TRUMP is responsible for all those killed on the Ukrainian plane.

[EveHammond13]

THIS IS THE EXACT REASON you don't act like an idiot ass and stir up a war for no reason.

Because in a war SHlT HAPPENS.

BLOOD ON TRUMP'S HANDS.

[Vinca]

1. That's what I've been saying. They were probably fleeing Tehran to avoid U.S. bombs

and look what happened. I hate fucking Donald Trump.

[Mila18]

15. Meanwhile ...

"All is well."

[luvtheGWN]

18. There were 63 Canadian citizens on that plane

and 138 of the passengers were headed for Toronto. Many of the citizens (families, students, children) were Iranian Canadians who had been visiting family over the holidays.

Pence is "claiming" that the Iranians shot down the plane (which has been confirmed) because Iran thought it was full of Americans. Spin spin spin.......

[amcgrath]

22. It hasn't officially been confirmed

I highly doubt that there were any Americans in Tehran. Or flying through. The Canadians on board were also Iranian citizens or of Iranian ancestry.

During a radio discussion on CBC this morning, somebody mentioned what it would have meant if an American had been on board - a pretty chilling thought.

[luvtheGWN]

28. P.M. Trudeau has said it was confirmed.

There is video.

I understand that taking the plane from Teheran, via Kyiv to Toronto is the cheapest method. iran is saying it was an accident -- and yes, perhaps it was. There is NO justification for Pence saying it was retaliation because Iran thought the plane was "filled with Americans". If Iran really thought so, they would have had ample opportunity to check the manifest beforehand.

This is ALL trump's fault -- no two ways about it.

[onecaliberal]

26. Because we all know Americans can't wait to vacation in the Middle East wars.

[RestoreAmerica2020]

35. House should censure Pence for false statement, promoting propaganda

..and if he has intelligence to prove his claim, then he must be required to provide proof or stfu!

[still_one]

2. There is blood on trump's hand, but not because of this. The Iranian screwed up, not unlike when we

accidentally shot an Iranian passenger jet down in the 80’s

[katmondoo]

3. He is a murderer and this is not his first time

[still_one]

6. Not because of the airplane

[EveHammond13]

8. but for trump's seeking to distract from impeachment, those people would be alive

[Blueplanet]

25. I agree.

It was to distract from his impeachment. I wonder how he feels about the innocent people that were killed.

[luvtheGWN]

29. I'm sure he feels nothing but gratitude

that it was only Canadians, and not Americans.

[Pantagruel]

4. Reduced to the very basics

RELIGION is the culprit. In this case Iran's embrace of Shia muslim dominance.
Not that being a Sunni, a Christian, a Jew or a Druid for that matter is much better for being a tolerant member of the human race.

[JuJuYoshida]

5. he's just full of himself

he'll claim a win on a crisis he made. I swear everything he THINKS he's done, he looks at himself this way

[dewsgirl]

7. Discussed this with my son just a little bit ago. He has their

blood in his hands.

[Dem4Life1102]

9. Later he'll complain that all the evidence against Biden

was on that plane and that the Iranians shot it down to help Biden because they're afraid of him being President.

[Traildogbob]

16. Already trending

A nut wing called Thom Hartmann today pushing the theory, Hilary, Obama and Biden operatives shot it down because it was stopping over in Ukrain with witnesses going there to present evidence of all three of them being envolved in corruption in Ukrain and voter tampering. We'll see what happens, that I can tell you, believe me.

[Karadeniz]

20. Unbelievable, sickening.

[robbob]

27. Well, to be fair,

Last edited Thu Jan 9, 2020, 08:50 PM - Edit history (1)

There are plenty of crazy conspiracies floating around here in DU. Just yesterday an otherwise rational friend of mine was trying to tell me the Americans shot down the plane to try and make Iran look bad. And THAT was why there were no Americans on the plane.

I told her a) do you really think you can fire a rocket deep into Iran without being detected, and b) do you REALLY think tRump or anyone in his administration gives a fuck about killing a few innocent Americans civilians?

[Traildogbob]

31. Wow

Was hoping that 35 percent of tRumpitis was our most important enemy. But damn, left nut jobs as well? Really believing our species has no place in this ecosystem. Darwin's theory coming into play. We are too stupid to survive natural selection. Any other organism in the 5 Kingdoms would have been wiped out centuries ago with this depth of stupid.

[Dem4Life1102]

30. Damn

I was joking

[FiveGoodMen]

10. Trump's One Hundred Million US followers are responsible.

They keep giving him good reviews.

They keep wanting to vote for him again.

They are ALL responsible for this.

And they'll keep trying to wreak this havoc with the next POS they elect.

[MLAA]

11. Exactly, he is just one despicable, ignorant asshole crook...millions voted for him.

[usaf-vet]

17. GOP Congress will accept that guilt if the whitewash the Senate trial. That and future blood.

[Aussie105]

12. Highly likely?

Sorry, but EVIDENCE?

It takes quite a while to determine why a plane went down.

To say 'Iran did it', and it's MF45's fault, lacks factual evidence.

All the media I've seen says it is highly likely, but that's not evidence!

Too easy to jump the gun, but let's not.

[ElementaryPenguin]

13. Yep.

[herding cats]

14. Trump and Iran share responsibility.

There is the blood of innocents on both of their hands.

[Loge23]

19. So that's at least two commercial aircraft shot down.

I'm sure we all recall Flight 17, the Malaysian aircraft shot down over the Ukraine by the Russians.
Now we have another with the same bullshit explanation of, basically, "whoops!"

Call it whatever, but this is mass murder plain and simple and whomever pulled the trigger or pushed the button is the murderer. Of course, in both incidents, there are many accomplices: Putin for Flight 17 and - yes, fellow Americans - the POTUS for the latest disaster, along with the Iranian leaders.

We tend to make a justified big deal over murders in this country - in most countries really. One will get you at least 25 years to life.
Yet when the clock strikes war, anything goes. Brutal killings, mass murders of civilians, snipers shooting people in the head - it's all apparently good to go as long as there is are "hostilities". And no one is held accountable.

The latest tragedy leaves 176 families without their loved one. It was a "mistake" it is said - a mistake.

What good is the Hague, the United Nations? What good is "justice"?

I'm not a religious person, but if this world isn't hell than I'd hate to see the real thing.

[NutmegYankee]

24. Murder requires intent.

You’d need to prove the missile battery crew knew it was a passenger plane. Accidents ARE punishable, but as negligent homicide and not murder.

[Cha]

21. Along with all the other innocent people's

blood that has been shed in his name.

[amcgrath]

23. I've just spent a good chunk of the day

Listening to special coverage on CBC radio. Many experts, academics, ex-intelligence and military experts.

There is still no full conformation of a missile. One expert thought that if iit was a missile it would likely have been a particular type that does not hit or blow up the target. It explodes next to the target showering it with shrapnel - that would fit preliminary reports. That weapons system is entirely automated, detecting aiming and firing autonomously. It's possible that it could have fired with nobody being immediately aware. And since it damages rather than destroys the plane, it may not have been recognized as a shoot down.

It was agreed by every expert that it was ridiculous to think Iran should submit black boxes to invite US teams or Boeing to investigate. Discussion of investigations and countries who could assist included many NATO countries - at no point was the US mentioned in that part of the discussion.

From every expert, every listener who called in and every presenter, there was nobody who did not hold the US responsible. If it turns out it was a shoot down, the present tension after the Soleimani assassination was given as the cause. One guest (ex intelligence) mentioned that it went back to Trump tearing up the Iran Nuclear agreement. When asked why that was done, he answered that it was because Trump has a pathological need to undo everything that Obama did.

Trump had been asking allies to step up and support him to tackle Iraq. Definitely in Canada and beyond, it is Trump, not Iran, that is being held responsible for these deaths.

[Kaleva]

36. Trump works for Putin and Putin sold Iran the AA system that may have shot the airliner down.

"Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine's Security Council, told reporters that a Russian-made missile is a likely cause after Iran said it was just engine failure.

"A strike by a missile, possibly a Tor missile system, is among the main (theories), as information has surfaced on the internet about elements of a missile being found near the site of the crash," he said."

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/iran-plane-crash-ukrainian-airliner-21247974


"Russia completed the delivery of 29 Tor-M1 missiles to Iran in January 2007."

https://sputniknews.com/military/201501291017507792/

[eclecticdyslexic]

32. But her emails ...

[gopiscrap]

38. welcome to DU

[42bambi]

33. I thought all air traffic was not allowed in that area, or

I'm totally mistaken. Some other time or place?

[RestoreAmerica2020]

34. Moved. []See response to #18 to luvthegwn.Re: pence propaganda]

[Skittles]

37. actually whoever fired the missile at the plane is responsible

BUT - they were provoked by Trump WITHOUT CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL so yes, absolutely he bears responsibility