Could someone please explain what was wrong with Jeremy Corbyn?

[Poiuyt]

Last edited Fri Dec 13, 2019, 10:49 PM - Edit history (1)

I've read several threads about the past British election and why the conservatives won by such a large amount. As someone from the US, I was having trouble discerning between fact, opinion, and sarcasm (sarcasm doesn't work if you're truly ignorant).

Was Corbyn really too liberal for the British people or was he just unlikeable? Why?

Do that many people in Great Britain really want to leave the EU? I thought it more evenly split.

Thank you!

[Leith]

1. Recent bouts of anti-Semitism

I don't know the details, but if it's true, he's a fuckin' idiot and should step down.

[tenderfoot]

2. He criticized policies of Netanyahu which means he's an anti-semite...

coupled with the obvious smear campaign against him by the Murdoch controlled British media.

[nycbos]

5. No he is an antisemite

He supported Hamas and Hezbollah.

He stood by a "blood libel cleric"

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-zionist-lobby-for-blood-libel-cleric-raed-salah-s-expulsion-from-the-uk-1.482455

He was a present at a ceremony honoring the Munich terrorists

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-munich-attack-wreaths-palestinian-terrorists-antisemitism-a8489731.html

Oh yes there were 70 whistle blowers from within the Labour Party

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-70-officials-blow-whistle-on-labour-over-antisemitism-h390f5n5x

The party is being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

[tenderfoot]

6. I hear a lot of right wingers think that

eom

[nycbos]

10. He has shared platforms with Hamas, Hezbollah..

He attended a ceremony honoring the terrorists who committed massacre.

Those are facts.

And you dismissing me as a right winger shows how acceptable antisemitism is on the left.

It is a cause that unites the far right and the far left.

Jews get faux support from both sides.

When the attack is a Neo-Nazi like Pittsburgh we get "sympathy" from you people. When the attackers is a Muslim we "sympathy" from the MAGA assholes.

I for one see though all the BS.

[OldRed2450]

18. +1

[11cents]

23. +2

[dware]

29. +3 &4. nt

[whathehell]

32. The poster to whom you responded represents him or herself,

not "The Left" or "how acceptable anti-Semitism is on the Left", which
is a lie. The fact of that should be obvious given that the vast majority of American Jews (75%} are reliable Democratic voters.

[Doodley]

52. Corbyn stood with the anti-Semites and the IRA.

[whathehell]

53. I'm not defending him

I just don't think he's representative of "The Left, at least not in this country.

[Doodley]

60. In this country, "the left" is where the right is in the UK. The Conservatives

want to keep healthcare for all, free at the point of use. Democrats can't even agree on a if or how they want to achieve that. The Conservatives want to keep paid maternity leave. They believe in a woman's right to choose. They believe in climate change and want to be carbon neutral by 2050. In some ways, they are more to the left. In others (immigration control, police) they are more authoritarian, but not in an outright racist way we see in the Trump administration.

[whathehell]

61. Whatever...I still don't know

what that has to do with me, anti-Semitism, Jeremy Corbyn, or my comment.

[Doodley]

62. I was agreeing with your point, but failed to communicate well. I apologize.

[whathehell]

63. Okay..No harm, no foul

[dware]

30. Are you insinuating that nycbos is a right winger? nt

[treestar]

13. That makes him bad, but does it explain why people voted for the Conservatives?

Was it his anti-semitism that was the turnoff for the voters? Nice to think so if it was, then again, maybe that was not their problem with him.

[nycbos]

14. Like always it's a multitude of factors

Antisemitism played a role, Brexit played a role. It will take awhile to figure out all the reasons.

[Raster]

12. Sorry, but criticizing the policies of Netanyahu DOES NOT make a person an anti-semite...

...it makes them someone that is possibly/probably anti-Netanyahu. Unfortunately, Netanyahu and persons close to Netanyahu have been promoting the disgraceful meme that if you criticize Bibi, you are an anti-semite, which nothing could be further from the truth. Netanyahu is the Israeli version of tRump*.

and FYI: "Since December 2016, Netanyahu has been under investigation for corruption by Israeli police and prosecutors. On 21 November 2019, he was indicted on charges of breach of trust, bribery, and fraud. Due to the indictment, Netanyahu is legally required to relinquish all of his ministry posts other than the prime minister position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu

[malaise]

16. Thanks for this post

Sorry, but criticizing the policies of Netanyahu DOES NOT make a person an anti-semite...

Ditto

[dware]

31. No, it doesn't,

but there was a lot more than just that, as has been pointed out numerous times in this and other threads.

Corbyn was an unrepentant anti-Semite and a far left Marxist.

[nycbos]

17. I oppose Bibi.

I think his election defeat is essential for the survival of Israel.


I am talking about sharing platforms with TERRORISTS and people who promote BLOOD LIBELS about jews.

Antisemites have flocked to Labour under his leadership. Not five years ago Labour had a Jewish leader.

And the fact that you tried to change the conversation from Corbyn's supports of terrorists who call for the murder of all jews to Bibi shows a lot about who you are.

[Raster]

44. No, it doesn't say a thing about me other than the fact that I do not believe...

... criticizing Netanyahu makes anyone an anti-semite. That's what I objected to and will continue to object to. Netanyahu, for all practical purposes, is akin to an Israeli version of tRump*, and SHOULD BE CRITICIZED.

This is what I objected to: "He criticized policies of Netanyahu which means he's an anti-semite..."

Corbyn appears to be an anti-semite, for which I condemn him roundly.

[mucifer]

56. You should re read the early posts in the thread. I think you are missing

what was said.

[11cents]

24. Yeah. It's the other things that make him an antisemite.

I don't think you've been paying attention, frankly, if you think that all that was happening was that Corbyn criticized Netanyahu.

It's been an absolute horror show -- Labour forums flooded with classic antisemitic tropes and Jewish MPs hounded out of the party. The large majority (around 85%) of British Jews think that the party has become institutionally antisemitic. But we can't be trusted and our views don't count.

[uponit7771]

28. I openly admit I haven't been paying attention to UK politics

It's been an absolute horror show -- Labour forums flooded with classic antisemitic tropes and Jewish MPs hounded out of the party. The large majority (around 85%) of British Jews think that the party has become institutionally antisemitic. But we can't be trusted and our views don't count.

This Corbin guy condones it?!

Just sounds like something out of order, usually the left throughout time has allowed bigger coalitions

[warrior1]

3. This might help explain

Link to tweet

[Mike 03]

9. Very worthwhile read. It's about as deep and probing an explanation as I've heard all day,

much deeper than they got on BBC.

[lunasun]

37. Thank you it did

[BeyondGeography]

54. Illuminating and persuasive...Everyone should read this.

It wasn’t the alleged anti-Semitism, it was the identification with The Other, who just happen to be immigrants too.

[nycbos]

4. He is a far left extremist who supports terrorism.

He supported Hamas and Hezbollah and the IRA

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

He blamed Zionist lobby" for securing the deportation from Britain of the cleric infamous for promoting the blood libel.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-zionist-lobby-for-blood-libel-cleric-raed-salah-s-expulsion-from-the-uk-1.482455

He supported the IRA

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11924431/Revealed-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

He also was present at a ceremony honoring the terrorist who perforated the Munich massacre.


He is an antisemite which is a huge problem on the left.

[VarryOn]

21. Well put nt

[whathehell]

33. It may be a "huge problem on the left" in the UK,

I don't know, but it certainly isn't in the US. The majority of of American Jews in this country are Democrats.

[nycbos]

38. I'm one of them.

And if you looked at the comments on the page when Corbyn's support of antisemitic terrorists are brought up the subject is changed. That tells you what you need to so.


This is before we even talk about is open support of IRA during The Troubles.

[whathehell]

39. Okay

Last edited Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:15 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm in no way a Corbyn supporter and he may well be as anti-semitic as
claimed, but there seems to be some disagreement about just what is and what's not anti-semitic. I've seen and heard very reasonable seeming people equate criticism of Israel and/or Netanyahu
with anti-Semitism and that, frankly, is just bullshit -- Israel is a nation and 'Bibi" is a.politician...Neither is more above criticism than any other nation ot politician.

[whathehell]

45. "When antisemitic terrorists are brought up, the subject is changed..

That telle you all you need to know"

Really?

The only thing that tells me is that they AGREE with you.

I'm sorry, but I see no hard-core Corbyn supporters here -- As the OP might suggest, most of us barely know him. As Americans, we're far more involved with our own politics right now.

[bluedye33139]

7. Scottish people are furiously opposed to Brexit

And because of his opposition to the EU, he was very unclear about Brexit.

That appears to be the primary factor in losing Scottish support.

People opposed to Brexit really had no one to vote for in this election.

His lack of clarity, plus his baggage, were deal-breakers.

[Poiuyt]

15. I didn't realize that he was opposed to the EU

That would explain a lot. Plus all the other crap.

[bluedye33139]

26. But his messaging on this was muddled. Very iffy.

[maxsolomon]

19. Like in a America, you hold your nose and vote for your party's candidate.

Even if they're a "Marxist Anti-Semite" like Corbyn or a "Neocon Centrist" like HRC.

Allowing Conservatives power is far worse that compromising your purity. Its a lesson the Left never seems to learn.

[Blue_true]

35. The Scotish National Party and pro EU parties in Northern Ireland did very well.

My guess, Scotland votes to leave the UK and Northern Ireland acts as a pivot point between the EU and the U.K., with Northern Ireland staying in the EU customs union.

[Loki Liesmith]

51. Wondering if Ireland/Northern Ireland

Can work this to significant economic advantage.

[Blue_true]

64. One analyst predict a united Ireland in 2 decades.

I don't see that happening unless England literally fall apart after Brexit (it should come close), because as long as the Unionists have a thread to grab onto, they won't allow a united Ireland.

[scheming daemons]

8. Well... Marxism + anti-semitism is a toxic combination

in a western democracy.

[nycbos]

11. +1

[whathehell]

34. No more so than Fascism + anti-semitism..

anywhere.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

20. Some other points that haven't been made

1.) He was a backbench MP for thirty years which essentially meant he was an outsider/rebel through the Tony Blair years. Not just on Iraq which he was on the right side of history on, but Blairism/Centrism/Neoliberalism. That's despite the fact the Blair government was overwhelmingly popular with the voters.

2.) To go from a backbench MP to leader of the party meant all of a sudden he went from obscurity to household name. He didn't like media intrusion but that's part of the job. He couldn't mask the fact he disliked it and came across as cold.

3.) He's a pacifist who in the past said the use of nuclear weaponry as a strongarm was a waste of money but also morally abhorrent. That made him look weak for someone to be commander of the armed forces.

4.) His social policies as individual items actually poll popularly but he was promising too much too soon and it just enabled the same old arguments of how you will pay for it.

5.) He excited a lot of new young people into politics and the Labour party membership exponentially grew but they were mainly in London or university tows which are metropolitan and pro-EU. He couldn't win over the traditional labour seats which are pro-Brexit, more white and more elderly.

6.) His selection for Shadow Home Secretary was considered very weak on crime and immigration.

7.) He was historically a Eurosceptic and didn't campaign passionately to remain in the EU even though 70% of his party voted to. That lost him a lot of the Remainer vote because they just didn't trust his Brexit policy.

8) The Leaver vote didn't trust Labour however because they got characterised as pro immigration and open borders (sound familiar?).

9) Most of his party MPs didn't respect him as Leader and overwhelmingly voted no confidence in him in 2016 triggering a leadership challenge. He beat his moderate labour opponent easily and that gave him more authority to run the party as he saw fit. The MPs now became the rebels.

10) He was savagely treated by the right wing press. So was his predecessor Ed Miliband. Neither tried to fight back, instead trying to take a moral high ground. That just allowed the innuendo to carry on. Tony Blair in contrast had the media dancing to his tune because of his rapid response team and spin doctor Alastair Campbell and they didn't have social media.

11) He's just a bit of a boring character. On many aspects he makes a lot of sense which is why young people like him. He makes the case for issues that affect their future and very progressive. But he's just not a good salesman in front of the camera. People say he's an empathetic guy in person so the difference when he visits an NHS hospital or homeless shelter is stark compared to Johnson who is out of touch. But Johnson can play up to the cameras and throw a zinger. Corbyn just sticks to the script.

12) Corbyn was 66 years old when he became leader and never even held any committee role before. He didn't seek to become leader initially --- other people kept nominating him to move the party left and eventually he agreed to run. He didn't have ambition for power but once he got it by a bit of a fluke he wouldn't let go.

[comradebillyboy]

27. Now that is an informative post. Thanks.

[JHB]

55. Seconded!

[defacto7]

22. I guess there was no hope in this election to begin with.

[appalachiablue]

25. What's wrong with BoJo- the sexist pig, racist, homophobe, anti Muslim?

Or, it's ok that a raging bigot, right wing Tory wins, as long as a leftist doesn't??

> Boris Johnson Called Gay Men 'Tank-Topped Bumboys,' Black People 'Piccaninnies' W 'Watermelon Smiles And Compared Muslim Women To "Letterboxes." Business Insider, *Nov. 22, 2019. https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016243899

[malaise]

42. and supporter of white terrorism

Well put

[mathematic]

36. No, he was not liberal enough

He's a socialist, not a liberal. He appointed a literal marxist, John McDonnell ("We've got to demand systemic change. Look, I'm straight, I'm honest with people: I'm a Marxist.", 2008) to be Labour's finance minister.

On top of that, Corbyn has been a lifelong euroskeptic and everybody knows he wants to leave the EU, so the approximately 50% of the public that wanted to remain in the EU did not think they were going to get that by voting for Labour.

Corbyn made it hard for huge swaths of the electorate to vote for him. The only reason Labour gained seats in 2017 was because remainers were still entertaining the fantasy that Labour was the only party that could stop brexit. Too bad Labour was a brexit party all along.

[Polybius]

41. Theresa May was also notoriously weak

That's another reason for their gains last time. Boris sucks, but he has more of a following, and is dangerously evil with intelligence thrown in.

[malaise]

43. To be honest he tried too hard to please both sides on Brexit

That is a losing option.

[Polybius]

40. He's pretty much Jill Stein, but more Left

Can't be like that and win.

[UniteFightBack]

46. Once you hear all the rurals won I'm sorry but you can bank there is some racism in there. nt

[whathehell]

47. Well, I'm sorry, but that in itself

sounds like a bigoted statement.. What are we now, all anti-rural?

[UniteFightBack]

48. Did you read the twitter thread? I own a home in the sticks so who are you calling anti rural it's

they who are anti city. The same damn thing is going on over there as here. I'm not anti rural I'm making an observation. IT'S RACISM AND ANTI IMMIGRATION. Is this a news flash for you?

[whathehell]

50. It's a generality -- painting with a broad brush and, no

I don't know that "the same damn thing is going on there as here" and I doubt you do either.

[Renew Deal]

49. Conservatives had a clear position on Brexit, Labour did not

So conservatives promised to go on with it. Labour wanted another referendum. In the end, this is a weak position.

[bobbieinok]

57. From reading got impression he was personally v wishy-washy on Brexit

So why vote for him?

[bobbieinok]

59. Also read UK media mega anti him and labour! UK based cos don't want to pay taxes

Many foreign owned cos do EU business but have tax haven in London. They would lose this if UK stays in EU

IE cash before country

[MaryMagdaline]

58. I hope Scotland leaves

I never wished for that before but the Brexit voters need to get what they asked for