General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan we take back the Betsy Ross flag?
I get it.
I was triggered by the fuss over Nike pulling the Betsy Ross flag sneakers from the market. WTF is Colin Ks deal? How can anyone lose their shit over everyones favorite iconic flag from the American Revolution waaa waaa waaa
Then I saw how the RWNJ have been using the Betsy Ross flag in their imagery and branding. We have already lost the Gadsden flag - the yellow Dont Step On Me flag is forever tainted by association with teabagger idiocy. If Nike had put a Gadsden flag on their sneakers it would have been an offensive political statement. I hate seeing the Betsy Ross flag as an offensive political statement!
Can we take it back and restore it as a symbol of hope for all - before it is irretrievably lost?
mucifer
(23,574 posts)There is so much more important stuff going on that they don't report on.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)country, sometimes good, sometimes bad. Now the US is turning into a bunch of tribes with unshakable belief structures.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)There is history, what actually happened, and why it happened, and there is myth-story, what we wish had happened.
The American revolution cannot be separated from the slave system that was the foundation of the US economy. The slave system that was the reason for the many compromises that were necessary so that the slave owning states would agree to the Constitution.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)Elizabeth Griscom Ross (January 1, 1752 January 30, 1836), née Griscom, also known by her second and third married names, Ashburn and Claypoole, was an American upholsterer who was credited by her relatives in 1870 with making the first American flag, accordingly known as the Betsy Ross flag. Though most historians dismiss the story, Ross family tradition holds that General George Washington, commander-in-chief of the Continental Army and two members of a congressional committeeRobert Morris and George Rossvisited Mrs. Ross in 1776. Mrs. Ross convinced George Washington to change the shape of the stars in a sketch of a flag he showed her from six-pointed to five-pointed by demonstrating that it was easier and speedier to cut the latter. However, there is no archival evidence or other recorded verbal tradition to substantiate this story of the first American flag. It appears that the story first surfaced in the writings of her grandson in the 1870s (a century after the fact), with no mention or documentation in earlier decades.
Ross made flags for the Pennsylvania navy during the American Revolution. The flags of the Pennsylvania navy were overseen by the Pennsylvania Navy Board. The board reported to the Pennsylvania Provincial Assembly's Committee of Safety. In July 1775, the President of the Committee of Safety was Benjamin Franklin. Its members included Robert Morris and George Ross. At that time, the committee ordered the construction of gunboats that would eventually need flags as part of their equipment. As late as October 1776, Captain William Richards was still writing to the Committee or Council of Safety to request the design that he could use to order flags for their fleet.
Ross was one of those hired to make flags for the Pennsylvania fleet. An entry dated May 29, 1777, in the records of the Pennsylvania Navy Board includes an order to pay her for her work. It is worded as follows:
An order on William Webb to Elizabeth
Ross for fourteen pounds twelve shillings and two
pence for Making Ships Colours [etc.] put into William
Richards store .£14.12.2
The Pennsylvania navy's ship colors included (1) an ensign; (2) a long, narrow pennant; and (3) a short, narrow pennant. The ensign was a blue flag with 13 stripesseven red stripes and six white stripes in the flag's canton (upper-left-hand corner). It was flown from a pole at the rear of the ship. The long pennant had 13 vertical stripes near the mast; the rest was solid red. It flew from the top of the ship's mainmast, the center pole holding the sails. The short pennant was solid red, and flew from the top of the ship's mizzenmastthe pole holding the ship's sails nearest the stern (rear of the ship).
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It's just another case of stupid conservatives getting their underwear in a bunch over mythology.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)underwear in a bunch over mythology."
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)Boxerfan
(2,533 posts)When I first heard I was ??
But i thought about it-the flag represents the original 13 colonies. Aka colonialism & the desecration of the existing peoples & environments.
Now that I know the wingers are using it it makes even more sense to dump it.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Just the other day, I saw an elaborate sign referring to a Revolutionary War battle, and it had both the Betsy Ross flag and the British Union Jack on it. That's history, and no amount of whitewash will change that. We need to stop papering over the things in historical times that we're clearly more enlightened about today.
And I'm going to use the "OK" sign any damn time I want, to mean something it's meant for decades, if not centuries.
Response to needledriver (Original post)
Freelancer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Crunchy Frog
(26,659 posts)I don't agree that the Betsy Ross flag is inherently a hate symbol, or that it stands for racism and slavery.
The only reason it would become such is that we surrender it to the right wing, and I, personally, have no intention of doing that. I don't think we should concede the Gadsden flag either.
I think that Nike made an appallingly bad decision to put the flag on a shoe in the first place, but the way they've handled the aftermath has been even worse.
They've basically handed the RW red meat on a silver platter, and they are going to milk it for all it's worth, and benefit from it politically.
From some of the accusations flying around here lately, I'm as good as advocating waving a swastika around or burning a cross on somebody's lawn, but no, I don't think we should just surrender our national symbols to a bunch of fascists.
Rant over, and waiting for the accusations.
jpak
(41,760 posts)Because they OWN trump - and got nothin'
yup