A) This is a tragedy B) Let's be serious - this could send the election off the rails

[jsmirman]

First off, I am deeply saddened to wake up to the news of American civil servants losing their lives in the line of duty.

That hits very hard.

Secondly, I don't know that we can be blind to where this could go. This was an attack on American sovereignty.

Unless something has changed, my feel for the American populace is that we turn inward and favor insularity when we feel our sovereignty is threatened.

The Romney campaign is just the kind of irresponsible campaign to play this situation to the hilt - to light the powder keg with no thought for the consequences - they were already desperate, and they have also already shown that responsibility is of no concern to them.

I don't know that there is any getting around the idea that America's sovereign representatives could not be properly defended in the execution of their duties - that is not going to be good for any sitting President.

Among the worst elements of this - the most dangerous - is that were this to help lead to a Romney victory, a more bellicose and thoughtless foreign "policy" (we have already seen how dangerously thoughtless his approach to foreign policy is), we risk a return to the deadly, crippling mess of the Bush years, with damage to our ability to marshal our resources at home and deadly consequences for all Americans abroad.

That's scary.

There has to be some kind of tightrope-walking, perfectly nailed response by the Obama administration here - as I said, American sovereignty has been violated, and the people will want both reassurance and, I'm afraid, blood.

I don't think we can bury our heads on this - I would be surprised if this does not open a new volatile chapter in the public discussion of who should be the President in January of 2013.

[lame54]

1. It's definitely a game changer

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. How so?

[lame54]

33. It's red meat for the right to chew on...

and there gonna go after it with everything they've got

so far Romney has been defense

now they are going to use this to try to turn the tables

[still_one]

40. really? so I guess the Americans would like to invade Lybia and Egypt. That would show them how

tough we are. Since we may not have enough troops, maybe we can bomb the shit out of those countries. That should make us more well like in those areas.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, and this film was only the catalyst. Perhaps those willing to look at history of our involvement in those two countries through the years might get a fuller picture

Oh by the way, it isn't a game changer. Most Americans could give a damn about Lybia or Egypt. In fact I suggest most Americans would probably believe we should not have any involvement at all there.

[lame54]

45. What's with the lecture...

our elections are often determeined by sound bytes

and they are going to bite hard

it's all they've got

[still_one]

46. you are right, the additional verbosity was not called for. To your point. The attention span

of the American public is so brief, I would be surprised if this was a game changer. In fact, as cynical as I may be I think before the end of the week the public will be more interested in the new iPhone than the world events

[lame54]

53. Technology - is there anything you can't do...

I sure hope you are right

Romney has been on the defensive since day 1
He sees this as his opportunity to flip that

[still_one]

59. Who knows, but I do believe Obama will rise above the fray. He always does /nt

[lame54]

61. I'm not worried about Obama's actions...

it's the tv news watching public i'm worried about

[lightcameron]

57. Maybe. President Obama has the upper hand on foreign policy. All depends on how this

is handled.

[mucifer]

2. After the last 2 wars, I'm not sure so many want blood.

I sure don't.

[Biafran]

3. This is the point I was trying to make this morning

But I was labelled a RW nutter and had my posts hidden.

This thing happened to Jimmy Carter.

Obama must send a very strong message out to the world. Especially the muslim world in the middle east.

He can't afford not to react decisively on this one.

[mucifer]

9. ABC News had a tv program EVERY night discussing Carter's failings.

It was how the show "Nightline" got started. There were American hostages taken for 444 days. 444 days of media obsession without knowing if the hostages would ever return home.

Sorry, this is not the same.

[jsmirman]

13. Absolutely - this is not remotely the same

but I do still worry that it could have at least a temporary impact at a time when we were, as a country, moving toward grasping the need to reject Romney and his policies of greed, short-sightedness, foreign-policy callowness, dishonesty, and "plans" that aren't really plans.

That doesn't strike me as a good thing.

[oldhippydude]

60. this is much closer to Georgia-Russia 08... than Iran hostages 80..

the former blew over.. agreed they are not the same..still remembering the drip, drip, drip... not only nightline but every news cast counting the days..

[CTyankee]

30. He already has I am sure. Romney looks reckless and feckless and Obama looks

strong and steady. I see this as a real killer of the Romney Campaign which is already in a death spiral...

[Raven]

38. Absolutely agree! Obama will show his best...strong

and steady, thoughtful and deliberate. People don't want any more messes with the ME. The Romney campaign has already "gone off the rails" on this and people are going to see Mitt as a crazy guy waiving a gun around in a crowd. The Romney campaign has been nothing but feckless to date and there is no reason to think they are suddenly going to become statesmanlike.

[Nay]

63. Yeah, I agree. Romney is going to rapidly look like a total idiot. He doesn't understand

international relations, doesn't understand the history, and has REALLY stepped in the shit for coming right out and dissing Obama while there are 4 bodies on the ground in Libya. NO ONE, except for perhaps a few RW morons, like to hear Romney types make things worse than they already are. NO ONE wants another goddam war in the ME.

[WI_DEM]

48. This is not the same as Carter's Iranian hostage crisis.

[lightcameron]

58. Fucking ridiculous that your post got hidden. I read it and though I didn't agree

it was simply you stating an opinion of how to go forward on this crisis.

[luvspeas]

4. We need to start going after Romney...

for refusing to condemn this horrible movie. This is not what Americans are about and as long as he ignores it, he is only pertetuating the belief that America hates Muslims and their religion.

[C_U_L8R]

5. Rootin' Tootin' Romney is the one off the rails

He clearly demonstrated this morning that
he is shockingly ill-prepared and proved once again
that he is a complete amateur when it comes to
foreign policy. On top of that, he continues to lie
to the American people - and that alone, should
make him a pariah unqualified for any public office.

[jsmirman]

10. Romney is even more dangerous as a potential "leader" right now

without question.

The reality is that electing the most foreign policy unfit President/Vice-Presidential pair in recent memory to hold office at this complicated and perilous moment would be disastrous.

But we've seen that one thing a pair like that will specialize in is "bold," reckless, drum-beating inflammatory rhetoric that can play all too well to a populace rocked by the incidents of the last 24 hours.

My fear is that a nuanced, clearly thought out response to these attacks may not be what carries the day among our public.

[Surya Gayatri]

12. +1,000! The contrast is stark. Romney's shoot from the

hip verbiage and Obama's measured and balanced response. And the contrast will become even sharper as the crisis unfolds.

[JDPriestly]

21. Yes. Neither Romney nor Obama has all the facts yet.

Was this a government-condoned attack on our diplomatic missions?

Was this a matter of a few rebels in Egypt and Libya trying to push their countries to war in the Middle East?

Yet Romney has an opinion about how it should be handled.

Mr. Romney, in diplomacy, things move slowly. You get the facts first. You don't just accept superficial and obvious explanations. We are dealing either with rogue criminals in otherwise friendly states or with challenges to war or maybe something in between like factions within countries dickering for power with one of them trying to show how tough it is. (Sound familiar?)

We do not have the troops in place to invade Libya and Egypt while fighting in Afghanistan. Any human being would know that.

Romney has just revealed his ignorance about diplomacy and foreign policy. This is not a leveraged buyout. This is flesh-and-blood, destroy-the-world reality.

Obama will get information that is accurate as possible before taking any retaliatory action. And then he will weigh his choices carefully with the help of military and diplomatic and intelligence experts. Romney does not seem to have much ability or training in diplomacy.

Our first goal should be to move the governments in Egypt and Libya to condemn these actions. That way we can tell whether we support those governments or hold them responsible. The murders in Libya may actually have some relationship to the fact that certain Libyan officials are being tried for squandering money related to compensating victims in the Lockerbie attack. So the civil dissension and the clean-up of the former government in Libya could be behind these attacks -- acts to embarrass and isolate the current government? Or perhaps acts instigated by the current government to gain the loyalty of the Gadhafi hold-outs? These questions and lots more like them must be answered before the US can act. Until then, the wise diplomat tries to avoid further violence.

TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — Two former senior Libyan officials are on trial accused of squandering $2.7 billion in public money meant to compensate families of those killed in the Lockerbie bombing.

http://news.yahoo.com/former-libyan-officials-lockerbie-linked-trial-211300280.html

Also -- there are still Gadhafi hold-outs in Libya, so the people who killed our embassy personnel could be tied to them.

Libya's interim president has visited a mountain town controlled by fighters loyal to slain dictator Moammar Gadhafi in a reconciliation bid aimed at reintegrating it with the rest of the country, officials said.

Bani Walid, a town of some 100,000 residents some 150 kilometers (90 miles) southeast of Tripoli, was the last stronghold for Gadhafi loyalists, falling in October 2011 days after the leader was killed by revolutionary forces.

But Gadhafi loyalists rose up again in January and retook the town, expelling ex-rebels and dozens of their family members. It remains isolated from the rest of Libya, highlighting the weakness of a central government that lacks strong security forces to impose authority on the numerous local militia groups which dominate much of the country.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/libyan-officials-lockerbie-linked-trial-17203800#.UFCLDa7AIug

We have to wait until we have all the facts. Surely Romney can figure THAT out.

[treestar]

31. Exactly - this is no "game changer"

I do hate that trite phrase.

We are not such children that every thing that happens sways us one way or the other. We already know Rmoney is an irresponsible liar, and that Republicans like wars. People are weary of war and no way are they going to want war over this.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. What we have here is three groups of civilians in three countries,

acting independently and without authority from their respective governments. In other words, they made end runs around their political leaders and started an incident. The governments in Egypt and Libya can control their population as little as we can control Terry Jones and Sam Bacile. Taking advantage of the fact that they will escape punishment, all it takes is one party to try to "start something" with another country. Bacile and Jones could not wait for Obama and/or the Pentagon to go out and re-exert American military supremacy, so they did it themselves.

The pending question is now what?

[JDPriestly]

23. Actually, I don't think we know that for sure either. It is just too soon to reach

conclusions. The facts, all the facts, are not in yet.

[reformist2]

7. It won't be a game changer if Obama makes a powerful public condemnation - today.

Sadly, his top political priority should be silencing the idiots on the right. Or at least making it clear that he does not "sympathize" with muslim terrorists. It's sad that so many would accuse him of this, but sadly this is the world we live in today.

[lunatica]

20. Has it been officially established that Muslim terrorists are involved?

[leftynyc]

24. Well, in Egypt they

tore down the American flag and replaced it with a black Islamic flag so I'm ready to say a Muslim terrorist is responsible. Unless you've heard of a group who has condemned this and said someone else was responsible. Is that the case?

[lunatica]

29. I'm trying to figure out what's actually going on

I'm thinking about the hostage situation in Iran when Carter was President. It was not done by terrorists. It was done by fundamentalist religious followers of the Ayatollah after the US took the Sha in. God it was such a mess!

[KurtNYC]

8. Romney is still lying untrustable weird out of touch Romney

and Americans won't even remember this incident in 3 weeks, let alone 9 weeks.

[gollygee]

11. I think everyone can be glad "Mr. Diplomacy (sarcasm)" Romney isn't president right now

and we can imagine what would happen in the future when there's an international incident (which sadly happens) if he were president and predictably put his foot in his mouth.

[DinahMoeHum]

14. This is NOT a "game-changer", folks. Obama will win in November.

Bank on it.

Obama has already proven his mettle in a crisis. Any kind of response from him involving violence (ie. sending in SEALs or CIA) will be subtle and discreet, but deadly. Ask bin Laden.

Romney and the GOP, OTOH, are showing how emotionally incompetent they are in a time like this.

[blueknight]

15. sad for me to admit

but 90% of the fotcking idiots in this country could not care less about what happens there. this wont even be thought of again within a week

[Barack_America]

16. It should open that discussion.

But the fact still remains that, when we were attacked before, Bush raced us off into war with an unrelated country to satisfy his own political and economic agenda, and Obama got the guy responsible for it.

Romney will use this an excuse for war with Iran and Obama will advocate limiting action to those directly responsible.

[NightWatcher]

17. just relax, breathe. This is not a Game Changer. No one will remember this in a week

it's tragic for those involved, other than that it's an isolated incident in a crazy part of the world where shit happens daily

[jsmirman]

19. You could be right - partially, I am shaken by the news of a US Ambassador killed

that's heavy news for me.

I don't mean to jump to anything approaching conclusions - but I did want to lay some thoughts out in a comment on the situation.

I know the feeling the killings evokes in me, and I wonder how the nation will react.

[NightWatcher]

22. when more people watch Honey Boo Boo than can find Libya or Egypt on a map...

the public will not see or take any deeper implications from a violent incident across the globe.

This is not Carter's Delta Force tragedy. This is not a Marine barracks bombing. This is not the Iran Hostage tragedy. It's not October, this is no surprise...that crazy shit happens in a lawless Middle East.

[jsmirman]

28. It is an American Ambassador killed in the line of duty

I think people look up from Honey Boo Boo to take note of that.

[NightWatcher]

35. how many American People got outraged at the number of troops KIA?

Nearly every day a US soldier is killed in Afghanistan and for years they were killed in Iraq. It's a shame, but I think people are making way too big of a deal over it. He was in a dangerous place and knew the risks. I know people from the State Dept and it's known that many offices in/around war zones are dangerous and that at any time you could be killed or taken hostage.

I think too many are making a big deal

[jsmirman]

37. They should have a similar impact

but I don't think they do.

And there is the aspect that this man was the prime representative of our presence in that country.

I know that diplomats know the risks involved in their jobs, as I have been around many, many of them at a variety of times in my life, but we are not talking about what the reaction in the diplomatic community will be.

[CTyankee]

47. I felt the same way. Utter shock and then an awful feeling...

it is heartbreaking...

[get the red out]

26. Very true

Anyone who goes completely nuts wanting war over this wouldn't have voted for President Obama anyway. They would be like the guy I knew in school who posts pictures of GW Bush that say "miss me yet?".

[NotThisTime]

55. Not true, Romney will shove this down the Presidents throat for the next ten weeks

It doesn't matter if what Romney says is true, he just has to say it enough

[lunatica]

18. First we, the US need to find out if this was just a mob or a terrorist organization

I have every confidence in President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton to react with wisdom.

But I'm sure that if it was a terrorist organization their days are numbered.

[former-republican]

44. Exactly folks

This is not the time to go off half cocked on anything.

I just woke up , has the President made a statement yet?\\edit


Never mind just read in another thread he's making one this morning.

[mfcorey1]

25. Not so. The pile on is already backfiring on Rmoney and the GOP.

[nebenaube]

51. I think the point is that they piled on. n/t

[spanone]

32. yep. it will keep Obama in the white house.

[treestar]

34. Absolutely not.

This is exactly the kind of thing President Obama handles very well and that Rmoney would be making clear he would handle irresponsibly and that in-power Republicans would use as an excuse for another war. People are weary of unnecessary wars - not falling for that one again.

[quinnox]

36. no its not

I'm sick of the meme that our American blood is worth its weight in gold, and we have to do at least ten times the amount of destruction in return. Getting the war machines powered up every time an incident occurs is crazy.

[jsmirman]

39. "no its not" what?

your post is a bit lacking in clarity.

[quinnox]

42. its not something that will change the election or is a major event

that should be responded with military force. It is a minor incident, unfortunately these things happen every day in the middle east, violence is commonplace. The only difference is its Americans who are killed this time.

Of course its a tragedy for those who were killed, that goes without saying.

[Jennicut]

41. Are you kidding me? Even Erik Erikson said Romney needs to not speak about this right now.

Romney stepped in it, big time. More Americans trust President Obama then Romney on foreign policy. Times have changed and Dems are now seen as the adults in the foreign policy arena. Per my twitter feed and the news, Romney has come off as total idiot over his over the top statement.

[CTyankee]

49. If his campaign's blunders are any indication, we have seen what a Romney

Administration (perish the thought!) would look like. We'd all be on tranquilizers just to keep on going in such a nightmare of "governance."

[GeorgeGist]

43. Get serious.

[Blue_Tires]

50. The timing of the incident is curious, to say the least...

[ProSense]

52. Good grief! Stop propping up

despicable and desperate asshole Republicans and join everyone else in calling them out.

I mean, oooh, they did something despicable, this will help them?

Ugh!

[CanonRay]

54. Remember; this was a mob, not a country

as in the Iranian hostage situation. Our sovereignty is not actually threatened by another country.

[CanonRay]

56. I do not want Mr. Romney answering the phone at 3:00am

'Cause by 4 we might all be dead.

[maryellen99]

62. God help us if Mitt is elected nt

[jsmirman]

64. Well, I hadn't counted on Romney being Romney

this has been some kind of performance out of their campaign.

They are as bad at this as they are disgusting and without decency or any sense of decorum.