General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI think it's time to stop blaming Russia
Blame the Con and ReTHUGS - they can stop it anytime they want.
They're fucking with the Democratic Party primaries. Iowa needs a relook.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)2017 was stolen, hacked, propaganda and even candidates sympathetic to Russia.
I see the same , and with Rs not addressing election security, I see it all over again.
33taw
(2,447 posts)I will never use electronic balloting.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)Hack city...
33taw
(2,447 posts)apcalc
(4,465 posts)There should be optical scanners at voting sites with paper backup
Also, I believe you can now register, and/or vote online. Even ahead of time.
33taw
(2,447 posts)I use paper exclusively.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)Election day is scanner , pretty sure.
33taw
(2,447 posts)apcalc
(4,465 posts)Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)We are specifically warned against them, as well as APPS and WIFI connections!!
The standard is this:
1. Hand marked paper ballots, VOTER VERIFIABLE.
2. Strong audit trail.
3. Strong ballot security.
4. NO APPS. NO WIFI TRANSMISSION. NO OPTICAL SCANNERS.
33taw
(2,447 posts)TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)There's enough blame to go around, and all of it is warranted.
BKDem
(1,733 posts)And especially not Putin.
malaise
(269,157 posts)that he and his ReTHUG goons are part of said election theft.
I heard a guest on Ari suggesting that it upsets the Con because it challenges his legitimacy. He does not give a shit about legitimacy. He only wants to win by any means necessary.
TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)Does anyone really believe otherwise anymore? They support him *because* he does this shit, not in spite of it.
malaise
(269,157 posts)It is important for people to hear that they are all involved
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-majority-leader-to-colleagues-in-2016-i-think-putin-pays-trump/2017/05/17/515f6f8a-3aff-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html
TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)You're the one who brought it up -- "but his base"
My point was that they don't care so don't bother. The election will be about turnout on our side, including left-leaning Is.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Trump is the result, he's Putin's useful idiot. Russian disinformation has brought us to this crisis point. It is a hostile foreign power that is actively involved in destroying democracy worldwide.
malaise
(269,157 posts)not the result - They are on tape - they are all involved in everything including the coverup.
I think Putin pays ...
VOX
(22,976 posts)Trump is the very definition of "useful idiot." Putin holds the upper hand. Trump is subservient, because he can't win an election without Russian interference.
From Congressman Eric Swalwell's (D-CA) site:
https://swalwell.house.gov/issues/russia-2016-us-election-interference
On October 7, 2016, the seventeen agencies of our intelligence community concluded with high confidence that Russia was meddling in our elections through hacking, leaks, and the dissemination of fake news.
On January 6, 2017, the office of the Director of National Intelligence released a declassified report on Russias actions and intentions in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. The report concluded that:
These attacks were ordered by President Putin;
Russias goals were to undermine faith in our democracy, to harm Secretary Clintons chances of winning, and to help President Trumps election chances; and
President Putin and the Russian Government favored President Trump.
In addition to covert intelligence operations that supplied a constant stream of material to WikiLeaks, the Russian government worked to achieve these goals by using government agencies, state-funded media outlets, and paid social media trolls. For example, Facebook has acknowledged that "it has become a battleground for governments seeking to manipulate public opinion in other countries." Using these tools, Russia launched a dangerous fake news campaign intended to make it difficult for Americans to tell the difference between accurate reporting and blatant lies about both presidential candidates and about our own country.
But the most disturbing finding: Russia intends to do this again.
Russia will use the lessons learned from their 2016 attack on our democracy to carry out future attacks on both our democracy and other sovereign nations worldwide. It's clear that President Putin intends to do this again. Republican Senator John McCain has warned that Russia will continue to use cyberattacks as a part of Vladimir Putins ambition to regain Russian prominence and dominance in some parts of the world. The American people cannot ignore Russias actions against us, because doing so will leave our democracy vulnerable to the next attack.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/11/why-does-trump-talk-about-putin-like-hes-his-boss.html
Why Does Trump Talk About Putin Like Putins His Boss?
New York Magazine
By Jonathan Chait, 11/13/2017
We have by now grown so inured to the sight of Donald Trump treating Vladimir Putin like a trustworthy source it was only moderately shocking when he dismissed his own countrys intelligence analysts as political hacks while refusing to consider the possibility that Russias dictator might have political interests of his own. Still, Trump made another comment in passing that deserves more attention. Speaking of Putin, and expressing his fear that continued investigation into Russian election interference would upset relations between the two countries, Trump said, I think he is very insulted by it, which is not a good thing for our country.
Consider how unusual a statement this is, especially coming from Trump. Trump is assuming that Putin is a sensitive soul who might be personally wounded by unflattering portrayals in the American media. He is further asserting that Putins emotional distress might cause him to lash out at the United States or harm its foreign-policy interests in some way. Trump is speaking to his country like a cowering mother warning her children not to upset their father.
<snip>
malaise
(269,157 posts)What is their role in this?
None of this could happen without the Con or ReTHUGs
VOX
(22,976 posts)They are all complicit. ALL. Putin, Trump, the Senate (where every Republican is guilty).
But I'll continue to blame Russia, as I blame Republicans for allowing Trump to run roughshod over our democratic republic -- just as Putin would have it.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)spanone
(135,873 posts)I truly fear for the integrity of our democracy
malaise
(269,157 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)They stole it - history will absolve me because truth will out.
edhopper
(33,615 posts)but too many Americans still voted for him.
Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)Some voters thought the idiot couldn't be elected, so they stayed home on Election Day.
Just my opinion, but non-voters suck.
Then there are those who thought the idiot was a good idea. There's the stupidity.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)With the final tally.
Made no sense. Stolen, votes were flipped, whatever.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,749 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,749 posts)I knew that something was going on with all those bills being blocked by the Grim Reaper. Speaker Pelosi is likely not surprised with this at all.
edhopper
(33,615 posts)For him to steal the election.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)just more so with.
underpants
(182,877 posts)MSM won't dare mention this obvious point because they depend on ad revenue.
erronis
(15,328 posts)has an interest in changing our elections, our laws and rules, and how we execute them (or don't).
And the USofA has been meddling in other countries' interests since it was a self-declared independent country. Part of the territory, I guess.
But to your main point, the repuglicons are a particularly weak-spined, grifting group of leaches that will do anything for money (roubles OK!). This country won't survive if they are allowed to determine the laws and the executions.
malaise
(269,157 posts)But to your main point, the repuglicons are a particularly weak-spined, grifting group of leaches that will do anything for money (roubles OK!). This country won't survive if they are allowed to determine the laws and the executions.
Initech
(100,102 posts)It's also time to pull the cord from 4chan, that site exists to do more harm than good.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)spotlight.
malaise
(269,157 posts)There are parallels here with the Hitler enablers in Britain and Western Europe.
No one is saying leave out the Russians - but the focus must be on the home grown treasonous scumbags.
shanti
(21,675 posts)They are in this totally. Putin is telling him who to hire and who to fire, and notice that many of them are in the intelligence community, where Putin is from. Oh, and they will NOT stop.
gembaby1
(253 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:31 AM - Edit history (1)
Your problem is that you have a lot of spoiled and feckless voters who think that if their perfect candidate doesnt get in and address their one issue, then screw the entire country and everyone in it.
AZ8theist
(5,493 posts)THEY ARE OUR FUCKING ENEMY.
Why can't the Dems understand this???????????????????????
gembaby1
(253 posts)But if your candidates keep trying to destroy each other like they did in this past debate then they will end up with the weakest candidate going into the general. Trust me, giving Donald Trump all the ammunition to throw back into you guys face is not the way to go. Stop the infighting and concentrate on taking down the monster otherwise you will have at least four more years of this bullshit!
IndianaDave
(612 posts)Are you a Democrat, a n independent, or -- perhaps -- a bot? Our candidates have a right to express themselves openly in a debate. It isn't always pretty, but it's always informative. We can deal with a few bumps and bruises. We will survive and thrive. However, we will not accept Russian interference or Republican complicity. Contribute to the process, please. We have excellent candidates. We expect them to disagree on some issues. But we will not abandon them because of some give and take. We're adults, and we can handle it.
gembaby1
(253 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)
And I desperately want YOU guys to win. Im sick of the Trump era we are ALL living in. Hes just not bad for you, hes bad for your neighbours, your allies, and, in general, the entire planet. He has already proved to be a colossal danger to everyone.
He took out that Iranian general without one thought to the consequences and created a tit for tat scenario with a commercial airliner being blown out of the sky. By the way, the people that died on that flight were mostly Canadians. And before you blame the Iranians know that none of this had to happen without that creep deciding he had to blow up that general so he could change the news of his impeachment.
And youre right, it isnt pretty when you go after each other like that. In fact, its downright demoralizing and depressing. Stop tearing yourselves apart, unite, and take out that tangerine tyrant.
And yes, you have the right not to put up with Russian interference. However, they are doing this to everyone and if Trump is not drummed out of office, then you will never get your chance to make the Russians pay because you are the only ones capable of giving them a good spanking.
IndianaDave
(612 posts)Thanks for your thoughtful reply and your support. I'm in full agreement that we need to enthusiastically and overwhelmingly remove Trump from office, and return to governing principles based on our Constitution and a sense of compassion. And we desperately need to reestablish our relationships with our friends and allies around the world, including Canada!
As an aside, a good friend and I visited Canada in the early 1990s, and it was a wonderful experience. The people were really friendly, and the country -- at least the eastern area we visited, and the only area about which I can comment -- was beautiful. I even got to use a little of the French I had studied in college. Anyhow, I have pleasant memories of Canada, and a very positive attitude toward your country. -- Dave
gembaby1
(253 posts)I do get frustrated with this whole Trump thing and mouth off but its just that it terrifies me.
Anyway, thank you again.
IndianaDave
(612 posts)And I appreciate your response, gembaby1. Have a pleasant day!
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)thing we need to do is winnow down eventually.
None of the hideous things primary rivals said about Trump stopped him. Voters are not that stupid as to listen to debate fight playbacks and decide to vote accordingly. Lets just pick a strong
candidate who can best win the states we need by the widest margin. That means who can build those coalitions.
And lets get a candidate who makes a real contrast to Trump.
Nature Man
(869 posts)cannot be about a candidate seeking to "make history" or "appealing to better angels."
The Democratic candidate has to get down and dirty and FIGHT.
We didn't join hands and sing "Kumbaya" when the Japanese Empire bombed Pearl Harbor, ALL Americans came together in the face of an existential threat. And FOUGHT.
Everything is on the line.
WyattKansas
(1,648 posts)Making sure tRUMP and all Republicans are wrapped in the Soviet flag, so their voters will rebel against them.
Yes, keep repeating and showing it over and over, because it will sink in for those who were around during the Cold War... It will demoralize them. Remember when tRUMP thought Gorbachev came to see him and he got all giddy like a little school girl, who turned out to be an impersonator?
Creative computer people can do wonders by short circuiting their base by stamping that Soviet flag on all of them. They will also subconsciously think they are losers as well, since the Soviets lost the Cold War.
live love laugh
(13,129 posts)and mass voter suppression.
Russia. My. Ass.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)Call them out
Nature Man
(869 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)along with the folks who wrote the rules that allow them to thrive with impunity
Oldem
(833 posts)gerrymandering, and accepting--even courting--foreign interference in our elections.... I see it all as part of a continuum. The electorate in our country is becoming ever more diverse, and the threat to white supremacy is thus greater and greater with each election cycle. Repuglicans take this as license to do anything, anything at all, to maintain power. That includes getting in bed with Russians. In my view, that is traitorous. Their leader in the Senate is not called Moscow Mitch for nothing.
Another reason I agree with the OP is that we expect the Russians to take every opportunity to undermine us: they are our enemies. But we have a right to expect Repuglicans--who are, after all, Americans--to help defend us against our enemies. Instead, they betray us. Again, they are traitors.
malaise
(269,157 posts)They are traitors
Caliman73
(11,744 posts)I would not say that it is time to stop blaming Russia. They are adversaries who want to enhance their power by diminishing ours. I do think that Republicans have been given a pass with all of the shouting about Russia.
As another poster said, other countries, including people that are our allies, also try to influence the elections to further their interests and the US has a horrible record of interfering in other countries to further our own. The Republicans have a particularly bad record of conspiring with foreign countries to influence elections. From Nixon in 1968 with the Vietnamese, to Reagan in 1980 with the Iranians. This is not a new pattern. Russia is the latest country that found fertile ground for treason in the Republican party.
I 100% agree that this issue should be WAY more visible. Russia is not our friend and we need to focus on their interference but they would have a much harder time doing so if they did not have wiling partners in the Republican Party.