****LIVE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL 1/28/20 THREAD 1****

[BumRushDaShow]

[nolabear]

1. Thank you once more. Back to The Confederacy of Dunces

One of my favorite books. It’s really satisfying to see it trending today. I expect the upcoming session won’t disabuse anyone of that notion.

[BumRushDaShow]

4. At least they are concluding their stuff today as I understand

Will be interesting to see what the next steps are - I think the questions.

[Kali]

2. scared me - thought it was starting early

I have to take somebody to a doctor in Tucson so I am going to miss most of the day. I really hate to watch recordings for hours but may have to do so tonight.

Thanks again for doing these threads!

[BumRushDaShow]

3. They do sometimes start the cameras up before 1pm ET because they are filing in

and they are getting the Chaplain ready to do the benediction!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

8. Thank you!

[BumRushDaShow]

5. Chief Justice has arrived at the Capitol and is being escorted through the building.

[BumRushDaShow]

6. House Managers arrived about 5 minutes ago

[BumRushDaShow]

7. Camera feed in the Senate is now on

[BumRushDaShow]

9. Chief Justice at the dais and introduced the Chaplain for the benediction

[Hermit-The-Prog]

10. talkers on local ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS ...

One talker on ABC mentioned Republicans trying to "run out the clock on the news cycle".

[BumRushDaShow]

12. The John Kelly revelation just blew that away

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Pledge of allegiance

[Kali]

13. husband just came in and claims Managers will get rebuttal time before questions

anybody hear this?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

23. I hope it is so.

[Kali]

31. I had not heard anything like that and he is so often wrong

so I kind of doubt it

[BumRushDaShow]

14. Sergeant of Arms - proclamation

[mobeau69]

15. The Chaplain always prays for protection from the traitor.

[nolabear]

16. Does that prayer get vetted?

Smiles on their faces and evil in their hearts is strong language. Of course they’ll all claim it’s not them.

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Yesterday his benediction included

"and the truth will set you free..."

He has been doing some BIG TIME code talking with the benedictions.

[crickets]

41. And it all goes into the record, which is sweet. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

17. Turtle - "several hours of session today with one quick break in the middle"

[BumRushDaShow]

18. And Cippycup up - saying they are not going to use up the time

3 presentations and will be done by "dinner time".

[Hermit-The-Prog]

19. ... and mute; CC turned on

[BumRushDaShow]

22. LOL

[BumRushDaShow]

20. Pat Philbin up. Supposedly addressing "abuse of power" charge

[Hermit-The-Prog]

24. key word is "[s]upposedly" :)

[nolabear]

21. They're finishing up today. And no heavy hitters.

They’re gassed out.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

26. and here I've been blaming the dog for the smell.

[nolabear]

30. Baby, I've got two French/English bulldogs.

I know whereof you speak! 🐕💨

[BumRushDaShow]

27. John Kelly popped whatever bubble they had left

Ex-WH chief of staff Kelly says he believes Bolton's account of Ukraine allegation
Kaitlan Collins byline

By Kaitlan Collins, CNN

Updated 12:54 PM ET, Tue January 28, 2020

Washington (CNN)Former White House chief of staff John Kelly says he believes John Bolton's allegation that President Donald Trump told the former national security adviser that US security aid to Ukraine was conditioned on an investigation of the President's political rivals, adding that Bolton should be heard from.

"If John Bolton says that in the book I believe John Bolton," Kelly said Monday night when asked about the leaked draft manuscript during remarks at the Ringling College Library Association Town Hall lecture series, according to the Herald Tribune of Sarasota, Florida.

Kelly said Bolton "always gave the president the unvarnished truth" and is a "man of integrity and great character." "I mean, half of Americans think this process is purely political and shouldn't be happening, but since it is happening, the majority of Americans would like to hear the whole story," Kelly said. "So I think if there are people that could contribute to this, either innocence or guilt ... I think they should be heard. I think some of the conversations seem to me to be very inappropriate but I wasn't there. But there are people that were there that ought to be heard from."

Bolton's allegations, contained in a draft manuscript first reported by The New York Times, have led to fresh calls from Democrats for Bolton to testify in Trump's impeachment trial.

This story is breaking and will be updated.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/28/politics/john-kelly-believes-john-bolton/index.html

[Hermit-The-Prog]

32. lordy, is that revolving door at the WH really the proverbial fan?

[BumRushDaShow]

35. All of the "publicly fired" should join together

Someone on MSNBC was saying something about Mattis too - perhaps he needs to join the gang.

[H2O Man]

25. Recommended.

Another day of dynamic presentations.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

28. Phil-the-bin-with-bull claims it's dangerous to impeach.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. WTF is he talking about bills of attainder???

Impeachment has NOTHING to do with a bill of attainder.

I guess he's trying to remove impeachment out of the Constitution.

[BumRushDaShow]

34. He is attempting to claim that the House Impeachment is a bill of attainder/ex post-facto act

[Hermit-The-Prog]

36. the U.S. Constitution is unconstitutional! what's he been snortin'?

[BumRushDaShow]

39. Whatever it is

it's probably close to his dropping some acid.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

42. Some good Public Service Announcement material in this ...

I can foresee someone taking a few quotes from these WH counsels, with the message beneath: This is your brain on Fox.

[BumRushDaShow]

45. DUzy!

[crickets]

43. No kidding. I hope the talking heads rip him to shreds over it. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

37. WTF????? He is throwing government employees under the bus

[Hermit-The-Prog]

38. it's going to be another day of blab blab blab ...

At least it's not loud, like before

[Hermit-The-Prog]

40. Someone should tell Philbin that Castor didn't make a good impression.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

44. now he's doing the 'not my job' defense ...

His argument appears to be: Since extorting an ally to help you win an election is not an intelligence community activity, the whistleblower complaint could legally be hidden from Congress.

[Raven]

46. These people are terrible. Right now they are parsing the Whistleblower statute...

hey fellas, the horse left that barn a long time ago. They are basically telling people to unhear what they've already heard.

[BumRushDaShow]

47. He's done and handing off to Suckylow

[nolabear]

48. ...

[BumRushDaShow]

52. Now he is doing a CT - "Crossfile Hurricane" and the dossier

[crickets]

49. So much about the power of the presidency -

it's amazing that they are tossing away the responsibility of necessary Congressional oversight.

[malaise]

65. It's hard to watch these lies

over and over

[BumRushDaShow]

50. WTF?????????????????

[Kali]

54. my thought too

[Mersky]

51. Oh, philbin was saying the OLC under this pResident is an impartial voice?

Sounds like he’s making a great case for some expert witnesses. What do previous OLC officers think? Hmmm?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

55. this whole defense by the dregs begs for more witnesses

[Mersky]

60. They beg so many questions.

It’s not even funny, except for when it is. And I have heard the need for more witnesses throughout their ‘arguments’.

[crickets]

69. I keep wondering what the Supreme Court thinks about his high

opinion of the OLC and its role.

The Office of Legal Counsel and Secret Law

In theory, it’s the province of the judiciary to say what the law is, but in practice this task often falls to the Office of Legal Counsel. This is because many important questions relating to the scope of executive power never come before the courts. It’s the executive branch that has the last word, and within the executive branch, it’s the OLC. When questions arise about what the government has the power to do, it’s often the OLC that answers them. When agencies have disagreements about the law, it’s the OLC that resolves them.

Because they have the force of law within the executive branch, and because they often address topics of real consequence, the OLC’s opinions are frequently the subject of litigation under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Usually this litigation arises under the provisions of FOIA that require federal agencies to respond to requests for records. Someone learns of the existence of an OLC opinion, requests it, and then sues to enforce the request when the OLC fails to respond, or when it claims the opinion is privileged. Occasionally this kind of litigation results in important disclosures, but there’s something disturbingly backwards, and even undemocratic, about a system that allows the government to conceal and withhold opinions that have the force of law unless and until someone requests them. [snip]

...the OLC has accumulated, over the years, a body of legal opinions that have the force and effect of law but whose very existence is concealed from the public. It’s impossible to estimate the size of this hidden corpus, but it’s perhaps useful to note that a case litigated by the ACLU two years ago uncovered, more-or-less by accident, the existence of almost a dozen OLC opinions whose existence the OLC had not previously acknowledged. A report published by the Brennan Center last year suggests there may be many more.

The OLC contends that its opinions are categorically exempt from the reading-room provisions because these opinions constitute legal advice, not law. But the description of the OLC’s formal written opinions as advisory is, at best, incomplete. Within the executive branch, the OLC’s opinions are accorded essentially the same status as opinions of the U.S. Supreme Court. Steven Bradbury, who led the OLC during President George W. Bush’s second term, wrote in 2005 that “OLC opinions are controlling on questions of law within the Executive Branch.” David Barron, who led the office during the Obama administration, observed in 2010 that the OLC is “frequently asked to opine on issues of first impression that are unlikely to be resolved by the courts—a circumstance in which OLC’s advice may effectively be the final word on the controlling law.” In litigation, the OLC describes its final opinions as advisory, but in fact it views these opinions as binding on federal agencies, and this is how the agencies view them, too. Many OLC opinions are better characterized as law than as legal advice.

[Mersky]

84. Is a helpful addition, and ponder some

Seems to be a rather flawed system with some inherent weaknesses as revealed by what we’re witnessing today.

I have been aggravated with the referencing to the OLC memo from the Clinton days saying a sitting president can’t be charged with a crime. The lines between legal advice under the political umbrella, force of law, and a poor mechanism for review are way too blurred.

...

Thank you for posting it, Crickets!

[crickets]

92. Nailed it.

The lines between legal advice under the political umbrella, force of law, and a poor mechanism for review are way too blurred.

Right there. It is a problem.

[Mersky]

104. Thanks. Is a slippery thing, the OLC

I think it finally crystallized in my brain, and yeah, it’s a problem.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

53. Sucky begging for pity for poor, picked-on baby Donnie.

[BumRushDaShow]

56. ...

[Kali]

57. WTF is he on about?

[BumRushDaShow]

58. He completely diverted off the subject of this trial

[Hermit-The-Prog]

62. CC just made an apt misspelling: "dually elected president"

Ha!

Yep, he was "dually" elected -- Putin and the propaganda machine of Murdoch & Sinclair.

[BumRushDaShow]

73. LOL

[crickets]

82. Duly elected president! In an election year!

Talking points for FOX, nothing more. They have no defense.

[Arkansas Granny]

59. Oh, good grief. Now we're back to Page and Strzok. Is that called grasping at straws?

[madaboutharry]

61. Looks like they are wrapping up before lunch.

The entire defense was pathetic. All they have done is lie and complain of how everyone is so mean to Trump and that everyone else sucks.

Oh my, did I just hear the names Lisa Page and Peter Strzok?

Sekulow is just whining now.

[nolabear]

63. I think they're wrapping up altogether. They're done.

B-List bunch.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

64. They were done before they started. :)

[crickets]

75. True. Their entire defense has been gasbaggery.

They should be embarrassed, but...

[BumRushDaShow]

76. I think they said "3 presentations" so may have one more to do

(unless they want to cut that... )

[crickets]

79. He just threw out their names and said

"I'm not going to go into it. You know who they are."

WTF it this?

[gademocrat7]

66. Insufferable nonsense

This delusional defense squad should be disbarred.

[Arkansas Granny]

67. He's repeating himself now. They've got nothing.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

71. Your 'sig' really applies to this gang.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

68. Is Sucky confusing himself now? House managers, you're not the leader, yada

OT: my connection today reminds me of 2400 baud modem connections back in the day.

[Kali]

70. ...

[Hermit-The-Prog]

74. They won't risk making trumpie mad ...

They have to buy the expensive straws to grasp:

[BumRushDaShow]

72. WTF? "They show you this and not that?" The ENTIRE body of every hearing was broadcast LIVE

and there are multiple copies of it all over the internet.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

77. The House dug down to the minutia of the case.

[BumRushDaShow]

81. Exactly

and the hearings were not "covered up" because they are available on youtube right now. All the clips that the House Managers showed as well as those that the idiot side showed, are ALL available.

The GOP are the ones who cherry-picked and are covering up by blocking evidence and people.

[BumRushDaShow]

78. Let's bring them BOTH in to testify under oath about who is right and wrong

[nolabear]

80. Oooohhhhh...a Bolton prebuttal!! Listen carefully.

There will be tells everywhere.

[BumRushDaShow]

86. They can't pre-butt Kelly though

[nolabear]

88. Yep, the chickens are coming home, and they're pissed.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

83. Bidens! Burisma! ZOMBIE SQUIRRRRRRRELS FROM HELL!

[Mersky]

91. Danger! Danger!

They’re coming for your nuts! 🥜

[Hermit-The-Prog]

95. LOL

[Mersky]

105. I mean how many times has he said, danger!?!!

Good grief.


Gah, he just said three more in a row.

[SamKnause]

85. Lying fucker trying to pretend this is about policy.

[BumRushDaShow]

87. He is truly lost in space!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

93. Aha! So Dr. Smith is behind this scheme and team!

[crickets]

89. After watching the tightly prepared case given by House managers

which took everyone through the case point by point and painted a cogent, compelling argument for removal, all we've heard from Republicans is a wandering cherry pick of talking points. They have not managed to pull together anything resembling a real defense. It's mind boggling.

[BumRushDaShow]

98. They were overwhelmed by what the House Managers put together

under such a tight deadline.

And so all they could do was try to cobble together segments on CT, Biden sliming, "burden sharing", and "no quid pro quo because the criminal said it right outta his mouth!!111!!! "NO QUID PRO QUO!!!111!!!!!"

[crickets]

99. It shows. Bigly. nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

90. He seems really distressed about Bob Mueller. Time to call for medics for Sucky?

[SamKnause]

94. If Jay is trying to come off as a stupid fucker he is doing an excellent job.

[dpibel]

96. So here's the argument

In 2017 and 2018, when the Ukraine administration was patently corrupt, there was no problem with aid.

But, once a reformer was elected, well, guys! The alarms went off. We had to wait and see if this guy was the real deal.

See how that works?

Yeah. That's the ticket!

[crickets]

97. They're trying to defend Trump's actions as concern

that the US was footing the bill for Ukraine and boohoo that we were giving so much. Why isn't Europe helping?

1. Get over it, skinflint. Congress has power of the purse and they released the funds.

2. Europe was also pitching in plenty. It's no one's fault but your own that you didn't know.

[elleng]

100. I arrived 40 minutes late; sounds like I missed NOTHING!

[BumRushDaShow]

101. ...

[El Supremo]

106. + 1 Unpublished Manuscript!

[BumRushDaShow]

102. ****LIVE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL 1/28/20 THREAD 2**** UP

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212920792

[crickets]

103. Just outright calling Bolton a liar is not good optics at this point.

So many of the Trump admin have been shown to be liars, repeatedly and recently, but Bolton (smarmy as he is) is not one of them. Trying to claim the manuscript is inadmissable as evidence: okay, so have the person who wrote it testify about it.

Bolton has them terrified, and "nuh-uh!" isn't going to make his information bombshell go away.