I'm a Boomer, and I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior decades ago.

[11 Bravo]

That's just me.
But Donald Fucking Trump will not poison my belief.
I'm not an evangelical ... those people piss me off, particularly when they get in my face.
I believe what I believe, and I continue to take solace therein. If your mileage varies, fine.
But those who have claimed to be evangelical messengers, and who pretend to be followers of Christ, yet excuse the amoral, immoral, and downright criminal actions of the shitweasel to whom they've hitched their wagon, can kiss my Presbyterian ass.
Amen.
And Merry Christmas.

[Alliepoo]

1. A big Amen from me!!!

[roamer65]

2. I applaud that you try to adhere to the true teachings of Christ.

...and Merry Xmas to you too!

[polmaven]

6. I am with you 100%!

[enid602]

3. evangelism

Recent events have cemented my belief that evangelism is primarily a cultural and political institution,

[LakeArenal]

9. Forgot money making.

[RainCaster]

4. You are not alone Bravo

I'm also a boomer, and life long believer. Evangelicals do not represent me or my beliefs. Lutheran, Methodist, then Presbyterian.

[overleft]

50. I do not belong to a denomination at all, but I have been a Christian for many years and the

evangelicals do not represent me and my beliefs. All the local churches represent that ilk and I have not set foot in one in years.

[Kaleva]

5. +1

[bluestarone]

7. In your corner here!

[Patterson]

8. Same here.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

10. From an agnostic...

Spot-on, humorous and well said!

Merry Christmas to you, too!!!

[OAITW r.2.0]

13. This agnostic concurs.

nt

[SCantiGOP]

26. me too. I agree with Gandhi:

"I like your Christ...(but) your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I also like his assessment on Western civilization -- he thought it would be a great idea.

[YOHABLO]

11. The only Presbyterian I've ever met was in a highball glass.

[keithbvadu2]

12. Political Christians rather than Christians of faith.

Political Christians rather than Christians of faith.

They support Trump who says he is so perfect that he does not need Christ or his forgiveness.

Like today's evangelical/religious right supporters, Trump is a Political Christian, not a Christian of faith.

Evangelicals/religious right are easily able to spin their beliefs for political expediency.

The Donald who does not have to ask Jesus for forgiveness.

The Donald who ridicules Holy Communion.

Trump: Drink my little wine, have my little cracker

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2015/08/13/donald-trump-religion-serfaty-dnt-erin.cnn

[LAS14]

14. Cheers from a Lutheran fellow Christian. I've also...

... met a number of really good evangelicals. I wish they'd get more press. Thanks to Donald J. Trump for bringing attention to the Christianity Today editorial, and more than that, for getting Jim Wallis on national TV. Check out www.sojo.net.

[McKim]

15. Main Line Churches are Social Justice Supporters

Many people are so turned off to Christianity because of these extremist churches that they fail recognize that most of our main line churches are supporting social and economic justice. They are doing God’s work and many are not aware of it. The main line churches need growth, think about joining a church and supporting their work.

[LAS14]

22. + 1000

[jberryhill]

35. The problem is this:

"Main line" isn't "main line" any more. It's more like "line that went from over 30% in the mid 1970's to more like 10% now".

Those "extremist" protestant churches which do not recognize main line denominations as "Christian" are also declining, but have overtaken "main line" churches by a factor of 2.

[Beartracks]

42. It looks like mainline is where all the "no religion" is coming from...

... but probably due to all the extremists getting so much attention, press, and power that they're turning off a LOT of people?

=======

[jberryhill]

44. My guess would be...

That there is a dynamic flow between Mainline and Evangelical, with Evangelical obtaining a net gain, and that "No religion" receives contributions from both Mainline and Evangelical.

But it would be interesting to know if there is a significant flow from Mainline -> Evangelical -> None, indicative of splits which have occurred in Mainline denominations over the years on precisely those social issues which distinguish them.

What I've seen in my lifetime looks like...

Mainline denominations started ordaining women. Splits happened with the "remainers" going to the Evangelical box and the "changers" continuing as Mainline.

Mainline denominations opposed the war in Vietnam. Splits happened...

Mainline denominations ordained gay officiants. Splits happened....

Mainline denominations recognized, and/or performed same sex marriages. Splits happened....

IMHO, over the years Mainline denominations have gone through a process of shedding adherents into Evangelicalism by default, but then there is a significant burnout/disillusionment with Evangelicalism, causing people to fall into the "none" box.

There may also be some flow the other way, with disillusioned Evangelicals opting for Mainline denominations, but then coming to a realization that they just don't need to wind up God on Sundays.

But that is entirely speculative just based on what I've seen in the religious communities I've known in my area.

[Marcuse]

55. Before our lifetimes, denominations split over US slavery and Jim Crow. Past is prologue.

[quakerboy]

46. But.. are they though?

Like.. When people in the mainline churches line up to vote, or have conversations about important policies in election season, are they really supporting social justice as a primary function, or are they just as likely to be putting their actual votes, dollars, and time to supporting causes they hold in common with the evangelicals while giving barely more than lip service to justice issues?

According to Wikipedia, I should be using we, not they. But im slightly uncomfortable with the idea of us as protestants. Or mainline.

But I dont see it. I see pockets of it rising, but I dont see it as a main cause of the mainline churches at this point. We/they lose the thoughtless to the evangelicals because we wont indulge in enough hellfire and brimstone, and the thoughtful to the ether because we are too reluctant to rock the boat when justice or love demand it.

[Aussie105]

16. I'm of the firm belief

that religion is an intensely personal thing. No need for churches, people preaching from the pulpit, etc. Just me and my personal beliefs.

I will quite happily believe that there were historical figures who cared about the welfare of the people around them beyond anything else, be they named Jesus Christus or Buddha to name just two. It's their values that are important, not their names or the social context in which they lived. Or how people wrote them into the history books, or how people use their name to justify being horrible to others.

But if you want to join a church as a social group that does good in your local community, no harm in that.

(Does that make Donald the anti-Christ? It's a question I'm asking myself more and more these days.)

[pazzyanne]

32. "(Does that make Donald the anti-Christ? It's a question I'm asking myself more and more these days.

I have often felt this way about Donald and his ilk. So, yes, I think he is.

[soldierant]

57. Oh, yeah.

And the "False Prophet" is either Franklin Graham or Jerry Falwell or both.

None of which means that the same wasn't true of Hitler, or Stalin, or any number of others. It's more of a historical pattern than a unique historical event. It's vivid to us, and it's easy for us to assign roles, because we are living it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

37. Yes, it is intensely personal.

I have very strong personal beliefs that I don't find necessary to share with others. My sense of what's right or true does not depend on others' believing the same way. Plus, I'm not saying that if you don't believe my way you're doomed or damned or even wrong. As strongly as I believe, I don't think others have to believe the same way. It's highly personal.

And I think pretty much every one here would agree with this: It's not the number of believers that makes something right or wrong. Think in terms of science. Certain things are true. Other things are not. And even though I might think my take on various things is absolutely correct, it's not my belief that makes it so. Which means I fully recognize that I may well be totally wrong. And that's also why I don't try to convince others of my particular beliefs.

Let me put it another way. If you have religious or spiritual or personal beliefs that give you comfort in trying times, then embrace them. They are valid and good. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I will offer the caveat that those beliefs may not work for others and you must accept that.

[Butterflylady]

17. And very Merry Christmas to you

[Lonestarblue]

18. You sound like the people I know who have real faith.

They’re all some variety of Christian faith (Methodist, Episcopalian, and no specific denomination). What they all share is genuine belief and living by their beliefs, not whatever is politically expedient. I admire them greatly.

And Merry Christmas to you. May it be a safe, happy holiday.

[AllaN01Bear]

19. ditto

i cant stand them either . one time was sent home from a very nortorious day school with the black sin of the devil from them at the age of 4. what a thing to tell a 4 year old .

[Paladin]

20. Me too, Bravo.

I don't seem to have any trouble, not being an asshole about it.

[Wounded Bear]

21. Spirituality vs Religion...

IMHO, the big difference is that spirituality brings people together while religion tends to pull people apart.

Spirituallity is inclusive, religion gets too tribal.

YMMV

[Beartracks]

43. I think you're onto something. n/t

[cab67]

23. I'm not sure I can be called a person of faith anymore.

But I used to be.

And I became a liberal when I read the Gospels.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

38. I was raised Roman Catholic.

Which means I was not at all encouraged to read the Bible.

When I decided to try reading it as a young adult, I was completely gobsmacked. Trust me, if you have no prior experience with the Old Testament, the beginning parts of Genesis read like science fiction.

[milestogo]

24. As long as your Presbyterian Ass does things "decently and in order" I'm fine with it.

[trueblue2007]

25. me too ... and I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior decades ago. back in the 60's

[Rural_Progressive]

27. I'm an animist

and I had a lovely Winter Solstice thank you very much.

Wishing a Happy Winter Holiday Season to all of you.

[NBachers]

28. Amen. And Merry Christmas.

[Yeehah]

29. Cool by me bro.

I'm agnostic but to each his own.

[pazzyanne]

30. Amen, and thank you for your post!

[PatrickforO]

31. Yes. I won't speak much of my own faith except to say that

I'm definitely a Book of James kind of guy rather than an Ephesians type.

If that means anything.

[LuvNewcastle]

33. I think you've made a good choice for yourself.

I guess I would be something like a Hindu because I like incense and statues and letting others be themselves while I do as I see fit. At least that's my twisted Western idea of Hinduism. Regardless of what religion I am, I'll always enjoy Christmas. You have a good one, 11 Bravo.

[jberryhill]

34. Don't you need a vote of the session to kiss a Presbyterian ass?

[StarfishSaver]

36. Hear Hear!

Merry Christmas to you, too!

[AnotherMother4Peace]

39. I was raised by the Biblical golden rule: Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

I'm looking to get back into a caring community of faith, not hatred, not "I'm better than you", not judgmental crap. Just a community that cares for each other and their community/world. I know why so many people are getting turned off to religion. So many of them are so full of hate and greed.

[jberryhill]

45. But there are too many masochists who live by that rule

Consequently, they inflict torture on other people, because it is what they so desperately want for themselves.

The Golden Rule, as applied by masochists, is not good for the rest of us.

[rufus dog]

40. As a non believer I accept and support your belief

Have a lot of friends with beliefs similar to yours and I respect and support their beliefs.

Bluntly I feel for you, to have beliefs that are being ruined by others who can't follow the basic teachings, and then having to defend those beliefs by others who prejudge all of those who are Christians because of the many of those who don't follow the basic teachings.

God Bless you and Merry Christmas to you.

[not_the_one]

41. Forgive me, but I find ALL "godspeak" quite cultish.

I am happy it works for you.

I caught that same fish, decades ago, at the age of 11, in 1962. I was baptized knowing full well what I was doing, and why. Within 3 to 4 years I threw that fish back into the water. Too many contradictions, inconsistencies. Plus, I didn't need someone one to tell me how to be a good person. I found it innate.

MY mileage did vary, greatly.

Even so, I think Mayor Pete is the best in our vast array of EXCELLENT candidates, in spite of his religious enthusiasm.

[Roy Rolling]

47. Forgive me, too

That logic is like a fan on the deck of a sailboat. It fills the sails but the boat ain’t going nowhere.

Here’s the logical flaw: your definition of “good” varies greatly, what many innately say is “good” is different from you.

So the concept of “good” comes from outside of your innate belief system. Nobody is born with that knowledge, and at age 11 making an informed decision is questionable, as evidenced by the fact you reversed that lifelong decision in 3 years.

I also find religious facts contradictory, but also the concept of being born with complete knowledge of right and wrong.

Cheers.

[cry baby]

48. You do have a way with words, sir. nt

[certainot]

49. media is mistaking dittoheads for evangelicals

[llashram]

51. And

I second that!

[kooth]

52. I'm also a Boomer, but ...

I'm an atheist; however, I used to be a Christian and I understand what good Christians believe. And what good Christians believe has nothing to do with whatever is coming out of Drumpf's pie hole.

I respect your beliefs. I feel for you and other Christians who have to explain to other people why Drumpf doesn't deserve to be called a Christian.

Good luck! It's good to have other like-minded people in this fight against this orange baboon!

[Kid Berwyn]

53. Merry Christmas, 11Bravo!

Happy holidays to all!

[Hortensis]

54. :) Merry Christmas, 11 Bravo.

(In the new year, a good resolution for everyone who disapproves of hatemongering against religion, instead of its bad practitioners, would be to call it out. Hate speech really shouldn't be considered acceptable, and we can change that.)

[Marcuse]

56. Crossing the desert border seeking asylum from King Herod.