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Mon Mar 30, 2020, 10:53 AM

Without a vaccine, can we ever get back to "normal"?

Close social contact, no masks, etc?

We can flatten the curve, but I suspect the virus will continue to circulate. I see quicker reaction to viral outbreaks in the future, but I really can't see a way back to "normal" human interactions until a vaccine can be developed.

Speaking of which, will Covid-19 finally be the reality call for anti-vaxxers? Haven't heard them warning about the coming vaccine,,,

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Reply Without a vaccine, can we ever get back to "normal"? (Original post)
OAITW r.2.0 Mar 2020 OP
uponit7771 Mar 2020 #1
ck4829 Mar 2020 #4
OAITW r.2.0 Mar 2020 #6
JCMach1 Mar 2020 #9
OAITW r.2.0 Mar 2020 #12
JCMach1 Mar 2020 #20
uponit7771 Mar 2020 #15
JCMach1 Mar 2020 #16
uponit7771 Mar 2020 #22
KY_EnviroGuy Mar 2020 #50
bronxiteforever Mar 2020 #7
GreenPartyVoter Mar 2020 #2
DesertRat Mar 2020 #29
bearsfootball516 Mar 2020 #52
Dan Mar 2020 #53
bearsfootball516 Mar 2020 #54
LuckyCharms Mar 2020 #3
donco Mar 2020 #5
marybourg Mar 2020 #55
Aristus Mar 2020 #8
Initech Mar 2020 #35
ooky Mar 2020 #10
MineralMan Mar 2020 #11
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2020 #13
Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #24
Marrah_Goodman Mar 2020 #25
Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #31
MineralMan Mar 2020 #26
Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #30
MineralMan Mar 2020 #46
Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #65
GulfCoast66 Mar 2020 #61
Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #62
GulfCoast66 Mar 2020 #64
redstateblues Mar 2020 #36
LizBeth Mar 2020 #48
MineralMan Mar 2020 #57
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2020 #14
Quixote1818 Mar 2020 #17
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2020 #19
Quixote1818 Mar 2020 #58
DarthDem Mar 2020 #18
Igel Mar 2020 #37
Wounded Bear Mar 2020 #21
roamer65 Mar 2020 #23
DetlefK Mar 2020 #27
marybourg Mar 2020 #56
DesertRat Mar 2020 #28
Bleacher Creature Mar 2020 #33
redstateblues Mar 2020 #38
totodeinhere Mar 2020 #41
Moostache Mar 2020 #32
GaYellowDawg Mar 2020 #34
MoonlitKnight Mar 2020 #39
DesertRat Mar 2020 #43
totodeinhere Mar 2020 #40
DarthDem Mar 2020 #42
totodeinhere Mar 2020 #44
DarthDem Mar 2020 #47
totodeinhere Mar 2020 #60
ProfessorGAC Mar 2020 #45
redwitch Mar 2020 #63
LizBeth Mar 2020 #49
FarPoint Mar 2020 #51
customerserviceguy Mar 2020 #59

Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 10:54 AM

1. Yes, please look at South Korea (link) they're nearly back to normal

https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/03/29/south-korea-keeps-covid-19-at-bay-without-a-total-lockdown



That life in South Korea has not ground to a complete halt is mostly owing to an early and aggressive response to the covid-19 pandemic. The countryís disease-control authority approved the first test kit for the virus in early February, less than a week after the application was filed. By the time the number of cases began to rise a couple of weeks later, it had the capacity to test thousands of people a day and get results within a few hours from a network of labs across the country.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:03 AM

4. Sure, I mean whatever passes for "normal" in South Korea

You've got the Kim family to the north and every other power seeing you as a foothold. It'll be back to that.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:04 AM

6. What's the data say as to the state of COVID-19 infection rates, new cases, reoccuring cases?

I get that they reacted early with remarkable, coordinated effectiveness...but is the virus totally eradicated? Will the virus fade into a seasonal flu-shot type of virus?

Sadly, I think history is going to be brutally honest about the US leadership failures, dismantling the US pandemic crisis team, then wasted 3 months trying to politicize the epidemic and that will lead directly to the infection of millions and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:06 AM

9. Imperial College Report says 18 months...

Even if a bit shorter, we are in for a horrific grind and several infection/re-infection peaks...


No one wants to talk about that part of the model.

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #9)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:11 AM

12. "No one wants to talk about that part of the model."

That's what I am trying to game out....

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:31 AM

20. Short of a quick vaccine, or significant prophylaxis

1918 Pandemic is probably best model... Burn rate in 18-24 months if nothing comes.on medical.front with 40-80% of us catching it at one time or another...

Social distance and quarantine measures only save our medical system from meltdown ensuring more people can survive with better care of critical cases

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:18 AM

15. JH website has SK and China bottomed out on infection rate (link)

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:27 AM

16. If they fully open back up they will reinfect

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:41 AM

22. True, right now they're closed to all travelers from the outside but they're not locked down like we

... are

Over the past few days, it has introduced more draconian measures to curb the growing number of imported cases, including compulsory tests for arrivals from Europe and America. From April 1st, all travellers arriving from abroad will be obliged to undergo two weeks of quarantine either at home or in a government facility.


How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/26/821688981/how-south-korea-reigned-in-the-outbreak-without-shutting-everything-down

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 02:10 PM

50. From what I'm reading, it's too early to tell because....

there's not yet enough data on how most cultures and races will develop herd immunity. This virus is 'novel', so we're playing it by ear. There's no guarantee it will behave like other SARS viruses, although some experts think it will.

If we can't develop enough herd immunity to control it adequately enough to return to (mostly) normal, the damn thing will simply haunt us everyday until an effective vaccine is developed, tested and given to most people on the planet.

One of their worst fears is that mutations could appear before this one is under control, forcing them to play whack-a-mole for a while.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:04 AM

7. +1

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 10:59 AM

2. Eventually herd immunity will kick in. We bore horrific death tolls from epidemics in the past, but

life still went on. The thing is that in this day and age, we should be losing far fewer people, but this is the social Darwinism that results from RW policies and ďplanning.Ē

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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:16 PM

29. I hope so but

Weíll need 60% of the population to have recovered from it before the herd immunity kicks in.

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #29)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 02:13 PM

52. Realize that a lot more people have already had it and recovered than we know.

For every person who is tested and comes back positive, there are probably 5 that got it, had a mild case, didnít get tested and have gotten over it.

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Response to bearsfootball516 (Reply #52)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 02:21 PM

53. Do we have any factual information on that

Aside from anecdotal?

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Response to Dan (Reply #53)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 02:24 PM

54. I don't think so, just common sense.

But without testing every single person in the United States, thereís no way to know how many people have already had it and gotten over it that werenít tested.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:00 AM

3. If the virus does not mutate, herd immunity can get us back to normal, but

it's a hell of a way to get there. It would require a sufficient percentage of the population acquiring the virus, surviving it, and becoming immune.

This makes it difficult for the virus to find a suitable host, eventually starving it off. This is the way I understand it anyway. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

The obvious problem with this...many people will die.

I'm not sure what percentage of the population has to survive the virus in order for herd immunity to develop.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:03 AM

5. Look up

Asian flu. I had that in mid fifties when I was in the Marine Corps in San Diego. It was not fun.

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Response to donco (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 02:32 PM

55. And I didn't, although I rode a crowded NYC bus

to a crowded NYC high school. And both my father and brother had it, although my mother and I did not. Presumably I acquired enough immunity just bumping up against it, or something closely related to it, to resist it when hit with it full force. Thatís probably why I donít believe in over-the-top biohazard cleaning of mail and packages. I think we need to take common sense precautions, but we also need to let our immune systems get some peripheral exposure so they can do their jobs.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:05 AM

8. God, I hate the anti-vaxx movement with the heat of a thousand white-hot suns.

Ignorance is one thing; ignorance can be cured.

Deliberate, bone-headed, stubborn, obstinate stupidity is its own incurable disease...

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Response to Aristus (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:35 PM

35. Yeah it's the sheer stupidity of some people that is going to drag this out months.

Instead of weeks.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:08 AM

10. I don't think so. Personally, I am not going to go back to normal social

settings until I know I can't get this. I think a lot of people will act the same way.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:10 AM

11. When a vaccine is available, the same people who get the flu vaccine

will get vaccinated against this, too. The same people who don't probably won't.

The flu kills tens of thousands of people each year. Many of them weren't vaccinated. This coronavirus will do the same, no doubt.

As for me, I'll be one of the first in line for the COVID-19 vaccine, as soon as it's widely available.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:13 AM

13. Same!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:01 PM

24. Not necessarily.

The flu vaccine has not been more than 50% effective since around 2011. Some of us pay attention to things like that in deciding whether a specific vaccine is appropriate (in combination with other factors).

If the COVID 19 vaccine is similarly ineffective, you're probably correct (although there are currently stronger flattening the curve arguments for even a largely ineffective vaccine. If it is highly effective, you would likey see the population who gets most vacccines, but not the influenze vaccine, getting this vaccination.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #24)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:05 PM

25. even 50% is better then 0%

I think after this pandemic wake up call people will start to rethink the crazy opposition to vaccines.

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Response to Marrah_Goodman (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:20 PM

31. Crazy opposition - likely not.

People who just think vaccines are evil are likely to think the same about the COVID 19 vaccine.

But there is another group of people who thoughtfully evaulate the risks and benefits of each vaccine (both personal and societal) and get most, but not all vaccines. I am in that category. COVID 19 will not make me reevaulate my approach to vaccines - but I am likely to come to a different decision about COVID 19 than I do about the seasonal flu vaccine - both because it is targeting a specific virus (making it more likely to be effective against that virus) AND becuase the societal risk is far more disastrous (making me more willing to take the personal risks).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #24)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:06 PM

26. When it is first offered to the public, we will not know how effective it is,

actually. That won't be known until a large population is vaccinated.

The same was true of the Swine Flu vaccine. I got vaccinated with that, as well.

I'm happy to be vaccinated with a 50% effective vaccine. It provides me with better odds than not being vaccinated. So, as I said, those who take the flu vaccine will, no doubt take the COVID-19 vaccine. Those who don't take the flu vaccine probably won't.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #26)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:16 PM

30. We will have a better idea than the seasonal influenza.

Like the swine flu, it will be directed to a particular virus - which makes it inherently more likely to be effective against that virus.

That is the challenge with the seasonal flu - it is directed to a particular virus (which generally makes it highly effective against that virus) - BUT - different variants circulate every year and at the time they are making the vaccines they have to guess which ones will come around, and they are piss-poor at guessing.

I'm in the category that does not get the influenza vaccine - but I am likely to get the COVID 19 vaccine (unless by that time I've already had it). So you are speculating based on your stereotype of people who don't get the flu vaccine and making predictions based on your stereotype of how we think. I'm in a better position to provide information about what others who choose not to get the seasonal flu vaccines might actually react.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:30 PM

46. COVID-19 might well mutate into a somewhat different strain, too.

It's the nature of viruses. So, one can't be certain that the vaccine will be a perfect match.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #46)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 08:55 PM

65. It is more likely to be a good match.

Corona viruses, aside from the cold, seem to be more distinct (e.g. SARS, MERS, each of which was here as a distinct illness, rather than as rotating variations on an illness that keeps coming back year after year.)

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #24)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 08:39 PM

61. Totally different scenario. We have to guess on the flu vaccine

Because it is being developed in the summer before we know what strain will be the most prevalent.

This is not the flu. We know the genetics of the virus.

A vaccine for this virus will be very effective.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #61)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 08:49 PM

62. That is my expectation, as well

Which is why I don't believe behavior as to the flu vaccine is a good predictor.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #62)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 08:53 PM

64. Right. You would think by now we would learn.

This virus is not an influenza and there really no value of thinking that way.

Iím still reading everywhere even on DU that warm weather will kill it. Maybe. But itís been over 90 here in Florida for over 3 weeks.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:43 PM

36. That is when normal will return to my life

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:51 PM

48. I disagree.

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Response to LizBeth (Reply #48)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:49 PM

57. OK.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:15 AM

14. I think that they can

Once we get better testing procedures in place and esp. if we can find some effective treatments for COVID-19 that help make it less lethal and eases the strain off the healthcare system.

I seriously hope that the anti-vaxxers are dead as any kind of serious movement after all of this.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:28 AM

17. Yes, in a few months there will be quite a bit of herd immunity and then we will have lots of tests

Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2020, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)

They need to implement South Korea type testing at that point so we are not blind. Once it's not a threat to over running the hospitals things can get somewhat back to normal and then the vaccine will hopefully be the final chapter.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:31 AM

19. You mean, South Korea, right?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 04:31 PM

58. Lol. Yes. Nt

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:30 AM

18. Yes, I Believe So

South Korea, nicely pictured above, and Singapore nicely reacted instantaneously by testing everyone who wanted it and was symptomatic, then instituted contact tracing for new cases. Now, the issue here is that since the Republicans and corporatists have largely turned the U.S into a third world country in terms of health care and infrastructure, it'seems going to take us a while to get there. Decisively throwing Republicans out of power in November is critical.

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Response to DarthDem (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:45 PM

37. Somehow we tend to think that since they returned to normal

there's no chance of the virus spreading.

There's a large pool of susceptible humans out there. Ultimately either it's eradicated worldwide or it's herd immunity acquired through infection or vaccination that'll keep it in check.

The models go out 24 months. We only look at the first couple of months. The long-range models don't assume that if you didn't get it this time around you're forever immune.

In fact, "flattening the curve" just means that the infection will spread out over time. It barely moves the needle on the total number of cases under the curve. Think of a graph with a rectangle on it. It can be tall but narrow, or short and wide. Same area--same number of people affected. The only thing that'll help keep illnesses down is a vaccine; the thing that'll keep deaths down are things like antivirals.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:32 AM

21. Probably...

and I think at least that this should trim the edges of the anti-vaxxer crowd, much like it will trim the edges of the pro-Trump crowd.

Only the die-hards will remain.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 11:46 AM

23. Probably not.

There will be second wave in October-November.

Normalcy wonít be until 2023 or 2024 if we donít find an effective vaccine.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:10 PM

27. There will be a vaccine eventually. COVID-19 is in no way an extraordinary virus.

The problem with COVID-19 is that it's a brand-new mutation that is not covered by existing vaccines.

I expect that one or two years from now we will get mandatory COVID-19 shots like we get MMR shots or flu shots.

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Response to DetlefK (Reply #27)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 02:38 PM

56. The problem is that it's a brand new virus that our immune

systems are completely naive to, and therefore no one in the herd has acquired any any immunity to it. We do normally acquire immunity through day to day exposures, not just through vaccinations or full on infection.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:13 PM

28. I think we'll have effective treatment

Most likely before the vaccine weíll have a treatment which while not a cure, lessens the symptoms. Maybe in the same way that tamiflu works with influenza.
Hoping we have something like that available by the end of this year.

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #28)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:22 PM

33. This

If large numbers of people get this, but survive (and hopefully don't have as severe a range of symptoms), that helps to develop herd immunity.

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #28)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:46 PM

38. Tamiflu does not work that well across the board

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #28)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:03 PM

41. If it takes until the end of this year millions will have already died. n/t

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:22 PM

32. Well...coronaviruses as a class are usually mild respiratory illnesses...also known as "a cold".

In the USA, one of the prime drivers of antibiotic resistance is the insistence of coronavirus-infected patients to demand a prescription for antibiotics for themselves or for children, even when doing so is totally ineffectual and actually contributes to drug resistance in the end.

Seven coronaviruses are known to cause human disease, four of which are mild: viruses 229E, OC43, NL63 and HKU1. Three of the coronaviruses can have more serious outcomes in people, and those diseases are SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) which emerged in late 2002 and disappeared by 2004; MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome), which emerged in 2012 and remains in circulation in camels; and COVID-19, which emerged in December 2019 from China and a global effort is under way to contain its spread.

COVID-19 is caused by the coronavirus known as SARS-CoV-2.


https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/coronaviruses


There is no return to normalcy with these things...they are either out and replicating (infecting) or they are not. If they are out, then only those who are immune via freak occurrence in genetics or from previous exposure / vaccination are not going to be potential hosts in a subsequent outbreak...this is why I was curious as to whether or not SARS-CoV-2 is capable of reinfection for previously exposed people and whether or not they will become symptomatic again or if previous exposures prevents illness but not transmission? If that were true, then eventually everyone gets it and the outcome is a random thing for everyone when their number is up...but I am not a virologist or epidemiologist, so I don't know if that is a legitimate model or not...

I do know this - we can ALL die at any given moment of a million different things...heart attacks, strokes, aneurysms, other diseases, murder victim, car accident victim, random asteroid impact victims, climate change victims...the list is endless. It is a time to prevent the worst by staying isolated, but that time will end before it is "safe" for everyone without a doubt...the thing is, if we spend all of our time worrying about what may kill us, we forget to live while there is still sand in out hourglass...currently, the virus is a threat to millions directly and millions more by way of overwhelming our health care systems and hospitals for the other thing they do when not being over run by COVID-19 cases.

This too shall pass, but on the other end is not 100% absolution for all...just better odds for the rest of us. After an antibody test is readily available, the knowledge of your COVID-19 status will become a very interesting piece of medical information indeed.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:26 PM

34. WE WILL GET BACK TO NORMAL.

The vaccine will take some time because human trials take a long time. 12 months at the soonest. That being said, I would be very surprised if there aren't antivirals out much sooner than that.

I'll be very surprised if hydroxychloriquine and azithromycin pan out. The study from France that Trump pinned his hopes on has some substantial flaws in methodology and conclusions. However, the drug that has my hopes up is remdesivir; it has activity against RNA-dependent RNA polymerase and has been demonstrated to be effective against MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV in macaques. It was used in hundreds of human patients with Ebola under compassionate use guidelines, but safety and appropriate dosing for COVID-19 is unknown. I'm hoping that remdesivir will help with COVID-19 symptoms and outcomes the same way that Tamiflu can help with flu victims - a reduction in the severity of the disease and time of illness.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:57 PM

39. No. And we should not want to get back to normal.

Just look at the environmental benefits we have seen. We now know we can quickly turn back our environmental damage and the cost of doing so when we emerge from this.

We see the failure of limited sick leave and the financial damage that can result from NOT having it.

We see the failure of healthcare tied to employment. Itís bad enough to lose a job. Worse in a pandemic when the whole family is laid off. Compound that with the loss of healthcare.

Expensive weapons and high military spending are no use against a virus. Just as they were ineffective against determined terrorists and insurgents. But military hospitals, logistics and effective planning and leadership pay huge dividends.

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Response to MoonlitKnight (Reply #39)


Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:01 PM

40. Who knows if it will even be possible to develop a vaccine.

We won't know the answer to the question probably for months. And by then it may well have mutated to a form that is not receptive to whatever vaccine they come up with. Plus add to that indications that even in South Korea the virus
might be on a uptick and we can see that the whole world is in a world of hurt.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #40)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:21 PM

42. Unnecessarily pessimistic IMO

There's no reason to think a vaccine won't be effective. Treatments may come online before that. And the rise in cases in South Korea is so far very small, and they're using the contact tracing augmented by technology to combat it.

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Response to DarthDem (Reply #42)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:25 PM

44. Well excuse me for being pessimistic. Poeple are dropping like flies in New York and I am

pessimistic. Go figure.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:34 PM

47. No need to ask to be excused at all . . .

I understand your feelings completely; I truly do. I just recommend a little focus on the positive. I know how hard that is in the midst of this horrible ongoing tragedy.

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Response to DarthDem (Reply #47)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 07:08 PM

60. I would rather be realistic.

None of this false hope for me. Millions of people are losing their jobs and their livelihoods, and now we are hearing that this could go on for months. And then finally when the restrictions are lifted it could very well pop up again. Seeing this number of people dying before their time is no reason for any kind of optimism. We are truly screwed.

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Response to DarthDem (Reply #42)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:27 PM

45. +1

Some people watch too much Walking Dead.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #45)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 08:51 PM

63. I would have preferred a zombie apocalypse to this.

Honestly.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 01:54 PM

49. I also think in time, they will find different ways of treating this. I am hearing a couple things

now. Doctors in Germany are giving heavy dosage of Vit C and liking the results. Looking into malaria drug. I think more time given they will have a better handle on treatment, along with an inevitable vaccine.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 02:12 PM

51. My guess...

No...

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 05:05 PM

59. Nope

A vaccine is the only way to protect seniors who have been successful at avoiding getting the virus by staying at home.

As for the anti-vaxxers, it's either a wake-up call, or it's last call, at least for the older folks in their families.

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