Are there any Imperial Japanese or Wehrmacht soldiers buried at Arlington?

[jcmaine72]

I'm just curious because, last I checked, Arlington National Cemetery was supposed to be reserved as the final resting place for American service people who defended the United States of America from its enemies and uphold its Constitution, and not as one for those who actively tried to destroy both.

So why, then, are there Confederate soldiers buried there? They were Americans by nationality but traitors to both the U.S. government and our Constitution. They don't belong in that place of honor any more than a division of dead Waffen SS panzer grenadiers, or Japanese marines.

[hlthe2b]

1. well, Arlington was aquired from the property of Robert E. Lee when it was seized

so that has to be at least part of the explanation. It was actually his wife's inherited estate. Grant's 40 day campaigns as far as Petersburg had hospitals overflowing with dead and dying (82,000 casualties per one source in just a month). Presumedly a few hundred or so of those were Confederates who ended up buried there. Given a court later found that Lee's property had been illegally confiscated (after their deaths) I'd imagine maintaining the few non-Union and family graves there was probably part of the settlement with Lee's son and heir.

[jcmaine72]

5. But Robert E. Lee was a traitor as well and responsible for the deaths

of many of those early interments. It was only just that President Lincoln to have the men that Lee murdered buried in his front yard. As for Lee himself, his remains should have no more place in that cemetery than Heinz Guderian's or Yamamoto's, and neither should any of his men. It's all well and good he's actually buried elsewhere, as his army of traitors should be as well

[hlthe2b]

8. Read the rest of my post. A court later found the property was illegally seized.

So, rather than see all those Union soldiers disinterred, it seems a much more favorable settlement was achieved. Of course, you can scream on and on. but they are all dead. Arlington remains a national monument and I for one don't really care if there are a few remaining Confederate graves.

[cwydro]

13. Thank you.

Let the dead bury the dead, as the saying goes.

[jcmaine72]

16. Illegally seized? The way Fort Sumpter was?

No, the government had every right to take Lee's luxurious digs away from him the instant he pledged loyalty to an enemy government and began killing Americans, just as the government reserves the right today to seize a drug lab or storefront where human sex trafficking is occurring.

[hlthe2b]

17. A US Court decades later. Do some research. You are intensely in need of some historical reading.

You may not like it. I may not like it. Most of us may really not like it. But denying the history and reasoning behind it does nothing. It was the legal settlement for what a US Federal court deemed to be an illegal seizure. Fortunately, Arlington and all buried there remains as a National Landmark.

[jcmaine72]

27. US courts also legally sanctioned Jim Crow at the time, so do some research of your own.

That doesn't make the decision they made vis-a-vis Arlington a just one. It just shows that there were then, just as there are today (and, in fact, in this very thread), those who lovingly admire the Confederacy and the traitors who fought for it, and wish to see those men elevated to the same status as the REAL American patriots who fought against their evil.

[hlthe2b]

29. I already have for decades.

No one here defends the confederacy, nor their monuments. But good gawd, if you suggest you want to dig up graves, you have a real issue, IMO.

[hlthe2b]

10. Lee is NOT buried at Arlington.

He is buried at Lee Chapel in Lexington, and not in Arlington Cemetery where he once lived.

[jcmaine72]

14. Read my post carefully. I wrote as much.

[hlthe2b]

15. You wrote:"As for Lee himself, his remains should have no more place in that cemetery than Heinz..."

Do you really want Arlington returned to ancestors and all the current buried--union, WWI and all the wars that followed to today, disinterred? Because that was the settlement achieved when the property was ruled to have been illegally seized from the Lee family.

[jcmaine72]

19. You obviously stopped reading at that point, because I wrote this in the next sentence:

"It's all well and good he's actually buried elsewhere, "

I'm sorry, was that paragraph too long for you to finish reading it, or something?

[panader0]

30. You should apologize.

[jcmaine72]

35. For what, being factually correct?

I never wrote Lee was buried in Arlington. That poster obviously didn't read what I wrote in its entirety.

If you mean apologize for wanting the remains of Confederate traitors removed from Arlington, a place where they, as sworn enemies of the U.S, simply don't belong, all I can say is FUCK the Confederacy and its defenders and apologists.

[panader0]

38. No, for being so snide to a long time and respected member of DU.

[muriel_volestrangler]

43. And yet, the long time member had already said to them "read the rest of my post"

To come back with the same point seems fair.

[jcmaine72]

44. Are you joking?

I'll tell you what. When that poster apologizes for misrepresenting what I wrote because they failed to read my statement in its entirety I'll apologize for the condign snark.

How's that sound?

[Thomas Hurt]

2. Link on Confederate section of Arlington

https://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Explore/Monuments-and-Memorials/Confederate-Memorial

[Recursion]

3. Anton Hilberath

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Hilberath

There are about 900 German WWII graves in the US, but his is the only one in Arlington.

There are about 800 Confederate graves in Arlington, all Confederate prisoners who died in a DC or Alexandria hospital, and there wasn't another place to bury them anybody could think of. The "confederate memorial" near their section dates to 1906, and should probably be torn down, or at the very least severely contextualized.

[NutmegYankee]

4. It came out of legislation passed by Congress in 1900.

Having just fought our first war as a unified nation since the Civil War, there was a feeling of reconciliation that led to that act.

By the time of the burials, those buried had been pardoned of treason and had been restored to citizenship.

[Jake Stern]

6. There is a Wehrmacht Gefreiter (Lance Corporal) buried at Fort Logan National Cemetery

So having the enemy dead buried in a national cemetery is not really unusual.

[jcmaine72]

9. But there isn't a memorial to Nazi Germany above his grave like there is

for the Confederate traitors, is there?

[Jake Stern]

41. A German flag I think but that's it

[Aristus]

7. I'm not crazy about the idea of traitorous soldiers lying in a place of honor,

but since one of the reasons for burying them there was to prevent the Lee family from re-claiming their property, I'm okay with the trade-off.

[hlthe2b]

11. Exactly.

[jcmaine72]

12. They don't belong there and it borders on desecration to have a Confederate memorial in

such a place. It's disgusting.

[Aristus]

18. I agree. Ditch the memorial.

Let the Rebel corpses rot and stink (worse than they did when they were alive), but get rid of anything that says they sacrificed their cracker asses for a 'noble cause'.

[cwydro]

26. "Cracker asses?"

Really dude?

How do you treat any southern folks who visit your clinic? Curious.

[Aristus]

28. First of all, I am Southern-born, along with my entire family.

Southern does not necessarily equal 'cracker'.

They took up arms against my country. I'm not too concerned about sparing their feelings. My pride and affinity is with the Southerners who fought for the Union (and there were a lot of them...)

[cwydro]

33. Funny that.

I’ve seen numerous posts from you denigrating the south and southerners.

The most recent one other than this lovely “cracker asses” ridiculous comment is when you ridiculed NFL commentators, most of whom are NOT southern. Remember that one?

Something about if anyone had a southern accent they could be an NFL commentator...then you put an exaggerated “southern drawl” in ludicrous prose to illustrate it.

Cracker is a slur, and many of those poor soldiers had no choice but to fight. Plenty of “crackers” over in Vietnam too, dude. With no choice.

[Aristus]

39. One always has a choice.

Henry David Thoreau (not a Southerner, but it works for the analogy) was offered a choice; pay a war tax or go to jail. He chose jail.

The powers that be always have ways of convincing the common people to do their fighting for them. One must be discerning, use good, judgment and do nothing that will hurt one's fellow man in service to the fat cats.

I have a strong dislike of any Southerner who carries a torch for the 'lost cause', flies the Confederate flag, or otherwise acts in a way the covers the Southern name with dishonor, ignorance, provincialism, or bigotry.

[cwydro]

20. So...you want them all disinterred and tossed in a pile somewhere?

There are numerous graveyards in Europe with anonymous soldiers in them...some headstones say an English soldier lies here, some say a German soldier, some say French.

They lie together now.

My uncle fought at D-Day, and he later married a German woman who was the sister of a German soldier. My uncle and his brother-in-law spoke to each other about their experiences, but rarely to anyone else. They were good friends.

Let it be. This is really something you’re worried about at this point in our history?

[jcmaine72]

23. Did I write that their remains should be plowed up and placed in a pile?

Rebury them in some other (non-national) cemetery. They don't belong there.

[cwydro]

24. So you do want them disinterred.

Ugh.

So much to worry about in this world, and you want to disturb the resting places of long-dead soldiers...many of whom had no choice in going to fight.

[jcmaine72]

31. I said reburied elsewhere. That's pretty clear, right?

As traitors to the U.S., they don't belong in that place of national honor. Let them "rest" someplace else....preferably as far from the brave men they betrayed, or the poor African Americans they fought so hard to keep in chains.

Sorry if that upsets you.

[tavernier]

21. Wow! I'm thinking that it takes a lot of anger

and hatred to wish a dead person be hauled out of their grave years after they died (and having read about that war, probably suffered a painful and gruesome death).

Maybe it would be a good idea for your mental health to talk to a professional. Truly, I’m not being snarky, but I’m not hearing that you are a happy person.

[hlthe2b]

22. Seems to be an obsession...

Not sure why.

[cwydro]

25. You said it so much better than I.

[onenote]

32. Information about Confederate Soldiers buried at Arlington National Cemetary

Seems like the decision to inter Confederate soldiers in a section of Arlington National Cemetery had the support of a diverse group, including some who had more personal reasons to hate Confederate soldiers than the OP probably has.

https://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Explore/Monuments-and-Memorials/Confederate-Memorial

[ismnotwasm]

34. So how do you feel about reparations for Black people?

Give what slavery actually did

[jcmaine72]

36. I'm in favor of reparations.

[Jchall2000]

37. Yes, Lauri Torni, AKA Larry Thorne.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_Törni

Lauri Torni was a Finnish Army Captain who became a member of the Waffen-SS, joined the Wehrmacht, joined the Waffen-SS, jumped-ship after the war and became a US Green Beret officer who fought in Vietnam. He was highly decorated in both the Finnish, Nazi German and American armies and was killed in-action while serving in Vietnam.

He's the only example I can think of, though. Had the Finnish-equivalent of the Medal of Honor and a whole list of US merits.

[JustAnotherGen]

40. Leave the dead

But take down the monument.

There was nothing glorious in an enemy who fought to enslave my father's family. Fuck those guys!

Open this idea up in 10/15 years. Time is on our side. When the default setting in America looks more like me? It's tear down time.

[Kaleva]

42. If it means so much to you, take action.

I'm not suggesting you do anything illegal but maybe a hunger strike might be in order.

[Kaleva]

45. Yes. As mentioned above, Lauri Torni, a former member of the Waffen SS, is buried there.

"Lauri Allan Törni (28 May 1919 – 18 October 1965), later known as Larry Alan Thorne, was a Finnish soldier who fought under three flags: as a Finnish Army Second Lieutenant of the Fourth Independent Jäger Infantry Battalion against the Soviets in the Winter War and the Soviet-Finnish sub-theater of World War II known as the Continuation War; as a German Army Captain (under the alias Larry Lane) of the Finnish Volunteer Battalion of the Waffen-SS when he fought the Soviets on the Eastern Front in World War II; and as a United States Army Captain (under the alias "Larry Thorne&quot when he served in the U.S. Army Special Forces in the Vietnam War.

Törni died in a helicopter crash during the Vietnam War and he was promoted to rank of Major posthumously. His remains were located three decades later and then buried in Arlington National Cemetery; he is the only former member of the Waffen SS to be interred there. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_T%C3%B6rni