Oh, that Russia rigged the election thing? It's EVEN WORSE than you thought

[Baltimike]

They. RIGGED. the election. Yes...I said it...RIGGED. They switched votes, or didn't tabulate certain voters. Some of us have said this from jump. Truth will out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/us/politics/russian-hack-of-elections-system-was-far-reaching-report-finds.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

[JonLP24]

1. Thanks for posting

I'm very curious as to what is behind the redactions. I bet everything is even worse than I thought.

[malaise]

2. Get thee to the greatest page

Important

[asiliveandbreathe]

14. Malaise..the OP needs to be either taken down or rewritten..I am reading the report..nowhere does it

say votes were changed..see my comment on this thread #8..I don't like hurting peoples feelings but this OP is NOT correct....

[malaise]

20. I see your point

I think the OP author should edit it but remember M$Greedia is playing video showing the Con lying about Mueller's findings over and over.

[MFGsunny]

28. I'm with you on this. See below for link to actual report - not that long, worth our own read.

Best to have good and accurate info!

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume1.pdf

[asiliveandbreathe]

29. Tks MFGsunny..been reading..am totally beside myself with this incorrect information..

in the OP..I have asked, nicely the author correct it!..We'll see..tks...

[Baltimike]

94. I stand by my OP...Russia RIGGED this...truth will out

[uponit7771]

49. Russia did not have sex with the US electoral systems !! Come on, they did everything and that

Last edited Fri Jul 26, 2019, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)

... was beyond bad enough.

[asiliveandbreathe]

54. For now...we just don't know...for someone to say votes were changed without

evidence..which is fact - then why would someone yell fire in the theater...my only point - we don't know for sure..I read the report..yes redacted..yes, some states didn't really seem to care - which ones, I don't know..they are only a # - except for Illinois..in the report..if you read through this thread you will see more...have a great evening..

[Baltimike]

60. NOPE. For someone to connect the dots is absolutely patriotic

at some point in time, demanding a smoking gun IN SPITE OF ALL THE FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT FUCKING SHOWS THEY DID THIS is helping them to do it again.

[triron]

62. With you on this point totally.

[asiliveandbreathe]

63. I wish I could help you - I tried....why are you swearing and yelling...

I gave you the link to the report...don't you think if votes were changed there would be an all out bulletin....

[triron]

65. I realize your post was not addressed to me but why do you believe what you said?

You realize the societal earthquake this would cause? It would throw our entire election system into chaos.

[asiliveandbreathe]

66. What are you referring to???

[Baltimike]

95. and I wish you could realize that I don't need your fucking help

Russia RIGGED the election. Each time I say it, folks come in to point out that "no votes were switched, so don't say that" <<<------ but they were, so I will keep saying that.

And over these few years, more and more drips out...."it's worse than you thought" one month..."it's even worse than you thought from when you were informed that it's worse than you think" a few later.

The cuss words...yep...I come from a long line o sailors. We cuss. I *cuss*. There is no need to engage me at all if you fucking don't like it. I will NEVER kowtow to that passive/aggressive bullshit. Know this.

Russia BRAGS on their state TV about how MF45 is "theirs" and that they put him there...he hands them classified information right the fuck in front of everyone's face...they hacked the voter files...the paid for social media disinformation campaigns in rubles for fuck's sake...they had operatives here doing ALL types of shit, but I am supposed to believe that they didn't hack the votes themselves, because you say so.

It's like they murdered Lady Liberty, and you're demanding a smoking gun when the traitors are in charge of the evidence room. Fuck that.

We see Lady Liberty lying murdered on the floor...we see all the evidence surrounding what happened, and some of you (all) think the ones screaming "It's them" need to produce their weapons for your approval. *Nope*

ALL the other evidence shows that they did. I will no longer be silent on the matter, and I don't give a rat's ass who that offends. They did it.

[triron]

96. I'm with you. Need more people like you in congress.

[Baltimike]

103. Thank you...

I think not identifying what happened...being all "shruggy shoulder" "you just don't *know& they did that, is just fucking insane, given all that has come out AND CONSIDERING THE FUCKING FACT THAT THEY NEVER EXAMINED THESE FUCKING MACHINES AT ALL. Fuck that. Acting like they didn't switch votes is *PRETENDING*.

Oh noooooooooo, we can't say that they did that...."because *that* would undermine our entire voting system". And that they rigged the fucking votes doesn't?

Oh no...fuck that. Fuck that all day long. I won't be bullied or gaslighted.

[crimycarny]

106. I absolutely believe they switched votes

And I've felt that way from the beginning. I am NOT a conspiracy junkie but it makes a lot more sense that votes were switched than that they weren't. The polls were SO off in key states, including exit polls. How can an exit poll show Hillary ahead by 5+ percentage points only to have Trump end up winning? And always by a margin that is just below the threshold that would trigger a recount.

And you're telling me that Russia was able to successfully hack into voting machines but held off of modifying or deleting votes? No way. I think they did and the powers that be feel it's a "national security issue" to keep that a secret. Imagine the panic, anger, etc., if we knew for a fact Russia changed the election results?

From a Business Insider report on "Why were the polls so wrong in 2016":

"Murray's final Pennsylvania poll showed Clinton with a 4-point lead with a 4.9-point margin of error, which still was not big enough to capture the margin — 1.2 points — by which Trump would win the state.

His theory for what happened at the time: "Non-response among a major core of Trump voters." (my emphasis)

[triron]

107. The Princeton Election Consortium gave HRC a 99+% chance of winning.

He has rarely been wrong before about who would win and with these odds it just seems crazy.
Then an exit poll analysis that was done by a statistician showed that 26 out of 28 states exit polled
skewed toward Trump relative to final vote tabulations. The probability of this is nearly 1 out of a million.
Then nearly every prognosticator had HRC winning. All these things taken together plus what we know the Russians did
makes vote count manipulation all but certain. But some people here just want it to go away so they can
stay in 'the matrix'.

[Baltimike]

108. exactly...drip, drip, drip...they did this that and the other

but since we NEVER EXAMINED THE FUCKING MACHINES there is no smoking gun, so "you can't say that they switched votes". Yes I can, because they did.

[questionseverything]

70. plus one

[uponit7771]

67. Again, you're asking for proof that Russia changed votes when everything less than that can still...

... invalidate elections.

It's proffering an impossible bar via false dichotomy ... changing votes isn't the only way to invalidate elections.

Registration shaving and vote adding are other ways to alter an election numerically and proffering none of it was done seems the least likely of human behavior relative to what the Russians motivations were.

Someone breaking into a bank and not taking any money is overtly stupid, no one is going to believe that all the money is there.

[58Sunliner]

72. How about Georgia-

which wiped it's main server rather than have anyone inspect the security. "The server in question, which served as a statewide staging location for key election-related data, made national headlines in June after a security expert disclosed a gaping security hole that wasn’t fixed six months after he reported it to election authorities."
https://apnews.com/877ee1015f1c43f1965f63538b035d3f

Plaintiffs in the lawsuit, mostly Georgia voters, want to scrap the state’s 15-year-old vote-management system — particularly its 27,000 AccuVote touchscreen voting machines, hackable devices that don’t use paper ballots or keep hard copy proof of voter intent. The plaintiffs were counting on an independent security review of the Kennesaw server, which held elections staging data for counties, to demonstrate the system’s unreliability.

Wiping the server “forestalls any forensic investigation at all,” said Richard DeMillo, a Georgia Tech computer scientist following the case. “People who have nothing to hide don’t behave this way.”

[triron]

50. You don't know what it says since it's so heavily redacted.

You should remove your post.

[asiliveandbreathe]

52. Wow...I do not know if votes were changed..I read the report..redacted yup..

votes were changed??...do you know? is that what has been redacted..I didn't know we have access to redacted info..if you read the whole thread here, you will see that the op delves into conjecture...votes were changed???..that is my only point..if you or I comment here..without fact..then why bother..did I recv remarks from author...sure...I was nicely asking him to correct his op..

[triron]

59. It goes both ways. We can't assume votes weren't changed and there is circumstantial evidence that

they were and evidence they have been in previous elections (e.g. Ohio in 2004).

[asiliveandbreathe]

64. I will await the breaking news bulletin...votes were changed - until then - I am not in the camp

of votes changed..easy enough..tks for the info Ohio 2004 I will do some research on that..trust but verify...be well triron..

[Baltimike]

104. Awesome that you will at least wait instead of maintain it didn't happen

your Ohio search regarding the 2004 election should involve an asshole named Ken Blackwell. He did the rigging in that one.

[UniteFightBack]

134. That's for helping the Russians accomplish thier mission.

Un fucking believable.

[triron]

138. 2nd that.

[asiliveandbreathe]

142. Is it something I said, as many here have expressed - sad to come back 'round

from Thursday..I will listen to facts..not conjecture..as my son, Ret. Navy Chief says..trust but verify, carry-on..

[triron]

143. Perhaps we're being overdramatic. The facts likely won't appear because we are not allowed to know.

[asiliveandbreathe]

144. Another quote from most honorable son. something is true "if and only if" something else was true

I do love DU, even with all the drama..may we save our Country, countrymen and women, we are gearing up in AZ with Mark Kelly - he has a very good chance to beat McSally....we ALL need to keep the house, flip the senate (this in turn will mute mcturtle, if Kentuck doesn't see the light) and take the WH...

[triron]

145. In logic, 'if and only if' mean equivalent.

[triron]

146. Also if you have a implies b and a is true then b is true. However if you only have b is true, a is

not necessarily true. Also the contrapositive, 'not a' implies 'not b', is equivalent to a implies b.
In our 2016 election 'a' would be the mountain of circumstantial evidence that
Trump could not have won (legitimately). If the circumstantial evidence (or 'a') is true then it must be true that 'b' follows, thus Trump did not legitimately win. If you assume that b is false then logically 'not b' implies 'not a' thus
you conclude (erroneously in my view) that the mountain of circumstantial evidence is false.
I apologize for being pedantic.

[asiliveandbreathe]

18. See post #11 too...n/t

[cmeneer]

3. BINGO!

I've said this from the beginning. If they were so willing to participate in the collusion and criminal activity, why would they not throw the vote. Hard to admit that our elections have become a farce, but...our elections have become a farce.

[Baltimike]

5. welcome to DU.

it will be surprising how many people will demand you examine voting machines that are locked up in order to prove it to them.

[Cracklin Charlie]

27. My question is why.

Why would they go to all the time, effort, and expense of interference WITHOUT ensuring the outcome?

That is my question.

[stillcool]

4. well...jeeze...

maybe the states should count the paper votes they have, and see if it matches the total? Might be too much to ask of the Secretary of State, in many of the states with big voting issues. They probably burn whatever ballots they have asap.

[Baltimike]

6. I bet they did destroy evidence

because this is treason and their lives depend on it

[Hortensis]

7. No longer anything like a surprise. Wouldn't it be

something if Trump's very election became seriously in doubt, or even clearly stolen?

Although at one time the need to preserve and protect our peaceful transition of power may have seemed to dictate the most important course, that was accomplished and thus another priority would replace it if it were determined that Russia had thrown Democratic victories to the Republicans. Perhaps better words would be "were known to the people that...."

WHAT is in that third section of the Mueller report that is not available to us and what do our intelligence services know?

[asiliveandbreathe]

8. I may have 17 pages to go in Volumn 1 of this Senate report..so I will just say this

switched votes, or didn't tabulate certain votes, has not been identified thru 50 pages..sure, is the report wigging me out, yup..at some point I have to believe someone with regards to any hacking of our elections..so I am reading it myself, before any analysis...

Yes, reading the report there is indication in many states, that Russian hacking was attempted....but vote changed..if it is stated votes were changed..then I will correct my comment..

What I found concerning is states are afraid the Feds want to take over elections...I don't want the Feds to take over elections from states either..but I don't want states to stick their heads in the sand either..when the Feds are only trying to help them..

[Wellstone ruled]

9. Watched a video of a

High Schooler hack both a ESS and a Diebold Tabulator and did it in seconds. Not only changing totals,but was able to put the numbers back in place. Did it with his I-phone. There was a Diebold Tech sitting right next to this machine and did not have a clue until we filled the dummy in. Just please leave and don't say anything.

[Ilsa]

10. I believe it. They only needed to flip a handful of votes from HRC

to IQ45 in each precinct to move him ahead in MI, PA, and WI.

[dalton99a]

19. +1. There is a reason European countries don't allow electronic voting

Russia.

[anarch]

76. actually, probably not from HRC to dipshit, but more likely to Stein

Somewhere on the order of 1 out of every 100 HRC votes going to Stein instead, at the tabulation stage, and just in a few key districts...that would have done it, and would be damn near impossible to detect.

[Ilsa]

77. Then more flipping would be required. nt

[triron]

147. Probably a combination of strategies were used.

[Funtatlaguy]

151. Fewer precincts than that: Think Detroit, Philly, Milwaukee.

[triron]

153. Probably where the majority of damage was done.

[triron]

154. The Russians had the polling data and they understood the vulnerabilities, thus they struck where

it was most effective and easiest to cover their tracks.

[Dennis Donovan]

11. Sigh...

"switch" "tabulate" or "rig" came up with zero keyword hits in the article.

"Hyperbole", on the other hand, reeks from the OP.

Let's be smart about this, and NOT try to destroy democratic institutions with panicky OP's like this (or with attacks on the Free Press in this country).

Take a chill pill, Phil (or Mike, in this case )

[Baltimike]

21. YAWN...

I said it before, and I will continue to say it...Russia RIGGED the election.

Also, the CONSERVATIVE PRESS leans very decidedly to the right. Here is but one example: https://www.salon.com/2018/09/23/cnn-focus-group-of-conservative-women-turns-out-to-be-comprised-of-gop-operatives/

And, no, I am not going all over the web to prove to you that the "liberal media" has been the CONSERVATIVE PRESS all along.

Saying that they rigged the election is trying to "destroy democratic institutions with panicky OP's like this"? Oh...

Hyperbole indeed.

[UniteFightBack]

23. This is a bigger Russian goal to make Americans question the results and lose faith.

Seems like it is working pretty well.

[Dennis Donovan]

24. Don't trust the electoral systems or free press!

[Baltimike]

33. connect the dots and fight back against PROPAGANDA

[stopdiggin]

42. you mean like when you misrepresent the article you linked to?

"They switched votes, or didn't tabulate certain voters." But the article DOESN'T say that. "Fight back against propaganda." Indeed!
Carry on.

[bdamomma]

141. I agree

no

[58Sunliner]

73. If you are paying attention, it's already dubious.

[femmedem]

12. The article says they didn't find any evidence of switched votes. n/t

[Dennis Donovan]

16. I'm seeing a pattern...

... w/ this.

[Baltimike]

17. drip, drip, drip. nt

[Dennis Donovan]

25. .

You're from central casting!

[Baltimike]

56. !

[dalton99a]

13. The president knew it was rigged:

Link to tweet

[Rene]

15. Voting logs..software..pgms and ballots are proprietarymaterials of

Voting system vendors and Secretary of State and town clerks. Found out when I witnessed suspicious voting totals that I'd never be able to witness recounts or view any logs or ballots etc. All materials kept from viewing.

[Baltimike]

22. wow. nt

[asiliveandbreathe]

26. Please correct your OP to anything but incorrect information..

NO....this report does not say they switched votes..or didn't tabulate certain votes....

[Dennis Donovan]

30. Exactly!

kick for your kick!

[AncientGeezer]

31. Your artice disputes your claim

"They switched votes, or didn't tabulate certain voters."

[asiliveandbreathe]

32. Here Mike - The Senate Report..I strongly wish you would read it..

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume1.pdf

You comment...They switched votes, or didn't tabulate certain voters - UMMM NO!!!!!

It is bad enough, without yelling fire in the theater,,,,

[Dennis Donovan]

34. Thank you for your voice of sanity!

[Baltimike]

39. Nice try there...no dice...

My comment is my OWN and I also said "truth will out". I read that report though. Show me where it says that they examined the voting equipment. Oh that's right, they didn't.

Holy fucking shit.

[stopdiggin]

43. show me where it says

"They switched votes, or didn't tabulate certain voters." Oh, right. They didn't.

[asiliveandbreathe]

47. Sad...

[58Sunliner]

35. Preaching to the choir. I knew this from day 1.

[Baltimike]

57. it's unreal how the gaslighting happens here. (sometimes) nt

[58Sunliner]

71. I agree. People want it both ways too. Trolls gotta troll.

Putin is smart and spends millions to just leave a calling card?? Don't think so. He is a ruthless psychopath. He would never leave something to chance when he could ensure success. The misinformation/trolls/bots etc... was just to manufacture the appearance of a larger base and a fake validation of the theft of the vote. IMO. What else is being manufactured, besides the thousands of people at his rallies, who usually aren't thousands.

[sandensea]

36. Illegitimate through and through

A lot like his relationship with Ivanka.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

37. KR NT

[KY_EnviroGuy]

38. From a quick scan, Republicans are passing the buck to the states.

Another divide and conquer tactic with red vs blue states.

Rethug legislators won't do shit unless they think Russia or other external actors have shifted left.....

[rockfordfile]

40. The Russians messed with everything and they had help. A open door

[usaf-vet]

41. I'm retire from the computer industry. I have been saying since 2000 Bush v Gore that...

... the national move to electronic voting was pushed to make election fraud easier and hidden from the voters.

I have always felt and said that votes we being flipped in the tabulators. And that it would likely be in select regions and it would occur within the margin of error.

The ways that votes have been manipulated are numerous. from denying some voters to vote, by moving voting location, by limiting the number of working machines in a polling place, by suppressing voter through voter ID requirements, by gerrymandering district AND by altering voting matching software in the guise of necessary "patches and upgrades".

Most polling places are manned by senior citizen volunteers. Few if any are computer savvy. Most are computer illiterate. They trust that the system is fair. They never question results.

The poll worker's issue say three hundred ballots. At the end of the day, they check the tabulators (ballot scanners) to see how many ballots were run through the scanner. Three hundred issued. Three hundred scanned. Everything is accurate. They never consider that the votes on each ballot could be inaccurate as long as 300 = 300. YET a software routine (in the patch) could have purposely flipped 10,20,30 votes (within the margin of error) from one candidate to the opponent. 300 ballots would still equal 300 counted ballots.

Then the news media in their desire to be first with the results They report the raw vote totals and often call the winner. This is all before the ballots have been certified. Once the winner has been announced anyone questioning the results are wrong is called a sore loser and then often faces a legal battle to get a recount. A hand recount. An expensive hand recount.

One final part of hiding stolen election. Historically exit polling was always seen as a good indicator of the accuracy of the announced winner. On the night of the BUSH - GORE election The Drudge Report issued a headline in big red bold letters reading DON'T TRUST THE EXIT POLLING.

That was the start of demonizing exit polling. That night at approximately 9:30 to 10:00 EST with the polls in Florida closed and the Drudge headline banner. I turn to my wife and said they are going to steal this election. Little did I guess it was the opening salvo of the GOP stealing our Democracy. Step by step. Weakening safeguards one by one and here we are today. In my mind, a straight line from the 2000 SCOTUS stolen election to the 2016 "Russian assisted" election results. With a stolen SCOTUS seat, to swing the court to a conservative court, in the process. IMHO all part of the GOP plan.

VOTES ARE BEING STOLEN (manipulated) AND ELECTIONS ARE BEING STOLEN

[Farmer-Rick]

44. Of course they are.

The logic of everything done to our voting system since the dancing supremes voted in W for us, clearly points to vote count manipulation.

But we can overwhelm the cheat machines like we did with Obama and when we took back the House. But we shouldn't have to. RepubliCONS win when fewer people vote.

[usaf-vet]

46. Here is the start of voter suppression. Pass this on.

&list=WL&index=29&t=0s&frags=pl%2Cwn

[triron]

51. Thank you for this eye-opening and educational post.

You will not change the minds of the deniers though, unfortunately.
They want to stay in the 'matrix'.

[Hoyt]

55. So, where were the vote changers in 2008 and 2012, and 2018?

[triron]

61. We are not talking about those elections. No one has investigated them except in North Carolina in

2018. Florida and Georgia are suspicious as well in 2018.

[uponit7771]

69. They don't have to "change" votes to alter elections numerically. Basically if its close in a state

... that is red governed (1% close) and is a heavy VSM it's going to go republican.

2008 wasn't 1% close anywhere neither VSM states neither was 2012 except in Ohio and look at how Rove acted on FAUX news.

2018 was stolen in GA and FL ... Russians hacked FL and the FBI asked the gov of FL not to report it ...

Every state Clinton was up 2% on that was a red lead VSM state the night of the election Clinton lost, they're not even trying any longer.

[usaf-vet]

83. Well in Wisconsin they were "stealing" state elections. Gerrymandering. Stacking State Supreme Court

Similar changes were being implemented in Michigan and Pennsylvania. All leading to the 2016 Presidential elections where Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania handed Trump the Electoral College win.

Russian interference in these states was likely because the states had paved the way within their own borders to control the voting systems via gerrymandering, new voter ID laws, programs to suppress voter turnout and access to the polling place in districts with high numbers of Democratic voters. All based on years of historical voting data.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/donald-trump-will-be-president-thanks-to-80000-people-in-three-states/?utm_term=.d5fc12ecfe93

The most important states, though, were Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Trump won those states by 0.2, 0.7 and 0.8 percentage points, respectively — and by 10,704, 46,765 and 22,177 votes. Those three wins gave him 46 electoral votes; if Clinton had done one point better in each state, she'd have won the electoral vote, too.

IMO this isn't a hit or miss plan this is a strategic long-range plan to gain and maintain political power. The list of things that the GOP leaders have changed and implement is hard for one person to comprehend. McConnell didn't decide at the last minute to steal the SCOTUS seat from President Obama's nominee Merrick Garland and hold up countless numbers of federal judgeships. Why? To stack the courts to limit the ability of dissenters getting a fair hearing. Trump is now stacking those courts to further limit dissent.

We better pay attention and get treatment to fight political cancer that is eating away at our Democracy.

[Hoyt]

84. Never denied gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc. And no question

votes COULD be changed next time.

[usaf-vet]

85. Exactly a LONG RANGE PLAN! Make small changes and reap the benefits in future elections.

[Skittles]

74. worthy of its own thread

yes indeed

[Meowmee]

75. Agree my brother thought this at the time too.

It is so obvious what happened.

[uponit7771]

45. Nah, they just broke into systems, looked at data and just left it. That's what we're being ...

Last edited Fri Jul 26, 2019, 09:03 AM - Edit history (2)

... told to believe.

we're not

The usual "do you have hard proof" condescension comes next as if anything but > 75% empirical evidence is needed ... its not

[FBaggins]

80. Except that not even that is well established

The article isn’t about instances where they “broke into systems”. The vast majority of hack attempts are unsuccessful.

[Amishman]

87. This, I'd like to know specifics on what was attempted and what was successful

I currently work in IT for a bank, our servers get intrusion attempts from overseas daily; Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Belarus, and Brazil are the most common offenders. My home network gets probed frequently as well. There are intelligence gathering operations (both government and free-lance) that use automated tools to try to penetrate literally every single system that is connected to the internet.

The other thing with intrusion attempts is that it is far easier to get access and copy data than it is to modify data; especially without anyone noticing. Write permissions are usually more tightly restricted, and change control and data integrity processes should raise red flags quickly if data is tampered with.

[uponit7771]

91. There was penetration into multiple levels of registration systems in 16 and 18. The stretch in ...

... logic is to believe they broke into these systems and did nothing even thought their goals was to affect the US elections in Trumps favor.

[uponit7771]

88. Florida 2018, they did break into systems

[FBaggins]

89. Reportedly in two counties

And no claim that they were able to change anything.

See Amishman's #87 above your reply. His experience is virtually identical to my own.

It's also worth noting that you example also directly refutes the OP.

[uponit7771]

90. The stretch is to believe NOTHING was altered not vice versa and "changing" something isn't the

... only way to affect a numerical election.

[UniteFightBack]

135. That's all they had to do to get people to mistrust and boy is it working. nt

[Blue_Tires]

48. I'm not naming names, but

Last edited Fri Jul 26, 2019, 09:36 AM - Edit history (1)

There are some very specific high-profile names in the left/liberal pundisphere who have screeched up and down for three fucking years at their publications, websites and social media accounts that Kremlingate was just a myth cooked up by so-called "establishment" Dems and sour-grapes Hillary...

These people all need to be purged from liberal dialogue if we are to make any progress. By their works you shall know them.

[triron]

53. Interesting if true. There are a lot of left wing Hillary haters out there though.

[Blue_Tires]

92. "IF" true?? Check out twitter -- They're impossible to miss

[Hoyt]

58. Somebody is avoiding main conclusion -- No evidence of 2016 vote changes or manipulation.

Agree it could very well happen in 2020, so much more needs to be done.

But it’s just an unsupported excuse for people not voting or voting for other side because their primary candidate didn’t make cut in some misplaced protest, Comey, not effectively responding to disinformation and lies, bashing Democratic candidates for things trump exploited like trade agreements, overconfidence, etc.

[uponit7771]

68. No votes changed doesn't mean Russian didn't numerically alter the 2016 election. We've been over

... this till we're blue in the face on this board since 16.

Why is "no vote changes" being intimated as the only way to numerically effect the US elections?

[FBaggins]

78. It's appropriate given the context of the thread

Specific claims are made for which there has never been any evidence. Someone pointing that out doesn’t have to deal with unrelated claims.

But I’m interested in your phrasing. What do you mean by “numerically effect”? A Facebook meme that convinces someone not to vote for Clinton would certainly have a numerical impact... but that’s an entirely different genre from the “hacking” claims of the OP.

Which it should again be noted... are entirely unsupported by the linked article.

[Hoyt]

81. Exactly.

[Baltimike]

113. somebody is ignoring the FACT that they never looked at the voting machines

You can say that no evidence exists of arson in a fire if you haven't examined the fucking rubble and ashes...but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. To wit:

They hacked our voter files

They hacked the DNC

They coordinated with the Republic party

Laundered money and operatives through the NRA

and a host of other shit I can't recall off the top of my head...but CHILDREN are proving they can hack those machines, but RUSSIA, who did ALL of THAT other stuff (and more) didn't switch any votes. Oh, and they never looked at any machines.

Ooooooo-kay

[Hoyt]

117. No evidence covers that, but why get in the way of another conspiracy

that does not matter unless we let Ruskies or anyone else mess with votes or anything else?

[Baltimike]

119. PLENTY of evidence "covers that", it has been avoided

refusing to look at something does NOT mean it isn't there.

[lindysalsagal]

79. We need paper ballots and we need full counts, everywhere, everytime.

And if it's expensive and slow, so be it.

[GoCubsGo]

82. That's likely not going to happen, unfortunately.

The House passed a bill yesterday requiring those things, along with protections against foreign interference. It passed with one republican vote. Moscow Mitch has already he will not bring it up, because "The Trump administration has already taken steps blah, blah, blah..." What steps they have taken is beyond me, other than to make it easier to rig things for themselves.

[brooklynite]

86. Wrong. The report said the exact OPPOSITE...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212317025

[Baltimike]

93. WRONG. The report did not examine the voting equipment

and holy fuck...wow

[triron]

97. Senator Wyden expressed his doubts about the reports supposed conclusion in his minority view.

Last edited Fri Jul 26, 2019, 12:13 PM - Edit history (1)

If the committee had found votes were changed and said so, our election system would have been thrown into
utter chaos. So they buried their collective heads in the sand and said otherwise. Also I don't even want to think
about what it would have instigated Trump to do.

[Baltimike]

102. all day long...this. You are spot on. nt

[Hoyt]

120. Do you have a page citation for that? I see where Wyden, rightly discusses his concerns about

security and that he believes (as do I) that it should not be left up to the states to preserve security of elections. But, I don't see where he said that.

Even if he did, the "If" means they didn't find evidence. Believe me, I believe it COULD have happened, and we should spend billions making sure it doesn't in 2020. We lost in 2016 for several reasons, but not because votes were hacked.

[triron]

121. Maybe it's all in your (or my) interpretation of what he said.

It's titled 'Minority views of Senator Wyden' in the back of the report.
You probably have already read that.

[Hoyt]

123. Yes, and he did not say what the poster above said. Wyden did say that it should not be left to

states to protect security. I agree with that.

Truthfully, except for making sure nothing happens in 2020, 2016 is now over. Nothing we can do to change that election results. The future is what matters, and there is a big threat -- both this report and Mueller say the same thing.

[triron]

125. Not in so many words maybe but it was implied in much of his response.

We didn't find anything because 1) we did not look 2) The Russian hackers were very good at covering their tracks
(thus even looking for problems might very well not detect them).

It is not disputed that the Russians were looking for vulnerabilities in our election system.
Why wouldn't they exploit these? You really believe the GRU put all the efforts into getting Trump elected
without doing everything they could to ensure that?

[VOX]

98. There's this: "[In 2016, Russians] might have been cataloging options 'for use at a later date'..."

And it is a serious concern. If a free and fair election is even feasible anymore, this should be Issue Number One.

<snip>Even today, after a two-and-a-half-year investigation, the committee conceded that “Russian intentions regarding U.S. election infrastructure remain unclear.” Moscow’s intelligence agencies — chiefly the G.R.U., Russia’s main military intelligence unit — may have “intended to exploit vulnerabilities in the election infrastructure during the 2016 elections and, for unknown reasons, decided not to execute those options.”

But more ominously, the report suggested that it might have been cataloging options “for use at a later date” — a possibility that officials of the National Security Agency, the Department of Homeland Security and the F.B.I. said was their biggest worry. <snip>

[triron]

100. I think the statement below is wrong. They did execute those options. But no one will say so.

Russia’s main military intelligence unit — may have “intended to exploit vulnerabilities in the election infrastructure during the 2016 elections and, for unknown reasons, decided not to execute those options.”

[VOX]

139. Agreed. That, and a probable dry-run for 2020.

And Republicans make ZERO effort to even discuss this dire issue.

[jmowreader]

99. I suspect it was even easier

Go into the voter registration databases and selectively deregister Democrats.

[triron]

101. They were clever enough to cover their tracks.

That's why it was not obvious they altered the election results.
Putin is probably smiling about this.

[triron]

105. kick for visibility

[triron]

109. knr

[yardwork]

110. The Russians hacked into elections computers. This is proven. They'll do it again.

[Baltimike]

111. it's crazy how peopletry to gaslight you into thinking it didn't happen

Seriously.

[yardwork]

112. There is absolute proof. It happened in my town in NC

I wish the Democrats in Congress were focused on this. Forget impeachment.

[Baltimike]

114. It happened in your twon? Tell me more...nt

[triron]

115. I believe N. C. is one of the states where vote counts were altered but maybe not enough

to otherwise give the state to HRC.

[brooklynite]

122. Nobody disputes that Russia hacked Voting Database computers...

...but those have nothing to do with voting machines and tallies.

[dalton99a]

116. +1. It's not exactly rocket science:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/opinion/election-voting-machine-hacking-russians.html

I Hacked an Election. So Can the Russians.
By J. Alex Halderman
April 5, 2018

[triron]

118. Thank you.

[Baltimike]

126. thank you indeed. I hadn't seen this nt

[triron]

127. Please post some of the article. I cannot open it.

[triron]

128. knr

[triron]

124. Please keep this one on the burner.

[triron]

129. kick again

[triron]

130. kick again

[triron]

131. kick again

[Baltimike]

132. you are my hero! Because this really is soooo important. nt

[triron]

133. Thanks but I'm doing it for exactly that reason.

As many as possible need to be exposed to this discussion.

[UniteFightBack]

136. Delete this fear mongering OP comrade. nt

[Baltimike]

137. No.

[triron]

140. This is a joke right?

[Baltimike]

165. It's crazy, right? nt

[triron]

148. kick for visibility

[triron]

149. Again.

[ck4829]

150. Kick

[Hoyt]

152. Can you show where that article says they switched votes, or didn't count certain votes? It doesn't.

Christ.

[triron]

155. Of course not. We are not allowed to know. eos.

Probably highly classified. Just like contact with ET. Our society would be traumatized (or so 'they' think)
I already know the content of your reply but you will anyway. I agree with you on many things
but we are not even on the same planet on this.

[Hoyt]

156. Seen enough conspiracies in my life that weren't supported. This is another one. Admittedly, it

COULD HAPPEN.

Gotta admit "It's too classified for even Democratic Senators on the Intelligence Committee to admit votes were changed" is a unique explanation for no evidence in the article, in the Intel Committee Report, or anywhere else.


Seriously, I do have a problem with summarizing articles with outright fabrications, to try to make a point.

[triron]

157. If it's classified Democratic (or otherwise) senators won't say it openly. Geesh.

[triron]

158. Starting to believe too many Americans don't even care. Trying to bury their heads in the sand.

[Baltimike]

159. Giving in to that achieves Russia's goal

take a break. self care is important. And then get back in the fight. REAL patriots know that an information war is afoot, and you are a fucking LEGEND. Never forget this.

[triron]

160. Gettin it back.

[Baltimike]

161. thank you nt

[triron]

162. Hey y'all remember this?

[Baltimike]

163. the chaos and slow walking of the largest attack on America in our history is stunning. nt

[triron]

164. knr

[triron]

166. Jimmy Carter said as much.

[Baltimike]

167. the drip, drip, drip continues bc the Russian efforts have not stopped. nt

[triron]

168. But Barr & friends sure have put a damper on the indictments.

[Baltimike]

169. they're slow walking Justice

[triron]

170. They're tripping and putting obstacles in the way.