Ok, someone please educate me...

[Trueblue Texan]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by NancyBlueINOklahoma (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I just read that Bloomberg is being attacked for using a "common racist trope" of calling Corey Booker "well-spoken". In addition, I recall a journalist on MSNBC recently saying something about how racist it is to call a person of color articulate.

Now, yes, I am white and maybe that's why I don't understand this. I understand that racism is woven into the fabric of our culture, through our language, traditions, and I want to help us heal from it too. But I do not understand why we cannot use these terms when referring to someone who has a great facility with language if they also happen to be a person of color.

When Barak Obama ran for president, George W. Bush was in office. How could anyone not notice that Obama was beautifully articulate, especially compared to the nincompoop Bush? I can remember hearing Obama's first speeches and listening to that beautiful voice and clarity of communication and his ability to impart understanding to his audience of very complex issues. Please help me understand why making the observation that he was articulate, eloquent, was racist? I think Elizabeth Warren is also articulate. Why is it okay to verbalized that, for her, but it's racist to make the same observation with someone of color? And can I say here without any racist intention, Corey Booker ALSO is very talented with helping people understand complex issues, one might even say he is well-spoken or articulate? Please help me.

[ginnyinWI]

1. I'm white too, but

I understand that when you are describing someone who is black, in this country especially, the unspoken ending to that compliment is, “...for a black person.” We wouldn’t catch that, and I didn’t when I read the quote the first time, but Booker did. It’s as simple as that.

[brewens]

5. Is that something Bloomberg will usually say about just any well spoken person he encounters?

If it is, we should be able to find examples of that.

[Joinfortmill]

7. Yes, but

It also might simply have been a compliment. Context is everything. I didn't hear the comment, so I can't comment on it in particular, but generally I would say that we often face this type of situation because as a nation we haven't confronted our terrible past and our not so great present treatment of Blacks and other races, of which there are many in our country and our history. Until we do, these incidents will continue to occur. As disclosure, I'm a white woman.

[rzemanfl]

2. I will think about your post while I think about whether I have to wash

socks this morning.

[Maeve]

3. It's one thing to mention several people as being articulate/well-spoken

But when talking about just one black person, you risk being patronizing if you praise them for being something white people in the same position are expected to be. Booker is a nationally known politician; it would be unusual if he WEREN'T well-spoken. While that may not have been in Bloomberg's head, it falls into a pattern of whites treating blacks as dumber/less articulate by nature. History of words need to matter in our race-obsessed society and it is on us to tread carefully.

Similarly, think of how tRump calls Lisa Page "lovely"--he's doing it to imply that her main qualification is her looks, not her talent. And then he denigrates her more, referring to her as Strzok's "lover" as if that is her main role in the FBI. Again, it's not what is said so much as how it is perceived.

Edited to add---another poster pointed out that the implied ending of the sentence is often "..for a black person". Similarly, the baseline is different for women--he is forceful, she is pushy. Does that help?

[Cirque du So-What]

4. It implies that the 'default' is unintelligible patois

and that eloquent POC are objects of amazement for having overcome their low-spoken tendencies. One may as well say, '(s)he speaks so well...for a (insert targeted ethnicity).'

[Doodley]

11. Maybe it implies that to you, but that interpretation never for a split-second

occurred to me.

[Cirque du So-What]

16. Maybe it doesn't imply that to you

I believe it matters more to POC - the recipients of these left-handed compliments.

[Doodley]

19. Cory Booker is well-spoken, in that he has an eloquence and succinctness that

is outstanding. He is one of the most powerful speakers out there. There's nothing "left-handed" about that.

What I see racist here is using an innocent statement, out of context, to bring down a white candidate.

Being an Englishman in America, I am complimented on my voice nearly every day. I am white. I take it as a compliment. If I was black, should I take it as an insult?

[marble falls]

15. That is exactly the unspoken racial slur implicet. Thanks for saying that so clearly.

[GeorgeGist]

10. Insults are usually not helpful😡

[Ptah]

8. ..

[Doodley]

9. And if he had said a white candidate was well-spoken, he could also be accused of being racist,

for praising a white candidate and not a black one. Sorry, but it is ridiculous when you have to be so very careful about paying a compliment.

[marble falls]

13. NOT at all. We whites represent more than 80% of the population, we speak from a position of power..

if you don't believe that look at Congress and the WH, other than Democrats - how many minorities do you see?

[Doodley]

18. I will never accept that I cannot pay a black man a compliment.

[marble falls]

12. Its a matter of being 'surprised' that Booker is literate and "well-spoken" by a white person ...

that makes that observation at least passively racist. Racists tend to kill blacks able to make their issues too clear.

W dumb and tongue tied as viewed by a white person or society in general is an observation. Observing a PoC as as smart of one of us white folk is racist, ignorant as best.

The single most educated group of society with the most College degrees right now in the US are black women. Smart, eloquent PoC are NOT a quirk of nature, it is an unremarkable fact of life. They do not need our patronizing they deserve our embracemnt and inclusion.

Has anyone ever remarked to you on your children being smart as a surprise considering the source? Then why do we white people feel so free about saying that about adult people of color????

[Doodley]

21. I agree with the point you make, but I don't see how Bloomberg saying

that Booker is "very well-spoken" shows any surprise or reference to his color. Booker's exceptional eloquence isn't an "unremarkable fact of life." It is worthy of remarks.

I am white, and from England, and because of my accent, I am complimented almost every day on how I speak. If I was black, should I be offended? If I was black, should all these people who say they like how I speak withhold their comments because it would be considered racist?

[bobbieinok]

17. In 08 primary Biden expressed surprise that Obama was articulate

To say a black person is articulate plays on the age-old stereotype that blacks 'talk funny' -- see black language in novels, movies--esp Stepn Fetchit movies. If you can watch much of him without getting sick to your stomach

ETA heard yrs ago on PBS I think that black man who played this character was very intelligent and invested well the money he made playing the only role he could get as a black in the Hollywood of his day

[OKNancy]

20. Locking - wrong forum

All discussions of a primary candidate are to go to the Primary forum

Please refer to this post:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1013&pid=9260