General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSheriff Richard Vaughan VA says he won't enforce new gun laws.
"They're unconstitutional"
There is a real sickness in these people.
Link to tweet
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)dware
(12,462 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Or did the Rupublicans rescind that one?
dware
(12,462 posts)maybe he doesn't have the manpower or resources do enforce those laws, which aren't even laws yet.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)And that not enforcing such laws is not only stupid, but extremely dangerous?
dware
(12,462 posts)but if his voters don't want to remove him, then what?
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)You're the advocate for the insane pro-NRA gun laws we have in this country. Tell us what your proposal is for when shit goes cattywampus. Which - right now - is about every other day.
dware
(12,462 posts)the "insane pro-NRA gun laws"?
I myself don't have a solution, and I'm not sure what a solution would be short of banning and confiscation, which is never going to happen and I would oppose any attempt to implement any such solution, as would most people.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)"There's just nothing that we can do" is a popular one.
dware
(12,462 posts)all I said was I don't have a solution, but I'm quite sure there are things that can be done that I would agree with.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)which is pretty much nothing
dware
(12,462 posts)so, on that note, have a great day.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)And every time you do, you seem to bug out when your argument gets justifiably trashed.
Maybe you should re-think your misplaced gun advocacy.
dware
(12,462 posts)I'm just refusing to be drawn into an argument with you, it just seems pointless.
As I said, you have a great afternoon.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)dware
(12,462 posts)then be my guest in your fantasy.
Have a great night and good night to you.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)rather than the NRA-approved response of throwing up your hands & saying "There's nothing that can be done."
You can't do that without admitting the the whole premise of your anti-gun control stance is a lie. Instead you try and pretend others are to blame for your inadequacies.
samnsara
(17,656 posts)...our state AG said the entire county can be sued if the sheriff didnt uphold the law and that action led to person getting shot.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)The county might want to explore all avenues of removal ASAP just because they are going to have lawsuits to deal with. Whether or not they lose them you can bet that if there are gunshot victims there will be people suing over a sheriff refusing to enforce those laws.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)That is their primary source of income. Racist bastards.
dware
(12,462 posts)Do you live in that county? Do you have knowledge that's what he is spending all his resources on? If you do, could you please post the relevant links?
WVJoe
(16 posts)dware
(12,462 posts)poster is accusing the Sheriff of using his resources for harassing AA's without any proof thereof.
Hassler
(3,395 posts)obamanut2012
(26,180 posts)LastDemocratInSC
(3,656 posts)The Grayson Highlands area is amazing.
lpbk2713
(42,772 posts)How else could he decide the constitutionality of a law?
dumbcat
(2,120 posts)to defend the Constitution if they can't possibly determine what it says?
Words have meaning. I took an oath to defend the Constitution, and I will determine what that means without your, or anyone else's, help.
XRubicon
(2,213 posts)He doesn't get a say. Enforce the law or be fired.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)Reviewable discretion and there could be negative consequences, but there is discretion.
XRubicon
(2,213 posts)Law enforcement gets to pick and choose.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)From the lowest officer deciding not to give someone a speeding ticket to the president of the country ordering deferred action.
dumbcat
(2,120 posts)Will a Supreme Court Justice be at his side in every case to tell him what every word means and how it is to be interpreted?
Do words have meanings?
Thank you.
treestar
(82,383 posts)That's like Kim Davis refusing to issue a marriage license to gay couples.
Just doing what you want, not what the law is, abuses the power you've been given.
That's what the Dotard does.
dumbcat
(2,120 posts)It's doing what you believe the words in the law mean. Do you see the difference?
If you don't have a Supreme Court Justice at your side to interpret the words of the law for every specific instance, you have to go with what you believe the words mean. Yes, people can differ over what words mean, even words in common usage, much less legalese. Thus, we have lawyers and courts.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Kim Davis decided to enforce the law the way she wanted, perfectly aware of what the Supreme Court said. You would not want cops to enforce the law the way they interpreted the Bill of Rights for themselves.
dumbcat
(2,120 posts)Let's take another approach. I took an oath ... "I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion;..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office
I have copies of the Constitution. I've read it all my life. I'm educated. I can read the words. I can interpret them as well as any other citizen. Who is going to tell me, on a day by day and case by case basis, that I am wrong in any of my given interpretations?
treestar
(82,383 posts)The constitution is not the law all by itself.
Again, would you let cops do that? Maybe they interpret the 4th Amendment to allow they have probable cause whenever they think so.
onecaliberal
(32,976 posts)bluestarone
(17,101 posts)Kaleva
(36,384 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,503 posts)Kaleva
(36,384 posts)sensible gun control laws.
safeinOhio
(32,744 posts)until he can get a SC decision on it.
onecaliberal
(32,976 posts)The original logic was that many police chiefs are community employees. According to the National Sheriffs Association that means, who owe their allegiance to a city. That begs the question, Who do Sheriffs serve?. The answer is that the position of Sheriff has become a lucrative, self serving position of power. A sheriff can bend the law in your favor, bend the law against you, or simply break the law either way. Who is their oversight? Who can fire a sheriff?
No one. No one.
A sheriff is untouchable unless a criminal case is brought against him by the community prosecutor. This happens more than you can imagine. The fact is that sheriffs have no oversight. They have no one to make them walk the line.
Recent crooked sheriffs like :
Joe Aripiao, (Maricopa, Arizona, County Sheriff) who mistreats inmates in the prisons in his county, arrests people of Spanish decent without cause, and runs raids to round up people of color. (Joe is an example of a bad community supporting a crooked sheriff.)
Kaleva
(36,384 posts)But neither will happen if he has the support of a large portion of the voters.
onenote
(42,821 posts)But don't get too excited. His opponent was a Republican. And Grayson County is deep red: Hillary got less than 20 percent of the vote there in 2016.
Kaleva
(36,384 posts)onenote
(42,821 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and I don't particularly care if they find a worse redneck to replace him, since I don't have to live there.
dware
(12,462 posts)how will that happen?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)XRubicon
(2,213 posts)Maybe you could represent the Broward County Sheriff the the Florida governor fired.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/florida-senate-officially-removes-broward-county-sheriff-scott-israel-11571867474
The governor of Virginia should remove him immediately.
Kaleva
(36,384 posts)I don't know if Virginia has the same laws as Florida
"The Florida Constitution gives the governor power to suspend public officials for malfeasance, misfeasance, neglect of duty. Governors routinely remove public officials who are arrested or charged with crimes, but it is unusual to remove an officeholder who does not face criminal charges."
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-ne-ron-desantis-scott-israel-decision-20190110-story.html
onecaliberal
(32,976 posts)XRubicon
(2,213 posts)He is not the sheriff anymore
https://www.emsworld.com/news/1221999/fla-county-sheriff-fired-mishandling-parkland-shooting
Here is the new sheriff. I guess sheriff can be removed if gun humpers approve.
https://www.flsheriffs.org/sheriffs/bio/broward-county
Kaleva
(36,384 posts)I do not know if the same applies elsewhere like in Virginia.
onenote
(42,821 posts)That doesn't meant there isn't something in the Virginia statutes and/or Constitution that provides for the removal of an elected official -- but I didn't see it during my relatively cursory review.
dware
(12,462 posts)otherwise.... .
dware
(12,462 posts)obamanut2012
(26,180 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)* Fucking Idiot
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)there is something wrong with this nation
jimfields33
(16,070 posts)He cant be fired.
maxsolomon
(33,449 posts)They sure have their knickers in a twist.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)A: When the issue is gun control.
Similar things have happened in many rural NY counties, where, since 2013, one could theoretically be arrested for having more than seven rounds in a pistol magazine that has a capacity of ten.
sl8
(13,954 posts)Straw Man
(6,626 posts)There was one ruling against it by one judge, which was subsequently upheld by another. However, the overall picture is still murky:
https://www.timesunion.com/local/article/State-Police-guide-amended-to-ignore-seven-round-5355959.php
It's likely that any arrest would end up in a dismissal of charges, but the arrest itself would be sufficient in some jurisdictions to merit suspension or revocation of one's pistol permit.
sl8
(13,954 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:05 AM - Edit history (1)
That article was written in 2014 while the case was still under appeal.
In 2015, the 2d. Cir. agreed that the 7 round provision was invalid.
PDF: https://www.nysrpa.org/files/SAFE/NYSRPA_v_Cuomo_2CDecision.pdf
According to the following article from November 2018, the NY State Police resumed enforcement of the 7 round provision, despite the 2 Federal court decisions. I don't know if that's true in practice. Would like to find some corroboration. The article does provide good background info.
https://buffalonews.com/2018/11/19/amid-confusion-part-of-safe-act-will-stop-being-enforced-in-erie-county/
Amid confusion, part of SAFE Act will stop being enforced in Erie County
-----------------------------------------
On edit, more about enforcement of 7 round limit:
https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/local/prosecutor-nysp-statements-differ-on-ny-safe-enforcement/71-9a8e9956-abfa-4fa1-88e1-f5a383dbd356
Niagara County's D.A. will follow Erie County's lead, and not pursue charges against those arrested under part of the Safe Act. However, there is a discrepancy between how she says state police are looking at the law, and how they say there are actually handling it.
Author: Dave McKinley
Published: 7:02 PM EST January 4, 2019
Updated: 7:10 PM EST January 4, 2019
New York State Police say that contrary to the claim made by the Niagara County District Attorney in a news release, they are not arresting people and charging them under a section of the states gun control laws which a judge struck down as unconstitutional.
[...]
Contacted by phone in Albany, New York State Police Public Information Officer Beau Duffy told WGRZ-TV that state police had not resumed charging people under the section of NYSAFE in question, and that it had not done so since Judge Skretnys ruling was upheld by a federal appeals court in 2015.
[...]
Despite the courts ruling, the law regarding the seven round limit remains on the books under section 265.37 of the NY Penal Code.
State lawmakers have never removed it which means, technically, someone could still be arrested under that section of the law.
[...]
More at link.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)Here's an article from 2018:
https://www.policeone.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/some-ny-agencies-to-stop-enforcing-gun-law-1TkquKrEPviMujAq/
Unclear laws and selective enforcement don't exactly encourage faith in government.
spanone
(135,919 posts)So every sheriff gets to determine what is constitutional??? FUCK NO
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)MerryBlooms
(11,776 posts)republicans refusing to obey subpoenas, senate republican kangaroo court, republicans mobbed up, russians buying elections, russians hacking our elections with republicans aiding and abetting, republican president wiping his ass with our Constitution, entire republican party wiping their asses with our Constitution... It's fookin anarchy. Fookin wankers are stripping our country of our rights in every way, except their fookin wet dreams of buying guns. Selling our precious lands to the highest republican bidder, republican private prisons for slave labor, precious children locked cages by republicans and mocked by republicans, these craven rat bastard republicans are raping our country with every stroke of their pens. I have no idea who or what can save us.
What's next? If that fucker is re-elected, all bets are off.
Kaleva
(36,384 posts)He beat his Repub opponent by 100 votes in the last election.
MerryBlooms
(11,776 posts)Kaleva
(36,384 posts)"Sheriff plans to run for second term
There was little doubt that Grayson Sheriff Richard Vaughan would seek re-election, but the independent incumbent has made it official.
By Staff Reports
Wednesday, March 9, 2011 at 7:00 am (Updated: March 9, 7:58 am)
INDEPENDENCE Grayson County Sheriff Richard A. Vaughan has announced that he will seek re-election this November.
Vaughan, an independent whose first four-year term ends in December, will likely face a challenge from former Grayson deputy Mark Burnett, who is seeking the Republican nomination."
https://www.galaxgazette.com/content/sheriff-plans-run-second-term
Do you have any evidence that shows Vaughan is a Republican?
MerryBlooms
(11,776 posts)Doesn't make me feel any better that he's an independent.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)...don't either.
Who does he answer to? What you think is "common sense" or what his voters think is Constitutional?
It's going to be a protracted Court deal...if Va. actually passes/implements the proposed Bills.
Kaleva
(36,384 posts)Given his stand on gun control and the fact that independents holding office aren't that common.
MerryBlooms
(11,776 posts)to enforce laws, subpoenas, court orders... Is very disturbing. Virginia is taking some positive steps forward. I'd like to see them continue on their path. Thanks for the information and setting me straight, I appreciate it.
bluestarone
(17,101 posts)The victims family can sue his ass!! Take EVERTHING he has.
Kaleva
(36,384 posts)bluestarone
(17,101 posts)That's my thoughts.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)samnsara
(17,656 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:55 AM - Edit history (1)
..the victim can sue the entire county...cuz a few maggot-sherriffs here in my state said same thing.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Then he should run for congress, as clearly hes in the wrong line of work, if he cannot enforce laws on the books because he doesnt like them.
What an insane world.
Generic Brad
(14,276 posts)How is being able to buy 12 handguns in a one year period taking away their guns? Who the fuck needs 12 hand guns in a single year? Not one of those protesters is pissing away their own money on such an unnecessary purchase.
Do they even know what they are protesting?
ScratchCat
(2,017 posts)And there are two guns you want. Like going to Dick's and buying two golf clubs.
No, its not "taking away" anyone's guns, its just silly.
atreides1
(16,103 posts)You go to a gun show and buy 15 hand guns and then sell them to someone else...without background checks for all gun sales and no laws requiring the reporting of lost or "stolen" guns...you just made a profit and you don't really give a tinker's damn that one of those guns was used to kill a 3 year old child on a playground...
WVJoe
(16 posts)It is against the law to buy a gun with the intention of reselling it. It is also against the law to knowingly sell a gun to a prohibited person.
marble falls
(57,425 posts)as evidenced by those who sell at gun shows who have no official gun business and show week after week with more stock. If private sales aren't documented, how are those laws enforced?
I know because I go to our local gun show every month.
Besides aren't these laws you are against? They certainly are laws the morons in VA are against.
2naSalit
(86,897 posts)and retirement from the force should come swiftly for you.
And watch the irony when in six months he ends up a casualty of a mass shooting.
obamanut2012
(26,180 posts)2naSalit
(86,897 posts)in this case his not being a part of the corps can come in many ways.
raccoon
(31,130 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)he should be fired. That way, his conscience would be clear.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)ooky
(8,933 posts)Another right wing asshole abusing his office.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)And they will continue to do that unless and until we punish them.
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)*sigh*
Blues Heron
(5,948 posts)post haste
buh bye
These goobs just can't seem to transition into the 21st (or even 20th) century very well. Probably too much Fux news
onenote
(42,821 posts)dware
(12,462 posts)he can't be fired, he's an elected official and he's doing what his constituents want so he'll probably be re-elected.
Blues Heron
(5,948 posts)and he needs a good firin'
nation of laws
dware
(12,462 posts)by the voters in his county, and that's not going to happen, he's doing what the voters of his county want him to do.
I suggest you look up the role of Sheriffs in the US.
Blues Heron
(5,948 posts)look it up
jmg257
(11,996 posts)communities should be fired!
dware
(12,462 posts)Now what?
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)Removal of elected .. officers by courts
Upon petition, a circuit court may remove from office any elected officer .. residing within the jurisdiction of the court:
1. For neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties when that neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of the office ...
The petition must be signed by a number of registered voters who reside within the jurisdiction of the officer equal to ten percent of the total number of votes cast at the last election for the office that the officer holds ...
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title24.2/chapter2/section24.2-233/
dware
(12,462 posts)I highly doubt that the voters of his jurisdiction will sign anything to have him removed, it would seem that's what the voters of his county want him to do.
I read somewhere that he's pretty popular in his county and will most certainly be re-elected.
Cosmocat
(14,583 posts)Signatures on a petition from 10% of the total who voted in his or her election - would take some organization and work, but there surely are enough democrats in the district who would sign.
Put it front of the courts to sort out.
Would need a situation where it was documented that he chose to ignore the law.
dware
(12,462 posts)with him on this issue?
Cosmocat
(14,583 posts)Absolutely certain there are enough who would sign a petition to deal with this clown if he refuses to enforce the law.
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)Cosmocat
(14,583 posts)nm
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)Click November 5, 2019 General and Special Elections
then select RESULTS BY LOCALITY
then GALAX CITY and scroll down to SHERIFF
onenote
(42,821 posts)Hillary got less than 20 percent of the votes in Grayson County.
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)December 16, 2019
... One of the central issues in the November elections was gun control, and Virginia voters are firmly in support of further restrictions. The most widely supported restriction is making private gun sales and sales at gun shows subject to background checks (Q12A), with 86% of voters saying they support or strongly support that measure. Three-fourths (76%) of voters oppose or strongly oppose allowing a person who legally owns a gun to conceal carry that weapon without a permit (Q12C), while 73% say they support a red flag law allowing a family member or the police to seek a court order to temporarily take guns (Q12D) from legal gun owners judged to be a threat to harm themselves or others. While a majority of 54% of voters support a ban on assault-style weapons, this measure has the highest opposition, with 42% saying they oppose or strongly oppose such a ban (Q12B) ...
https://cnu.edu/wasoncenter/surveys/2019-12-16/
dustyscamp
(2,228 posts)Oregon sheriffs balk at enforcing new gun laws
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oregon-sheriffs-balk-at-enforcing-new-gun-laws/
At least 13 county sheriffs in Washington refuse to enforce new gun law
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/429460-at-least-13-county-sheriffs-in-washington-refusing-to-enforce-states-new
Colorado Sheriffs Threaten Not To Enforce Their Own States Gun Laws
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/03/17/1732291/colorado-sheriffs-threaten-not-to-enforce-their-own-states-gun-laws/
Some Washington sheriffs refuse to enforce new gun laws
https://apnews.com/b186ce346d2d446babceaf15fec68e6c
Colorado Sheriffs Wont Enforce New Gun Laws
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/colorado-sheriffs-wont-enforce-new-gun-laws-daniel-foster/
dubyadiprecession
(5,737 posts)That son of a bitch needs to be fired!
dware
(12,462 posts)a Sheriff can't be fired, he's an elected official, he can be voted out of office, but that's unlikely in this case, he's doing what the voters of his county want him to do and he'll most likely be re-elected.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)You keep saying this but you havent actually verified it at all. You are spreading ignorance and for some reason you are doing it vehemently. As was pointed out by another poster who looked it up (thanks for that) he can be removed by way if petition and the courts.
Now whether or not it is likely to happen is another ball of wax but youve gone on and on telling everyone they are wrong and you have neglected to make sure that you are right.
LonePirate
(13,437 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)Kaleva
(36,384 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)That's inconvenient.
atreides1
(16,103 posts)"Upon petition, a circuit court may remove from office any elected officer or officer who has been appointed to fill an elective office, residing within the jurisdiction of the court:
1. For neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties when that neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of the office;"
dustyscamp
(2,228 posts)SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)has never actually read the Constitution.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)dware
(12,462 posts)Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)my life isn't going to be affected one iota. I'm guessing all the residents in his county sounding off here should get to the polls come November, or when ever his next election is.
NiteOwl1
(87 posts)He should be fired immediately. Outlaws have no place in law enforcement. He has no credibility as an officer of the law.
rockfordfile
(8,709 posts)lark
(23,182 posts)He is refusing to support the law, out he goes, on his head.
onenote
(42,821 posts)The County didn't hire him and they don't have the power to remove him.
Plus, they wouldn't be inclined to anyway since I'm quite confident that every elected official in Grayson County (as red as they come) agrees with his stance.
lark
(23,182 posts)Here a sheriff is elected as well, but can be removed for cause by City Council with 2/3 vote. Our city is the entire county, so there is no difference between the 2.
onenote
(42,821 posts)AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)Bettie
(16,139 posts)Background checks, on all gun sales, with exemptions for transfers by close family members and estates. Oooh, scary!
A limit on the number of handguns one may purchase (one per month...if you can't function with only twelve new guns a year, you've got a serious issue). There are also exemptions on this one.
So, what do these gun nuts want? A free-for-all old west fantasy world where they get to go out and shoot that kid that steps on their lawn on the way home from school, that old lady who butts in front of them in the checkout at the grocery store, and that cop who dares to stop them for speeding or drunk driving?
And don't forget shooting your kid in the head while playing with him...good times. https://abcnews.go.com/US/father-year-son-shot-head-play-wrestling-mans/story?id=68419321
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Your job is to enforce the laws of your state. You have stated that you will not do so. You are dismissed.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)Can't be fired -- must be impeached.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Straw Man
(6,626 posts)When the next election comes around, you can vote for someone else to occupy the position. Removing someone from office during their term requires impeachment, which is generally not conducted by open referendum.