What to say to religious relatives who think homosexuality is a 'choice.'

[rustysgurl]

I was talking this week with a relative, who is a 'born again' Christian. We were watching the news, and a story about homosexuality and how the LGBTQ community is treated, was aired. I said it was a shame that people couldn't accept each other and how "un-Christian" it was for them to be judged. (I know, I was dancing on the minefield). Typically she soft pedals her response, but this time she came out with guns blazing. She stated that we are all born with 'faults,' such as having a short temper, etc., and that God gives us the ability to overcome these faults, homosexuality included. Yes, she likened being homosexual to having a bad temper, and that it was something an individual "chose" not to get over. She started quoting chapter and verse how God makes it perfectly clear in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin, blah blah blah. There are so many things I wanted to say, but knew that there was NOTHING I could say that would change her mind, nor nothing she could say that would convince me she was right. So, I chose not to argue (yes, I was a coward, or maybe I just practiced discretion). In my view, the Bible was written by men, and that (in and of itself) makes me view it as a guide, rather than a black & white map on how to live my life. I pretty much clammed up during our conversation, and later she apologized if she "offended" me.

This relative's son has come out, and she (magnanimously) says she loves him but that it grieves her to know that he will not "share in the Kingdom of Heaven" with her because he "chooses" to be homosexual. Knowing that her son feels judged and rejected by his own mother causes me pain, but again, I cannot convince her otherwise. Sanctimonious doesn't even begin to describe it. She and her husband are legalists in the sense that they believe it is their duty to take a hard stance against anything God says is wrong (in their view), even if it means rejecting their own child. I cannot countenance such rigidity -- it hurts my heart to be around it.

I am spiritual and do believe in God, but I do not attend and choose to practice my faith through good works and kindness to others. I do not want to sever my relationship with this relative. I believe severing the relationship is a judgmental act on my part, and no better than she is, if that makes sense. How do I reconcile this?

I know many others have experienced this in their own families. It pains me that the divisiveness over issues in this country and our world has hit so close to home.

[guillaumeb]

1. What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Or abortion?

Nothing at all. And if they are Christians, that is all they need to know on these matters.

[RKP5637]

12. They make up crap as they go along to suit their controlling ways!!! n/t

[Kaleva]

18. Or about slavery? Or the death penalty?

[guillaumeb]

43. Or about the rich? And paying taxes?

Ask them about that as well.

[Kaleva]

46. Jesus did talk about the rich and paying taxes but he didn't about slavery, the death peanlty,

or homosexuality.

[Major Nikon]

49. He did talk about the death penalty

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+7%3A10&version=NIV

[Dr Hobbitstein]

2. I find "get the fuck out of my house" to be apropos.

Of course, if they’re not in your house while being homophobic, there’s always a “fuck off” before hanging up the phone/walking away.

[Moostache]

3. Or just "get out"...

More dramatic?

"Darken my doorstep no more."

[Gelliebeans]

15. Yeah

That’s about where I am at now. Fuck em.

[RKP5637]

21. Yep, life is too short to deal with people like this! Fuck them! They are psychologically deranged

and talking to them is a waste of time.

[Baltimike]

62. In Genesis, the Bible says not to alter the Lord's word

and the Lord says to love everyone, and don't judge them.

After that, the first *FUCKING* Commandment says not to take other Gods before God, so who are they to substitute their judgement for Hers?

I'd be clutching my chest in SHOCK that anyone tried to judge God's child.

[RKP5637]

63. Most of them probably never read it and would call it fake! They are idiots!!! n/t

[Baltimike]

64. indeed. It's just important to point out that THEY are the affront to Xanity, not LGBTQ

nt

[RKP5637]

65. Yep!!! n/t

[doc03]

4. I think we waste our breath arguing with them.

I don't get if someone is straight what in the hell does it hurt them if another person is gay. I am 71 years old and have never been hit on by another "gay" man but there have been maybe 5 or 6 so called straight men that are married to women that have. Just say you aren't interested that's all.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Ask them when they made their decision to be heterosexual.

[Blue_true]

32. Excellent question. I have to remember that one. nt

[The Blue Flower]

52. That's my response

If sexuality is a choice, then they must have made a choice, too.

[ms liberty]

36. This. n/t

[Dave Starsky]

81. Exactly. This.

Ask them at what time in their lives they thought that homosexuality and heterosexuality were both attractive options, and they just decided to be straight because that's what Jesus wants.

I have shut down many a homophobic right-winger with this. They have no answer.

[Thomas Hurt]

6. If they really believe that then that should be able to tell...

you how they were attracted to both boys and girls in high school. How they thought the QB and the head cheer leader were hot and how one day they just had to make a choice.

[ms liberty]

37. Good way to put it. n/t

[irisblue]

42. But there are people who are attracted

A persons qualities, not a gender or the body parts
It can be very fluid, so I don't think that is quite the best to say

[Thomas Hurt]

45. that what the reality is, not what these people believe.

pansexual or bi is the same thing to them a choice.

Besides it not what I would say, but what they should be able to tell you. They aren't going to admit to being gay or fluid.

[irisblue]

47. Yeah & thx for the reply, if the.parents are so upset over being gay

Pan and Bi and Fluid...🤯🤯🤯

[3catwoman3]

7. Exactly. Ask her when she...

...decided she liked guys.

I asked that question once to a man at a gym we used to go to. “Tony, when did you decide you liked girls.” He had no answer.

[GoCubsGo]

17. That's what I usually ask, as well.

I'll also ask why anyone would choose to be gay, knowing that people are going to treat them like shit, discriminate against them, possibly beat them, kill them, or otherwise make their lives miserable? They never have an answer for that, either.

[Doodley]

8. There are so many verses on the folly of judging others. Use some. If she wants to follow the word

of Jesus, it is not for her to declare who is a sinner. Second, follow the example of Jesus, for he surrounded himself with those who were rejected by society. She should be a good Christian, if that is what she believes, and not a self-righteous bigot.

[unitedwethrive]

9. I've always found that those who are the most homophobic, are also the most internally conflicted

about their own sexuality.

And yes, I would say just that.

[RKP5637]

16. Definitely!!! That is seen over and over and over again. I find people that stick their noses into

others sex organs and preach about it to be more than a little strange and weird. Frankly, I've never met people like this that weren't fucked up, besides their obsessive compulsive behavior about others sex lives.

[redstateblues]

10. American Christianity is a far cry from the message

That Jesus spread. As a matter of fact I think he would be hanging out with gay folks. Lot of bad religion in this country.

[RKP5637]

22. Religion in the US is a bunch of crap!!! n/t

[Wounded Bear]

11. I like to say, "Who gives a shit if it's a choice?"

For Christ's sake, why is that even important? It's important to them because they don't want to believe it's "natural." Of course, homosexuality seems to be expressed in almost all mammal species. Happens all the time, in zoos and in the wild. So generally, homosexuality is inherent for most who profess that.

But so what? Some people like to experiment and excercise their sexuality to see what really works for them.

Frankly, in a supposedly free society forcing people to conform to a very narrow definition of sexuality is pretty fucking medieval and authoritarian.

They're gay, or their acting gay, or experimenting to see if they really are gay. Who cares? Not my issue.

Oh, and can we stop adding letters to the acronym? It's getting to where it's too hard to type.

[GoCubsGo]

20. Exactly. And, why are some so concerned about

what other consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms? They need to mind their own fucking business.

[cwydro]

55. It's not.

[Wellstone ruled]

13. Have a

Nephew is Gay. The sad part is,his Father will never admit his son is Gay. Yet,he will talk on the phone with him several times a week. And when I ask about him,talk about a change of topic.

Guess my Brother needs to keep up the Fascist Hate Image.

[toddwv]

14. There's nothing you can say

especially to a "born-again" Christian. They're usually the most ardent in their newly found beliefs as if they are try twice as hard to make up for lost time.

[RKP5637]

25. I find them to be extremely weak people who have found something to cling to and like the

group think of hatred that binds them together. Someone tells me they've got religion, I tell them to fuck off. I want nothing to do with them and their crap.

[elleng]

19. Discretion

[Kaleva]

23. If I'm with a relative or friend, we don't spend time watching the news.

[XRubicon]

24. Nothing.

Ever again.

[mr_lebowski]

26. To the great responses above, I would ask ... 'exactly where does God make it clear that being gay

is a sin'?

Are you referring to Leviticus, wherein it's claimed to be an 'abomination'? She probably doesn't even know and would just say 'yes, that's where!'

To which I would ask her whether she's ever eaten Lobster, Crab, or Shrimp?

And when she says 'of course', I would point out that it also says in Leviticus that eating Shellfish is 'A Sin' ... Then I'd ask if she's ever worn more than one fiber at one time ... i.e. has she ever worn a cotton/wool blend? And when she again says 'yes' I'd point that this makes her a sinner, per Leviticus.

Then I'd ask her if she was a virgin when she got married to her current husband? When she says 'No' I'd say 'do you realize that, according to the Bible, your husband should've been able to legally murder you, unless your father paid him a sizable chunk of cash?'

I could go on and on with examples of ridiculousness in 'The Bible' with regards to what 'GAWD' supposedly 'said'.

If you want to argue with these nutjobs, it's a good idea to have knowledge of such things on hand.

Another fun one is that its written in Leviticus that, as a father, you can kill your children if they talk back to you or disrespect you.

Ask her how much she'd support 'God's Word' if her husband killed their child ... because the child disrespected him?

[Aristus]

41. Best rendition of this concept ever:

[FM123]

76. the "ignorant tightass club" - loved that!

[ismnotwasm]

27. Actually it's not clear from what I understand

Prohibitions had more to do with things such as other kinds of worship in direct opposition of the Old Testament Jews. It was a heavy political time, spanning centuries. In other words, more human machinations than godly law. Early Christians took this and ran with it, vying for political power, and spiritual souls.

And no one is ever gonna convince me there wasn’t something going on between David and Jonathan.

Anyway

I cut bigots out without much of a thought. What happened with us, is family choose not to say offensive things. I can’t change them. They know how I feel. How I strongly feel. (If I were religious, bigotry would be the greatest sin)

My family members are not religious. They are just bigots. Because of this agreement we can see each other one or twice a year.

[Garrett78]

28. I like to tell the tale of the year I chose my sexual orientation. It goes like this:

It was a rainy Saturday afternoon, I was bored and I had just turned 12 the weekend before. I decided it was time to chose which sex (or gender identity) I would be attracted to for the remainder of my life. Needless to say, this was a monumental decision, so I engaged in some pretty thorough research over the next several months. I read books and microfiche articles at the local library (pre-Internet days). I also interviewed people from all across the sexual identity spectrum. I made a long list of pros and cons. I spent the next 2 weeks poring over the list. Ultimately, while on summer break in 1990, I decided that I would be heterosexual. My parents were both proud and relieved.

So, how did you choose your sexual orientation?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. And after you've asked them when they chose to be heterosexual,

ask them why they think a person would intentionally choose a characteristic that subjects them to ridicule, ostracism and discrimination in many communities, even to the point of risking physical danger, and would cause their own families to reject them and tell them God will condemn them to Hell?

[phylny]

59. My mother's cousin Paul was gay, as was another cousin, plus the nephew of that cousin, & my cousin.

He and the other cousin of my mom both died of AIDS in the early 90s. He said, "No one would choose this - to live like this." Yes, in our family. we know it's genetic.

[Blue_true]

31. She tripped herself up before starting the bible verse stuff.

It seem (if I read your post correctly) like she said that God created LGBTQ people to "test" them and gave them the means to "fix" themselves. You could have asked several questions of her once she said that.

First question:
If God didn't really want LGBTQ people to exist as such, why would God create them to begin with? Clearly God intends for them to exist and be excepted as what they were created as.

Second Question:
If God created LGBTQ people and you want them gone, aren't you defying God's will?

[Mister Ed]

33. Tell 'em, "You're right, you know. They're just doing it to get you upset."

"But you can outfox them. Just always act like you don't even notice. And never let on that it even bothers you. That'll fix 'em!"

[MurrayDelph]

34. Back when I was a cute young Jewish man in 1970's Los Angeles,

I found it interesting how many gay men took the "sorry, not interested" in stride, compared to how many evangelists took it as a challenge or threat.

I've tried pointing out to them that there is more scientific basis for people being born gay than there is for being born Christian, otherwise why are they trying to recruit me? Never got a good answer.

[bluestarone]

35. I'd tell them that i leave that decision up to the LORD! not our concern!

Let Jesus decide what is right and what is wrong!

[SWBTATTReg]

38. Judge not, least you be judged...

Also, I tell them that its none of their damn business what goes on in my bedroom.

[StarryNite]

39. They believe the Bible was written by men...

...only men and God inspired those men at that. So in other words, God wrote the Bible through them. How do we know this? Because the men who wrote it said so and that to the believers makes it so. Circular reasoning. As a woman I could never believe in a book that says I'm inferior to men or to anyone. I can't stand man created organized religion.

[Johnny2X2X]

40. I always then ask when they chose to be straight.

I’ve been in conversations with guys who say it’s a choice. I always ask them when they chose to be straight? If I know them I then ask them, “so you could just choose to have sex with a man here? Which one?”

If I really know them well, I might be vulgar and say something like, “so sucking D*** is totally something you could choose to do, but you choose not to? It’s totally an option for you then?”

[Martin Eden]

44. Perhaps you can show her the Sharon Underwood letter

If this has no effect, then nothing will.

This editorial is from Sunday's Concord Monitor. Sunday, April 30, 2000

By SHARON UNDERWOOD



As the mother of a gay son, I've seen firsthand how cruel and misguided people can be. Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I've taken enough from you good people. I'm tired of your foolish rhetoric about the "homosexual agenda" and your allegations that accepting homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of motherhood ever since my children were tiny.

My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay. He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the other boys. He was called "fag" incessantly, starting when he was 6.

In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn't bear to continue living any longer, that he didn't want to be gay and that he couldn't face a life without dignity.

You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don't know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn't put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could think, and it's about time you started doing that.

At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won't get to choose. Whether it is genetic I don't know. I can only tell you that it is inborn.

If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it. For those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-step program, I'm puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you could change it at will? If that's not the case, then why would you suggest that someone else can?

A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I'll thank you to stop saying that you are speaking for "true Vermonters."

You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn't give their lives so that the "homosexual agenda" could tear down the principles they died defending. My 83-year-old father fought in some of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded the Purple Heart. He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn't the measure of the man.

You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your sensibilities that he should request the right to visit that companion in the hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax laws governing inheritance.

How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of marriage. You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be thinking human beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.

The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about "those of us who have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing" asks: "Whatever happened to the idea of striving… to be better human beings than we are?"

Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?

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[Duppers]

48. Heard this a lot...

"good works and kindness to others."

That seems to imply that atheists don't do good works nor are kind to others, that we're incapable of good deeds and that only theists are capable of morality. Empathy is the basis of morality, not religion.

[rustysgurl]

51. I never implied atheists don't do good words or practice kindness.

I was speaking of myself and how I practice my faith, as opposed to attending a brick & mortar church, tithing, etc. Everyone can do good works and practice kindness, no matter their beliefs. Stop being so damned defensive.

[lunatica]

50. If god is the creator of ALL things

why would he hate part of his creation? Why would he demand that part of his creation hate the other part?

[vlyons]

53. Give up trying to reason with her

It's a waste of time and effort. The best thing that you can say is, "I don't agree with your beliefs, but than-you for sharing your point of view." and just leave it at that.

[The Wizard]

54. Ask them at what age

they decided to be hetrosexual.

[onecaliberal]

56. Read what Hebrews says about legalists. She is clearly flat wrong.

The greatest of these is Love.

In the eyes of god no sin is greater than another. She refuses to see the plank in her own eye, incapable of taking their own inventory, always to busy taking everyone else’s.

[Skidmore]

57. What about her child who she loved

before is not present in who he is now, except that she now has more knowledge about the person he is. It's not up to her to decide his path or relationship to her God, who undoubtedly created her child with all that is present within his person.

My grandson came out as a teen. My daughter came out in her forties. How we relate to each other is defined by being present for each other with the same love and tenderness we felt when we first met at birth, the sweetest and purest moment of our lives. If she can touch that moment, she will understand the teaching of " God is love." Being present in love for one another without judgment and acknowledging each other's humanity.

For her son's sake, I hope she can remember she was his mother before she started drawing religion into the relationship.

[The Genealogist]

58. I don't know what to tell you

You mention that your relative and her husband are a "legalist(s)" who "take a hard stance against anything God says is wrong (in their view)." I take this to mean that they magnify some portions of "God's Law" while ignoring what doesn't fit their worldview. I find little value in arguing with such people. They are going to believe what they want, no matter how illogical and demonstrably false their beliefs are.

I am a gay man. As I was sexually maturing, I never sat down one evening after school with a little list of pros and cons of being gay or straight, and chose which one I was. It just happened. Sometimes "when did you choose to be straight?" works. I have used the question effectively myself to help someone change how they view homosexuality. It doesn't always. I doubt that it will work with this relative.

I'm also sorry that their son has to have parents like that. I'm sure it is painful for him.

[Baltimike]

60. He's gay because GOD made him that way, and the 10 C's say not to lie, so....nt

[Vinca]

61. If she really believes the BS, tell her gays and lesbians were created by God and, therefore,

are perfect in his eyes. Then say she's the one with the problem.

[Demovictory9]

66. "(I know, I was dancing on the minefield). "

yes, you were. Her time is past. She'll age out of existence, as we all will, and the next (more tolerant) gen will take over

[dawg]

67. I'd tell them that if it's a choice ...

then don't choose it.

And to mind their own damned business with regards to anyone else.

[Odoreida]

68. Well if you want to get technical ...

The Old Testament unequivocally says death penalty offense, and Apostle Paul reiterates this in the New Testament.

So arguing about "choice" addresses a non-biblical ethical category that has even infected fundamentalism.

The Bible is chock full of things like this, not just for gay stuff.

[mnhtnbb]

69. You have the option to tell her

that the Bible was written by men in a time when scientific knowledge was limited and the culture was, too.

Tell her she can believe whatever she wants, but that you choose to live in the 21st Century informed by science, a culture of democracy (not Masters and slaves), and guided by the greatest commandment to love one another.

Then get up and walk away if she wants to continue spewing her ancient, patriarchal Bible bullshit.

[DFW]

70. I have no patience for people who "take a hard stance against anything God says is wrong."

They have never heard their (or any other) God or any say ANYTHING is wrong or right. They have never seen anything written in their god's hand. They decide to believe a bunch of things fed to them (their right, of course) by their parents or elders. However, they are either blind or indifferent (or both) to the suffering they inflict on others, and apparently they prefer misery they bring to their family to softening their rigidity.

Unless they use LSD regularly, they will never hear their deity tell them, "you're right, I'm right, everyone else is wrong." And yet, they conduct their lives as if they had. What perverse arrogance. They are terrified they might be wrong, so they cloak themselves in the impenetrable armor of certitude. They are certain of something no one ever CAN be certain. That is why it is called "faith" and not "knowledge."

[moondust]

71. I would probably ask them

if they believe in genetics. If they say no I would forget about trying to explain anything to them. If they say yes I would explain to them that I believe it is about genetic balance--how dominant are the X and Y chomosomes an individual is born with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

[Sophia_Of_PlanetX]

72. Imo, the question should not be what the Bible says about homosexuality. It s/b why anyone cares?

This is the same Bible that also says:

- Stone your wife to death if she is not a virgin on her wedding night.
- Owning slaves is permissible and encouraged. If you beat them, however, be sure not to kill them.
- If your child is especially rebellious, your entire town should stone them to death
- Women who are raped must marry their rapist, and the rapist must pay the woman's father.

Also featured in the bible:

- Endorsement of genocide
- Incest / rape
- Murdering children for the most arbitrary of reasons, e.g. summoning a bear to rip kids apart

The "God" in the Bible is objectively awful, and is not worthy of worship.

[TexasBushwhacker]

73. I thought Jesus died for EVERYONE'S sins

He didn't cherry pick which sins were forgiven and neither should she.

[VOX]

74. The only "choice" involved here is that Christianists CHOOSE to remain ignorant.

Seriously, why would an allegedly "loving" Sky Daddy deliberately give “faults” or disabilities to what Christianists term “innocent life”? Supposedly, in a genuinely fucked-up theology, god then gets to test them to see if they can make it without dying young or committing suicide. That’s an incredibly sadistic and heartless belief, the kind that leads to self-destructive behaviors, aggression and internal conflict.

Claiming that one’s own offspring is going to hell (if not “sharing in the Kingdom of Heaven,” then where else?) is a monstrous thing to do.

Real or concocted, Jesus was a radical revolutionary force, breaking up corruption and defying the Roman-occupation rules and constraints. Did he hang out with the pious and holy? Hell no, he hung out with prostitutes, thieves, tax collectors, the poor, the sick and dying— misfits all. Those were his kind of people, the marginals and castoffs.

The “real” Jesus is portrayed as an all-for-one, one-for-all” fellow. Some selected scripture that Republicans and Trumpists CHOOSE to disregard:

“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.”

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you”

And from the beatitudes, which the evangelicals **rarely** cite (too much love, not enough Old Testament vengeance):
-Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
-Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
-Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

[LanternWaste]

75. Late to the convo, but try this: "when did you decide to be left/right handed?"

In the Bible, the admonitions against being left-handed is referenced three time as much as same-sex sex.

As a lefty (and Christian) whose extended family is made primarily of conservative fundies, I quote scripture (Judges and Chronicles contain the most reference to southpaws), expecting (and receiving) the reponse, "well, that's just a metaphor." To which I answer, "Grandma was left-handed and it was beaten out of her at school. Do we use 'metaphor' as an excuse to rationalize the progress of civilization when it suits us, or do apply this consistently?"

"That's Just a Metaphor" is the open door you can effectively use.

[HopeAgain]

77. Nothing

You aren't going to change their minds and in turn, you are going to get upset trying. It's not worth the mental stress to try and change this other person's thinking. A belief not founded on any logic is not going to be changed by logic.

[snowybirdie]

78. My first reaction

was that ignore this person's homophobia. Instead make an effort to embrace and support her son. He should know there are those that love him as he is. That will help him feel love plus drive his mother nuts to see her son become close to you.

[Cracklin Charlie]

79. What if it was a choice?

Why is their choice wrong? Or right?

Who cares?

[SharonAnn]

80. I just tell them I'm a "red letter Christian".

That I try to follow the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament (traditionally printed in red in some Bibles) and since he didn't say anything about homosexuality or abortion, he didn't take a position against them. He did, however, have things to say about the wealthy and the money-changers at the temple.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

82. My general attitude is, so what if it *is* a choice?

I don't believe it actually is a choice but RELIGION *is* a choice and it's viewed as legitimate and legally protected.

Also, you are not obligated to maintain a relationship with people with toxic beliefs or attitudes.

[JCMach1]

83. You can't argue rationally with irrationality...