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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 02:46 PM Jul 2019

Jennifer Rubin nails it - and us

Mueller didn’t fail. The country did

I worry that we — the media, voters, Congress — are dangerously unserious when it comes to preservation of our democracy. To spend hours of airtime and write hundreds of print and online reports pontificating about the “optics” of Mueller’s performance — when he confirmed that President Trump accepted help from a hostile foreign power and lied about it, that he lied when he claimed exoneration, that he was not completely truthful in written answers, that he could be prosecuted after leaving office and that he misled Americans by calling the investigation a hoax — tells me that we have become untrustworthy guardians of democracy.

The “failure” is not of a prosecutor who found the facts but might be ill equipped to make the political case, but instead, of a country that won’t read his report and a media obsessed with scoring contests rather than focusing on the damning facts at issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/25/mueller-didnt-fail-country-did/
83 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Jennifer Rubin nails it - and us (Original Post) StarfishSaver Jul 2019 OP
Hammer, meet nail DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #1
It's the media... GeorgeGist Jul 2019 #2
It's "we" - otherwise the media wouldn't have any effect StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #4
I could not agree more with your statement. watoos Jul 2019 #13
The problem is that the media today is not the media of the 1960's LiberalFighter Jul 2019 #24
Correct, theyre focused on their ratings & sensationalizing onetexan Jul 2019 #40
And focused on one more big thing Kaiserguy Jul 2019 #41
Yup. K/R moondust Jul 2019 #3
We have entered a zone of a "new normal". kentuck Jul 2019 #5
Yet Trump obstructed what? A witch hunt? Why? triron Jul 2019 #7
Mueller could not find guilt or innocence or exoneration due to the OLC memo... kentuck Jul 2019 #15
Yes. It's on Congress now. Qutzupalotl Jul 2019 #38
Trump obstructed an investigation. It doesn't matter on what. Caliman73 Jul 2019 #22
DUers are more astute than the average American. We know Mueller's position. YOHABLO Jul 2019 #37
Rubin's sentiments are similar to mine. triron Jul 2019 #6
K&R brer cat Jul 2019 #8
A failure to recognize the reality of most Americans Brawndo Jul 2019 #9
That's the sad truth. Captain Stern Jul 2019 #35
The M$M is why Dems always fight a head wind. watoos Jul 2019 #10
Dems in Congress need to work the refs more uponit7771 Jul 2019 #16
They can work the refs all they want NewJeffCT Jul 2019 #25
Read your news jayschool2013 Jul 2019 #18
I tend to agree. It's free Enterprise. If people werent Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #27
She sure does mcar Jul 2019 #11
This should be on every front page, including here on DU. JudyM Jul 2019 #12
"voters" by far weren't the onus in the situation uponit7771 Jul 2019 #14
Unless something happens... Catch2.2 Jul 2019 #17
Agree. Guess that's what the author is getting at? Hard to tell Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #45
What "consequences for crimes" do you think Congressional Dems can inflict ehrnst Jul 2019 #52
How about Catch2.2 Jul 2019 #55
OK... ehrnst Jul 2019 #56
I disagree Catch2.2 Jul 2019 #58
So you don't have any actual data to back up your claim about FoxNews as being watched by ehrnst Jul 2019 #59
Here you go Catch2.2 Jul 2019 #60
Nope. None of those links state what you claimed: ehrnst Jul 2019 #61
Whatever Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #62
You stated..."a majority of the population watches FoxNews." ehrnst Aug 2019 #63
except that... Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #65
YOU said, "A majority of the population watches FoxNews" ehrnst Aug 2019 #66
Lol! Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #67
You're welcome! ehrnst Aug 2019 #69
No, no , no Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #71
Yes, yes, yes... ehrnst Aug 2019 #73
and let me say Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #72
Nice try. ehrnst Aug 2019 #74
Nope Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #75
Actually, I'm right and you're wrong. ehrnst Aug 2019 #77
So just to get this straight... Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #78
"I said the majority of the population watches Fox News." ehrnst Aug 2019 #79
Just to get this straight Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #80
You responded to a two week old post to tell someone else to "stop spending time trying to "win" ehrnst Aug 2019 #81
and yet here you are Catch2.2 Aug 2019 #82
Tag ur it. ehrnst Aug 2019 #83
What sickens me is that our Democratic Mr.Bill Jul 2019 #19
Which ones? (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #57
I'm ready. A work strike until this conspirator is brought to justice! ffr Jul 2019 #20
THIS crimycarny Jul 2019 #21
Preview of impeachment hearings. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #23
This piece was the first thing I posted on Facebook early this morning. greatauntoftriplets Jul 2019 #26
Yep. Democracy is ours to lose....and we just might. spanone Jul 2019 #28
She did nail it, Progressive dog Jul 2019 #29
Necessity is the mother of invention... stillcool Jul 2019 #30
What disheartens me the most is that we don't have thousands protesting, everywhere. CaptainTruth Jul 2019 #31
Maybe you could help organize a protest in your community? StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #32
Not thousands. millions. triron Aug 2019 #70
The media cater to and create a spoiled, juvenile view of the world. gulliver Jul 2019 #33
what? Were is the 'us' part and then there is this: Kurt V. Jul 2019 #34
Stay vigilant eom Cetacea Jul 2019 #42
Agree. Think that's the crux of the article, among other Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #46
"a media obsessed with scoring contests" Martin Eden Jul 2019 #36
The conservative has it partly right. Cetacea Jul 2019 #39
There is a summary out there treestar Jul 2019 #48
Are you referring to Bob Reiner's excellent video summary? Cetacea Jul 2019 #50
That sounds good too treestar Jul 2019 #53
I saw that. Cetacea Jul 2019 #54
Back in the sixties once I was watching Gilligan's Island on TV and my Dad came in from work at NASA pecosbob Jul 2019 #43
True - and don't even get me started about the inability to make or calculate change. StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #44
All true...but how could it be changed? As long as they Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #47
That's the crux pecosbob Jul 2019 #51
An apology I owe Mueller saidsimplesimon Jul 2019 #49
I agree Mueller was honorable. Rosenstein turned out to be a real turd though. NCLefty Aug 2019 #68
We can't overestimate the influence of subversive and venal Hortensis Aug 2019 #64
as john oliver calls it. stupid watergate. nixon covered it up, + was uncovered. the moron pansypoo53219 Aug 2019 #76
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
4. It's "we" - otherwise the media wouldn't have any effect
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 02:50 PM
Jul 2019

And if you just look at DU posts from the past 30 hours, you'll see it's not limited to the media.

LiberalFighter

(51,276 posts)
24. The problem is that the media today is not the media of the 1960's
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 04:04 PM
Jul 2019

The media is in the hands of fewer and fewer compared to the 60's. In the hands of those that don't give a crap about America.

Kaiserguy

(740 posts)
41. And focused on one more big thing
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 08:18 AM
Jul 2019

Money and that is the real problem because high ratings and sensationalizing makes them money. As the head of CBS said Trump maybe bad for America but he is good for CBS. Todays media is all about corporate profits.

kentuck

(111,111 posts)
5. We have entered a zone of a "new normal".
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 02:54 PM
Jul 2019

Most Republicans believe that Trump committed obstruction by trying to get McGahn to fire Mueller and then trying to force him to create a false document about it. It is a serious breach of our laws. But it doesn't matter in the "new normal".

triron

(22,029 posts)
7. Yet Trump obstructed what? A witch hunt? Why?
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:03 PM
Jul 2019

Mueller admitted yesterday the Trump campaign's persistent lying, covering up, etc. was indicative
of guilt. Yet Mueller didn't find them guilty.

kentuck

(111,111 posts)
15. Mueller could not find guilt or innocence or exoneration due to the OLC memo...
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:13 PM
Jul 2019

..and his restricted mandate of the Special Counsel.

The way he understood it and the way he testified yesterday, the only thing he could do was present the facts. He could not indict or make any statement about the guilt or innocence of Donald Trump.

Caliman73

(11,760 posts)
22. Trump obstructed an investigation. It doesn't matter on what.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:33 PM
Jul 2019

Mueller's position was not to determine guilt or innocence. You are confusing an investigator/prosecutor, with a judge or jury. Mueller's job was to gather evidence and make a report.

You can certainly disagree with how the report was presented. There are certainly questions about decisions that Mueller made about the direction of the investigation.

It wasn't Mueller's job to determine guilt. He was not given the power to determine guilt. He had no power to prosecute, which is why he handed off prosecution to other jurisdiction.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
37. DUers are more astute than the average American. We know Mueller's position.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 10:48 PM
Jul 2019

It's up to congress to prosecute Trump. Let the proceedings continue. IMPEACH !

triron

(22,029 posts)
6. Rubin's sentiments are similar to mine.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 02:59 PM
Jul 2019

Americans want to be mindlessly fed bullshit by corporate media which is all to willing to oblige.
They don't want to be disturbed about 'trivia' such as losing our democracy to a despot and it's ok
to invite an adversary to attack our elections to determine the party in power for us.

Brawndo

(535 posts)
9. A failure to recognize the reality of most Americans
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:05 PM
Jul 2019

Most Americans did not and will not read the Mueller report. Like it or not that is a fact. They absolutely SHOULD read it but they won't. So, given that sad reality how do you counter that in order to educate the public? Through political theater and appeals to emotion (spectacles if you will). Public education has been defunded and assailed to the point where civics aren't a priority. The result is a reality TV driven society that requires bright and shiny objects to command attention. I don't agree with it but that is the reality.

If you want to educate and spread awareness then you have to be entertaining to some degree. Requiring that element is odious but do you want voters to know what happened or not? Properly funding public education and requiring Civics as a subject is the way out of that. Until that time, readjust strategy to get the desired outcome, distasteful as it is.

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
35. That's the sad truth.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 06:48 PM
Jul 2019

I read the Mueller report.

I admit that I didn't read it enthusiastically. There were many other things that I would rather have been doing. But, I read it.

So far, no one that I know personally, has told me that they've read the report. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Fair enough. I really didn't want to read it either. Real life stuff gets in the way. Even if that real life stuff is reading something else.

But, that's how our country rolls now.......somebody else does the boring work, then summarizes it for us. If the summary isn't entertaining...then, it's time to change the channel.

We have a President who is only famous for being famous. He's been on TV a lot. "You're Fired."....damn, trump doesn't mess around. Except that he's pretty much sucked at everything other than that show.

If Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, or Franklin Roosevelt were to run against trump today, they'd be squashed in a landslide. Those guys are boring...all they have are thoughts, and ideas.

However, Oprah Winfrey, Justin Timberlake, and Dwayne Johnson would actually have a realistic chance of becoming the President.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
10. The M$M is why Dems always fight a head wind.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:07 PM
Jul 2019

The excuse made of scoring contests and/or ratings misses the point IMO.

The M$M is not our friend, it is complicit with the right, ratings are secondary, even making money is secondary.

The supposed most liberal cable news network msnbc is right wing. I remember back when Phil Donahue was arguing on air with Tweety. Tweety was pro Iraq war, Donahue was anti-Iraq war. They fired Donahue. Since then they have fired numerous cable news anchors who have strayed from the right wing narrative, they weren't fired for poor ratings, for not making msnbc money. Keith Olbermann was leading the ratings, but he was fired for straying to the left, Martin Brashear, Cenk Uygur, Melissa Harris/Perry, Ed Schultz, Dylan Ratigan were all fired by msnbc not because they were low in the ratings but because they strayed from the narrative.

I have used this example many times here before; Fox said that Obama beat his wife, CNN said it needed more information, msnbc said no he didn't. All 3 networks are basically the same because all 3 are talking about Obama beating his wife.

I watch Nicolle Wallace and Rachel Maddow and listen to Sirius radio and hang out at DU, right now I am hanging by a thread. I am not knocking DU, it helps keep me sane. I've said enough.

NewJeffCT

(56,829 posts)
25. They can work the refs all they want
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 04:15 PM
Jul 2019

They're not going to affect the coverage on:
TV:
Fox News
One America
Sinclair Broadcasting

Radio:
Rush Limbaugh
Clear Channel
Cumulus Media

Newspapers:
NY Post, Wall Street Journal, and countless other small local newspapers

They're a big reason the right has been so successful the past 25 years despite their demographics getting worse throughout - the RW media creates a huge noise and it sucks the rest of the media in behind them.

The Democrats have evenings on MSNBC, the Daily Show and a few others to counteract.

CBS, ABC, NBC and CNN tend to follow the big stories - and, when you have an 800 pound gorilla with a megaphone against a hummingbird, the media is going to listen to the 800 pound gorilla first and almost always.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
27. I tend to agree. It's free Enterprise. If people werent
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 04:21 PM
Jul 2019

watching, they'd go out of business. I remember the day the Mueller report came out. There was a real buzz. You could tell some of the liberal journalists were on pins and needles...surely we will express utter outrage and impeach. It was the best worlds for them. Seeing someone standup to the guy who called their news fake PLUS my employer will make more money!






mcar

(42,439 posts)
11. She sure does
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:07 PM
Jul 2019

With all that's gone on, many still look at this as theater, or view it only in political frameworks.

Catch2.2

(629 posts)
17. Unless something happens...
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:15 PM
Jul 2019

my faith in the Dems will cease. Slow playing this until the elections is not acceptable! If there are no consequences to committing crimes, then our country is doomed!

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
45. Agree. Guess that's what the author is getting at? Hard to tell
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 01:15 PM
Jul 2019

Stop calling for Impeachment and start calling for voting him out? Huh?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
52. What "consequences for crimes" do you think Congressional Dems can inflict
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 05:33 PM
Jul 2019

That they are not already doing?

There is no ability to indict him criminally while he's in office. Didn't you see the Mueller testimony?

Catch2.2

(629 posts)
55. How about
Sun Jul 28, 2019, 02:57 PM
Jul 2019

consequences for ignoring subpoenas such as a fines. Just because the DOJ has the opinion that a sitting president can't be indicted, doesn't mean others can't. At the very least, an impeachment inquiry is necessary. Lastly, the message. Dems don't realize that the majority of the population watch Fox News. They aren't aware of all the crimes committed by this administration. By starting an impeachment inquiry, or holding other corrupt trumpeters accountable etc. maybe more people will be aware of what's going on. And yes, I did watch the Mueller testimony, which is why there needs to be more action by the Dems.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
56. OK...
Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:32 PM
Jul 2019
How about consequences for ignoring subpoenas such as a fines. Just because the DOJ has the opinion that a sitting president can't be indicted, doesn't mean others can't.


Who do you think enforces the collection of the fines?


Dems don't realize that the majority of the population watch Fox News.


Got any stats to back that up?

They aren't aware of all the crimes committed by this administration. By starting an impeachment inquiry, or holding other corrupt trumpeters accountable etc. maybe more people will be aware of what's going on.


Nope. His fans don't care what he does. They will not see his tweets as racist, nor any action he does as a crime. They will call anything they don't want to believe "fake news." You really think they are going to see Democrats bringing impeachment hearings as anything else.



By starting an impeachment inquiry, or holding other corrupt trumpeters accountable etc. maybe more people will be aware of what's going on.


If someone isn't "aware" of his racism and criminal behavior by now, it's because they don't believe the "Lame stream media" or "the Deep state."

Impeachment will do none of the things that you state that you think it will.

It might make you feel better, but that's not enough justification for something that could backfire horribly on us in 2020 if done prematurely.

Catch2.2

(629 posts)
58. I disagree
Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:07 PM
Jul 2019

I have coworkers who just don't pay too much attention. It's not a lame stream media thing, although I have those too. As far as who enforces the fines, I don't know, please tell me. As far as Fox, it is the most watched network. Every public place I go gym, restaurant, hotel, etc. has Fox News on. In the end, this is just my opinion. I was raised to do the right thing. As far as impeachment guaranteeing trump victory in 2020, that is just an opinion too.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
59. So you don't have any actual data to back up your claim about FoxNews as being watched by
Sun Jul 28, 2019, 06:18 PM
Jul 2019

Last edited Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:46 AM - Edit history (1)

'a majority of the population."

Just where you go, it's on a lot.

Yes, that's an opinion, and not based in data other than your personal experiences.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
61. Nope. None of those links state what you claimed:
Tue Jul 30, 2019, 02:36 PM
Jul 2019
That a majority of the population watches FoxNews.

One of your links states that Fox news was the one most people watching the Mueller hearings watched - but that's not the same thing a majority of the population.

Even the highest rated cable news isn't going to get the majority of Americans watching it. They might take the marjority of Americans 'who watch cable news' but that is not the 'majority of Americans."

If FoxNews has the most cable news viewers at 1,425,000, it's still not anywhere near the majority of Americans - which number 327.2 million.

Do you see the difference? So you can put that notion to bed.

The body tasked with collecting fines for ignoring a Congressional subpoena is congress - but they do it via the DOJ.

Alternatively, Congress can ask the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, a federal prosecutor, to bring criminal charges against a witness who refuses to appear. There is a criminal law that specifically prohibits flouting a congressional subpoena.

But this option is also unlikely to be pursued, at least when it comes to subpoenas against executive branch officials.

“It would be odd, structurally, because it would mean the Trump administration would be acting to enforce subpoenas against the Trump administration,” said Lisa Kern Griffin, a former federal prosecutor and a law professor at Duke University.

For this reason, in modern times Congress has opted for a third and final approach to enforcing a contempt finding: getting its lawyers to bring a civil lawsuit asking a judge to rule that compliance is required.

Failure to comply with such an order can trigger a “contempt of court” finding, enforced through daily fines and even imprisonment, Griffin said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-congress-subpoena-explainer/explainer-congress-no-longer-runs-a-jail-so-just-how-powerful-are-its-subpoenas-idUSKCN1S02K8



Catch2.2

(629 posts)
62. Whatever
Sat Aug 3, 2019, 10:45 AM
Aug 2019

you said:
"So you don't have any actual data to back up your claim about FoxNews as the "most watched network."



I googled "Most watched network" and provided links as you asked for.


*thanks for the subpoena link. I honestly did not know which is why i asked. So basically they ask a judge to enforce, but it did not say which judge, at least for the third option.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
63. You stated..."a majority of the population watches FoxNews."
Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:34 AM
Aug 2019

Last edited Sun Aug 4, 2019, 09:14 AM - Edit history (1)

I asked for links to back that up, and you then tried to change the topic...

YOU didn't say that they were "the most watched network" I DID, when I left off the full quote when I said "most watched network" I have corrected that now. BTW - it's not the most watched network, it's the most watched "cable news network."

Basic math shows your statement "a majority of the population watches FoxNews" isn't true.

Majority means over 50%

American population (2018): 329,200,000

Average daily FoxNews veiwership: 1,425,000

That means

50% of 329,200,000 = 164,600,000

FoxNews veiwership is way, way less than the "majority of the population."




Catch2.2

(629 posts)
65. except that...
Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:25 AM
Aug 2019

You're assuming that 100% of the American population watch tv. The 329 million people you refer to include infants, babies, kids, etc. Not all 329 Million people are watching the news every day. Out of the people that do watch the news on a daily basis, I would argue that most watch Fox News as supported by the links I provided. You can try arguing semantics or whatever, but the links show that Fox is the most watched network. If winning an internet argument is your goal and makes you feel better, more power to you.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
66. YOU said, "A majority of the population watches FoxNews"
Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:31 PM
Aug 2019

"Out of the people who do watch news" is not the same as "population."

You can try arguing semantics or whatever,


Are you agreeing to that difference now that you've been shown? Words have meanings.

You're welcome.

Catch2.2

(629 posts)
72. and let me say
Sun Aug 11, 2019, 06:41 PM
Aug 2019

Most people would understand that when someone says "the majority of the population watches Fox News" they are referring to the population of people that watch the news. But I was more than willing to explain that to you. You're welcome...again.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
74. Nice try.
Sun Aug 11, 2019, 06:53 PM
Aug 2019

But nope. It's right there where everyone can see.

Most people know that the "majority of the population" isn't the anywhere near the same as as "the majority of the population that watches cable news" at all.

You're welcome!

Catch2.2

(629 posts)
75. Nope
Sun Aug 11, 2019, 07:13 PM
Aug 2019

My point was pretty obvious. Most people would understand that I wasn't referring to 3 year olds watching the news. Just because you didn't understand that doesn't mean everyone else didn't. But once again, you've proved my point. You try and make an argument about semantics and not substance so you can post "You're welcome" or some other stupid thing. It really is sad if this is what it takes to make you feel good. Try going outside a little more. There is a lot more to life than trying to win arguments on the internet, especially when it's over semantics.



*Oh yeah, I almost forgot to put a stupid emoji to show I "won"

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
77. Actually, I'm right and you're wrong.
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 07:46 AM
Aug 2019

For the reasons that I explained above. Semantics and stuff.

You're welcome.

Catch2.2

(629 posts)
78. So just to get this straight...
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 01:10 PM
Aug 2019

I said the majority of the population watches Fox News. In my next post I said Fox News is the most watched network. Unlike everyone else, you couldn't figure out that I was referring to people that actually watch the news. Instead you chose to argue semantics, completely ignoring the whole point of the thread, all so you can say "I'm right, you're wrong." Very childlike and sad. But again, if telling random people on the internet "I'm right, you're wrong" makes you feel better, more power to you. I'm just glad i'm not like you.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
79. "I said the majority of the population watches Fox News."
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 01:22 PM
Aug 2019

And that Democrats didn't 'realize' that "fact' about the population that watches FoxNews.

So just to get this straight... yes, you were wrong about both those things. Democrats 'realize' who watches FoxNews, as well as their ratings.

You ignored my challenge to "the majority of the population watches FoxNews," and afterwards, shifted to claim that you actually said all along that it was just "the most watched network." (which is also wrong - it's the most watched "cable news network," as the links you posted to defend your characterization of FoxNews showed. )

Now you can go around trying to tell people that you didn't write what you did write, and that when they point out that what you actually wrote isn't supported by facts, in a final attempt to avoid admitting where you got it wrong, retort that they are "ignoring the whole point of the thread," if that makes you feel better. Very childlike and sad.

But again, if telling random people on the internet "Pointing out that what I said is not supported by facts is ignoring the whole point of the thread" makes you feel better, more power to you. I'm just glad i'm not like you.

I take facts seriously, and don't make a spectacle out of myself bending over backwards to avoid admitting when I made a mistake.

You're welcome for the correction.

Pro-tip: You could have avoided all this by saying, "I should have said that the most watched cable news channel is FoxNews. That's what I meant." Then you would only have been wrong about "Democrats not realizing that."





Catch2.2

(629 posts)
80. Just to get this straight
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 01:09 AM
Aug 2019

If you ask anyone about the most watched network on television and you said the majority of the population watches Fox. Just about everyone would understand what you were saying. You either couldn't put 2 and 2 together, or you were too concerned about trying to have a "Gotcha" moment so that you can "Win". Either way it's quite sad.



Pro-tip: Stop spending your time trying to "Win" on the internet.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
81. You responded to a two week old post to tell someone else to "stop spending time trying to "win"
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 06:33 AM
Aug 2019

on the internet?"



To complain that someone pointing out what you wrote wasn't based in fact was a "gotcha moment?"




Just wanted to "get that straight."





Catch2.2

(629 posts)
82. and yet here you are
Wed Aug 28, 2019, 02:04 PM
Aug 2019

doing the same thing. Not my fault you can't put 2 & 2 together! When having a discussion on which is the most watched news network and someone says "The majority of the population watches Fox News". Most everyone understands that "population" means the population of news watchers, but not you. Enjoy your life of trying to "win" on the internet!








* There's a reason I wasn't on for two weeks. I don't spend my time trying to find "gotcha" moments on the internet. Maybe you should step away from the computer for a while. It does wonders! Enjoy your life!

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
83. Tag ur it.
Thu Aug 29, 2019, 07:26 AM
Aug 2019

I see that despite the fact that I pointed out where you were wrong, multiple times, along with you moving the goalposts, you seem to think that posting last makes you less wrong. Not my fault you can't take correction.

Enjoy your life! Is that a Gotcha?

Mr.Bill

(24,357 posts)
19. What sickens me is that our Democratic
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:23 PM
Jul 2019

elected officials have apparently rolled over and accepted that no Democrat will ever get to see what was redacted from the report.

My way of thinking is if Democrats with the highest level of security clearance haven't seen the whole report, then no one has actually read the report.

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
21. THIS
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:31 PM
Jul 2019

Perfectly articulates the frustration I think many of us feel. I'm so sick and tired of the whole charade, including the "good guys" (Dems). The media, regardless of which way it leans, is only concerned about ratings so that means drumming up emotion by going after more juicy things like Mueller's "performance"--regardless of relevance--instead of his substance.

So depressingly predictable. American's truly are stupid--or perhaps a better word is intellectually lazy. And you know what? It won't matter 24 hours from now because the media will have us all talking about something else. The next new low Trump falls so, or his next outrageous tweet. I'm just truly sick of the whole charade.



greatauntoftriplets

(175,767 posts)
26. This piece was the first thing I posted on Facebook early this morning.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 04:19 PM
Jul 2019

She's absolutely on target here. And to think that I once couldn't stand her writing. These days, she makes tons of sense.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
30. Necessity is the mother of invention...
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 04:33 PM
Jul 2019

and we really need to invent a new media format. People will not turn off what they watch, to watch a pure media outlet. Like Mueller, it is not entertaining. I don't think there is a day that goes by, that I don't know what's on the tv, and I never have to turn the thing on. Just stop by a few sites, and I've got all the talking points filed in my brain.

CaptainTruth

(6,615 posts)
31. What disheartens me the most is that we don't have thousands protesting, everywhere.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 04:52 PM
Jul 2019

To me, that is "our" failure.

What was once "ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country" has become "I'll just criticize House Dems online while I enjoy my comfy chair." That priveledge may be the death of us. If that's the most we're willing to do, I hate to say it, but that's shameful.

I was one of about 200,000 people who marched in San Francisco to protest the Iraq war. We shut down the whole downtown of a major US city.

Now? It seems very few are willing to put their bodies in the streets & make themselves heard in a way that cannot be denied. That's what discourages me the most, & I'm guilty of it too.

Folks, if we're going to save this country we have to get off our butts & fight for it.
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
32. Maybe you could help organize a protest in your community?
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 04:58 PM
Jul 2019

That's where it starts and that's where it matters.

gulliver

(13,199 posts)
33. The media cater to and create a spoiled, juvenile view of the world.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 05:55 PM
Jul 2019

They are more interested in how people "felt" about the Mueller testimony and whether the testimony "moved the needle" with the audience than whether the information was important.

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
34. what? Were is the 'us' part and then there is this:
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 06:02 PM
Jul 2019

Many well-meaning figures continue to beat the drums of impeachment rather than demand that Trump be voted out of office for betraying his country and lying to voters to conceal his crew’s unpatriotic sellout to Russian actors.

ppl that are for impeachment want him voted out as well, and say so. we don't make policy. we don't sway thousands of ppls perspectives. good grief.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
46. Agree. Think that's the crux of the article, among other
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 01:20 PM
Jul 2019

Things. We need to stop saying "impeach him" and start saying "vote him out." Or maybe just add a "btw vote him out" after we say "impeach him"!

Martin Eden

(12,882 posts)
36. "a media obsessed with scoring contests"
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 07:13 PM
Jul 2019

Yep -- they treat it like a reality TV sports contest, with an emphasis on personity clashes and salacious storylines.

They turn up the heat without shedding light on what's most important -- even though the life of our republic hangs in the balance.

Cetacea

(7,367 posts)
39. The conservative has it partly right.
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 02:08 AM
Jul 2019

She's right about the media of which she is a part of. She's wrong to assume that hard working people have the time to read a 400 page legal report.Barr knows this. Trump knows this. And that is why they both lied about the report and then sat on it while media ran with "No collusion. No obstruction" for weeks.

Cetacea

(7,367 posts)
50. Are you referring to Bob Reiner's excellent video summary?
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 04:13 PM
Jul 2019

I'm hoping he does a similar highlighting the Mueller testimony. Might be a bit redundant though.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
53. That sounds good too
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 08:20 PM
Jul 2019

There was one that was written too - I wish I could remember enough to link it. I think it was from DU, the person who wrote it joked that it read like a user agreement and they condensed it for people too busy to read the whole thing.

pecosbob

(7,548 posts)
43. Back in the sixties once I was watching Gilligan's Island on TV and my Dad came in from work at NASA
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 10:39 AM
Jul 2019

He said "Son...you watch to much fuckin' TV. It'll make you stupid...stop it."

He was right. I was a voracious reader. I stopped reading so much when I watched a lot of TV. Now we've got citizens that not only don't read, but can't even find the supermarket without a GPS. Since I was a boy the population has probably near doubled, and the average IQ has gone into the toilet.

Anyone that's letting the MSM influence their opinions or beliefs is a fool. Yes the country is full of them. Don't be that guy.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
44. True - and don't even get me started about the inability to make or calculate change.
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 10:49 AM
Jul 2019

When I was 6 years old, my mother taught me to calculate change in my head on the spot. Now, I see these poor checkout people completely unable to figure change to save their lives. And if the cash register doesn't tell them exactly how much of the $20 to give back on a $7.98 purchase, they are utterly lost.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
47. All true...but how could it be changed? As long as they
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 01:23 PM
Jul 2019

Make money and people watch. Not like we can control every viewer.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
49. An apology I owe Mueller
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 01:27 PM
Jul 2019

I posted the Mueller was not an honorable man. On reflection, I was mistaken. He did not bow to pressure from the White House as evidenced by his testimony.

May he live long and prosper after a career as a public servant.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
64. We can't overestimate the influence of subversive and venal
Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:39 AM
Aug 2019

media on the degradation of much of the electorate and our national conversation. Literally.

There's no point in saying what people should be, though we should certainly examine ourselves. The big picture is what a nation of people who are constantly encouraged to degenerate into their worst political selves is becoming.

And who's behind it and why. At one time wealthy families bought and ran major media at losses as a civic duty and to enhance the prestige of their families. No more, even though today's wealthy are incredibly more so than yesterday's. Republicans repealed laws requiring some responsibility in news broadcasting, then the internet made anything possible. Now giant international conglomerates and independent billionaires purchase ownership in MSM media of all types for other reasons. And we're seeing the results in widespread dissemination of disinformation through their holdings, the vast majority RW-serving.

Last March 24, 60 Minutes opened with a one-sentence special announcement on the Mueller Report, delivered by Scott Pelley, that: The Mueller investigation has EXONERATED Trump. And off to the first segment on a different topic.


This is what betrayal looks like these days.

pansypoo53219

(21,005 posts)
76. as john oliver calls it. stupid watergate. nixon covered it up, + was uncovered. the moron
Sun Aug 11, 2019, 08:26 PM
Aug 2019

attempted his coverup, but, failed to hide any†hing , but his taxes.

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