General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsClever Pelosi....
First, the resolution which will explicitly call Donald Trump a racist makes clear to the average nonpolitical American that Trumps words really are racist. This matters, because the people in the middle generally sit back and wait for one side or the other to spell these kinds of things out for them.
Second, this resolution forces House Republicans to vote yes or no on whether Donald Trump is a racist. Most will vote that Trump is not a racist, and that can then be used against them when they run for reelection in 2020. A few House Republicans might vote that Trump is a racist, in an attempt at protecting their reelection prospects, but thatll prompt Trump to begin attacking them. Either way, this forces the GOP to reckon with Trumps racism.
Fullduplexxx
(7,873 posts)"First, the resolution which will explicitly call Donald Trump a racist makes clear to the average nonpolitical American that Trumps words really are racist"... if they didnt know it by now nancy's non binding bill isnt going to convince them . They wont believe those words are racist just because of a vote on a what will be called a stunt or political theater.
2nd they can vote present or no ... much like theyre doing now . It will make little difference to those voting for them
Nancy might be clever but this has the feel of i'll do something to make people forget about the big something im Not doing anything about
myohmy2
(3,187 posts)...hmmm, could be...
...
...
Cha
(297,888 posts)...you ever considered that you might be wrong?
...
Cha
(297,888 posts)myohmy2
(3,187 posts)...
DENVERPOPS
(8,869 posts)Trump found yet another soft spot and pushed. Another week of him stealing the news from all the shit the Republicans are doing........ The louder the protests get, the harder he pushes, the more he draws away from what truly matters.
The Dems bravado about "this is really gonna get him" is a moot point. He doesn't give a shit, don't you get it.
He is losing all these "petty ass" battles, and totally winning the war for the Repubs.
The dems are walking down the jungle path, swatting at mosquitoes, while totally oblivious to the herd of
charging Elephants.......(pardon the pun)
He is performing the Republican Party's goals supremely. Divert attention so we can get all our stuff done in the background.
Besides, his 40+% of people hang on his every word and it speaks to them and their thinking......
He's not addressing the entire population, his only aim is to keep re-enforcing his racism to his followers and could give a rat's ass about the rest of us.
When watching the presidential debates, Trump vs Clinton, my son said: "Clinton won, he didn't go any good"
I corrected him and said: "He accomplished exactly what he intended to do, he repeatedly hammered home HIS talking points, to HIS crowd, over and over again........"
DENVERPOPS
(8,869 posts)Wow, today all the Repubs are suddenly all in on Trump's new level of racism........
As I mentioned above: Trump found yet another soft spot and pushed. Another week of him stealing the news from all the shit the Republicans are doing........ The louder the protests get, the harder he pushes, the more he draws away from what truly matters.
Now all his administration and Republican Politicians are all jumping in with both feet on Trump's racial ranting.
He found a sweet spot, totally diverting ALL news from Epstein, etc etc etc and the Repubs are overjoyed
at his most recent new found way to divert media attention from the real stuff.
AND OF COURSE, ONCE AGAIN, THE DEM'S FALL FOR HIS SHIT, BAITING THEM FOR THE 1,00TH TIME, HOOK LINE AND SINKER AND WE ARE OFF TO THE RACES......
When will the Dems learn???????????? They are being played. IGNORE TRUMP'S SHIT, stick with the Kids, Epstein, Mueller, the Republican Senator's actions, etc etc etc.
He is performing the Republican Party's goals supremely. "Divert attention so we (republicans) can get all our stuff done in the background and shadows".......
LiberalFighter
(51,226 posts)Voters are not all going to vote for candidate A no matter what they are told. Stuff like this does make a difference.
Cary
(11,746 posts)It isn't helpful. It isn't justified by facts. It also plays into "conservative" stereotypes of us and encourages them to try to exploit our weaknesses.
One would think we might have learned this in 2016.
Thekaspervote
(32,813 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)and illustrate it nothing more than an emotional reaction rather than a logical reponse.
Best thing to do is dig in, and continue pretending that reading tea leaves is more nutritious than objevtive data and facts.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)Pelosi won't do the one thing I want her to do, so anything else she does is meaningless.
Fullduplexxx
(7,873 posts)DownriverDem
(6,232 posts)I support Nancy. Nancy knows what she is doing. Too many folks don't know how it works. History will note this bill.
Cha
(297,888 posts)Nitram
(22,932 posts)anything about." Absolutely WRONG! Pelosi has a long game that those with short attention spans fail to appreciate.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)It will also make no difference to the creature and his minions behaviour...Its all words, nothing else. Enough of this nonsense, impeach the bastard now.
I know this will not fly well with many people, but I sometimes feel like these useless actions are meant to pacify Democratic supporters, for supporters to say "Ahhh, they are moving forward, they are setting up the stage" for what they are setting the stage I have no idea. Pelosi and the others who come up and support these actions have to know they mean nothing, that neither the creature or his minions don't even pay attention to them, the evil clan just moves forward through their agenda untouched, unscathed.
I would like to know what the effect of the contempt that was issued against Barr and McGhan produced...Does anyone know? I believe they laughed it off. That Barr tried to stall Pelosi and Nader from issuing it was nothing but strategical, he just needed to pretend it worried him.
I don't know what is going to happen, but unless impeachment proceedings begin I fear the worst. I am so wanting to be wrong.
And before someone comes up that "Pelosi will not impeach because the Senate will not follow through...blah, blah." I just have to respond:
1. No one knows what the Senate will do when all the information comes out.
2. If that is a major fear, then read Laurence Tribe's article, the findings do not need to be sent to the Senate, the important thing is the Dems will get all the information they need, Muller report (unredacted), tax returns, trump org documents, his children's records, and whatever they want. There will be public hearings, emolument criminal actions will be shown, rape, abuse of power, obstruction of justice, etc. etc.
How can all of that be bad for Democrats? Is there something out there that we don't know that may be preventing Pelosi from moving forward? Is there some hidden strategy that doesn't involve 2020, or what?
mudstump
(342 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)DownriverDem
(6,232 posts)History. That will help.
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)the_sly_pig
(741 posts)Lets see how many of us will repeat mountain grannys one word response!
ihaveaquestion
(2,571 posts)She is being out-flanked by the propagandist-in-chief! Pelosi must start impeachment proceedings ASAP! Nothing else will get the attention needed.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)proActivist
(75 posts)I don't think so. Dotard isn't a propagandist, he's a puerile bully, and Pelosi's action makes that apparent.
Pelosi knows what she's doing and she's playing a long game.
Thekaspervote
(32,813 posts)Perseus
(4,341 posts)You must look at it, cartoonists, authors have a way to tell the future. I just hope Tom Tomorrow is wrong though.
[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212282193|
proActivist
(75 posts)- too tendentious. Just my opinion.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)I have seen this happen somewhere else in the World, the opposing party there did the same...blah, blah, blah...posting letters demanding this/that, they were all ignored and now the country is in shambles under a dictatorship they can't get rid of, people are being tortured and killed, people I know have been killed in plain daylight, no medicines, no food, no freedom, while the regime gets fatter and wealthier.
Things happen very quick, and when the people who did not believe it could happen there finally realize it, then it is too late. I have seen it happen, I know the routine, and the creature and his minions are moving fast and not loosing a step.
myohmy2
(3,187 posts)...
...
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)ihaveaquestion
(2,571 posts)No one thought he would be president, but here we are.
pazzyanne
(6,560 posts)NYC Liberal
(20,138 posts)House passes impeachment articles.
McConnell will not hold a trial.
Nothing happens.
ihaveaquestion
(2,571 posts)Impeachment gets the un-redacted Mueller report. That's not nothing!
It also proves to voters that Democrats aren't wimps. Why should we vote for someone who won't stand up for our values?
I don't care if the repugsters don't vote him out or not. I care about the actions of MY representatives.
Tarc
(10,478 posts)triron
(22,028 posts)Trump will lose sleep tonite I'm sure NOT.
mcar
(42,426 posts)A smart move. Ignore the haters.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)and the elected Republicans don't mind it at all either. A strongly worded, nonbinding resolution will not force the GOP to reckon with Trumps racism.
proActivist
(75 posts)the resolution will put GOP reps on the spot, and that will help out in 2020 and in 2022.
I don't know why we shouldn't do it. Can't hurt.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)proActivist
(75 posts)SharonClark
(10,014 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Once its done, it will no longer be in the daily news. If the timing isnt right, in a year, it, too will be a blip.
pazzyanne
(6,560 posts)Thekaspervote
(32,813 posts)Perseus
(4,341 posts)And he resigned, otherwise it could have taken much longer. Clinton's also lasted a little more than two (2) years.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Neither impeachment was anything close to two years.
Nixons impeachment inquiry was approved in February 1974 and the first hearing was held in May of that year. He resigned in August.
Clintons impeachment inquiry was opened in October 1998, he was impeached in December, and acquitted in January 1999 - three months from start to finish.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)The investigations started in 1997.
For Nixon, the pre-Watergate investigation began in 1972. You are correct that the actual impeachment began in the dates you pointed out, but the investigations had began much earlier.
In the creature's case, no real investigation has taken place, besides the Muller report of which we know little about because of all the redacted information, and what it seems Barr stopped from being investigated which seems to be the counterintelligence part of it, so I think the creature's impeachment process will last over two years.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)were interested in hearings, etc.
If the house passes impeachment, McTurtle will put it the bill under his desk where it will stay for all time. The Senate (as of now) will do nothing.
George II
(67,782 posts)....any Democrat would not like to see this.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)murielm99
(30,779 posts)Their votes will show the American people whether or not Republican congress people condone racism. If they vote against this, it can be used against them to show that they are racist. Keeping the word "racist" in the forefront is important.
This is an important step. I can't believe there are so many people screaming, "Impeach!" The time may come that we are ready for that, but not yet. And if it does, I fully expect violence. Trump will tell them to behave violently.
trev
(1,480 posts)If this is all we can eke out of the House, then let's at least do it.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,437 posts)Celerity
(43,645 posts)Factual Reporting: MIXED
Notes from Dave Van Zandt: The Palmer Report is a news and opinion blog/website created by Bill Palmer the former writer and owner of Daily News Bin. The Palmer Report is typically well sourced and usually points to credible sources. However, there is a very strong liberal bias in reporting and story content. The Palmer Report uses loaded words and sensational headlines that dont always reflect the content of the article. An example headline is as follows: Donald Trumps demented Happy New Year tweet is the worst thing youll read all year. The Palmer Report has been criticized by the Slate for publishing misinformation. Palmer Report also has false and unproven claims according to Snopes, which Mr. Palmer calls the National Enquirer.
From the well respected Atlantic regarding fake news: Its more wish-fulfillment stuff. Trump About to be Arrested! Well, yeah, whens that gonna happen? And we know its coming from the left because I know its coming from known players. Bill Palmer used to run the Daily News Bin, and it was basically a pro-Hillary Clinton news site. It was out there to counter misinformation. Which, okay, fair enough. But then he started to reinvent it as a news site, more and more, and he changed the name to the Palmer Report. The stuff that he puts out there, its nominally true. When you click on it, its some innocuous story [with an outlandish headline]. That is very harmful, I think.
Here is a list of additional False and Misleading Claims:
https://www.snopes.com/jared-kushner-go-saudi-arabia-doesnt-extradition-treaty-us/
https://www.snopes.com/russia-kompromat-jason-chaffetz/
https://www.snopes.com/denis-voronenkov-paul-manafort/
https://www.snopes.com/trump-staged-speechwriting-picture/
(11/25/2016) Updated (D. Van Zandt 1/29/2018)
Notes from Dennis Kelley: The Palmer Report (TPR) is a liberally biased news site / blog that deals more in confirmation bias than in actual reporting. Confirmation bias generally consists of taking a set of facts, often unrelated, and building a web of conjecture around them in order to present a specific point of view as opposed to the actual facts. While confirmation bias may not be, technically, fake news, the sensational nature of this type of reporting often does more harm than good. Mr. Palmer has been criticized for inaccurate reporting in his work by other fact and bias checking sites, both for his work on Daily News Bin and on TPR, as evidenced by the entries on this list from Snopes, as well this article from the The Atlantic. Although TPR does contain some factual content, the misleading and biased way in which it is presented earns TPR a Questionable rating. (D. Kelley 4/3/17)
Update: 3/31/17: Mr. Palmer has republished his false report regarding Media Bias Fact Check from Daily News Bin to the Palmer Report. You can read our response here.
Update 4/18/17: Mr. Palmer wrote another false and libelous article about Media Bias Fact Check. Here is our response. His consistent false reporting on MBFC without evidence to support his claims dictates that we move the Palmer Report to our Questionable Source list due to lack of sourced evidence, numerous false and unproven reports from fact checkers and extreme bias in reporting.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)It's an opinion piece, and nothing more. Unless it's untrue that the Speaker will hold a vote, it's merely an observation of what's happening in The House with nothing else to fact check. Given that, I miss your point.
It's an observation I happen to agree with.
Celerity
(43,645 posts)Mensch in terms of credibility.
Sorry, not a fan of divvy confirmation bias claptrap such as TPR.
proActivist
(75 posts)Not sure how all that is relevant in this particular case. The first paragraph is an unremarkable summary of the widely reported facts. Nothing fake. The following paragraphs are some junior level analysis, which, whatever your own opinion, certainly isn't outlandish or fringe in the least.
So what's the point?
Celerity
(43,645 posts)proActivist
(75 posts)misleading click bait headlines and distorted, one sided reporting. You mentioned TPM and that is, often enough, a good example.
Another example might be Seth Abrams, who, unfortunately, I see frequently quoted on DU.
I don't know anything about the Palmer report and I'm sure you are right in general. This particular snip does not seem to show them at their worse.
Keep calling out those who do not act with intellectual integrity! I'm with you on that!
Celerity
(43,645 posts)Palmer posted some fundamentally flawed SCOTUS/election analysis back 2 plus years ago and when I called him out in the comments section (with full documentation) he told me to fuck off, blocked me, then took the whole exchange down.
He is a dodgy tosser.
proActivist
(75 posts)I've never heard of the palmer report, so "TPM" is talking points memo to me.
The palmer report sounds like bad news!
I enjoy reading talking points memo, but I am always very wary because I find it to be tendentious.
(I'm going to have to google "dodgy tosser". But it can't be a good thing ! )
Celerity
(43,645 posts)Celerity <<<<<<<< London raised
proActivist
(75 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,060 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)SCVDem
(5,103 posts)a Catch 22 !
IOW gotcha M Fer!
calimary
(81,557 posts)Even with the make em vote on it, the bad guys wont give a flying fig about it.
No. Cut the crap and begin impeachment hearings! Besides, once that step is formally begun, it opens up the doors to forcing A) reluctant witnesses to testify and B) documents previously withheld to be coughed up.
proActivist
(75 posts)However impressing you, me or DU isn't the point of the resolution.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)Wow, a letter/resolution has been submitted, and like him, I will also be impressed when impeachment proceeding begin. Not sure if that was calimary's feel about it, but it was mine.
I am done with letters, and TV interviews with hard words that do not follow real action. There are people who have been subpoenaed and they have not complied, we don't hear about them anymore, and in the mean time the creature gets worst by the day, empowered because he feels, justifiably, that no one will come after him and that his party will support him forever.
Didn't Nader go on TV and said that Don Jr is going to appear, "and we will find out everything we need, he will answer our questions", then Don Jr sent a list of questions he would not answer, a time limit, in other words he came for a show and to waste Congress' time, and that of Democratic followers who were looking forward to the results of the interview, Democratic voters were impressed until then.
I understand what you say, but Pelosi and Co. are supposed to impress us by being tough, by making sure the rule of law is respected, by bringing accountability to the creature and his minions, by enforcing subpoenas, by ending this nightmare.
Yes, by all means, impress us all, even the opposing party.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,437 posts)It doesn't work that way. You lead or you follow. If you don't want to lead, then you defer to other leaders. But you make a mess if you try to do both.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)Keen observation. Glad Ms Pelosi is on our side.
rlegro
(338 posts)In neurolinguistics, it is common to regard grammatical negatives such as "not" to be incomprehensible to brains that are wired to sense things, rather than no-things. So when Republicans react to the resolution by insisting Trump is "not" a racist, what the brains of listeners process is that Trump is a racist. Intellectually the message is clear; subliminally it's just the opposite. This is also why Richard Nixon's famous "Well, I'm not a crook" line didn't work out so well.
Chemisse
(30,820 posts)Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)He's gonna get his knuckles locked from so much tweeting.
Turbineguy
(37,386 posts)a strongly worded letter.
ecstatic
(32,760 posts)Beginning an impeachment inquiry is the only thing Nancy has the power to do. It's crucial for the history books and the integrity of this country going forward. If not now, when? Just erase the shit from the constitution, FFS.
I'm so disappointed by her choice to play politics instead of doing the right thing.
I'm NOT impressed by all the bills to nowhere that are being churned out "like a factory."
PCIntern
(25,619 posts)Mike Niendorff
(3,463 posts)... if they did the same thing with impeachment.
Forced the Republicans to go on record.
Then forced them to defend that record in the general election.
Imagine that.
MDN
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)A mild slap on the wrist at best. This is not a normal President these are not normal times.
Twitler likely wont lose sleep over this. The Republicans went after Clinton for lying about sex harder that we are over this evil lawless would be dictator who is alienating our long time Allies and cozying up with brutal dictators.
lastlib
(23,352 posts)If they don't vote, no record on them. Then it's a "partisan smear job by Dems".......of course, then we can smack 'em with the "coward" tag. We shall see.....
paulkienitz
(1,296 posts)who get really defensive and irritated when they start hearing "racist" thrown around as an accusation. Unfortunately that group is larger than the GOP and might be a majority of the electorate.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)The Squad's presser was more helpful than this.
murielm99
(30,779 posts)The whining about it is predictable.
Thekaspervote
(32,813 posts)KPN
(15,670 posts)TheFarseer
(9,328 posts)Go after Trump for his lack of decorum again? Why? His supporters like his lack of decorum. Its incredibly weak so lots of Dems are annoyed. Republicans are going to turn this into a contest of who loves America and who hates America and our idiot media will run with that. Then the media will note how Pelosi was hammering those same Congress people last week and say its hypocrisy. Nothing about this will work. Its silly Washington games that turn most voters off.
progressoid
(50,008 posts)Trump still has relatively decent approval numbers. Playing his game isn't a winning endeavor.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)in, say 1950? Maybe up to the 70s? I mean Nixon resigned right?
That is one of my fundamental issues with the current top dems: They do NOT get the new power dynamic, they're dinosaurs in the new game. Like it or not a few tweets can win over a "strongly worded letter" etc.
That doesn't mean you abandon rules etc - it's just that you have to be smarter about the whole battlefield.
Raster
(20,998 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Only if the media including Fux reports it; over and over again.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)And essay by
Barry Eisler
https://www.amazon.com/Ass-Poor-Receptacle-Head-Communication-ebook/dp/B0050O7VLW/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=%E2%80%9CThe+Ass+Is+A+Poor+Receptacle+For+The+Head%3A&qid=1563305297&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Thekaspervote
(32,813 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,112 posts)still_one
(92,482 posts)Nitram
(22,932 posts)Go Pelosi!
orangecrush
(19,655 posts)HIM OUT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
Mazeltov Cocktail
(569 posts)Resist. Impeach. Convict.
The time has passed for this pathetic resolution.
awesomerwb1
(4,269 posts)but do you really think they'll find 67 votes in the senate to convict?
Not sure they'd have enough votes to impeach in the House at this rate.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)It is not important to even send it to the Senate, the goal of opening impeachment proceedings is to get all the information they need, to force people to testify, to have all this information in the open because the impeachment process will be public.
Mazeltov Cocktail
(569 posts)If needs to happen. Now.
Thekaspervote
(32,813 posts)Doesnt mean she has a magic wand to wave. Get real
awesomerwb1
(4,269 posts)malaise
(269,237 posts)Fuck off Racist in chief
Thekaspervote
(32,813 posts)Fullduplexxx
(7,873 posts)Racist... actually no ... nancy said to the ap . This was not a vote to say trump was racist just that his words were. So they arent on record saying even that
ihaveaquestion
(2,571 posts)I'll admit is was satisfying to see the Democrats actually do something, but what did it do in the long run? I don't see it.
Pelosi must impeach NOW to have any lasting effect!