They keep saying Trump is giving more support than President Obama did to Ukraine

[mahina]

Zelensky was elected President of Ukraine on 21 April 2019

Prior to that there was a very corrupt administration. We would not rationally be giving them a lot of military support for Pete’s sake.

Once again then obfuscate and blow smoke.

[NYC Liberal]

1. Also it's irrelevant.

The issue is threatening to remove support for not launching an investigation of his political rival — not how much support was being given before.

[LastDemocratInSC]

5. You are correct.

[Lock him up.]

2. They're scared sh!tless so they resort to their grasping-at-straws strategy of...

... muddying the waters.

So predictable.

[Mike 03]

3. Didn't Obama's generals advise him Ukrainians weren't quite ready for heavy weaponry? nt

[karynnj]

4. Far more complicated than that

After Russia sent military, without the insignia of Russian uniforms, to Crimea and essentially annexed it, the US worked with the EU and set up the sanctions that Russia has since then demanded be ended. The sanctions were increased when Russia supported Russian speaking Ukrainians living in Donetsk, a section of Eastern Ukraine on the border with Russia. The rebels there, with weapons given by Russia, were the ones who shot down the Malaysian airplane. (RT disputed that and some hear were willing to blame them).

So, where does the charge that Obama did less come from? McCain, Graham et al demanded that President Obama approve heavy weapons to Ukraine to fight the rebels in Donetsk. Obama's administration opted for an ECONOMIC response of international sanctions. The worry was that feeding the "hot" war - on the border of Russia was likely to backfire. (Note that Ukraine now has some of those weapons -- but are not allowed to use them.)

If you ignore the huge amount of diplomacy that kept EU with us - even as the sanctions on Russia impacted them negatively as they bought Russian petrochemicals before the sanctions and looked at ONLY who sent stronger weapons, you could say Russia did less. However, remember that removing those sanctions - and the additional ones added after the 2016 election but before Trump became President - have been the biggest "ask" Russia has made. It greatly impacted their economy.

[crickets]

12. Important points. nt

[spanone]

6. i think trump tells them to say that....he supported them more than Obama.

thinks it makes him look tough and Obama weak....it's bullshit, of course

[jmg257]

7. And don't forget how useful that wonderful best most ever support is/was....

But while there is evidence that the Javelin sale has been a powerful gesture of support for Kyiv, the missiles’ military application has been far more limited. Under the conditions of the foreign military sale, the Trump administration stipulates that the Javelins must be stored in western Ukraine—hundreds of miles from the battlefield.

“I see these more as symbolic weapons than anything else,” said Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at Rand Corp. Experts say the conditions of the sale render them useless in the event of a sustained low-level assault—the kind of attack Ukraine is most likely to face from Russia.

Trump’s claim about supplying far more critical military aid to Ukraine than Obama is hyperbolic at best in other ways. The Obama administration did draw criticism for its refusal to approve lethal assistance to Ukraine, including the Javelin missile sale Trump cited. But it did commit to Kyiv more than $600 million in security assistance and equipment, including armored Humvee vehicles, unmanned aerial vehicles, countermortar radars, night vision equipment, and medical supplies.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/03/far-from-the-front-lines-javelin-missiles-go-unused-in-ukraine/

[mahina]

8. +1, deserves an OP

I didn’t know that.

[Wounded Bear]

9. Trump didn't give Ukraine shit...Congress did.

Trump didn't turn over the money until this whole fiasco was exposed.

[mahina]

10. +1

[blogslut]

11. They're using weasle words.

Ukraine wants to buy Javelins. Previous US administrations felt these weapons would not actually help Ukraine. When they say 45's people are providing "more" support, they mean more weapons that probably won't do any good.

https://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-leaving-out-key-detail-trump-javelin-sale-to-ukraine-2019-11