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Trump is illegitimate:"Russian cyberactors were in a position to delete or change voter data.. (Original Post) HipChick Jul 2019 OP
I'm sure the Media will get right on this story Va Lefty Jul 2019 #1
Though portions were redacted, the number one conclusion was: Hoyt Jul 2019 #2
prove my vote wasn't changed Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #5
Prove it was. We ought to be spending billions to safeguard system, Hoyt Jul 2019 #9
you cannot secure based on the presumption of security Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #29
Well said, watoos Jul 2019 #33
an electronic voting machine regurgitates as instructed Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #34
Sure, Democratic committee members are spreading right wing "talking points." Hoyt Jul 2019 #38
Yeah, when I grew up with paper ballots, it was miscounts, lost ballot boxes, etc. Hoyt Jul 2019 #36
I can use a vote by mail ballot because in Texas you can do this if you are over 65 yellowdogintexas Jul 2019 #24
can you watch the electrons moving in the machines? Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #26
Did you look at the report? Even the findings were almost completely redacted. triron Jul 2019 #6
That sentence wasn't redacted, and I can read. Hoyt Jul 2019 #10
It was cherry picked. triron Jul 2019 #12
Sure. And Kamala Harris, Feinstein, etc., are in on it too. Hoyt Jul 2019 #14
We don't know that. triron Jul 2019 #40
Perhaps you have a citation otherwise. Hoyt Jul 2019 #43
Prove my vote wasn't changed. Nt lostnfound Jul 2019 #8
As above, prove it was. We lost, and the likely reasons are obvious. Hoyt Jul 2019 #11
We've been saying this for two years malaise Jul 2019 #3
Yup.. HipChick Jul 2019 #7
Russia RIGGED the election. Do not let ANYONE bully or gaslight you. nt Baltimike Jul 2019 #4
Absolutely! AND bluestarone Jul 2019 #15
identifying the problem, and acknowledging it Baltimike Jul 2019 #17
You realize the report says no votes were changed right? AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #19
you realize they didn't examine the machines, right? Baltimike Jul 2019 #25
Russia and the Republican Party RIGGED dthe Election Tribalceltic Jul 2019 #22
The report states Turin_C3PO Jul 2019 #13
But not actual votes.. AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #16
you don't know that. nt Baltimike Jul 2019 #18
The report say it... AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #20
the report did not examine voting equipment Baltimike Jul 2019 #21
I've felt this since 9 pm election night. Hillary won. Election stolen NRaleighLiberal Jul 2019 #23
yup... HipChick Jul 2019 #27
+1 50 Shades Of Blue Jul 2019 #32
It truly was stunning shanti Jul 2019 #28
+1 dalton99a Jul 2019 #37
We know he is illegitimate. warmfeet Jul 2019 #30
Maybe rUSSRia will want someone else to win in 2020? Perhaps a socialist? erronis Jul 2019 #31
Russia was into 39 states* Botany Jul 2019 #35
Exactly. dalton99a Jul 2019 #39
Why is McConnell blocking election protection legislation.? triron Jul 2019 #41
+1. Gotta keep the door open and unlocked dalton99a Jul 2019 #42
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
2. Though portions were redacted, the number one conclusion was:
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 06:57 PM
Jul 2019

“The Committee has seen no evidence that any votes were changed or that any voting machines were manipulated.”

And not one Democratic member of the committee has said otherwise.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,349 posts)
5. prove my vote wasn't changed
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 07:06 PM
Jul 2019

If the opportunity is there, the presumption must be that it was used.

To prove it, there would have to be a witnessed paper trail, which does not exist in many states.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
9. Prove it was. We ought to be spending billions to safeguard system,
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 07:18 PM
Jul 2019

but not because “prove my vote was changed or counted.”

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,349 posts)
29. you cannot secure based on the presumption of security
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 09:33 PM
Jul 2019

If you presume the system already secure, in spite of all the reports to the contrary, then you have no reason to safeguard it. That's not logical.

Proving that a vote was changed or not counted is not possible without an unalterable record of each vote. This requires a physical ballot, not electronic.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
33. Well said,
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 10:11 PM
Jul 2019

It is a common right wing talking point, "there is no evidence that votes were changed." The problem with that logic is that there is no proof that any votes weren't changed. Show me one voting machine that was pulled out and independently audited. There aren't any because the voting machine owners claim proprietary rights for their software.

Hell, Mitch just ditched another bill that was passed by the House that would require all new voting machines be built in America. Yeah I know, what does that prove?

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,349 posts)
34. an electronic voting machine regurgitates as instructed
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 10:26 PM
Jul 2019

Even if the software was completely open source -- and it is mind-bogglingly idiotic for it to be closed -- it would be an enormous task to verify the code.

We've traded a secret ballot and verifiable election for a fast number from secretive corporations.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
36. Yeah, when I grew up with paper ballots, it was miscounts, lost ballot boxes, etc.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 10:46 PM
Jul 2019

Fortunately, most states have made major changes in their voting systems since 2016, and hopefully they and feds will do more in next year.

But, that doesn’t change what Report said, and no disagreement from Democratic senators have been noted.

We lost, there are plenty to blame besides seemingly mythical vote hackers.

yellowdogintexas

(22,256 posts)
24. I can use a vote by mail ballot because in Texas you can do this if you are over 65
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 09:09 PM
Jul 2019

Because I am a precinct chair, I can check our stats every day to see how many of my voters have returned their VBM ballots including mine and my husband's A little red note pops up that says 'voted'. Daily early voting numbers also show up.

This year we are getting new voting machines with electronic touch screens; (no more stupid wheels to turn to mark your vote!) after you choose your candidates you print the ballot. If you messed up you can bring it back to the Election Judge, who will spoil the ballot and give you a new access code so you can try a second time. WHen your ballot is completed and printed then you walk it over to the scanner which counts and stores it.

We are going to save a ton of $$ on paper, because we will no longer have to print 800 to 1000 ballots for a precinct which will have 150 voters show up. Unused blank ballot paper will just be stored until the next election. Also, we will have 100% paper ballots at Early Voting, ELection Day and with Vote By Mail.

As an ELection Judge I am so happy to have new machines which are not on line, with touch screens that print out the completed ballot. No more voters putting check marks or X marks in the box which often don't get counted because the scanner can't see them. These machines will fill in the whole box and thus be correctly scanned. These paper ballots will be saved for 2 years.

The other cool thing is the expansion of anywhere voting to Election Day. Basically, if you go to the wrong precinct to vote on election day, you are told to go vote in the correct one, and sometimes you can't get there. Well now if you come to the wrong precinct, we just let you vote. Now the new voting machines will be able to pull up the ballot for the correct precinct, then you vote the ballot and print it for counting. The electronic part does not count or store anything it just pulls up the correct ballot for that voter.

I can't wait to test it out.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,349 posts)
26. can you watch the electrons moving in the machines?
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 09:26 PM
Jul 2019

Electronic voting cannot be secured or verified.

When you touch the screen, you may be opening a garage door on the other side of town. You, as the voter, cannot verify that your vote was correctly gathered. All you can verify is that something about the machine changed. The public can verify that you touched the machine, but cannot verify that you cast a ballot.

When the machine spits out a number, it cannot be verified to be associated with the number of voters pressing something on the machine. It's just a number.

With paper ballots, the voter can verify his or her vote. The public can observe that a voter placed one and only one ballot into a verifiably secure container. The public can observe those ballots being counted and can verify the count.

Electronic voting gives a fast number at the expense of a secret ballot that can be publicly verified.

triron

(22,006 posts)
6. Did you look at the report? Even the findings were almost completely redacted.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 07:07 PM
Jul 2019

Why do you think that was?
For some reason some here on DU want to buy into
this cover up of election narrative that is being pushed by those who don't want
us to know the truth. I already know what your response will probably be but go ahead.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
10. That sentence wasn't redacted, and I can read.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 07:19 PM
Jul 2019

Clearly, the report should be used to appropriate billions to safeguard system.

bluestarone

(16,970 posts)
15. Absolutely! AND
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 07:26 PM
Jul 2019

I REALLY REALLY REALLY worry what they are going to do in 2020! 2016 was a trial and error. They will hit us hard!

warmfeet

(3,321 posts)
30. We know he is illegitimate.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 09:40 PM
Jul 2019

What are we going to do about it?

How do we save the system and ourselves along with it?

erronis

(15,287 posts)
31. Maybe rUSSRia will want someone else to win in 2020? Perhaps a socialist?
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 09:44 PM
Jul 2019

Just to be argumentative...

We'll have to second-guess all of our elections from now on. Federal, state, local. Maybe that's what the instigators want. Not so much to throw an election to a particularly stupid puppet but just to sow distrust in the system.

Botany

(70,515 posts)
35. Russia was into 39 states*
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 10:38 PM
Jul 2019
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-13/russian-breach-of-39-states-threatens-future-u-s-elections

* update all 50

Putin was not looking at the hardware and software of the operating systems of the electronic
voting machines, the central tabulators, and the voter d-base files just to have "a look around."

dalton99a

(81,513 posts)
39. Exactly.
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 10:57 PM
Jul 2019

And to those who say there is nothing funny going on, I have a very simple question:

If electronic voting is ok, why are they so scared to use it in Western Europe e.g. France and Germany?




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