America's slide into fascism

[cilla4progress]

All my life, growing up, studying history and politics, I wondered - had an iintuition - as I learned about Nazi Germany and the "good Germans" who let it pass...what made them so different from Americans? Were they so different? Could it happen here.

It didn't make sense to me that we here in America were immune,
given our history of Native genocide, Black enslavement, misogyny, Japanese internment camps, turning away Jews attempting to flee Europe in the 1930s-40s, Jim Crow, and on and on.. We had our high points, but, the assumption that the unthinkable could never happen here...I wasn't buying it.

Given the right soil and nutrients, opportunistic weeds will outcompete healthy growth every time.

The question now of course is how to stop this catastrophe. I guess we must look to history around the world and glean some examples. I fear the worst is yet to come.

[BSdetect]

1. It does not take much to turn some humans into monsters.

Sadly that is still very much the case.

[zipplewrath]

2. We came close

In the great depression there were definite voices looking to move in that direction. FDR feared the politician Huey P. Long as a populist with fascist tendencies. Germans were pushed towards fascism because of overwhelming sanctions levied on them as part of the Versailles Treaty after WW I. Not sure why Italy was so susceptible.

Right now what you see here is a white majority slowly losing its privilege and reacting harshly. It gets mixed up with a conservative minority that has been losing the "culture wars" and sees authoritarianism as the only way to maintain control. And you have a ruling class that realizes that it can control the government with only the support of a minority of the population.

[cilla4progress]

4. Great concise exposition!

Now elaborate on where the "Christians" - or christofascists, as I call them - fit in . 👍 😉

[zipplewrath]

6. Losers of the cultural "wars"

And more than willing to become the "soldiers" for enforcement.

[Caliman73]

7. They fit in exactly where the other conservatives do.

You cannot call every Christian an authoritarian. There are many Protestant, Catholic, and non-denominational Christians who are liberal, aspire to the social gospel and focus on the all to be of service. There are also, as in any large body of people, conservatives who go the route of fire & brimstone, who see Christianity as a way to "control the evil impulses of humanity". They are likely to be the Christian Dominionists. They seek external control and simplification of life because they do not do well with the nuance and ambiguity of real life.

A Christian conservative is like a fiscal conservative, is like a White Supremacist conservative. They obviously vary in degrees of extremism, and their particular focus (religion, money, racial purity) is just a focus. The common streak is the conservatism which relies on hierarchy, authority, and simplicity.

[cilla4progress]

9. Totally agree, I see this too.

Once upon a time, "conservative" had a bit of a different meaning ...

https://www.conservapedia.com/Theodore_Roosevelt#Conservative_or_liberal.3F

By the way...that was a trip down the rabbit hole ("conservapedia&quot .

[Caliman73]

12. Only a "bit" though

Conservatism has ALWAYS sought to maintain the status quo regarding the structure of power and by that I mean that Conservatives are from the tradition of the monarchists, except many did not believe and accept that kings had a god given right to rule. They were more aligned with merchants who became wealthy and powerful through their actions not by birth.

Conservatives fundamentally believe in a hierarchy and they believe that the "great" (rich and powerful) deserve the right to rule by any means necessary.

[cilla4progress]

13. But isn't the alignment with fundamentalist xtianity new?

Where do libertarians* fit in with all this?



*Not LIBRARIANS, haha. We KNOW they are liberals!

[sandensea]

18. I knew one who was a real right-wing bigot, very anti-immigrant

But then, this was in Mississippi.

Not that everyone's like that down there - far from it. They definitely have a lot of that element though.

[Firestorm49]

16. "authoritarianism as the only way to retain control". Bingo! That really sums it up.

[Eyeball_Kid]

17. Fascism occurs in at least two stages. We've been awash in the first stage for decades.

If we take Mussolini's definition to heart, that fascism is the marriage between big government and big business, we can understand that fascism began to take hold during the 1980s when Reagan schmoozed the nation into selfish patriotism while he began to dismantle protections for the poor and disadvantaged. He also permitted the writing of bills by corporate lobbyists, a form of that "marriage" that was institutionalized by the Bush presidencies. Right now, we can see the overwhelming dominance of oligarchic economic structures everywhere in the economy. THAT'S fascism in an economic sense. Trailing behind, but still lethal for democracy, are the social aspects of fascism. These are now coming to the fore in the Trumpy era, and this aspect of fascism is far more visible to the common voter than "corporatism." What zipplewrath is referencing are the social aspects of fascism as if that were the only symptom, and that fascism is relatively new to the nation. In fact, this moment when fascism as a social movement is ascending nationally and internationally only means that the economic groundwork for this time was laid decades ago.

[Thomas Hurt]

3. This isn't the first time we have a brush with fascism or nationalist thuggery.

Toward the end of WWI jingoism was very high. People were getting tarred and feathered, assaulted in the streets for not buying enough war bonds or disagreeing the war.

Then you had the American Protective League. Basically private citizens working with FBI looking for German spies.

Abuses followed of course. German Americans were railroaded in the courts and of course assaulted.

[cilla4progress]

5. But, also, wasn't there a relatively strong social worker's party?

Eugene Debs and all?

[Celerity]

15. Woodrow Wilson and his horrific Espionage Act of 1917 and Sedition Act of 1918 helped end

Debs. He was convicted and sentenced to 10 years in Federal prison (he had been jailed multiple timesbefore, going back to the 1890's and the Pullman Strike) in 1918. On December 23, 1921, President Warren Harding commuted his sentence to time served, effective Christmas Day. His health was permanently ruined by then, and he died less than 5 years later.

[Wounded Bear]

8. We are certainly not immune to fascism...

Some advantages we have/had over 1920s Germany:

We are older and have stronger and more well established institutions in place. The Weimar Republic was very new. Germany had a legislative body that had been in place since establishment in the 1870's. But the Kaiser still had significant real political power until the end of WWI. The Wermacht also had immense power and supported Hitler and the Nazis as RW power brokers. Germany also had the prototypical modern Military Industrial Complex.

Repubs have been eroding the institutions supporting our democracy for decades, as you have noticed. They deride it as the Deep State. The thing is, that deep state might be the only thing that can save us. How's that for irony?

I have no faith in Christianity. We do hear reports of more liberal minded Christians being on our side, but the more vocal ones are the authoritarians. With the exception of the Soviets, RW authoritarian regimes love their religions. The sheep look to the church for guidance and political leaders exploit that.

I personally know of no instance in history where a nation overcomes deep fascism from within and returns to real democracy. Fascist Spain survived until Franco died. His brand of fascism was perhaps slightly less brutal than Hitler, but not much. Generally, those countries have to be rescued from without. So we'd be looking at a Red Dawn scenario, I guess.

I still have hope, but it is fading.

[cilla4progress]

10. Well, we certainly are a wholly owned subsidiary of

Putin's Russia.

[Bonhomme Richard]

11. "Are we any different?" The question had always fascinated me...

with regard to the Nazi's and my resounding answer is no. Growing up I was a student of WWII and I always wondered how an educated, Democratic Germany went so wrong. I never thought that we were any better than us and I finally came to the conclusion that approximately 30% of any countries population leaned tribal (the nicest way I can say it), another 30% or so floated in the middle and another 30% were open to change. Things tend to run along smoothly until a leader figures his way to power was by pandering to the "right 30% and that is typically the end of it with the demagogue going nowhere but.......add in a political power group that believes it can control the agenda while consolidating power and business groups that only see an increase to the bottom line and you have real trouble because that 30% in the middle will continue to trust the institutions they know until it is too late. Once you introduce military conflict it is all but over because now it is us vs them and society will not tolerate what it considers siding with an enemy.

[Mr.Bill]

14. I have read something on this furum that is quite profound and thought provoking:

Have you ever wondered what you would have done if you lived in Germany in the 1930s during the rise of Hitler and Nazism? You're doing it right now.

[certainot]

19. the only unique advantage the fascists have now is talk radio and all americans have to do

is stop ignoring it

boycotts of ANY advertiser on ANY rw radio station/show and protests at stations and the 88 universities that support 260 limbaugh stations will send advertisers running and will force the ad industry to ask advertisers if they really support trump and global warming denial. and when universities start looking for apolitical alternatives to broadcast sports on many of those stations will be forced to go to other programming.

this fascism has been blasting from 1500 radio stations for 30 years UNCHALLENGED by the left. as a protected unchalled 20-1 monopoly that dominates politiocal messaging in 40 states with 80- senators it operates outside the free speech spectrum. it won't survive if it's forced to compete.

artificial intelligence-enhanced transcription now makes it inevitable that talk radio wioll be digitized so it can finally be analyzed - it needs to happen NOW and the dem party and left orgs have no fucking excuse to continue the stupidity

for americans to despair over the rise of fascism while doing NOTHING about rw talk radio is very sad, especially going into this election and facing global warming acceleration - it's the biggest political mistake in history

[DallasNE]

20. We Are Sliding Into A Recession Right Now

The bottom is dropping out right now. That will bring some people to their senses quickly.

[colsohlibgal]

21. Reagan Started The Slide

His administration axed the long standing Fairness Doctrine....which paved the road for Fox News and conservative radio.

Studies have shown that prolonged viewing of Fox actually caused changes in the brains of long time viewers. You have about a third of the Nation who believe a false reality.

It amazes me to hear people praise this Evil would be Dictator who is dumb beyond belief.

[Loge23]

22. Control is their goal

They're doing a pretty good job of exercising their control too.
Everyday - everyday - we hear of more control from the illegitimate government in place.
The de facto American Gestapo - ICE - is beginning to round up the usual suspects, starting with - allegedly - migrants.

The anti-American GOP has already tilted the courts by installing scores of ultra-rightwing so-called "judges" on Federal benches, including the Supreme Court. Just yesterday we found out the (un)Justice Department intervened in a routine prisoner transfer - that prisoner being one of the co-conspirators, Manafort.
And remember good old Net Neutrality? How's your wireless internet service lately? Are you experiencing decreased bandwidth and increasing outages? If not, you will soon be joining the rest of us who already have seen this deterioration of service.
On that topic, we should also be cognizant that access to the internet is critical in these times for any organized resistance to the coup.

Are American's getting much dumber or is that too a result of something more sinister?

Control is their ultimate goal as they are acutely aware that they are not the majority. They are dependent upon duping as many of the non-committals as possible to join with the fools whom are already supporting this shitshow.

The American people let this happen. The #IPOTUS has a robust following of people who actually believe that he is the greatest president of their times. Think about that. There's no light at the end of this increasingly dark tunnel yet. Some say 2020, but the coup knows this and they will do everything they can - everything - to prevent their demise.

"The worst is yet to come"? Yes. I'm afraid so.

[lunatica]

23. I became interested in the Holocaust when I was quite young

After reading a few books about it in the 60s I could see how it could actually happen here under the right circumstances. That was in the times of anti war marches that sometimes turn into riots because Nixon decided to forcibly stop the marches. It was the time when women and Blacks marched for equality. It was the time of MLK Jr and the atrocities we saw on our daily TVs of the peaceful marches in the south broken up by water cannons, police dogs, beatings and hate.

It was easy to see how it could happen here. The only thing that surprises me now is that it has turned out to be so easy with Trump and the Republicans. They’re doing their best, and it seems their best may be good enough.

We have to stop them, or we will have to live in a fascist country.