Just did my taxes, and I am getting absolutely crushed. Just crushed.

[Yavin4]

Fuck Trump and the Republicans.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. We will also.

How are them Trump Tax cuts working put for you?

[Yavin4]

2. I was getting huge tax refunds under Obama

because I could write off my state and local taxes.

[rzemanfl]

33. Probably every President before him as well. n/t

[gratuitous]

3. At least your 409 is doing well, right?

I wonder if Trump can possibly lose any support among voters if the stock market doesn't recover and people get hammered on their taxes? Nah! As long as Shel Adelson is doing okay, America is doing just fine!

[Liberal In Texas]

8. 409?

She's real fine, my 4-0-9
She's real fine, my 4-0-9
My 4--0--9
Well, I saved my pennies and I saved my dimes (Giddyup, giddyup, 4-0-9)
For I knew there would be a time (Giddyup, giddyup, 4-0-9)
When I would buy a brand new 4-0-9 (4-0-9, 4-0-9)
Giddyup, giddyup, giddyup, 4-0-9
Giddyup, 4-0-9
Giddyup, 4-0-9
Giddyup, 4-0
Nothing can catch her, nothing can touch my 4-0-9, 4-0-9

[gratuitous]

9. Are you saying the Emperor Trump is wrong?!

Because the Emperor Trump is NEVER wrong:

https://www.newschannel6now.com/2020/01/09/how-are-your-ks-doing-trump-tweets/

But for some reason, the tweet has been deleted in violation of the Presidential Records Act. But that's not wrong, either, so stop saying that!

[gay texan]

10. 4 speed, dual quads, posi-traction n/t

[gibraltar72]

11. You're old.

[MyOwnPeace]

32. HA!!!

Heard the song in my mind instantly when I saw that post!

[guillaumeb]

52. My 1967 Fairlane with a 428 beat a Corvette with a 409.

I still remember the look on the Corvette owner's face as he asked to look under the hood of my car.

I had kept the 289 badges on the fenders.

[lagomorph777]

57. You dog.

[cojoel]

23. My 409 "cleaned up"

[|

[ooky]

4. I've yet to talk to a magat who hasn't told me "I think

I'm benefitting from the tax cut".

God these people are stupid.

[Aristus]

24. Just as with Big Brother reducing Oceania's chocolate ration, and claiming to have raised it,

Trump will tell them they're actually paying less on their taxes, and they will believe him...

[brewens]

5. My Trumper brother-in-law told me this time last year, people were whining because the

withholding changed and they didn't make proper adjustments. That they got a tax cut, spent it all, then were upset that they didn't get a big refund. I called bullshit. People understood they had a little bit more take home pay, but expected the tax cut to make up for it. They never got a tax cut was the problem, or not enough to make any difference. Now it's uglier this year. This shit should really hurt the republicans.

[Wuddles440]

6. Same for me!

My effective rate has increased almost 3% since the tax "cut". The media focuses on the doubling of the Standard Deduction but ignores the impact that it has on filers that historically itemized and the elimination of the Personal Exemptions.

[dugog55]

7. The only way to really see how you are getting screwed is

to dig out your 2016 tax forms and fill it out using 2019 figures. That will tell you exactly how much you are losing, and/or gaining.

[PJMcK]

51. That's a great point!

Some journalist should go into "Trump country" and perform that exercise for some of Trump's supporters.

It could be epic TV journalism.

[MineralMan]

12. Many years ago, my wife and I had a very good year that almost bankrupted us.

We got a lucrative writing contract with Intel, earned too much and paid in too little on our estimated tax payments. We ended up having to refinance our paid-for house to pay our IRS taxes that year.

So, we did some calculations, thinking ahead. We discovered that, if we controlled our level of income, we could do just fine and minimize our income takes. We're both freelance writers and can adjust our income to some degree. Since then, we have walked a fine line between covering all of our living expenses without owning the IRS too much.

These days, we're both collecting Social Security, and find that we can lower our work income to the point that we own zero dollars to the IRS in income taxes and also zero to the state we live in. We still have to pay the self-employment tax, though, but that keeps our SS being adjusted upward a little every year.

It's a delicate balance, but it's possible to do if you have untaxed income coming in. So, we live a little simper that we once did, but that's OK. The only real costly thing left is my wife's ACA insurance premium, but she goes on Medicare a year from now and will have an Advantage plan that has a very low premium and very low co-pays. I've been on Medicare for almost 10 years, now.
v

[Yavin4]

13. I thought that you couldn't work and draw SS at the same time?

If so, is there some kind of income limit?

[mnhtnbb]

15. See the rules

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/whileworking.html

[MineralMan]

18. If you start getting Social Security at age 62, there is a limit to your

earnings. Right now, in 2020, it's $18,440 per year. If you earn more they cut your social security $1 for every $2 you earn each month over that limit. Then, when you reach full retirement age, there is no such limit to your earnings. However, if you earn more than a certain amount, part of your your Social Security payments are subject to income tax. We have always managed to stay under those income levels. For my wife, she will reach full retirement age at 66.5 years of age. it was 66 for me. Your Social Security payments are not included in your income from work.

Basically, because we had cut back our earned income to avoid much taxation before, it was very easy to adjust to the SS income limits until full retirement age, and then to limit earned income to avoid taxation of the social security. You do have to know pretty accurately how much you need per year to maintain your lifestyle, but that is a variable thing, depending on what you want.

If you maintain a relatively simple lifestyle and keep debt under control, you can work part-time and still maintain the total income you need without going over the thresholds. It's easier, of course, if you're self-employed, since you can control how much work you contract for.

To make that work, you have to do the math, and remain healthy enough to continue to work part-time. Since we're both freelance writers and have been for decades, it's fairly easy to balance things without continuing to work full-time, and the work is not physically challenging. The key, though, is in controlling your cost of living. But, that's not so hard, really, if you've been doing that all along.

[Yavin4]

19. Thanks for the info!

You're the best.

[Disaffected]

20. Not quite understanding this.

Are you saying you do better financially overall by earning LESS income? If so, that's a pretty weird tax system there.

[MineralMan]

22. Here's the thing. There is a an income threshold

where you owe no federal income tax at all. It's all based on the adjusted income on the bottom line of the 1040. It's around what the federal government considers to be the poverty line. Social security payments do not count as income. I don't know what that level is this year, although I have a very close idea.

Since both of us are receiving social security payments, we can easily get along without exceeding that threshold. Before that, we actually could also do that, and did most of the time. But now, we only have to work part-time, so it's much easier.

We do, of course, have to pay self-employment taxes on our working income. That's 15.3%, or has been so far. However, there are also federal tax credits, like the earned income credit, that are refundable, even if you owe no federal income taxes. That can reduce the amount of the self-employment tax. In addition, there is a refundable tax credit connected with the ACA, if you are obtaining insurance through a state ACA Exchange. That reduces that self-employment tax as well.

The State of Minnesota also has a property tax refund program that is based on homesteading your residence and that essentially refunds half of your property taxes. It also has income thresholds.

So, we live underneath all of those thresholds. For a couple, that's not too hard to do. Occasionally, we have to use a credit card on a temporary basis for one-time purchases, like a new snowblower or lawnmower. We also have a smallish car payment. We budget carefully for just about everything. Since we're self-employed, we can write off business expenses, like a new computer, cell phone or other items used in our businesses. But, we can take on additional projects to increase gross income when those expenditures are needed. There's more work available than we take.

We have money put away, as well, for emergency needs, along with a small inheritance from my wife's parents, who are no longer with us. We don't use that money at all, knowing that we might need it some day. My own parents are both 95 years old, and who will have an estate of some size.

We're lucky to be able to control costs. We have no offspring, and nobody who is financially dependent on us. We live near the poverty line, officially, but that's based on our earned income, not our Social Security payments, so we actually have more regular income than that. But we have to keep working. We like our work, though, so that's no big deal.

It's a fairly complicated set of calculations, really, and requires you to be able to adjust your earned income as needed. We're fortunate to be able to do that.

[Disaffected]

25. I'm Canadian

so I don't pretend to understand the nuances of such a system but it sounds like the more you earn, the less you earn, at least in some situations(?).

In Canada, greater income results in greater "claw back" of some gov't assistance payments but I know of no circumstances whereby one ends up a lesser net after-tax income (no matter how much you make). Otherwise seems to me to be quite a disincentive to work any harder.

[DFW]

29. I'm an American living in Germany on US-generated income. Worst of all worlds

The USA is one of only three countries in the world that does not recognize residence-based taxation. The other two are Eritrea and some other small African nation I forget. As the Double-Taxation treaty between the USA and Germany was written prior to the advent of certain kinds of pre-taxed distributions and the Roth IRA, between the USA and Germany, the two of them want 90% of both my income and my retirement money. Not 90% over a certain amount. 90% of ALL of it.

Sometimes, I wish I WERE Canadian. A Canadian friend of mine probably could have gotten a good word in for me--20 years ago, when his uncle was Prime Minister! He was THE finest foreign service office I have met of ANY country (including ours, I regret to say). He is retired from the foreign service, now. Too late.............

[Disaffected]

39. Americans living in Canada,

and there are a lot, have issues as well and sometimes unpleasant surprises when inheriting an estate or selling real property.

Chretien or Harper?

[DFW]

42. Chretien

Raymond is my friend's name. I never met his uncle.

[Disaffected]

43. That's unfortunate,

your friend's uncle was quite the character. One of the things I remember most was his frequent and public tongue-in-cheek referring to the federal New Democratic Party (NPD) as the "turd party" as they were third in the polling at the time and he had the inability to pronounce the "th" in "third".

[DFW]

44. I heard so too, and from a very reliable source

My dad was a member of the Washington print press, and his paper was from a small town on the St. Lawrence seaway in upstate NY. Therefore he always had to know both the Canadian Ambassador and meet the PM on occasion. I never met a sitting PM of Canada, but one perk of that relationship was a yearly invite the Canadian embassy had for its Washington friends every July 4th. It was a big cookout on the roof of the Canadian embassy, which had the second best view of the fireworks in all of Washington.

One trivia note, for a while, I played in a rock band in D.C. where one member was the son of the Canadian ambassador. This is back in 1967 when I was 15. We would sometimes have band practice at the Canadian embassy residence in Rock Creek Park, and have unlimited leftover filet mignon from some embassy reception the night before, and (of course) unlimited Canada Dry soft drinks. We took the name of our band from an an obscure book we had all read. People used to tell us, "Where did you come up with a nutty name like that for your band?" Three years later EVERYBODY knew the name of our band, but not because of us. The "obscure" book got made into a film: "A Clockwork Orange."

[Disaffected]

45. Interesting story,

thank you!

[DFW]

46. Here's another for you

In 1969 (or thereabouts), my dad took the family (minus me, as I was going to school in Spain) to some resort in Mexico over the Christmas break. At the hotel, he noticed Pierre Trudeau, then PM, lounging by the pool. My dad went up to him, introduced himself as a Washington-based journalist, said he recognized Trudeau, and promised to nonetheless not bother him the whole time he was there. Trudeau was both relieved and profoundly grateful.

Fast forward a few months later, when there was some big event on the St. Lawrence Seaway. Nixon was now US president. My dad knew him from way back when they were together on the 1959 trip to Russia and the so-called "Kitchen Debate" with Khrushchev. Always wanting to play the big man on campus, Nixon brought my dad up to Trudeau and said, "have you met the Prime Minister of Canada?" Recognizing my dad from the encounter in Mexico, Trudeau and he both laughed, and said, yes, as a matter of fact we have met. Disappointed, Nixon said, "oh," and slunk off to be important to someone else.

[Disaffected]

55. Pierre was another character alright

They seem to come from Quebec (and Newfoundland) for some reason

[DFW]

58. No explanation for that

Maybe something in the water?

[mnhtnbb]

14. I am definitely paying a higher tax rate as a widow

with primarily Social Security and pension income, than I did when my husband and I were filing jointly.

I don't own a house--no mortgage or property taxes to deduct--and my charitable donations to the symphony and the ballet did nothing for me. None of my premium costs for Medicare or the supplemental policy were enough to make deductions surpass the standard deduction.

I did take some capital gains on some stock sales, and that made my quarterly withholding inadequate. So now I owe the Feds about twice what my quarterly withholding was, and I owe the state as well.

Welcome to Republicanism, where the middle class is screwed and the billionaires pay nothing.

[blm]

28. So true. Charities last year received 54billion less than in 2017.

Thank a Republican.

[DFW]

50. Since US citizens can only deduct up to $10,000 in charitable deductions

Most people who can afford to make charitable contributions of $10,000 are likely to be in (or close to) the top bracket, so with anything over that, the more they give, the more it costs them.

If you make $250,000 gross, then that leaves you, if you are paying 39.6%, with $151000 net (not exactly, of course: this is being simplified as most of us aren't H&R Block employees).

Make a charitable contribution of $10,000, and you get to deduct it off your gross income before taxes, and so you are left with $144,960 out of $240,000, so your $10,000 contribution really only cost you $6040 of your net pay. Your effective tax rate stays at 39.6%.

However, if you make another $10,000 in charitable contributions, you get no more deductions. You are then left with $134,960 out of $230,000, so your tax rate went up to 41.3217% Make another $10,000 in charitable contributions, you are left with $124,960 out of $220,000, and your tax rate is now 43.2%, The more non-deductiible charitable contributions you make, the more your tax rate goes up. The incentive to make such contributions dwindles rapidly. After the next $10,000, your tax rate is over 45%. Who pockets the difference? Trump's government, of course, and the likelihood of him spending it to rebuild Puerto Rico is about as great as Trump turning vegan and giving up golf for jai alai.

[Tink41]

38. No worries

You're not missing out on much w the mortgage/ property tax deductions. Right now as a homeowner w both my deduction is the same as someone living in their parents basement. And no I'm not envious. What I am is discouraged because the incentive for being a homeowner is gone.

[BigDemVoter]

16. I haven't done mine, but I was JUST telling my colleague that we are going to be

screwed. Luckily I'm not expecting anything other than to be clobbered.

[Kaleva]

17. I don't earn enough to pay income tax. State or federal.

One benefit from living at around the poverty line.

[Tripper11]

21. yup...we got tagged as well

tax cuts for the middle class my ass.

[MontanaMama]

26. We are self employed

and getting our asses handed to us this year. $11,000 federal tax bill above and beyond the estimated quarterlies we pay in. I was floored when our accountant gave us the news. I’ve paid more in federal income tax the last 3 years than I did the 5 years before that combined.

[mnhtnbb]

35. Ouch!

Our only hope is that a lot of middle class Republicans are seeing the same thing. Maybe they'll wake up. We can only hope, right?

[blm]

27. Same with our family

[onenote]

30. Moreso than last year?

Most of the changes in the tax law went into effect for the 2018 tax year.

[democrattotheend]

31. We did too

My husband had stock options that he has to pay a lot more in taxes on thanks to Trump. And we live in a blue state with high property taxes and just became homeowners, which we previously would have been able to fully deduct.

We do benefit from the changes to the AMT, but I don't really give Trump credit for that because there was bipartisan support for raising the caps for the AMT, which was crushing upper-middle income people rather than the ultrarich it was supposed to apply to. I think that if Obama had been presented with a bill containing just the changes to the AMT, he'd have signed it too.

[Johonny]

34. Yup, broke about even last year.

This year will be the sucks. Lost all my deductions.

[rufus dog]

36. High cost of living Blue state or Texas?

tRump is taking a double hit. People in the office are complaining about taxes and stock hits.

[Polybius]

37. I've gotten lucky

My tax return has been within $100 of what it’s been the last three years.

[JDC]

40. I did also. I paid more in taxes this year than last also.

F them is right.

[Amishman]

41. I benefited from the Trump cuts, my total tax obligation did drop

I'd still rather it hadn't passed for many reasons, not the least of which is knowing the extra money in my pay check means the national debt is ballooning

[cbdo2007]

60. Lol, me too. It's a tough position to be in...

hating Trump so much but literally getting thousands more due to my situation and his tax cuts, and just having to keep quiet on most of these threads by people who came out worse.

[hack89]

47. I am one of the lucky ones

My tax obligation dropped a little but most importantly my taxes got simplier and more predictable. Increasing the standard deduction means I no longer have to itemize which in turn makes caluculating annual withholding a breeze.

[Yavin4]

48. Do you live in a high tax state like I do?

I use to be able to write off my state and local taxes, and with my charitable deductions, I would get back a nice refund.

No more. I pay more now.

[hack89]

54. I live in Rhode Island so I think the answer is yes.

A big factor is that I also refinanced my mortgage to a 3% 15 year so my interest payments dropped a lot. That is why the bigger standard deduction was so benificial for me.

[PETRUS]

49. Something I was told just yesterday.

A very high income person I know had just completed their 2019 taxes, and out of curiosity decided to see what they would have been if nothing had changed in the tax code from just the previous year. He said he did so much better this time, it was embarrassing.

You might be interested in an OP I just posted: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213018994

[House of Roberts]

53. FWIW, I owed about $200 to the Feds last year,

which included an ACA fine of $75 for one month of no insurance.
This year with no fine, I will owe about $200 to the Feds. The state owes me about $200, so it's a neutral effect overall.

I used to get anywhere from $700 to $1000 refund from the Feds.

[jpljr77]

56. The SALT deduction cap is devastating this year.

It finally kicked in in full. $10,000 hard limit on all state and local taxes that are normally deductible. So in addition to state income tax, property taxes and any county/city tax.

Last year our SALT deduction was $15,500. This year, it's capped. It was enough to push us from a moderate refund to owing a moderate amount.

That may sound boring, but this will be a common experience across the country this year. The calculus conducted by Trump and his psycho enablers is that high-SALT states tend to be blue, so it won't matter electorally. I guess we'll see.

[DarthDem]

59. :( Sorry to hear this

Damn.

[Vinca]

61. We got royally screwed and had to pay $4,000. Double fuck Trump and the Republicans.

[Chainfire]

62. I shouldn't whine

We only had to pay in an extra $600.00. That will pay for 3/16 of an inch of the wall.