man advanced on the pair of them, it's going to go the other way.

Hopefully the video evidence is conclusive.

[Hoyt]

28. I don't care if the unarmed man raised his fist, shooting three people is excessive,

pending some really unusual circumstances.

Did you support George Zimmerman too?

[customerserviceguy]

30. I supported the idea

of Zimmerman getting a trial. If the prosecution was not sufficiently skilled to convict, then the defendant walks free, that's our system.

I hope the video reveals how the parents were shot. It will be instructive to note the amount of time between each shot fired to establish recklessness.

[Hoyt]

31. Trayvon Martin didn't get a trial when Zman grabbed his gun, stalked and intimidated an unarmed kid

then, shot him.

[customerserviceguy]

32. In extra-judicial altercations

there is no trial. For the state to deprive someone of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, there needs to be one. That's the point we're at right now.

[diverdownjt]

11. You use what you have...

If you carry a gun it's what your going to use. Carry a non-lethal option and nobody dies.
I'm with Rufus on this...If you can't use better judgement than an untrained civilian then
maybe you shouldn't carry the final solution everywhere you go.

[OrwellwasRight]

19. +1

[SammyWinstonJack]

20. +1000000!

[customerserviceguy]

25. Being as cops

on or off duty are often targets of people they've previously busted, that's why they get to pack when they're out in daily life.

Again, I think we should all wait for the video before assigning blame. Just seeing who got the worst end of it, and attaching blame to the party with the least amount of damage is how they settled guilt or innocence on schoolyard fights back in the 1960's.

[RichardRay]

21. And that's why some people shouldn't own guns...

Such as you, ‘customerserviceguy’. The first rule of self-defense: Whenever possible, run.

[customerserviceguy]

24. I don't

Anymore.

[MineralMan]

22. Costco, like other retail places, often leads to

blocked aisles, people standing where you want to be, and other frustrations. How you deal with such things depends on your mindset. Me? I generally wait until the aisle is clear, say "Excuse me, please. Could I get by?" or I turn around and go down a different aisle. What I never do is take out my frustration through confrontation. Never.

But, then, I'm not a cop who is used to ordering people to do things. I'm not a person in authority over anyone. That's not something I would ever seek to be or do.

We haven't seen video of this incident yet, but I suspect it's going to be the result of a frustrated individual with a gun, trying to bull his way through whatever the situation was. For whatever reason, that did not work out the way that was expected. If the victim, as described, was a non-verbal person with disabilities, orders wouldn't work. So, as a cop, the guy escalates, rather than turning around and taking a different route in the store.

He has a gun, after all. People do what the person with a gun tells them to do, usually. He's a cop. People do what he tells them to do because he's a cop and has a gun. That didn't happen, so he shot the people, "for my own protection."

How will this turn out? I don't know. We need to see video of the incident.

[shanny]

29. bet the shooter feels brave, and manly, and justified

fuck the police

Seriously, I've gotten to that stage. I no longer care if the majority are good guys and decent people. They prop up a bunch of bad ones and they can all go fuck themselves. What are they for, anyway? Protecting and serving? They don't. They don't stop bad shit from happening--unless you count protecting the odd bank that may have its windows broken.

Otherwise, they were invented to keep slaves under control, and they continue to exist to keep the general population under control, and protect the rich.

Fuck the police.

[LiberalFighter]

33. It has to be something very extreme for a police officer to use a firearm.

But unfortunately, they don't seem to be trained to de-escalate a situation when it is needed. Too many seem to go directly to shooting first.

[kwassa]

34. The cop will get off ...

the magic excuse of being in fear for his life. No evidence necessary. Kill citizens at will.