Dear responsible gun owners:

[mac56]

Dear responsible gun owners:

Instead of digging in your heels right now, maybe you should get to work on your fellow hobbyists who AREN'T responsible gun owners.

Because I'll let you in on a secret: they're making you look very, very bad.

Signed, America

[HAB911]

1. Many people are saying

"Control your guns, or we will"

Many people are saying

[lostnfound]

2. AMEN. if they'd built a strong RESPONSIBLE association, they would have self-regulated long ago

How? By joining together to set standards for gun shops and distributors and eventually manufacturers — “we won’t buy from you if you don’t follow these principles or rules”. A lot of professions that are now licensed grew their own standards and protocols first. And consumer demand for safer equipment — thumbprint ID. Balance.

A “responsible gun owners seal of approval”... too late for that.

[hack89]

3. I don't know any white nationalists

Or deranged killers in general. But I will keep my eyes open in case I run into one.

[mac56]

4. That's good.

But you probably already know less extreme individuals who could use a helping hand.

[hack89]

5. Not really

My shooting club is predominantly family guys with steady jobs. If any have issues they hide it well.

[mac56]

6. You and they are lucky.

[Hoyt]

7. Gunners who spend time shooting at a range, definitely associate with racist gunners, if only

standing next to them. They many not flaunt the beliefs of the Klan, but there are definitely racists there.

[cynatnite]

14. There are definitely racists everywhere. n/t

[Hoyt]

20. More so on a shooting range.

[cynatnite]

21. I don't know how true that is...

I've been on a few in my day.

I've ran across more racists in the workplace than anywhere else.

[Hoyt]

23. Next time you get a chance, go to a shooting range, gun store, gun show. Tell us what you see.

[cynatnite]

24. I walked by a gun store one time...

You could hear Limpballs spewing from outside.

All I'm saying is that I haven't seen evidence that racists are more common at one place than another.

Well, unless it's a tRump rally. That's pretty definitive in my book.

[Marengo]

27. In my AO, there are often as many Hispanics as Anglos on the shooting ranges. I've frequently...

Seen groups of Asians as well. It’s been stated here on DU that POCs can’t be racist so take that for what it’s worth. Oh, and more often than not they are shooting ARs.

[Hoyt]

30. Probably practicing to defend against white wing racist gunners. Get rid of

white wing gunz, wouldn’t be necessary.

Glad you are keeping count.

[Marengo]

32. Actually, the AB Korean siblings I chatted with are more concerned about folks like you...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=45338

Their parents home having been burglarized. They also planning to hunt Elk this coming season.

[Hoyt]

33. Folks I talk to are more concerned about inveterate gun lovers who think

their needs trump everybody elses.

[Marengo]

34. You seem incapable of acknowledging the responsibility you bear in the proliferation of firearms.

It’s really quite simple, stay out of privately owned property and keeps your hands off stuff that doesn’t belong to you. Folks tend to be threatened by that, and some may decide to keep a gun or two because of that threat. The Korean kids I mentioned earlier aren’t “inveterate gun lovers”, they are normal people concerned for their safety and the security of their property. Both of which threatened by the likes of you. I cannot say for certain whether or not they would acquired firearms if not having been the victims of criminal antisocial behavior, which robbery and burglary most certainly are, but that seemed to be a significant contributor.

[gopiscrap]

29. totally agree

[hack89]

26. If you say so. Nt

[Aristus]

8. I hope all eleven of them are reading this.

[ScratchCat]

9. This would be a great idea

Except for the fact that the percentage of gun owners who are "irresponsible" doesn't even register on the radar as its a fraction of a fraction of a percent. I want gun violence to end as much as anyone, but there's nothing I can do to prevent some other person from committing a crime if I have no idea they are going to do so. I've told a few friends over the years they were carrying their weapon incorrectly in their car and other things like that. While I feel they were being "irresponsible" in ways, that's not mass murder.

And FYI, a quick google search come back with a reference stating about 46% of Americans own fire arms. So you are talking to half the country.

[maxsolomon]

18. 1 of anything is a fraction of a fraction of a percent.

this says 30%: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/12/27/facts-about-guns-in-united-states/
1/3 of the country.

if you count people unlucky enough to live with someone with a gun as gun owners, that's 41%.

57% don't have a gun. so that's 3/5 of the population living under the threat of the other 2/5 of the population.

[sarisataka]

10. It was only a very few years ago

I was very active in discussing gun control laws with fellow gun owners. I encouraged them to support UBC, red flag laws and other measures, that such laws will benefit everyone in the long run. My position was fairly well received by all but the most extreme gun owners. I like to believe I was able to sway some away from single issue voting and to supporting Democrats who align with their positions on other issues.

I also discussed similar measures with gun control proponents. While some were open to talking to someone from "the other side" most were not. From the others I was informed my opinion and assistance was neither welcome nor wanted. It was also noted my genitals are significantly below average size, I am a racist and probably should be handled with "extreme prejudice" by law enforcement.

I don't go out of my way to discuss gun laws anymore

[gratuitous]

11. That's unfortunate that the gun grabbers, sorry, gun control proponents didn't want to talk to you

Can you think of any reason why people in favor of reasonable regulation of firearms might be chary of discussing the subject with a random gun owner? Given the history of the discussion of gun rights in the country, can you think of any reason why some people might take the position that gun owners have forfeited their right to participate in the discussion?

[sarisataka]

12. If gun owners

Who are in favor of and support gun control legislation have already been disqualified from participating in the discussion, why do people keep demanding gun owners participate in, or even take the lead, the discussion?

[gratuitous]

13. So you can't think of a reason

So you can't think of any reason at all, none whatsoever, why some people feel that gun owners have disqualified themselves from any further discussion of the regulation of firearms? I appreciate your attempt to twist my question, which sort of provides the answer in and of itself.

[sarisataka]

16. You want to know if I can think

Of a reason every gun owner should be disqualified from discussing gun control?

I can't think of one unless you hold an entire group guilty for the actions of a few. I would think if you want to regulate something i would think users of that item who support regulation would be valuable. If you have another reason, I am listening.

Can you do the courtesy of answering my question?

[gratuitous]

25. So we agree

You can't think of even one reason why some people feel that gun owners have forfeited their right to participate in any further discussions of firearm regulation.

As to your question, why shouldn't all gun owners be lumped together? Where were the responsible gun owners when the assault weapons ban was enacted? Where were they when it expired? Where have gun owners been whenever legislation regulating firearms is about to get to a vote in a state legislature or Congress? They have been, to a man, on the side of the opposition to requiring background checks. They have been opposed to "red flag" warnings as a reason for denying someone their firearms. They have been in favor of "shall issue" legislation that overcomes all reasonable objections to any particular person getting his hands on a gun. And the result of gun owners' efforts has been the predictable continuation of gun violence in our society, at a rate unheard-of in the rest of the world. The blood and the carnage have continued unabated, thanks to the efforts of gun owners and their outsize influence on law-making bodies across the country. Why should they be invited back to monkey-wrench the process even more? Because that's all gun owners - even the allegedly responsible ones - do.

[sarisataka]

28. I do appreciate your reply

To rebut

Why shouldn't all gun owners be lumped together?
Perhaps because not all gun owners are the same. Some are POC, some are women, some are LGBTQ, some are Democrats, some have jobs that require them to be armed, some are facing threats of harm or death from previous relationships and some are even white males.

In all of the things you mentioned I have never seen opposition "to a man". I have always experienced a range from totally opposed to totally supportive. That was true of non gun owners as well. Now it is true that those opposed are the most vocal which may give a false impression.

Numbers vary but there may be up to 100 million gun owners in this country. To allow for error let's cut that in half and day it is actually 50 million. The NRA has about 5 million members, leaving 45 million on the table so to speak. Say 20% are other extremists or hard core Republicans who will oppose gun control simply on party lines. That still leaves 36 million voters who may at least listen to your message.

So you present the Democratic platform to those 36 million, including gun control. Are all going to agree? Of course not. But how many might? 25%? 30%? 50? Is gun control doing so well they can ignore 18 million additional supporters? When effect would 9 million additional votes done for Democrats in 2016?

Now say instead you broad brush this group as a monolithic block of people opposed to you. Will they all vote against you? Probably not, instead they will do what most people would choose to do- nothing. They won't support you, they won't vote for your candidates, they will just stay home.

I will pose to rhetorical questions, who most benefits by non-votes? Which party is more likely to tap into this group and get their votes in later elections?

[ChoppinBroccoli]

15. I Never Bought That Whole "Responsible Gun Owners" Argument

For a couple of different reasons. First of all, as was pointed out in a really good article I read about a year ago, ALL gun owners are "responsible gun owners"............until they're not. I'm sure none of these mass shooters ever shot anyone BEFORE they went out and massacred people en masse. And it's hard to be able to tell the responsible gun owners from the irresponsible ones (especially when you don't do ANY kind of background checking or mental health assessments..........Congress, I'm looking at you).

The other reason is because you don't you hear that argument made for ANY other kind of crime. When was the last time you heard drunk driving advocates on TV pleading for us to respect the rights of the millions of "RESPONSIBLE drunk drivers" who don't crash their cars or kill ANYONE, and make it home safe?

How about in States like mine (Ohio) where your 4th of July fireworks are illegal? Which, in and of itself, is hilarious to me. You can walk into Wal-Mart and buy an assault weapon, but you have to smuggle SPARKLERS across the border because they're considered "dangerous ordinance." That's rich, isn't it? Fireworks are "dangerous ordinance" but guns aren't.

What about all the RESPONSIBLE heroin users? What about all the RESPONSIBLE people who keep live tigers in their back yards?

You never see that logic applied to anything else banned by the law.

Besides, I don't get why gun lovers love guns so much. They literally love their guns more than anything else. I love pizza, but if you can show me that by banning pizza, it can save 40,000 lives per year, I'm giving up pizza. Oh wait..........even if you ban pizza, people will still find a way to get pizza, right? Whatever. So sick of these petty arguments.

[Kaleva]

19. There are millions who drink responsibly

I imagine there are responsible recreational drug users. There's a big difference between a person who smokes a joint on occasion and a meth head.

[Kaleva]

17. Dear responsible voters:

Dear responsible voters:

Instead of digging in your heels right now, maybe you should get to work on your fellow citizens who AREN'T responsible voters.

Because I'll let you in on a secret: they're making you look very, very bad.

Signed, America

Irresponsible voters put into office politicians who oppose sensible gun control laws .

[maxsolomon]

22. The Gilroy shooter bought his gun 3 weeks before he used it.

Allen Ivanov (Mukilteo, WA, 2016) bought his gun a week before. He'd never fired it previously. He read the instruction manual in his car and killed 3 people.

These were barely gun owners. They purchased their weapons with the intent of slaughter. We can stop that by asking 1st time gun buyers to keep their pants on and telling Gun Show/CL sellers to fuck off.

Under 30? LONG waiting periods. 6 months, a year, depending on the weapon.

????? ???? my ass.

[Joe941]

31. I'd give up my guns if it made everyone safer...

but my question to everyone is this: Do you think me not having a gun locked up in my house and the key hidden is going to make you safer? Taking my gun won't help anyone, just make me unable to protect my family.