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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » So what part of this Trum...

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:52 AM

Star Member Botany (66,694 posts)

So what part of this Trump v Iran mess do I have wrong?

1) Trump pulls out of a deal with Iran and 5 other countries that says Iran will never build a nuclear weapon, the deal
takes away anyway for Iran to make bomb grade nuclear material, and the deal gives the IAEA (International Atomic
Energy Agency [I think that is it]) the right to inspect anywhere in Iran 24/7.

2) Much of the deal was written by Ernie Moniz who has a B.S. in Physics from Boston College, a PhD in Physics from
Stanford, taught physics @ M.I.T. including nuclear physics, was chairman of the physics dept. @ M.I.T., and has 30+
years in nuclear non proliferation work. All of which made him the best in the world or one of the best in the world
to craft such an agreement to keep Iran from ever making a nuclear weapon.

3) After breaking the agreement w/Iran Trump then demands that Iran live up to that very same agreement and starts
to threaten Iran w/military action.

4) The US military flies a drone in order to spy on Iran's military over or near the border of Iran so if America should
launch an attack on Iran we would know where to strike.

5) Iran shoots down the drone and now Trump is looking to start a war?

*************
This is just insane.

39 replies, 5254 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 39 replies Author Time Post
Reply So what part of this Trump v Iran mess do I have wrong? (Original post)
 Botany Jun 2019 OP
LineReply "Trump then demands that Iran live up to that very same agreement " I think here the international
 uponit7771 Jun 2019 #1
LineReply So what part of this Trump v Iran mess do I have wrong? the putin part ...
 stonecutter357 Jun 2019 #2
LineLineReply The Putin part where Putin installed Trump as POTUS or the Putin part where Putin told ...
 Botany Jun 2019 #5
LineLineLineReply I'm gonna go with both...
 Wounded Bear Jun 2019 #20
LineReply "This is just insane."
 GoCubsGo Jun 2019 #3
LineLineReply "They're goading Iran into a war."
 Botany Jun 2019 #6
LineReply Insane is kind
 malaise Jun 2019 #4
LineLineReply What word should be used?
 Pachamama Jun 2019 #8
LineLineLineReply Like clusterfuck yet it doesn't seem to capture the
 Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2019 #9
LineLineLineReply Agree
 malaise Jun 2019 #22
LineLineReply braindead, out of control, testosterone drenched,
 mopinko Jun 2019 #25
LineLineLineReply Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
 malaise Jun 2019 #28
LineLineLineLineNew Reply my wake up shot.
 mopinko Jun 2019 #34
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Back at yah
 malaise Jun 2019 #35
LineReply Almost. You just missed the part
 Takket Jun 2019 #7
LineLineReply yeah that part.
 Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #12
LineLineLineReply You forgot the proven bogus bullshit about the attack
 malaise Jun 2019 #29
LineReply This is not meant as a criticism of the OP or its author, but it seems to me that EACH time
 Atticus Jun 2019 #10
LineLineReply I thought I covered that w/my last line.
 Botany Jun 2019 #14
LineReply You are forgetting
 BillyBobBrilliant Jun 2019 #11
LineReply Just Speculation
 DallasNE Jun 2019 #13
LineReply 1) he broke the deal because Obama made it
 underpants Jun 2019 #15
LineLineNew Reply Clustertrump...I like it.
 captain queeg Jun 2019 #39
LineReply Regarding your No. 4....
 KY_EnviroGuy Jun 2019 #16
LineLineReply You are right about the satellites .... we can take a picture of a bug's butt from space
 Botany Jun 2019 #17
LineReply I find the timing of this very suspect
 MissKat Jun 2019 #18
LineLineReply And topics
 krkaufman Jun 2019 #24
LineLineNew Reply Don't forget the G20 summit from June 28 to 29, 2019 in Japan.
 malaise Jun 2019 #36
LineReply You Got It All Right, Botany! Sooner Or Later,
 panfluteman Jun 2019 #19
LineReply You forget one thing.........Putin
 Farmer-Rick Jun 2019 #21
LineReply Sanctions ... ?
 krkaufman Jun 2019 #23
LineReply Yes, but Ernest Moniz was Secretary of Energy under B. Hussein Obama, so
 mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2019 #26
LineReply Trump says he doesn't want a war and I believe him. One of his core issues in his
 friend of m and j Jun 2019 #27
LineLineNew Reply This message was self-deleted by its author
 Chin music Jun 2019 #31
LineLineNew Reply Newcomer or not, a hearty welcome to DU.
 yonder Jun 2019 #37
LineLineLineNew Reply thank you
 friend of m and j Jun 2019 #38
LineNew Reply This message was self-deleted by its author
 Chin music Jun 2019 #30
LineNew Reply Yup.
 rlegro Jun 2019 #32
LineNew Reply Trump has absolutely no idea what he's doing
 The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #33

Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:55 AM

Star Member uponit7771 (88,271 posts)

1. "Trump then demands that Iran live up to that very same agreement " I think here the international

... community was saying to Iran they'll honor the agreement even if the US doesn't but its US sanctions that are hurting Iran the most.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:56 AM

stonecutter357 (12,459 posts)

2. So what part of this Trump v Iran mess do I have wrong? the putin part ...

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:03 AM

Star Member Botany (66,694 posts)

5. The Putin part where Putin installed Trump as POTUS or the Putin part where Putin told ...

.... Trump not to start a war with Iran?

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Response to Botany (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:48 AM

Star Member Wounded Bear (54,804 posts)

20. I'm gonna go with both...

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:59 AM

Star Member GoCubsGo (30,716 posts)

3. "This is just insane."

Yes. Yes it is.

You forgot one really big thing though: The crippling sanctions The Asshole instituted against Iran, which include sanctioning any of our allies who buy oil or otherwise do business with Iran. This is what is driving Iran to the brink, which is what the neocons want. They're goading Iran into a war. Which is insane.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:05 AM

Star Member Botany (66,694 posts)

6. "They're goading Iran into a war."

Good point. Trump is insane and he has to be stopped. Nancy P. should start impeachment
this AM.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:01 AM

Star Member malaise (252,601 posts)

4. Insane is kind

rec

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:10 AM

Star Member Pachamama (16,656 posts)

8. What word should be used?

Clusterfuck is probably a good start....



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Response to Pachamama (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:20 AM

Star Member Laura PourMeADrink (40,696 posts)

9. Like clusterfuck yet it doesn't seem to capture the

element of supreme danger to the us and the planet

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Response to Pachamama (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:05 AM

Star Member malaise (252,601 posts)

22. Agree

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:48 AM

Star Member mopinko (66,018 posts)

25. braindead, out of control, testosterone drenched,

epically ignorant, illiterate, ill considered, chaotic, demented, confused, illegal, and a threat to life on earth.
oh, yeah, and downright evil.

feel free to add to the list.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #25)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:53 AM

Star Member malaise (252,601 posts)

28. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Best laugh of the morning

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Response to malaise (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:17 AM

Star Member mopinko (66,018 posts)

34. my wake up shot.

always nice to start the day by rolling up your sleeves and taking a fat shot at donnie demento.

mornin

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Response to mopinko (Reply #34)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:25 AM

Star Member malaise (252,601 posts)

35. Back at yah

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:05 AM

Star Member Takket (18,212 posts)

7. Almost. You just missed the part

Where we crippled their economy with sanctions as punishment for following every dictate in the nuclear agreement in good faith with verifiable results.

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Response to Takket (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:25 AM

Voltaire2 (10,721 posts)

12. yeah that part.

Not only did we pull out, we turned around and imposed the sanctions on Iran that were supposed to be used if they violated the agreement.

We started this and now are all in a big upset because one of our toys was blown up either right next to or inside Iranian air space.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:54 AM

Star Member malaise (252,601 posts)

29. You forgot the proven bogus bullshit about the attack

on two ships - I swear they think we're all idiots.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:24 AM

Star Member Atticus (14,664 posts)

10. This is not meant as a criticism of the OP or its author, but it seems to me that EACH time

we try to discuss one of his near-daily insane actions, we are allowing ourselves to be distracted from the basic, known, elementary fact that TRUMP IS INSANE and our nation is in jeopardy each day he remains in power. It's almost like we are engaged in a war in which we simply observe and agonize about our opponent's cruelty without organizing any effective counter-measures.

Trump needs to "leave" ASAP. That should be our focus and any energy we expend bring outraged by his predictable craziness is wasted.

Once again---not a criticism of the OP; just my take on things.




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Response to Atticus (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:34 AM

Star Member Botany (66,694 posts)

14. I thought I covered that w/my last line.

This is just insane.

Atticus

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:25 AM

BillyBobBrilliant (747 posts)

11. You are forgetting

the part about being about raising the price of oil of a variety of reasons, none of which beneefit you or I.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:32 AM

DallasNE (7,234 posts)

13. Just Speculation

But this drone could well have been a test of the readiness of Iran's air defense system where they briefly flew the drone into and then back out of Iranian air space. That triggered a response from Iran.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:49 AM

Star Member underpants (174,432 posts)

15. 1) he broke the deal because Obama made it

Not disagreeing. Add in that this Clustertrump can’t connect its own policies let alone anticipate effects or the next reasonably expectable move on any party’s part.


Link to a link here (sorry) but everyone agrees that Trump created this problem and provoked Iran into actions....and now he blinked - that’s the nice way of saying that he got called out as a bully.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12205518

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Response to underpants (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 08:28 PM

Star Member captain queeg (8,470 posts)

39. Clustertrump...I like it.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:58 AM

Star Member KY_EnviroGuy (14,157 posts)

16. Regarding your No. 4....

Good list, Botany, but I suspect we flew the drone 100% as an intimidation, not for surveillance. We have precision satellites and high-altitude spy planes for that. It was noting but stupid, immature and expensive political game play.

The U.S. needs to be condemned and possibly sanctioned by the international community to stop this madness, in order to effectively rebuke Trump and his neocons. These actions and particularly hard military action affect people around the globe with economic and political turmoil.

I'm also aghast at the international community of Islam for not unifying and stopping this non-stop fever of conflict in the Middle East and parts of Asia. I am a dreamer.

KY........

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:04 AM

Star Member Botany (66,694 posts)

17. You are right about the satellites .... we can take a picture of a bug's butt from space

I forgot about them.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:06 AM

MissKat (217 posts)

18. I find the timing of this very suspect

Let's see...

The Democrats plan to have their debate. The date is announced.

Just ONE WEEK BEFORE this debate the tension is ratcheted up so the focus again turns all lights on--

the Orange Blunder.

He is playing the game and guess what, he's winning the "Keep the camera on me, boys" part.

this is little more than a reality show to him and he knows how to capture the camera.


Watch-- the debates are Wed. and Thurs. Just see where the cameras go.

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Response to MissKat (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:34 AM

krkaufman (13,317 posts)

24. And topics

It also alters what the focus of the questions will be, diverting focus from Trump's failing policies.

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Response to MissKat (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:29 AM

Star Member malaise (252,601 posts)

36. Don't forget the G20 summit from June 28 to 29, 2019 in Japan.

That shit with the two tankers while the Japanese PM was visiting Iran was meant to intimidate who again? That lie was squashed by the vast majority of the planet so he needed something else before the summit.

Now i'm wondering if he'll show up

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:32 AM

panfluteman (1,873 posts)

19. You Got It All Right, Botany! Sooner Or Later,

This incompetent kid in the White House, who is really just playing at being president, was bound to get into a situation that was totally over his head, a situation in which he couldn't fake it and get away with pulling lies and BS out of his ass. And this Iran situation could very well be his nemesis. CNN's Chris Cuomo did a very good op ed piece on the whole Iran mess in which he argued that not only is this whole Iran situation very dangerous geopolitically as it happens in real time, but it could also drive up gas prices, which would really hurt him at the polls; it also puts his terrible lack of judgment and executive decision making skills in stark relief for all to see, and totally blows a hole in his BS false image as the world's greatest deal maker. If he's such a great deal maker, then why wasn't he able to come up with a better deal than the Obama team? But perhaps the biggest reason concerns Trump's ego as well as his racism - he couldn't stand for a black man to get all the credit, all the glory, so he had to scrap the Iran deal as soon as he entered the Oval Office.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:56 AM

Star Member Farmer-Rick (8,042 posts)

21. You forget one thing.........Putin

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Notice Trump has done this before. Each time with a country Russia supports. And each time Trump gets closer and closer to war.

(When you use threats to control people, you have to get more and more violent for the threat to continue to work. People get use to most anything. That's why Trump gets closer and closer to war when he threatens a country.)

There was North Korea, then Venezuela and now Iran. Russia supports each of these countries. These countries turn to little man Putin to get big fat America off them.

So when Trump attacks a country verbally that is Not known to be an ally of Russia, then be afraid. The elites are getting ready to start another World War. If the country refuses to turn to the crazy little mobster in Russia for help, then bang, WWIII is on its way.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:32 AM

krkaufman (13,317 posts)

23. Sanctions ... ?

I believe you're missing that we enacted new economic sanctions on Iran after pulling out of the deal that all reliable sources say Iran was following.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:48 AM

Star Member mahatmakanejeeves (50,109 posts)

26. Yes, but Ernest Moniz was Secretary of Energy under B. Hussein Obama, so

accordingly, we throw away all the hard work.

Ernest Moniz

Ernest Jeffrey Moniz, GCIH (born December 22, 1944) is an American nuclear physicist and former United States Secretary of Energy, serving under U.S. President Barack Obama from May 2013 to January 2017.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:50 AM

friend of m and j (220 posts)

27. Trump says he doesn't want a war and I believe him. One of his core issues in his

campaigns has been to bring our troops home from where we are/have been in foreign wars. One thing I don't understand about Trump (one of about a 1000) is that Trump has fired or forced people who some of them were good people (relatively) but he won't fire the war monger Bolton. Bolton's world view and foreign policy agenda are 180 degrees from Trumps.

Trump is probably being counseled that a "little war" will be a distraction from all the problems Trump is facing from all the investigations going on. Problem is that the US has not been in a "little war" since it invaded Granada in 1983.

Bolton will get the US in a war and it won't be a "little war".

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Response to friend of m and j (Reply #27)

Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to friend of m and j (Reply #27)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:41 AM

Star Member yonder (8,376 posts)

37. Newcomer or not, a hearty welcome to DU.

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Response to yonder (Reply #37)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 12:50 PM

friend of m and j (220 posts)

38. thank you

I've been around for a little while, but compared to all the people that have been here for years, I am newcomer.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:03 AM

rlegro (305 posts)

32. Yup.

And Item 3 is the lynch pin of this whole thing. He's the master of disaster. We have lived under a continuing regime of disaster capitalism and now once again we have disaster imperialism -- for the first time, arguably, since the "Iran weapons of mass destruction" plot by Vice Dick.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:04 AM

Star Member The Velveteen Ocelot (105,518 posts)

33. Trump has absolutely no idea what he's doing

or even what he wants to do. He pulled out of the JCPOA for no reason other than that Obama negotiated it, and now Iran is a bigger problem than it was without the treaty. Bolton wants a war with Iran because Bolton always wants a war, but Trump can't start a war because Putin won't like it. So Spanky is left with nothing but impotent saber-rattling when Iran moons him.

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