It is absurd for John Heilemann to be lecturing people about racism.

[StevieM]

This guy helped spread the lie that Hillary was behind the birther myth. She played no role what-so-ever in that story. She was never even accused of it in 2008, back when people were accusing her of everything under the sun.

People who claim that HRC was the original birther are helping to cover up the reality behind the story. And that cover-up is part of what enables the story, because it exempts the guilty parties from responsibility for what they did.

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Can you provide links to your assertion?

Thanks in advance!

[BigmanPigman]

3. I think he was just on MSNBC with N Wallace

and he was talking with John Walsh.

[maxsolomon]

7. No, the "Hillary started the Birthers" rumor the OP is citing.

that's what we don't remember.

[BigmanPigman]

8. I don't know where that came from either.

[mcar]

14. Dotard and the Rs have long said that

As did some on the far left.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/birther-movement-founder-trump-clinton-228304

[maxsolomon]

2. Is this back in 2008?

During the primary?

Some sort of source would help - I don't remember this, or Heilemann's role. Was he on the McCain campaign?

[kentuck]

4. I don't remember that, either?

A link might help?

[StevieM]

10. Nope, it was never mentioned in 2008. That's my point.

John Heilemann is a journalist on MSNBC. He and Joe Scarborough helped spread the lie, back in 2016, that HRC was involved in birtherism. He was just on MSNBC today, lecturing about racism.

[maxsolomon]

11. Is this what you're talking about?

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/jon-favreau-ari-fleischer-clinton-obama-birther-228282

Heilemann denies that.

[StevieM]

12. I was referring to a segment on Morning Joe back in 2015.

Scarborough and Heilemann spread the lie that Hillary started birtherism.

This link is from 2016, when Joe and Mika back down a little. They actually started lying about this in 2015.

https://www.npr.org/2016/09/16/494231607/the-trump-campaign-s-birther-statement-a-close-reading

[maxsolomon]

13. OK, but it's essentially the same story.

Essentially: on a segment of Morning Joe in 2015, Heilemann (and Mika/Joe) agreed with a lie being circulated by the Trump campaign.

snip: <The show seems to have since backed off somewhat — Friday morning, Scarborough acknowledged that FactCheck has found that Clinton supporters were the ones who advanced the idea in 2008. However, he also highlighted an incident from 2008 in which Obama accused Clinton of not doing enough to shut down her supporters' (and Judy Rose's) rumors about his religion.>

Heilemann says he was talking about the "Muslim" rumors, not the Birther bullshit. So maybe he can still have the opinion that Racism is bad?

Regardless, here we are, arguing over minutiae while the Trump skates on the Birther slander.

[StevieM]

15. My point is that part of the reason Trump skated is the lie that was told by Joe, Mike and John.

People like them helped Trump act like his role was less than what it was, and that both candidates (Trump and HRC) has made an issue of this in the past.

Also, it is misleading to say that Clinton supporters advanced the idea. Birtherism was never an issue in the 2008 primaries, or even the general election.

And Hillary and Obama both had 18 million supporters in that race. Of course a few of those 18 million people would repeat crazy conspiracy theories to someone. But this was never a factor in the race, or even a discussion in the race. It wasn't on anyone's radar, and nobody accused Hillary of doing this--even though she was accused of just about everything else in that race.

[maxsolomon]

17. I never heard it from "Clinton supporters", and I was on DU in 2008, like anyone else.

It sounds like that trio of never-Trumpers (and NPR) got fooled by the Trump Campaign's Russian-branded Firehose of Falsity technique when Asshole distanced himself from Birtherism (and the MSM basically dropped it).

It would be interesting to hear them reflect on it now.

[Hortensis]

5. Only dishonestly malicious people and deluded wingnuts ever

believed that nonsense. We can't worry about them. They are what they are. We need to focus on inspiring better people to get themselves to the polls.

As for Heilman, what do we expect? The entire Morning Joe crowd is paid to help keep power in Republican hands. That's what they are.

[Hekate]

6. Heileman is full of himself. Walsh, otoh, IS PRIMARYING THE PRESIDENT. Good...

Whether he has truly had a Come To Jesus moment or not, he is framing his narrative in terms his intended audience can understand, and his main message is that Trump is unfit for office and must go.

I can get behind that.

[nolabear]

9. If we attack everybody we'll have nobody.

It’s not okay that he participated in that. But I’ll take him saying what others are afraid to and thank him for it. We’ll extinguish ourselves if we require perfection.

[StarfishSaver]

16. Heileman was dead on and I'm glad he called Walsh a racist to his face

I wish more people would show the boldness he did today.