A few months ago, some people were really upset at the thought that Mueller and other witnesses

[StarfishSaver]

might testify out of public view.

Some of us tried to explain that testimony need not be public to be effective and, in fact, testimony out of public view is often much more useful. Among other things, the committees can elicit more information, reduce the reality show "did he look good on teevee" obsessions, and shut down the opportunities for Republicans to turn the testimony into a shishshow.

Now we're seeing the value of testimony being given in closed session.

[TwilightZone]

1. It also makes for better soundbites.

Not literally soundbites, of course, but closed hearings tend to get boiled down to the important points; in this case, those points are incredibly damaging to Trump.

[Mike 03]

2. For all the reasons you mentioned and also it's crucial witnesses in the same "trial" not

see each other's testimony. That's why in a criminal proceeding witnesses are barred from attending the trial until after they've testified, or forbidden to watch the trial on TV. It's really tempting to finesse your testimony so it accords with what other witnesses are saying. It can also cause you to doubt something you think you know and thereby omit something important.

All good points you make.

[tableturner]

3. Many will be testifying publicly soon, which will dramatically help drive public opinion.

That is what was behind the desire for Muller to testify publicly. In this case, there WILL be a public airing. It should be intuitively obvious that such a dramatic public airing by the recent committee witnesses will add much extra fuel to the impeachment fire. Yes....part of this process is a very important, absolutely necessary, PR campaign to get the public behind the effort. The end result of that PR campaign will definitely be based on much more than the closed testimony.

[StarfishSaver]

8. Yes. It the public testimony will be informed and shaped by the closed door testimony

The Members will already have the evidence and a very clear roadmap, including sworn testimony. They won't be going into the public hearings hearing testimony and information for the first time and not already knowing the answers to their questions and not having a clear plan for where they're going, what they need to get there and what they don't need.

They will be able to ensure that the public relations value of the public hearings is huge - they'll tell a solid story with a distinct narrative and the goods to back it up.

[dem4decades]

4. It's only valuable when it eventually becomes public. Mueller failed.

[StarfishSaver]

10. It's already becoming public, every day

And, so far, everything that's come out has been hugely damaging to Trump and has pretty much shut down his Congressional defenders, leaving them to just daily whines about process. The narrative is forming and when the full public hearings are held, the public will have been printed and it's likely to be devastating.

This couldn't have happened with a series of Lewandowski-style hearings or by threatening to drag people to jail in the Capitol basement.

[dem4decades]

16. I agree with this inquiry. It will be a public trial

Mueller's shit is still secret.

[pnwmom]

17. Mueller didn't get the glory. But we KNOW that he passed on multiple investigations

that weren't part of his specific mandate to the SDNY US Attorney, and other US Attorneys.

How do you know none of those investigations that he passed to other prosecutors will come to fruition?

How do you know, for example, that the cases of Parnas and Fruman didn't begin with Mueller's team?

We may never know in our lifetimes, and Mueller doesn't care if he gets the credit.

[quakerboy]

18. In purpose

Mueller softballed the whole thing. Did just enough to cya if things broke against trump, but not enough to cause real problems for himself if trump held power. A few scapegoats to make it all look real, but no more

[MyOwnPeace]

26. What "problems" could IQ45 do?

I don't understand why Mueller "softballed" the whole thing. He had NOTHING to lose - except respect from one side or the other - and it was "assumed" that the Repugs had NO respect for him anyhow after the months of s**t IQ45 had been throwing at him.
No, Mueller had much to gain by "telling it all" - and nothing that we can see that he gained by holding back.

Want to get a real insight into Mueller? Ask DeNiro what he feels about the character he'd played on SNL. I've heard nothing about his thoughts, but boy, after that many months of playing a guy that was watching every single move in a most threatening way - and then to "vanish" - I just don't get it.

[quakerboy]

28. You assume he was on the side of America

Or at least the side of the law.

I do not. The man is a Republican who served under war criminal Bush and stood by him through it all. There was 0% chance he was ever going to hand over anything that would be a serious threat to republican power.

If you go back in my posts to the beginning of this thing, i said he would give us a report full of grey area, doing just enough to keep anyone from being able to impose consequences on him from the left at a later date, with a few scapegoats to make it look like he was being tough, but no actual actionable items against anyone who really matters in this debacle of a "presidency".

Either trump is an idiot and actually hated Mueller, Or he was pulling the classic "Dont throw me in the briar patch" move. Either way, he was never under any real threat from Mueller. As far as I can tell, the only meaningful result of that investigation was to give Donnie more time to entrench himself.

[malaise]

5. Mueller played a very important role in these proceedings

Justice is coming. ITTMF!

[Lulu KC]

11. this +1

We have no idea of his value. Yet.

[malaise]

13. I read most of the report

and have a very good idea - the Mueller Report will age very well.

[StarfishSaver]

14. This definitely set the stage for what's happening now

Last edited Tue Oct 22, 2019, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)

[malaise]

23. And woke up the population

slowly

[Wounded Bear]

6. We're not at trial yet...

Basically, the House is acting as a Grand Jury now, and closed door testimony is normal.

[Cetacea]

7. Yes

You and I got off to a bad start on this very topic. My thinking at the time was that Barr used broadcast media to take the wind out of what had to be the most widely anticipated event of the Trump presidency: the release of the final Mueller report. And it largely worked, thanks in large part to his sitting on it for nearly a month afterwards. I felt the only way to counter that damage was to give Mueller public time to counter the conclusions Barr lied about. I knew most people, including elected officials were going to read a 400 page legal brief.

My other fear was that without visible followup investigatons that Barr/Trump would begin a...trumped up investigation into the investigations and dems, all timed for the primary season and election.
We were lucky that Trump was caught red-handed, thanks to the whistle blower.

On the other hand your point is very valid, especially given the circus show the GOP was likely to put on during any public hearings. Much better to wait until the facts are in to have public hearings now.

Cheers

[StarfishSaver]

9. Cheers right back to you!

[George II]

12. Swalwell said on CNN about an hour or so ago that they wanted closed door testimony....

....so the other witnesses didn't know what they were saying, among other reasons.

[mcar]

15. Kick!

[patphil]

19. Absolutely!

The house is now conducting an investigation. Normal police investigations are not public matters.
When the matter of impeachment goes before the full House, that is like a grand jury.
But, the evidence will most likely not be in private like a true grand jury.
The trial portion of the process will be when the House presents it's case to the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding.
The Senate becomes the jury, and Trump is the defendant.
It's going to be an historic moment.

Patrick Phillips

[pnwmom]

20. I think the public testimony Mueller gave, with the 5 minute blocks of grandstanding opportunities,

did show many Democrats that public hearings are not necessarily the best way to collect actual information.

If we were still the minority party in both Houses, public hearings might be our only opportunity to question witnesses. But we're not the minority in the House -- so thank goodness we have Nancy Pelosi, who knows how to make the most effective use of her power.

[StarfishSaver]

22. Exactly

And the Lewandowski testimony confirmed it.

Plus, it was important for the public to see that the bright shiny objects they were clamouring to see - Lewandowski, Hicks, McGahn, Barr, Trump, Jr., etc. - would just come in and parry and stonewall and grandstand with a huge assist from Republicans on the committees while offering little to nothing of any value that would lead to impeachment and removal.

It's interesting that it's now people that most of us have never heard of and whom the country still hasn't heard from directly who are providing the most compelling and valuable testimony and evidence. They're doing it quietly, out of the public eye, but they are sealing Trump's doom.

[pnwmom]

24. Yes -- the civil servants, not the politicos.

If we save the democracy, it will be largely because of civil servants and lawyers (and judges). No wonder the R's want Americans to hate both groups! That "bureaucracy" is standing between us and a Trump dictatorship.

[yaesu]

21. Good point and with all republicans as foreign agents its a must. nt

[ritapria]

25. Mueller

Mueller gave a sweetheart plea deal to Michael Flynn and got nothing in return ………..Mueller did not go to court to compel the Testimony of Trump. Sr....Mueller did not indict a clearly guilty Don Trump Jr...…. Mueller gave a plea deal to Robert Gates ..… So far, that has produced a big , Fat zero .....The Barr team are killing the probes that were spun off from the Mueller investigation...Will we hear a bleat of protest from Mueller ? ... Not in a million years...…... Bob wants to remain in good standing at the Country Club - a Country in Crisis be damned …...…..What a contrast between Mueller and Bill Taylor ………….The latter a courageous patriot ; the former - a non-entity afraid of testifying before Congress , afraid of Trump

[MyOwnPeace]

27. Don't know if I'd be THAT harsh..........

but you're not too far off course for my eyes.
What a contrast in what everybody had perceived as being an "I'm my own MAN" guy and what ultimately came out to sit at the table and be the "Barney Fife" of the investigation.
Yes, he may have discovered things and left fat folders for later investigations, but he "wet his pants" when it came time to give his speech.