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I think it's time to stop blaming Russia (Original Post) malaise Feb 2020 OP
I blame them all, and will continue to do so. apcalc Feb 2020 #1
Be sure to ask for a paper ballot. It is one thing that actually helped Iowa. 33taw Feb 2020 #2
Prior to now, paper meant absentee in PA. NO PAPER TRAIL, TOTALLY ELECTRONIC. apcalc Feb 2020 #34
I have to ask in my precinct. 33taw Feb 2020 #37
please do, read about it ahead of Time. apcalc Feb 2020 #41
I am in a tiny precinct. There are 200 voters. I won't use the optical machines. 33taw Feb 2020 #47
I think the paper has to done before, as in mail in or absentee. apcalc Feb 2020 #49
It probably depends on the state. In Wi it can be same day. In CO it was mail in. 33taw Feb 2020 #50
I am referring to PA only. apcalc Feb 2020 #62
no no no no no no no optical scanners!! Grasswire2 Feb 2020 #61
Completely agree!!! 33taw Feb 2020 #63
They're not mutually exclusive. TwilightZone Feb 2020 #3
There's no reason to let any guilty party off the hook. BKDem Feb 2020 #4
We know that but his base and independents need to hear malaise Feb 2020 #5
His base doesn't care. TwilightZone Feb 2020 #6
Ignore the base - speak to everyone else malaise Feb 2020 #9
I do ignore the base. TwilightZone Feb 2020 #10
Why? THEY ATTACKED OUR COUNTRY AND WILL DO SO AGAIN. VOX Feb 2020 #7
He's part of it malaise Feb 2020 #8
You think Putin regards himself as an equal to Trump? VOX Feb 2020 #12
And the ReTHUG controlled Senate? malaise Feb 2020 #13
There's nothing to argue about here. Putin is the pool cue, 45 the cue ball, R's are the billiards. VOX Feb 2020 #18
He regards himself far superior to Trump. And he is. apcalc Feb 2020 #26
I wondered about Iowa too. spanone Feb 2020 #11
From the night it happened malaise Feb 2020 #15
☮️ spanone Feb 2020 #23
They're both are guilty. rockfordfile Feb 2020 #14
Trump is President because of low quality, stupid Americans. Period. nt Progressive Jones Feb 2020 #16
I disagree malaise Feb 2020 #17
you are right edhopper Feb 2020 #20
Of course they stole it. It's the GOP. But there's more. Progressive Jones Feb 2020 #21
Yes they did. Both pre-election polls, and exit polls in PA on Election Day were both unmatched wit apcalc Feb 2020 #29
And their ability to be persuaded by Russian and other propaganda, their inability to discern truth. apcalc Feb 2020 #27
A pox on all their houses. greatauntoftriplets Feb 2020 #19
Schumer gets it - expose the ReTHUGs - they are a major part of this malaise Feb 2020 #24
Thanks for posting that. greatauntoftriplets Feb 2020 #25
I blame the voters who gave him enough votes edhopper Feb 2020 #22
no. they have a share in this shit show with or without republican support. Kurt V. Feb 2020 #28
Blame commercialism and a gullible American public underpants Feb 2020 #30
Interesting. Could we also blame the Israelis for meddling? Every foreign and local entity erronis Feb 2020 #31
Great post and here is the most important part malaise Feb 2020 #33
They absolutely threw Iowa for a loop. Initech Feb 2020 #32
Ignorant white wing voters. They know the truth, but don't care. Hoyt Feb 2020 #35
Add ReTHUG leadership and billionaire donors malaise Feb 2020 #36
I agree. Making about Russia allows Republicans and our own right wing oligarchs to avoid the jalan48 Feb 2020 #38
Precisely malaise Feb 2020 #43
No way shanti Feb 2020 #39
The Democratic Party can band together at any time gembaby1 Feb 2020 #40
I WILL FUCKING NEVER STOP BLAMING RUSSIA AZ8theist Feb 2020 #42
Good for you gembaby1 Feb 2020 #44
Don't you mean OUR candidates? IndianaDave Feb 2020 #46
I'm Canadian gembaby1 Feb 2020 #48
Well, Canadians are definitely welcome to chime in! IndianaDave Feb 2020 #54
Thank you for understanding and your sweet reply gembaby1 Feb 2020 #59
You're most welcome! IndianaDave Feb 2020 #65
You don't think the Trump machine has ammo with or without the candidates bringing it? Main emmaverybo Feb 2020 #52
This election Nature Man Feb 2020 #56
No, the Democratic Party needs to punch back by... WyattKansas Feb 2020 #45
Not only that they are doing domestic election interference live love laugh Feb 2020 #51
Russia is still active and supporting trump Gothmog Feb 2020 #53
Russia could not do this without complicit ReTHUGs malaise Feb 2020 #55
It's time to start blaming the global oligarchic billionaire elite Nature Man Feb 2020 #57
Ding ding malaise Feb 2020 #58
Voter supression, Oldem Feb 2020 #60
Precisely malaise Feb 2020 #64
I think that being more vocal about Republicans' role is a good idea. Caliman73 Feb 2020 #66
Bernie Sanders never had any intention of informing the Public Gothmog Feb 2020 #67

apcalc

(4,465 posts)
1. I blame them all, and will continue to do so.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:28 PM
Feb 2020

2017 was stolen, hacked, propaganda and even candidates sympathetic to Russia.

I see the same , and with R’s not addressing election security, I see it all over again.

33taw

(2,447 posts)
2. Be sure to ask for a paper ballot. It is one thing that actually helped Iowa.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:31 PM
Feb 2020

I will never use electronic balloting.

apcalc

(4,465 posts)
41. please do, read about it ahead of Time.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:29 PM
Feb 2020

There should be optical scanners at voting sites with paper backup

Also, I believe you can now register, and/or vote online. Even ahead of time.

33taw

(2,447 posts)
47. I am in a tiny precinct. There are 200 voters. I won't use the optical machines.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:15 PM
Feb 2020

I use paper exclusively.

apcalc

(4,465 posts)
49. I think the paper has to done before, as in mail in or absentee.
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:02 AM
Feb 2020

Election day is scanner , pretty sure.

Grasswire2

(13,571 posts)
61. no no no no no no no optical scanners!!
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 02:46 PM
Feb 2020

We are specifically warned against them, as well as APPS and WIFI connections!!

The standard is this:

1. Hand marked paper ballots, VOTER VERIFIABLE.

2. Strong audit trail.

3. Strong ballot security.

4. NO APPS. NO WIFI TRANSMISSION. NO OPTICAL SCANNERS.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
5. We know that but his base and independents need to hear
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:50 PM
Feb 2020

that he and his ReTHUG goons are part of said election theft.

I heard a guest on Ari suggesting that it upsets the Con because it challenges his legitimacy. He does not give a shit about legitimacy. He only wants to win by any means necessary.

TwilightZone

(25,479 posts)
6. His base doesn't care.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:53 PM
Feb 2020

Does anyone really believe otherwise anymore? They support him *because* he does this shit, not in spite of it.

TwilightZone

(25,479 posts)
10. I do ignore the base.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:06 PM
Feb 2020

You're the one who brought it up -- "but his base"

My point was that they don't care so don't bother. The election will be about turnout on our side, including left-leaning Is.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
7. Why? THEY ATTACKED OUR COUNTRY AND WILL DO SO AGAIN.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:56 PM
Feb 2020

Trump is the result, he's Putin's useful idiot. Russian disinformation has brought us to this crisis point. It is a hostile foreign power that is actively involved in destroying democracy worldwide.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
8. He's part of it
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:59 PM
Feb 2020

not the result - They are on tape - they are all involved in everything including the coverup.
I think Putin pays ...

VOX

(22,976 posts)
12. You think Putin regards himself as an equal to Trump?
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:15 PM
Feb 2020

Trump is the very definition of "useful idiot." Putin holds the upper hand. Trump is subservient, because he can't win an election without Russian interference.

From Congressman Eric Swalwell's (D-CA) site:
https://swalwell.house.gov/issues/russia-2016-us-election-interference

On October 7, 2016, the seventeen agencies of our intelligence community concluded with high confidence that Russia was meddling in our elections through hacking, leaks, and the dissemination of fake news.

On January 6, 2017, the office of the Director of National Intelligence released a declassified report on Russia’s actions and intentions in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. The report concluded that:

These attacks were ordered by President Putin;
Russia’s goals were to undermine faith in our democracy, to harm Secretary Clinton’s chances of winning, and to help President Trump’s election chances; and
President Putin and the Russian Government favored President Trump.
In addition to covert intelligence operations that supplied a constant stream of material to WikiLeaks, the Russian government worked to achieve these goals by using government agencies, state-funded media outlets, and paid social media trolls. For example, Facebook has acknowledged that "it has become a battleground for governments seeking to manipulate public opinion in other countries." Using these tools, Russia launched a dangerous fake news campaign intended to make it difficult for Americans to tell the difference between accurate reporting and blatant lies about both presidential candidates and about our own country.

But the most disturbing finding: Russia intends to do this again.

Russia will use the lessons learned from their 2016 attack on our democracy to carry out future attacks on both our democracy and other sovereign nations worldwide. It's clear that President Putin intends to do this again. Republican Senator John McCain has warned that Russia will continue to use cyberattacks “as a part of Vladimir Putin’s ambition to regain Russian prominence and dominance in some parts of the world.” The American people cannot ignore Russia’s actions against us, because doing so will leave our democracy vulnerable to the next attack.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/11/why-does-trump-talk-about-putin-like-hes-his-boss.html

Why Does Trump Talk About Putin Like Putin’s His Boss?
New York Magazine
By Jonathan Chait, 11/13/2017
We have by now grown so inured to the sight of Donald Trump treating Vladimir Putin like a trustworthy source it was only moderately shocking when he dismissed his own country’s intelligence analysts as “political hacks” while refusing to consider the possibility that Russia’s dictator might have political interests of his own. Still, Trump made another comment in passing that deserves more attention. Speaking of Putin, and expressing his fear that continued investigation into Russian election interference would upset relations between the two countries, Trump said, “I think he is very insulted by it, which is not a good thing for our country.”

Consider how unusual a statement this is, especially coming from Trump. Trump is assuming that Putin is a sensitive soul who might be personally wounded by unflattering portrayals in the American media. He is further asserting that Putin’s emotional distress might cause him to lash out at the United States or harm its foreign-policy interests in some way. Trump is speaking to his country like a cowering mother warning her children not to upset their father.
<snip>

malaise

(269,157 posts)
13. And the ReTHUG controlled Senate?
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:19 PM
Feb 2020

What is their role in this?
None of this could happen without the Con or ReTHUGs

VOX

(22,976 posts)
18. There's nothing to argue about here. Putin is the pool cue, 45 the cue ball, R's are the billiards.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:27 PM
Feb 2020

They are all complicit. ALL. Putin, Trump, the Senate (where every Republican is guilty).

But I'll continue to blame Russia, as I blame Republicans for allowing Trump to run roughshod over our democratic republic -- just as Putin would have it.

Progressive Jones

(6,011 posts)
21. Of course they stole it. It's the GOP. But there's more.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:31 PM
Feb 2020

Some voters thought the idiot couldn't be elected, so they stayed home on Election Day.
Just my opinion, but non-voters suck.
Then there are those who thought the idiot was a good idea. There's the stupidity.

apcalc

(4,465 posts)
29. Yes they did. Both pre-election polls, and exit polls in PA on Election Day were both unmatched wit
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:48 PM
Feb 2020

With the final tally.

Made no sense. Stolen, votes were flipped, whatever.

greatauntoftriplets

(175,749 posts)
25. Thanks for posting that.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:43 PM
Feb 2020

I knew that something was going on with all those bills being blocked by the Grim Reaper. Speaker Pelosi is likely not surprised with this at all.

underpants

(182,877 posts)
30. Blame commercialism and a gullible American public
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:49 PM
Feb 2020

MSM won't dare mention this obvious point because they depend on ad revenue.

erronis

(15,328 posts)
31. Interesting. Could we also blame the Israelis for meddling? Every foreign and local entity
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:50 PM
Feb 2020

has an interest in changing our elections, our laws and rules, and how we execute them (or don't).

And the USofA has been meddling in other countries' interests since it was a self-declared independent country. Part of the territory, I guess.

But to your main point, the repuglicons are a particularly weak-spined, grifting group of leaches that will do anything for money (roubles OK!). This country won't survive if they are allowed to determine the laws and the executions.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
33. Great post and here is the most important part
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:51 PM
Feb 2020

But to your main point, the repuglicons are a particularly weak-spined, grifting group of leaches that will do anything for money (roubles OK!). This country won't survive if they are allowed to determine the laws and the executions.

Initech

(100,102 posts)
32. They absolutely threw Iowa for a loop.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:51 PM
Feb 2020

It's also time to pull the cord from 4chan, that site exists to do more harm than good.

jalan48

(13,883 posts)
38. I agree. Making about Russia allows Republicans and our own right wing oligarchs to avoid the
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:22 PM
Feb 2020

spotlight.

malaise

(269,157 posts)
43. Precisely
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:36 PM
Feb 2020

There are parallels here with the Hitler enablers in Britain and Western Europe.
No one is saying leave out the Russians - but the focus must be on the home grown treasonous scumbags.

shanti

(21,675 posts)
39. No way
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:25 PM
Feb 2020

They are in this totally. Putin is telling him who to hire and who to fire, and notice that many of them are in the intelligence community, where Putin is from. Oh, and they will NOT stop.

gembaby1

(253 posts)
40. The Democratic Party can band together at any time
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:26 PM
Feb 2020

Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Your problem is that you have a lot of spoiled and feckless voters who think that if their perfect candidate doesn’t get in and address their one issue, then screw the entire country and everyone in it.

AZ8theist

(5,493 posts)
42. I WILL FUCKING NEVER STOP BLAMING RUSSIA
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:30 PM
Feb 2020

THEY ARE OUR FUCKING ENEMY.

Why can't the Dems understand this???????????????????????

gembaby1

(253 posts)
44. Good for you
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:40 PM
Feb 2020

But if your candidates keep trying to destroy each other like they did in this past debate then they will end up with the weakest candidate going into the general. Trust me, giving Donald Trump all the ammunition to throw back into you guy’s face is not the way to go. Stop the infighting and concentrate on taking down the monster otherwise you will have at least four more years of this bullshit!

IndianaDave

(612 posts)
46. Don't you mean OUR candidates?
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:00 PM
Feb 2020

Are you a Democrat, a n independent, or -- perhaps -- a bot? Our candidates have a right to express themselves openly in a debate. It isn't always pretty, but it's always informative. We can deal with a few bumps and bruises. We will survive and thrive. However, we will not accept Russian interference or Republican complicity. Contribute to the process, please. We have excellent candidates. We expect them to disagree on some issues. But we will not abandon them because of some give and take. We're adults, and we can handle it.

gembaby1

(253 posts)
48. I'm Canadian
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:45 PM
Feb 2020

Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)

And I desperately want YOU guys to win. I’m sick of the Trump era we are ALL living in. He’s just not bad for you, he’s bad for your neighbours, your allies, and, in general, the entire planet. He has already proved to be a colossal danger to everyone.

He took out that Iranian general without one thought to the consequences and created a tit for tat scenario with a commercial airliner being blown out of the sky. By the way, the people that died on that flight were mostly Canadians. And before you blame the Iranians know that none of this had to happen without that creep deciding he had to blow up that general so he could change the news of his impeachment.

And you’re right, it isn’t pretty when you go after each other like that. In fact, it’s downright demoralizing and depressing. Stop tearing yourselves apart, unite, and take out that tangerine tyrant.

And yes, you have the right not to put up with Russian interference. However, they are doing this to everyone and if Trump is not drummed out of office, then you will never get your chance to make the Russians pay because you are the only ones capable of giving them a good spanking.

IndianaDave

(612 posts)
54. Well, Canadians are definitely welcome to chime in!
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 05:23 AM
Feb 2020

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and your support. I'm in full agreement that we need to enthusiastically and overwhelmingly remove Trump from office, and return to governing principles based on our Constitution and a sense of compassion. And we desperately need to reestablish our relationships with our friends and allies around the world, including Canada!

As an aside, a good friend and I visited Canada in the early 1990s, and it was a wonderful experience. The people were really friendly, and the country -- at least the eastern area we visited, and the only area about which I can comment -- was beautiful. I even got to use a little of the French I had studied in college. Anyhow, I have pleasant memories of Canada, and a very positive attitude toward your country. -- Dave

gembaby1

(253 posts)
59. Thank you for understanding and your sweet reply
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:05 AM
Feb 2020

I do get frustrated with this whole Trump thing and mouth off but it’s just that it terrifies me.

Anyway, thank you again.

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
52. You don't think the Trump machine has ammo with or without the candidates bringing it? Main
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:54 AM
Feb 2020

thing we need to do is winnow down eventually.

None of the hideous things primary rivals said about Trump stopped him. Voters are not that stupid as to listen to debate fight playbacks and decide to vote accordingly. Let’s just pick a strong
candidate who can best win the states we need by the widest margin. That means who can build those coalitions.

And let’s get a candidate who makes a real contrast to Trump.


Nature Man

(869 posts)
56. This election
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 06:57 AM
Feb 2020

cannot be about a candidate seeking to "make history" or "appealing to better angels."

The Democratic candidate has to get down and dirty and FIGHT.

We didn't join hands and sing "Kumbaya" when the Japanese Empire bombed Pearl Harbor, ALL Americans came together in the face of an existential threat. And FOUGHT.

Everything is on the line.

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
45. No, the Democratic Party needs to punch back by...
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:53 PM
Feb 2020

Making sure tRUMP and all Republicans are wrapped in the Soviet flag, so their voters will rebel against them.

Yes, keep repeating and showing it over and over, because it will sink in for those who were around during the Cold War... It will demoralize them. Remember when tRUMP thought Gorbachev came to see him and he got all giddy like a little school girl, who turned out to be an impersonator?

Creative computer people can do wonders by short circuiting their base by stamping that Soviet flag on all of them. They will also subconsciously think they are losers as well, since the Soviets lost the Cold War.

live love laugh

(13,129 posts)
51. Not only that they are doing domestic election interference
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 12:07 AM
Feb 2020

and mass voter suppression.

Russia. My. Ass.

Oldem

(833 posts)
60. Voter supression,
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:32 AM
Feb 2020

gerrymandering, and accepting--even courting--foreign interference in our elections.... I see it all as part of a continuum. The electorate in our country is becoming ever more diverse, and the threat to white supremacy is thus greater and greater with each election cycle. Repuglicans take this as license to do anything, anything at all, to maintain power. That includes getting in bed with Russians. In my view, that is traitorous. Their leader in the Senate is not called Moscow Mitch for nothing.

Another reason I agree with the OP is that we expect the Russians to take every opportunity to undermine us: they are our enemies. But we have a right to expect Repuglicans--who are, after all, Americans--to help defend us against our enemies. Instead, they betray us. Again, they are traitors.

Caliman73

(11,744 posts)
66. I think that being more vocal about Republicans' role is a good idea.
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 05:35 PM
Feb 2020

I would not say that it is time to stop blaming Russia. They are adversaries who want to enhance their power by diminishing ours. I do think that Republicans have been given a pass with all of the shouting about Russia.

As another poster said, other countries, including people that are our allies, also try to influence the elections to further their interests and the US has a horrible record of interfering in other countries to further our own. The Republicans have a particularly bad record of conspiring with foreign countries to influence elections. From Nixon in 1968 with the Vietnamese, to Reagan in 1980 with the Iranians. This is not a new pattern. Russia is the latest country that found fertile ground for treason in the Republican party.

I 100% agree that this issue should be WAY more visible. Russia is not our friend and we need to focus on their interference but they would have a much harder time doing so if they did not have wiling partners in the Republican Party.

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